The death of Walking Street

[soistalker]

There are many reasons why walking street businesses have not been doing well in recent years. Tourist demographics have changed, but businesses have not reacted to the change. There are many more reasons why walking street is dying a slow death. It is definitely a lot less fun and exciting as it was 10~15 years ago. If walking street were to disappear, would that be such a bad thing? 

[lapd]

Or maybe you are just getting older.  You are also probably expecting everything to be exactly the same as it was 15 years ago.

[Spidey]

8 minutes ago, soistalker said:

businesses have not reacted to the change.

Businesses certainly have reacted to the change.

 

Customer numbers down, prices have risen exponentially.

 

Thai economics 101.

[ezzra]

When Pattaya goody two shoe mayor and others in power will stop 'Fixing Pattaya'

for all the wrong reasons and even worse results, maybe, just maybe walking street and other place that made Pattaya famous ad desierlby to tourists can finally  recover...

[lapd]

Pattaya has more tourists than it has ever had. Not sure where you are finding those numbers to fit your agenda.  Maybe different type of tourists but definitely more.

Edited August 15, 2018 by lapd

[newnative]

     No, it would not be such a bad thing, and Pattaya would survive nicely without it. I'd love to see all the illegal buildings on the beach side torn down, for a start, including that ugly tan city building so close to the road right at the entrance.

[KittenKong]

23 minutes ago, soistalker said:

It is definitely a lot less fun and exciting as it was 10~15 years ago.

Walking Street was never fun or exciting. Not 5 years ago, not 15 years ago, not 35 years ago, never.

 

It has always been tacky and boring. But I agree that it has got worse as now it's tacky and boring and full of Chinese and Indians.

 

[Peterw42]

OP, where does this perception that walking st businesses are not doing well come from ?. for any discussion on the demise of walking st, businesses not doing well, would involve knowing that they are not doing well. 

How could you possibly know the finances of all the walking st businesses ?

[Henricus]

Never come back as it was in 1979

[NanLaew]

4 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Walking Street was never fun or exciting. Not 5 years ago, not 15 years ago, not 35 years ago, never.

 

It has always been tacky and boring. But I agree that it has got worse as now it's tacky and boring and full of Chinese and Indians.

 

I take it you never got lucky upstairs at the Marine Bar disco then?

[Snow Leopard]

Its a world class site with no prostitution. What are you complaining about? Everything is hunky dory. 

[johng]

R.I.P "walking"

 

 

+  one from Soi Diamond

 

[DDBKK]

If I had a penny for every time I read a "times are a changing and I don't like it" woe is me thread on these forums I'd be a rich man by now. 

 

But having a doom and gloom double whammy is almost too much excitement (excrement?) for one day. 

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, lapd said:

Or maybe you are just getting older.  You are also probably expecting everything to be exactly the same as it was 15 years ago.

 

Yes, another "final nail in the coffin" comment. Those comments haven't changed much in the past 15 years whichever part of Thailand they mention. I doubt Nostradamus would feel challenged.

[thecyclist]

5 hours ago, lapd said:

Pattaya has more tourists than it has ever had. Not sure where you are finding those numbers to fit your agenda.  Maybe different type of tourists but definitely more.

Yes it has, but the demographics have changed radically. It used to be a farang domain, and now it's mainly Chinese and Russians, who rarely frequent bars. 

[Suradit69]

5 hours ago, KittenKong said:

It has always been tacky and boring.

Agree, but that's what attracted so many farang for decades. You may have noticed that those who love to bash Pattaya tend to be very familiar with Walking Street and seem to think that's the entirety of Pattaya.

 

It was probably designed to herd all the intellectually challenged into a relatively confined space. Sort of the equivalent of fly-paper or a roach motel.

[KittenKong]

1 hour ago, NanLaew said:

I take it you never got lucky upstairs at the Marine Bar disco then?

Never been in the place, upstairs or downstairs. So from my point of view I've been extremely lucky.

[jamie2009]

I had to walk through Walking Street to go for a Boat  Trip during the the day, in general it was filthy and scruffy, the whole area needs cleaning up including the road surfaces covered in oil and grease.

[Kerryd]

As has been discussed, many times already, yes the numbers of tourists have increased. In fact, the total numbers of arrivals is increasing every year despite the "doom and gloom" BS some people like to spout every time the bars are shut down for a day (or 2). It is estimated that Thailand will receive in excess of 39 million "arrivals" this year (a new record) and it is expected they will top 40 million next year.

 

However, some people, like me, have actually talked to business owners that have/had businesses on Walking Street (and other areas) and the story is the same. There are more people on the streets, but they aren't spending as much as the people that used to fill the streets 10, 15, 20 years ago.
 

One (Thai) guy owns a seafood restaurant. He used to have another restaurant/bar in North Pattaya but had to sell that. Had to sell his Harley as well. Still has the restaurant on Walking Street though.
 

Another (Thai) guy owns a "resort hotel". He says he gets lots of bookings, but the people staying there aren't spending any money in the restaurant/bar so he's basically just above breaking even. He sold his Harley and bought a cheaper one (not sure if he still has that one).

Another couple of (Thai) guys I know had a couple of beer bars and go-go bars on Walking Street (I think it was 7 businesses in total, 4 beer bars and 3 go-gos). One of the guys apparently was the original owner of the bar that is now the Tahitian Queen (he told me that was the first business he'd owned and he sold it to buy something else. The new owners named the bar the Tahitian Queen and it's been running ever since). He's been in business on Walking street for over 40 years now. 

They had to sell some of their businesses and let the leases go on the others as they weren't making enough money to cover the losses. At one time, all of them were making money. Now I think they have one beer bar and one go-go and one of them has also sold his Harley.

 

(The "luxury" items like Harleys are usually the first to go when times get hard.)

There are a number of other (Thai) guys who've also ended up closing down their businesses (one had a small gold shop and did custom jewellery, another had a bar and a motorcycle sales/service shop) and selling off their assets and it is the same story. The people that are here now are simply not spending as much as the people that used to make up the majority of the tourists.

 

So yes, there are more people but according to the actual business owners - they are not spending as much money.

 

(I have a (foreign) friend in Phuket that owns a small Hotel with a bar and used to have a dive business as well. They lost the dive business and now are looking at getting rid of the hotel as they are not making enough to pay the bills. They tell me that the story is the same in Phuket. Lots of people on the beaches and streets but not a lot of money being spent.)

All the great plans to "rejuvenate" Walking Street by turning it into basically one long shopping mall will go up in smoke if no one walking on that Street is spending any money ! Not to mention that, if I recall correctly, almost all of the property along Walking Street is (physically) owned by something like 7 families. They lease out the properties to people who try to make money by leasing them other to other people. (I asked my friend who's been there since the 70s why he didn't actually own some of the places he had been running for decades and he said that those 7 families keep a death grip on the properties and won't sell them. They are probably the only people that consistently make money from them !)

Besides, Walking Street may "die" eventually but all that means is you will have to go to a different area to have your fun. Like LK Metro, or Jomtien. Or Ban Chang.

(Especially if they upgrade the airport at U-Tapao and the highway, Ban Chang could become the new "Pattaya" - better go there now and start setting up some new bars in anticipation of the "big rush" !)
All those people with all those go-go bars are not likely to just say "Meh, it was fun while it lasted so let's just forget about it and do something else.". It is more likely that they will just relocated to a different area and keep on doing the same thing, perhaps where there is less "public scrutiny".

 

 

[jimn]

It all depends on ones perception and if you actually go into the main gogos to see how they are doing. The French ones are full of Koreans spending a fortune. The 2 main ones off WS on soi 15 are also very busy and yes with Farangs. Agreed some of the restaurants and rock style music bars are suffering but I wouldnt say its the "death of walking street". Its just your idea of how it was has changed. I miss it too but its not coming back. 

[chrisinth]

6 hours ago, soistalker said:

There are many reasons why walking street businesses have not been doing well in recent years. Tourist demographics have changed, but businesses have not reacted to the change. There are many more reasons why walking street is dying a slow death. It is definitely a lot less fun and exciting as it was 10~15 years ago. If walking street were to disappear, would that be such a bad thing? 

Walking Street is targeted towards specific punters, IMO there is little they (business owners/managers) can do to change their business models to accommodate bovine groups of tourists who don't spend money. Best thing to do is to stop them (the herds) accessing the strip, but that would be caught between a rock and a hard place as it is public access.

 

Walking Street has been dying for the last 30 years that I have known it, yet it is still there. Even if it was to close, you could bet your bottom dollar that somewhere else would open up to take it's place as it is too much of a cash cow to just let go.

 

One sure way to close it is to let the police & army perform there mass invasions like they did last weekend, nobody wants to either see or be caught up in that. I felt sorry for the proper tourists who are looking for a good time having saved their money for their once a year holiday to be faced by these idiots being seen to do. This is something that I haven't seen before in such numbers.

[Gandtee]

7 hours ago, lapd said:

Pattaya has more tourists than it has ever had. Not sure where you are finding those numbers to fit your agenda.  Maybe different type of tourists but definitely more.

Yes. Chinese tour groups who don't use the bars along Walking Street, but are herded to places designated by the tour organisers. 

[Thaidream]

The report by KerryD is very accurate and matches not only what I know but also matches the 'eye test'.  It's the same  for Soi Cowboy in Bangkok- you enter the Soi and it's packed with people- mostly Asian tourists- taking pics.  Go in the bars and hardly any customers.

 

What is destroying Walking Street is so very simple to see and it is the same 'virus' that will close Soi Cowboy and Nana Plaza in Bangkok:

 

A.   The land owners keep raising the rents and for some  bar owners there is not enough customers to make a profit.  Eventually the land owners will realize there is an upward limit  on rent increases and they will sell the land to 'developers' who will turn the place into something else that will make money.

 

B   The tourist demographics have change radically to Chinese; Asean and hardly any Westerners. It is the Westerners who spend, drink and carouse but the numbers are not there.  They now go to Cambodia;Vietnam and The Philippines.

 

C.  The 'service girls' are much different. Most come from agencies that recruit the 'talent' from up country and there is no allegiance to the Bat/Club and they could care less if there are any customers. They still get their contracted money each month.  They are older;  smarter and less friendly. It used to be that the bar owners recruited their own staff from up country directly from the owner's village so there was a family atmosphere in the bar.

 

D.    The ubiquitous cell phone with the camera has taken all the real fun out of the bar because no one wants to see their picture on all the social media sites 'drunk and disorderly ' doing things that  are considered  risque. In addition- the girls are not interested in the punters when all they have to do is send a message to someone else to get attention or even money.

 

They're also too busy looking at their picture library which includes all the punters that have barfined them for the last 30 years as well as last night's somtam dinner.

IMHO- the cell phone was invented to use- as a phone-  if I want a videographer- I will hire one  and if I want to search the internet -I will purchase a laptop.. Turn the 'freaking' phones off and the bars might get some real customers.

 

Walking Street's demise will have no bearing on anything-  some of the 'talent' will relocate to find the action; others will open up a second hand  clothing shop and still others go back to the buffalo. Last person out- close the lights!!!

[Wake Up]

More expensive than Bangkok and less fun. Bar fines outrageous so why go there unless you want to see Chinese tour flags. You can price yourself out of business especially when other parts of Pattaya are much cheaper.  Value and price matter even in Thailand.  

[gamini]

8 hours ago, lapd said:

Pattaya has more tourists than it has ever had. Not sure where you are finding those numbers to fit your agenda.  Maybe different type of tourists but definitely more.

The attraction of Pattaya its decadence. That's what tourists come to see

[The manic]

1 hour ago, Kerryd said:

As has been discussed, many times already, yes the numbers of tourists have increased. In fact, the total numbers of arrivals is increasing every year despite the "doom and gloom" BS some people like to spout every time the bars are shut down for a day (or 2). It is estimated that Thailand will receive in excess of 39 million "arrivals" this year (a new record) and it is expected they will top 40 million next year.

 

However, some people, like me, have actually talked to business owners that have/had businesses on Walking Street (and other areas) and the story is the same. There are more people on the streets, but they aren't spending as much as the people that used to fill the streets 10, 15, 20 years ago.
 

One (Thai) guy owns a seafood restaurant. He used to have another restaurant/bar in North Pattaya but had to sell that. Had to sell his Harley as well. Still has the restaurant on Walking Street though.
 

Another (Thai) guy owns a "resort hotel". He says he gets lots of bookings, but the people staying there aren't spending any money in the restaurant/bar so he's basically just above breaking even. He sold his Harley and bought a cheaper one (not sure if he still has that one).

Another couple of (Thai) guys I know had a couple of beer bars and go-go bars on Walking Street (I think it was 7 businesses in total, 4 beer bars and 3 go-gos). One of the guys apparently was the original owner of the bar that is now the Tahitian Queen (he told me that was the first business he'd owned and he sold it to buy something else. The new owners named the bar the Tahitian Queen and it's been running ever since). He's been in business on Walking street for over 40 years now. 

They had to sell some of their businesses and let the leases go on the others as they weren't making enough money to cover the losses. At one time, all of them were making money. Now I think they have one beer bar and one go-go and one of them has also sold his Harley.

 

(The "luxury" items like Harleys are usually the first to go when times get hard.)

There are a number of other (Thai) guys who've also ended up closing down their businesses (one had a small gold shop and did custom jewellery, another had a bar and a motorcycle sales/service shop) and selling off their assets and it is the same story. The people that are here now are simply not spending as much as the people that used to make up the majority of the tourists.

 

So yes, there are more people but according to the actual business owners - they are not spending as much money.

 

(I have a (foreign) friend in Phuket that owns a small Hotel with a bar and used to have a dive business as well. They lost the dive business and now are looking at getting rid of the hotel as they are not making enough to pay the bills. They tell me that the story is the same in Phuket. Lots of people on the beaches and streets but not a lot of money being spent.)

All the great plans to "rejuvenate" Walking Street by turning it into basically one long shopping mall will go up in smoke if no one walking on that Street is spending any money ! Not to mention that, if I recall correctly, almost all of the property along Walking Street is (physically) owned by something like 7 families. They lease out the properties to people who try to make money by leasing them other to other people. (I asked my friend who's been there since the 70s why he didn't actually own some of the places he had been running for decades and he said that those 7 families keep a death grip on the properties and won't sell them. They are probably the only people that consistently make money from them !)

Besides, Walking Street may "die" eventually but all that means is you will have to go to a different area to have your fun. Like LK Metro, or Jomtien. Or Ban Chang.

(Especially if they upgrade the airport at U-Tapao and the highway, Ban Chang could become the new "Pattaya" - better go there now and start setting up some new bars in anticipation of the "big rush" !)
All those people with all those go-go bars are not likely to just say "Meh, it was fun while it lasted so let's just forget about it and do something else.". It is more likely that they will just relocated to a different area and keep on doing the same thing, perhaps where there is less "public scrutiny".

 

 

Bar fines are too high. Some go go bars are asking over 1500 baht, some even 5000! The ST and LT rates have gone up and the quality of the girls and their service has gone down. However, some bars and go go bars are getting it right and they are always busy. The modern music being played is dreadful and low intelligence.  "Put  your f***ing hands up" is the dreadful refrain heard throughout Pattaya. Bars that play decent music are always busy. Go Go bars that give good service are also busy. The bars and go go bars that have no customers are badly run and don't understand the financial demographics or their potential customer base.

[timendres]

3 hours ago, Henricus said:

Never come back as it was in 1979

  [photo of 1979 walking street]

Wow! Thank you for sharing that!

[thailand49]

Need to be more specific as to why?

[wwest5829]

8 hours ago, KittenKong said:

Walking Street was never fun or exciting. Not 5 years ago, not 15 years ago, not 35 years ago, never.

 

It has always been tacky and boring. But I agree that it has got worse as now it's tacky and boring and full of Chinese and Indians.

 

Allowing that some of us disagree. Loved it in 2009 and 2010 on my first visits to be introduced to Thailand. Revisited in 2011 after retiring here permanently. Yes, there were many reasons for retiring here but my first introductions were very positive....

[DJ54]

Uhhh their farangs to..... but I hear what you’re saying. Reminds me of a

co worker long ago on a sales trip asking did I see that colored guy? I said what color are you? .....he never made that incorrect statement again, call um like you see um