Elon Musk 'to be sued in Thailand, London and US’ by cave diver he called 'paedo' in baseless remark

[frostycarl]

5 minutes ago, Internatltraveler said:

Well, here we go again with stupidity at its elevated highest. First of all, the laws of libel, slander and defamation of character in civilized countries, that allow freedom of speech have a very high bar to reach. In the USA there must be proof of harm being done in the form of lost income or the like in order to bring the case to a court. This caver, maybe is a nice guy, maybe not. We don't know much about him other than here say. I don't believe there is not going to be a case based in the USA regardless of his big mouth. I do not know what the legal standard in Britain is, but I suspect with freedom of speech aplenty there also a case is not going to go very far. This Vern character of this soap show does not have a lot of money or he does not have much smarts if he thinks he is going to get one dime from Musk anywhere in the world. Vern, just stop your nonsense. No one even cares about you in the first place! Go on and live your life. You are just one more old man chasing his retirement dream living in this country. Get over it!!!! And those of you who think being called a name did not have mothers like mine, who said something about sticks and stones that break your bones!

 

Even in Thailand, what rights do foreigners have anyway? We are not citizens of the country and it is possible that something like this is beyond the jurisdictional authority of the courts here to prosecute. Vern is a windbag and when there is this much smoke, there often is some fire also. An honorable person does not have to defend their honor in the first place. Honor stands unto itself. Musk may have done a background check on Vern, who knows, and found some skeletons in the closet somewhere. After all, Musk is one of the brightest men in the world, it is said, so I don't think anyone out here should take him as a stupid person.

 

I agree with others who are getting tired of Vern tooting his own horn or even his horn being tooted by the media. The cave trauma was a total effort of many people including a Thai Seal who lost his life attempting to help out. We have completely forgotten the call to duty and the loss of life that occurred here.

 

But I think Mr. Vern is going to be in for a huge cultural shock, which was probably helped by an ambulance chasing attorney who is simply out for media attention and as much money as he can get from a hopeless case.

 

As in everything else, the court of public opinion, here on this site is filled with wanna be attorneys who are for the most part ignorant of the laws and simply show their ignorance of reality. Well the court of public opinion may work here in this country but in more law abiding countries, that same public arena is simply like watching the fixed events of professional wrestling...all show with nothing real about it. The interesting thing to me is to read how so many from such a variety of cultures regard these events and then we can begin to realize what the real problems in our affiliated cultures are if we are examples of our home cultures...geeeeze no wonder the world is in a mess right now! So much venom being spewed by so many varieties of snakes!!

Nailed it!

[Internatltraveler]

The key factor Speedhump is "damaging" and as you said not true. What is damaging about what Musk said about Vern...How was Vern damaged. How did it affect him in any way other than maybe hurt his tender feelings? It brought him into media attention which may have increased his popularity and maybe even income...so no damages there. We do not know if it is true or not. That is to be proven in a court of law if it ever gets there. But that last standard does not seem to exist here in Thailand. Since we have read about suits brought against someone who simply reports a restaurant has bad food or bad service on some of the media. Or worse yet, if anyone says anything derogatory about the royalty or government officials here regardless if true or not and regardless if there were actual damages.

 

In countries that adhere to the rule of law, the game is played differently rather than the arcane and out of date laws of other countries we are familiar with, that live by "saving face" rather than telling the truth.

[ChiangMaiLightning2143]

Brilliant legal move. Defamation carries a prison sentence here....and the possibility of an international arrest warrant, although deportation will be an issue. He could have sued in America for piles of cash, or Britain for reputation.

Doubt he has standing to sue in a US state, such as California the judge would throw the case out as the plaintiff is not resident there. The bar is also very high in Defamation cases he has to show he suffered actual professional or monetary damages. Random tweets and utterings not so much..

[retsdon]

You would have to think that Unsworth's lawyers - especially if they're working on a no win no fee basis - will have warned him in no uncertain terms that any skeleton in the closet will almost certainly be found out and he'll finish up a ruined man (and they won't get their fees either). And that's why, if old Vern really is going ahead with this, it would appear that Musk has had a Roseanne Barr moment and it's about to come back and bite him. 

 

On a side note, I can't understand why anyone bothers to post on Twitter - no good ever seems to come of it.

[JLCrab]

48 minutes ago, Horace said:

I also don't think any judge or jury will be sympathetic to Musk when he makes these sorts of claims.

Well I guess that sure settles that.

[CanuckThai]

18 hours ago, nemo38 said:

All this drama shows the value of not making yourself a target for short tempered and grumpy people. Best to duck out of trouble at the earliest opportunity.

Putting  oneself on a pedestal, opens the door for anyone and everyone to kick it out from under you.   

If that pedestal is attributed to a public attack on a technology pillar, the engineering team and company behind him, best make sure you're 5 point harness is securely fastened, the airbags are functional and your shit is sorted. 

 

One may survive, but collateral damage will likely be significant.  

 

If Vern would have played it cool with a reasonable statement about the subs, (eg: They had an amazing engineering response time, not sure who decided to go with plan A).  End of story...Vern is still the hero (in his mind)

Edited September 7, 2018 by CanuckThai

[Yann55]

22 hours ago, keith101 said:

And why would Musk even come to Thailand .

 

To recover his cute little submarine ?

 

 

Edited September 7, 2018 by Yann55

[retsdon]

11 minutes ago, Internatltraveler said:

The key factor Speedhump is "damaging" and as you said not true. What is damaging about what Musk said about Vern...How was Vern damaged.

From the UK Defamation Act 1913  "A statement is not defamatory unless its publication has caused or is likely to cause serious harm to the reputation of the claimant".

Well, unequivocally labelling someone as a child rapist would seem to tick all the boxes. Just look at all the 'no smoke without fire' comments on these threads for a start.....

[frostycarl]

1 hour ago, transam said:

Well hello, nice to meet you...

So if I called you a kiddie fiddler on the Net you would be OK with it..?

So its proven that when Elon said Vern was a pedo he was referring to pedophile and not maybe a pedometer or a pedogenic or a pedocalic or a pedograph or a pedomancy or finally a pedogogic!!!! Maybe everyone else thought that cause Vern`s wife is almost 23 years his junior that he was referring to a pedophile.

 

When Vern said that Elon can stick that submarine where it hurts - where exactly was he referring? 

Edited September 7, 2018 by frostycarl

[Seadog48]

36 minutes ago, Internatltraveler said:

The key factor Speedhump is "damaging" and as you said not true. What is damaging about what Musk said about Vern...How was Vern damaged. How did it affect him in any way other than maybe hurt his tender feelings? It brought him into media attention which may have increased his popularity and maybe even income...so no damages there.

Not damaging?  How about the book Vern was going to publish with the help of a ghost writer about the cave rescue?  Haven't heard about that?  His lawyers will discuss that during the lawsuit.  Count on it.  And for the folks who say calling someone a pedophile is not a crime: you are correct.  However, it is a tort and the name caller can be sued in civil court.  Gentle reader, if a rich powerful man called you a pedophile and it was not true, would you just take it or fight back?

Edited September 7, 2018 by Seadog48

[transam]

4 minutes ago, frostycarl said:

So its proven that when Elon said Vern was a pedo he was referring to pedophile and not maybe a pedometer or a pedogenic or a pedocalic or a pedograph or a pedomancy or finally a pedogogic!!!! Maybe everyone else thought that cause Vern`s wife is almost 23 years his junior that he was referring to a pedophile.

 

When Vern said that Elon can stick that submarine where it hurts - where exactly was he referring? 

I think you will have to do better than that chum, if Musky was referring to any of your pedo  assumptions he would have pointed that fact out earlier on...

 

My ex UK wife was 17 years younger than me and we were married in a Christian Church, my Thai wife is 20 years younger than me....Now do YOU think I am a pedo...?

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, frostycarl said:

So its proven that when Elon said Vern was a pedo he was referring to pedophile and not maybe a pedometer or a pedogenic or a pedocalic or a pedograph or a pedomancy or finally a pedogogic!!!! Maybe everyone else thought that cause Vern`s wife is almost 23 years his junior that he was referring to a pedophile.

Yes, its been conformed that when Musk called Vern a "pedo" , he did mean *pedophile* and no one would think that having a 40 year old girlfriend can be considered to be a pedophile .

[Horace]

32 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

1 hour ago, Horace said:

I also don't think any judge or jury will be sympathetic to Musk when he makes these sorts of claims.

Well I guess that sure settles that.

 

I am not claiming it does.   More than that is required and your point about the high standard that has to be met in a defamation case in the is valid, but I also think Musk's outrageous behavior may have put Vernon's claim over that standard.  And I can see Musk coming out and making some more outrageous claims without having conducted any research.  

 

Vernon's lawyer in the US is good and well known.  He's not doing this for free.  He's doing this on a contingency fee basis.  He's looked at the facts and he thinks he has a good shot at getting some money out of Musk.  My hunch is that his hunch is right.

[Internatltraveler]

It depends on the jurisdiction on what the bar is for the tort claim. Here in Thailand it is not the same as many of the countries where we are all from. Yes, in the USA anyone can bring a tort claim in civil court, but that does not mean it will bring about a decision that brings money or anything else into the pocket of the claimant. In fact it could be thrown out of court for insufficient proof of damages. The great majority of tort claims in the USA result in much smaller to no settlements than you might guess. And then again we have residency requirements within the jurisdictional lines to consider. Certainly, Vern has no standing in the USA so I am not sure how his attorneys would bring a claim that would stand....and those of you who think it is a slam dunk are just being naive.

Most of you can remember OJ Simpson and his final court trial for criminal charges that found him not guilty, while the civil charges awarded the complainants a nice reward.

 

I know nothing about the legal firm that is taking Vern's case and how good they are or if they are just another ambulance chasing group....that makes a huge difference also. But getting past the jurisdiction issues are the first hurdle...two different countries of citizenship and a third country that neither are citizens (Thailand)...someone would have to get an opinion from a good tort attorney here in Thailand about these issues...interesting to find out what they might say. But then again here in Thailand is may go down as a criminal action it seems, so even more issues may exist.

[frostycarl]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

I think you will have to do better than that chum, if Musky was referring to any of your pedo  assumptions he would have pointed that fact out earlier on...

 

My ex UK wife was 17 years younger than me and we were married in a Christian Church, my Thai wife is 20 years younger than me....Now do YOU think I am a pedo...?

Ahhhh ok - all making sense now! 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, frostycarl said:

Ahhhh ok - all making sense now! 

Well then, there is hope for you yet.....

[gerritkaew]

How can someone so smart be so stopit.  ( Musk )

Yes he will be paying some and i wish i be Vernon at this time.

I think we all wane be in Vernon's shoes!!  

Well done!! 

[Horace]

3 minutes ago, Internatltraveler said:

I know nothing about the legal firm that is taking Vern's case and how good they are or if they are just another ambulance chasing group....that makes a huge difference also.

  

Vernon's lawyer is good.  His lawyer takes cases to trial and wins.  Many so-called "litigators:" are scared to death of actually trying a case.  Vernon's lawyer clearly is not.  From a wiki search:

 

Lucian Lincoln "Lin" Wood Jr. (born October 19, 1952 in Raleigh, North Carolina) is a high-profile American attorney based in Atlanta, Georgia. He represented Richard Jewell,^[1][2][3][4]the security guard falsely accused in the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in Atlanta in 1996. Wood's representation of Richard Jewell propelled Wood from a personal injury lawyer to be known as one of the top libel, defamation and First Amendment lawyers in the U. S. earning him the title of "Attorney for the Damned".

 

I have also met the guy.  We're not friends by any means, but he's tough as nails and relentless.  I would not want this guy handling a case against me.  Does that guarantee Vernon a win.  No.  Is this cause for concern on the part of Musk and his investors. Yes.

 

[snowgard]

1 hour ago, Internatltraveler said:

Well, here we go again with stupidity at its elevated highest. First of all, the laws of libel, slander and defamation of character in civilized countries, that allow freedom of speech have a very high bar to reach. In the USA there must be proof of harm being done in the form of lost income or the like in order to bring the case to a court. This caver, maybe is a nice guy, maybe not. We don't know much about him other than here say. I don't believe there is not going to be a case based in the USA regardless of his big mouth. I do not know what the legal standard in Britain is, but I suspect with freedom of speech aplenty there also a case is not going to go very far. This Vern character of this soap show does not have a lot of money or he does not have much smarts if he thinks he is going to get one dime from Musk anywhere in the world. Vern, just stop your nonsense. No one even cares about you in the first place! Go on and live your life. You are just one more old man chasing his retirement dream living in this country. Get over it!!!! And those of you who think being called a name did not have mothers like mine, who said something about sticks and stones that break your bones!

 

Even in Thailand, what rights do foreigners have anyway? We are not citizens of the country and it is possible that something like this is beyond the jurisdictional authority of the courts here to prosecute. Vern is a windbag and when there is this much smoke, there often is some fire also. An honorable person does not have to defend their honor in the first place. Honor stands unto itself. Musk may have done a background check on Vern, who knows, and found some skeletons in the closet somewhere. After all, Musk is one of the brightest men in the world, it is said, so I don't think anyone out here should take him as a stupid person.

 

I agree with others who are getting tired of Vern tooting his own horn or even his horn being tooted by the media. The cave trauma was a total effort of many people including a Thai Seal who lost his life attempting to help out. We have completely forgotten the call to duty and the loss of life that occurred here.

 

But I think Mr. Vern is going to be in for a huge cultural shock, which was probably helped by an ambulance chasing attorney who is simply out for media attention and as much money as he can get from a hopeless case.

 

As in everything else, the court of public opinion, here on this site is filled with wanna be attorneys who are for the most part ignorant of the laws and simply show their ignorance of reality. Well the court of public opinion may work here in this country but in more law abiding countries, that same public arena is simply like watching the fixed events of professional wrestling...all show with nothing real about it. The interesting thing to me is to read how so many from such a variety of cultures regard these events and then we can begin to realize what the real problems in our affiliated cultures are if we are examples of our home cultures...geeeeze no wonder the world is in a mess right now! So much venom being spewed by so many varieties of snakes!!

How much Musk pay you? ???

Insulting other people has absolut nothing to do with "Freedom of Speech". I think that a lot of people here have to learn the different. The most countries I lived before not tolerate online bullying, insults and false statement and the person who done it have to show it is true.

Edited September 7, 2018 by snowgard

[Cranky]

22 hours ago, GarryP said:

Working on a contingency basis probably. So no need to dole out any money. 

Ambulance chasers will be queuing up, wish he called me a paedo

[connda]

23 hours ago, webfact said:

Elon Musk 'to be sued in Thailand, London and US’ by cave diver he called 'paedo' in baseless remark

Start sending out those Interpol Blue and Red notices.  We know how the 'wanted' rich and elite are found and extradited Asap to Thailand every time one is issued.  

"Hummm, has the statue of limitations expired yet?" <looks at Richard Mille watch, shrugs> 

[JLCrab]

12 minutes ago, Horace said:

 <snip>

I have also met the guy.  We're not friends by any means, but he's tough as nails and relentless.  I would not want this guy handling a case against me.  Does that guarantee Vernon a win.  No.  Is this cause for concern on the part of Musk and his investors. Yes.

 

I know who is Lin Wood. He says that he will be filing a civil defamation claim in a Los Angeles federal court if the two parties cannot "avoid litigation" as per his letter to Musk.. Musk's attorneys will then have a chance to argue why the claim should be dismissed. Stay tuned.

Edited September 7, 2018 by JLCrab

[Just Weird]

22 hours ago, colinneil said:

Vern Unsworth started this nonsense, now he is going overboard suing Musk in 3 countries.

You need to be very careful maybe it will come back and bite you in the backside.

They were both wrong, both made stupid remarks, and why is Vern buggering up his life with this nonsense, live and let live, move on enjoy whats left of your life.

Why?  Because he has been accused of being a paedophile!  More than once.  Imagine the remarks from Thaivisa's finest alone if he did not refute the allegations!  Jesus...

 

Why will taking legal action bugger up his life any more than carrying the apparently unjustified tag of "paedo"? 

[Artisi]

1 hour ago, Internatltraveler said:

Well, here we go again with stupidity at its elevated highest. First of all, the laws of libel, slander and defamation of character in civilized countries, that allow freedom of speech have a very high bar to reach. In the USA there must be proof of harm being done in the form of lost income or the like in order to bring the case to a court. This caver, maybe is a nice guy, maybe not. We don't know much about him other than here say. I don't believe there is not going to be a case based in the USA regardless of his big mouth. I do not know what the legal standard in Britain is, but I suspect with freedom of speech aplenty there also a case is not going to go very far. This Vern character of this soap show does not have a lot of money or he does not have much smarts if he thinks he is going to get one dime from Musk anywhere in the world. Vern, just stop your nonsense. No one even cares about you in the first place! Go on and live your life. You are just one more old man chasing his retirement dream living in this country. Get over it!!!! And those of you who think being called a name did not have mothers like mine, who said something about sticks and stones that break your bones!

 

Even in Thailand, what rights do foreigners have anyway? We are not citizens of the country and it is possible that something like this is beyond the jurisdictional authority of the courts here to prosecute. Vern is a windbag and when there is this much smoke, there often is some fire also. An honorable person does not have to defend their honor in the first place. Honor stands unto itself. Musk may have done a background check on Vern, who knows, and found some skeletons in the closet somewhere. After all, Musk is one of the brightest men in the world, it is said, so I don't think anyone out here should take him as a stupid person.

 

I agree with others who are getting tired of Vern tooting his own horn or even his horn being tooted by the media. The cave trauma was a total effort of many people including a Thai Seal who lost his life attempting to help out. We have completely forgotten the call to duty and the loss of life that occurred here.

 

But I think Mr. Vern is going to be in for a huge cultural shock, which was probably helped by an ambulance chasing attorney who is simply out for media attention and as much money as he can get from a hopeless case.

 

As in everything else, the court of public opinion, here on this site is filled with wanna be attorneys who are for the most part ignorant of the laws and simply show their ignorance of reality. Well the court of public opinion may work here in this country but in more law abiding countries, that same public arena is simply like watching the fixed events of professional wrestling...all show with nothing real about it. The interesting thing to me is to read how so many from such a variety of cultures regard these events and then we can begin to realize what the real problems in our affiliated cultures are if we are examples of our home cultures...geeeeze no wonder the world is in a mess right now! So much venom being spewed by so many varieties of snakes!!

The points on which you are so wrong just turns your whole post into an inaccurate rant. 

[ThaiPauly]

45 minutes ago, Internatltraveler said:

It depends on the jurisdiction on what the bar is for the tort claim. Here in Thailand it is not the same as many of the countries where we are all from. Yes, in the USA anyone can bring a tort claim in civil court, but that does not mean it will bring about a decision that brings money or anything else into the pocket of the claimant. In fact it could be thrown out of court for insufficient proof of damages. The great majority of tort claims in the USA result in much smaller to no settlements than you might guess. And then again we have residency requirements within the jurisdictional lines to consider. Certainly, Vern has no standing in the USA so I am not sure how his attorneys would bring a claim that would stand....and those of you who think it is a slam dunk are just being naive.

Most of you can remember OJ Simpson and his final court trial for criminal charges that found him not guilty, while the civil charges awarded the complainants a nice reward.

 

I know nothing about the legal firm that is taking Vern's case and how good they are or if they are just another ambulance chasing group....that makes a huge difference also. But getting past the jurisdiction issues are the first hurdle...two different countries of citizenship and a third country that neither are citizens (Thailand)...someone would have to get an opinion from a good tort attorney here in Thailand about these issues...interesting to find out what they might say. But then again here in Thailand is may go down as a criminal action it seems, so even more issues may exist.

This would make a great John Grisham novel. it has everything and we don't even know the outcome!!

[Artisi]

What is worth thinking about is, has Unsworth ever been arrested, charged, and found guilty of paedophilia, to my knowledge no, so therefore Musk's verbal and written comments must be of his own making and therefore is slander and  defamation.   Dress-up the excuses, reasons, or whatever you wish to label it, nothing changes the fact Musk is WRONG. 

[Miss Pickle]

If I was him I would ignore it.I recon that Musk has done a bit digging on him to come out with these remarks.Lets be honest he has been going to Pattaya for years and I am sure he has been with plenty young girls not saying they would be under age but sure would be young enough to be his grandchild. I have been going to Thailand for years the flights are full of single older men on the hunt for love ❤️ and are willing to pay a high price for it. He will open a can of worms for sure. 

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, Artisi said:

What is worth thinking about is, has Unsworth ever been arrested, charged, and found guilty of paedophilia, to my knowledge no, so therefore Musk's verbal and written comments must be of his own making and therefore is slander and  defamation.   Dress-up the excuses, reasons, or whatever you wish to label it, nothing changes the fact Musk is WRONG. 

And also , no one has come forward to back Musks claims up .

If there were any victims, you would have thought that they would have contacted Musk and offered to back him up

[sanemax]

3 minutes ago, Miss Pickle said:

If I was him I would ignore it.I recon that Musk has done a bit digging on him to come out with these remarks.Lets be honest he has been going to Pattaya for years and I am sure he has been with plenty young girls not saying they would be under age but sure would be young enough to be his grandchild. I have been going to Thailand for years the flights are full of single older men on the hunt for love ❤️ and are willing to pay a high price for it. He will open a can of worms for sure. 

Vern has stated that hes never been to Pattaya though and even IF Vern has cavorted with legal age prostitutes , that is completely besides the point of the allegation and irrelevant

[ttrd]

23 hours ago, GarryP said:

He came before didn't he. And there is already talk about developing charging stations for electric cars in Thailand. Not very good PR for a company trying to enter new markets. 

Then he may continue his business in Thailand as he started  - Pedo Charging, Pedo Service, Pedo Showroom and so on....