It's funny how few people posting here seem to even know what climate change is.  If someone has avoided learning the difference between natural cycles in climate versus what we're experiencing now there isn't much point in trying to fill them in.  The idea that Canada or Northern Russia are going to be comfortable, stable climate places to live in the coming decades is equally absurd.  All the same I'll try to help out with explaining two things some people seem to be missing.

 

In the past climate and greenhouse gas levels were tightly linked (see graph).  20 years ago it was just speculation about how the spike in carbon dioxide going on was really going to follow that, but due to being watched closely by climate scientists now we know (for the most part).  The Earth will get hotter at an unprecedented rate this century, not matching anything experienced before in history, with the possible exception of events like the asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs, which related to a different form of change.

 

People miss that the last 10,000 years were an anomaly, the only period of stable climate in the past half million years.  That party is over.  Growing the same crops in the same location year to year won't be possible as it has been for the past 10,000 years.  The 2 degrees of warming in this century isn't necessarily the main problem, or the sea level rise, or the bad storms, or floods and droughts, but along with agriculture becoming much less feasible and what can't be predicted yet it all adds up.  This planet won't continue to support 7 billion people in the same way it is now. 

 

A bitter, incoherent alcoholic sitting on a barstool can say "let most people die then" but for the rest of humanity it's not that simple.

 

 

2 hours ago, Catoni said:

If you are trying to compare the  little 0.85 degree C increase in temperature between 1880 - 2012 (I.P.C.C. numbers) following the approx 550 years of the “Little Ice Age”, and 405 ppm atmospheric CO2 to things like the Siberian Traps Eruptions and Permian-Triassic Extinction Event ..... wow ! !

     You’ve gotta lay off those Hollywood disaster movies and ground yourself in reality and common sense. 

   Leonardo DiCaprio is an actor and has an interest in a leftist politico/economic agenda. 

     Don’t fall for the crap. 

 

No, it was you who was trying to pretend that those events did not cause mass extinctions in the oceans, remember? 

2 hours ago, kannot said:

and without which we may not even have existed, I thank  those catastrophes

 

What has that got to do with the future?

11 minutes ago, honu said:

Growing the same crops in the same location year to year won't be possible as it has been for the past 10,000 years.

Ok, I'll promise to tell my MIL to move from rice to corn in the next 5000 years.

 

10k is more than enough for humans to adapt. 10 should be suffice. 

Double
 

I always knew my decision not to have children had some rational basis. Before now I always put it down to a personal foible - why bring children into this world when you haven't sorted out a good reason for your own existence. I assumed other guys had resolved this question, and their children were an act of will, and not an accident or social conditioning, but to bring them into a world of suffering ... ?

It's funny how few people posting here seem to even know what climate change is.  If someone has avoided learning the difference between natural cycles in climate versus what we're experiencing now there isn't much point in trying to fill them in.  The idea that Canada or Northern Russia are going to be comfortable, stable climate places to live in the coming decades is equally absurd.  All the same I'll try to help out with explaining two things some people seem to be missing.
 
In the past climate and greenhouse gas levels were tightly linked (see graph).  20 years ago it was just speculation about how the spike in carbon dioxide going on was really going to follow that, but due to being watched closely by climate scientists now we know (for the most part).  The Earth will get hotter at an unprecedented rate this century, not matching anything experienced before in history, with the possible exception of events like the asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs, which related to a different form of change.
 
People miss that the last 10,000 years were an anomaly, the only period of stable climate in the past half million years.  That party is over.  Growing the same crops in the same location year to year won't be possible as it has been for the past 10,000 years.  The 2 degrees of warming in this century isn't necessarily the main problem, or the sea level rise, or the bad storms, or floods and droughts, but along with agriculture becoming much less feasible and what can't be predicted yet it all adds up.  This planet won't continue to support 7 billion people in the same way it is now. 
 
A bitter, incoherent alcoholic sitting on a barstool can say "let most people die then" but for the rest of humanity it's not that simple.
 
 

So what you are saying is that climate change is actually driving CO2 levels, correct?

And if that is so, should we be more concerned about suffocating than an increase in temperature?

52 minutes ago, Catoni said:

Doesn’t matter. So what if my list of scientists is shorter?

     Wrong is wrong even if the whole world would agree to it. 

       It only takes one scientist to be correct. 

    Pretty well all the world’s scientists claimed Professor Alfred Wegener was nuts. They laughed him out of the lecture halls and did their best to stop him from speaking and getting published. 

      Sadly, he did not live to see vindication. 

Finally, in the 1960’s, he was proven to have been right all along, even though almost the whole world had laughed at him. 

   Professor Wegener had been right all along. 

    Continental Drift/Plate Tectonics is now accepted as fact in the scientific world and in schools. 

 

Blah blah blah, you'd stake the future of mankind and the future of the planet on one scientist being right and several thousand others being wrong, you should rebadge yourself as The Contrarian!

...one scientist being right and several thousand others being wrong...

You mean like Galileo?

26 minutes ago, mogandave said:

So what you are saying is that climate change is actually driving CO2 levels, correct?

And if that is so, should we be more concerned about suffocating than an increase in temperature?

 

CO2 is good for plants, get a nice garden.

Maybe if the world floods, I can get reincarnated as an evolved aquatic flipper creature. Then I won't have to take baths anymore and worry about how I smell on the SkyTrain

21 minutes ago, mogandave said:

 

You mean like Galileo?

 

Not quite, I think the Galileo's subject matter was far less serious or important in nature than global warming and the volume of peers studying his subject far fewer. Anyway, what is this, The Inquisition. 

Not quite, I think the Galileo's subject matter was far less serious or important in nature than global warming and the volume of peers studying his subject far fewer. Anyway, what is this, The Inquisition. 

What’s more important than a good California wine?

8 hours ago, Catoni said:

   Uhm... what's going to "kill" the oceans ? ? 

That was part of my point. They say rising sea temps cause coral bleaching and dying. Which sucks, and I can't think of anyone except maybe someone like Trump who would approve. But if increasing ocean temps are causing corals to die off, doesn't that mean coral habitat is opening up somewhere else? It seems to me it does. 

 

Point in a nutshell: nobody seems to consider warming, or climate change, could actually affect positive changes. The effects can't possibly ALL be negative, which is how things are reported. And when you offset the bad with the good, who knows, maybe it is closer to a wash than we all know. 

7 minutes ago, utalkin2me said:

except maybe someone like Trump

You guys really cant give it a rest can you. Its so childish.

5 hours ago, nausea said:

but to bring them into a world of suffering ... ?

My kids seem happy enough, no visible suffering in any of the six so far.

Although most of them would like the weather to be a bit warmer.

6 hours ago, DrTuner said:

CO2 is good for plants, get a nice garden.

 

3 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

That was part of my point. They say rising sea temps cause coral bleaching and dying. Which sucks, and I can't think of anyone except maybe someone like Trump who would approve. But if increasing ocean temps are causing corals to die off, doesn't that mean coral habitat is opening up somewhere else? It seems to me it does. 

 

Point in a nutshell: nobody seems to consider warming, or climate change, could actually affect positive changes. The effects can't possibly ALL be negative, which is how things are reported. And when you offset the bad with the good, who knows, maybe it is closer to a wash than we all know. 

 

In the whole history of mankind co2 levels and temperatures always changed over thousands of years, they both changed slowly together, but recently we have seen a rapid increase in co2 and levels are currently off the scale, humans have never seen a time with the levels of co2 we have now.  Normally average temperatures correlate with co2 levels, they go up and down together, however at the moment they do not, co2 has been increasing rapidly while temperatures have been increasing slowly, the concern is that temperatures will continue to increase until they do again correlate with the co2 level, the fear is that it will happen at an increasing rate, if the temperature were to correlate to the current co2 level there would be hundreds of feet sea level rises, there would be a mass extinction, however as you rightly point out there will also be some small benefits brought along the way.

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

My kids seem happy enough, no visible suffering in any of the six so far.

Although most of them would like the weather to be a bit warmer.

 

A real rise in temperature would not make cooler places a bit warmer, it will their make weather more extreme in general; stronger winds, heavier rain, thicker fog, longer droughts, bigger waves, deeper floods, etc.

18 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

 

In the whole history of mankind co2 levels and temperatures always changed over thousands of years, they both changed slowly together, but recently we have seen a rapid increase in co2 and levels are currently off the scale, humans have never seen a time with the levels of co2 we have now.  Normally average temperatures correlate with co2 levels, they go up and down together, however at the moment they do not, co2 has been increasing rapidly while temperatures have been increasing slowly, the concern is that temperatures will continue to increase until they do again correlate with the co2 level, the fear is that it will happen at an increasing rate, if the temperature were to correlate to the current co2 level there would be hundreds of feet sea level rises, there would be a mass extinction, however as you rightly point out there will also be some small benefits brought along the way.

That is Lex Luther's plans for the desert, but with no A-bomb needed. 

9 hours ago, honu said:

It's funny how few people posting here seem to even know what climate change is.  If someone has avoided learning the difference between natural cycles in climate versus what we're experiencing now there isn't much point in trying to fill them in.  The idea that Canada or Northern Russia are going to be comfortable, stable climate places to live in the coming decades is equally absurd.  All the same I'll try to help out with explaining two things some people seem to be missing.

 

In the past climate and greenhouse gas levels were tightly linked (see graph).  20 years ago it was just speculation about how the spike in carbon dioxide going on was really going to follow that, but due to being watched closely by climate scientists now we know (for the most part).  The Earth will get hotter at an unprecedented rate this century, not matching anything experienced before in history, with the possible exception of events like the asteroid impact that killed the dinosaurs, which related to a different form of change.

 

People miss that the last 10,000 years were an anomaly, the only period of stable climate in the past half million years.  That party is over.  Growing the same crops in the same location year to year won't be possible as it has been for the past 10,000 years.  The 2 degrees of warming in this century isn't necessarily the main problem, or the sea level rise, or the bad storms, or floods and droughts, but along with agriculture becoming much less feasible and what can't be predicted yet it all adds up.  This planet won't continue to support 7 billion people in the same way it is now. 

 

A bitter, incoherent alcoholic sitting on a barstool can say "let most people die then" but for the rest of humanity it's not that simple.

 

 

Your ignorance of the subject is blinding. Your ignorance of the history of the planet is even more blinding. 

    Your data set shows only the past approx. 450 thousand years. But it does show one interesting fact. The fact that we’re due for another Glacial Period that will flatten many of the great cities on the planet and cover much of our crop growing regions. 

     With any luck, our little bit of warming since the end of the Little Ice Age (circa 1300 - 1850) will help prevent the next Glacial Period. 

    Oh... by the way, the I.P.C.C. says we warmed only 0.85 degree between 1880 - 2012.  Not 2 degrees. (Third, fourth and fifth Assessment Reports)

    Interesting video:

 

9 hours ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

No, it was you who was trying to pretend that those events did not cause mass extinctions in the oceans, remember? 

WOW !!   Now YOU’RE making up crap, just like your Alarmist pal “mogandave”.  

     Do you guys hang out together or something? Go to the same Socialist Warming Alarmist meetings perhaps?

     You see, that’s one of the things about the extreme right, the extreme left, and religious extremists also....They make shit up. They tell lies. 

    You’ve made a claim about me that is not true.

   So here is what you must now do:

    Copy and past a reply with my statement were I claimed things like the Siberian Traps Eruptions did not cause extinction events in the oceans. 

     I’ll wait right here. 

Other people following this thread must find this very interesting. We’re finding out just how socialist Gore Bull Warming/Climate Change Alarmists think. And we see that they are perfectly willing and have no problem with exaggerating and lying and deception in order to advance their “cause”. 

10 minutes ago, Catoni said:

WOW !!   Now YOU’RE making up crap, just like your Alarmist pal “mogandave”.  

     Do you guys hang out together or something? Go to the same Socialist Warming Alarmist meetings perhaps?

     You see, that’s one of the things about the extreme right, the extreme left, and religious extremists also....They make shit up. They tell lies. 

    You’ve made a claim about me that is not true.

   So here is what you must now do:

    Copy and past a reply with my statement were I claimed things like the Siberian Traps Eruptions did not cause extinction events in the oceans. 

     I’ll wait right here. 

Other people following this thread must find this very interesting. We’re finding out just how socialist Gore Bull Warming/Climate Change Alarmists think. And we see that they are perfectly willing and have no problem with exaggerating and lying and deception in order to advance their “cause”. 

 

Quote

 Are you aware of how much climate change the oceans have experienced in the last 600 million years? 

     And sometimes change as fast as 10 degrees in 10 years or less. 

     And you think that somehow,  climate change is now a threat to the oceans? ? ?    5 5 5 5 5 

Every single time temperatures have changed as fast as 10 degrees in 10 years or less there has been a little more than a threat to the oceans, it resulted in mass marine extinctions, I'm happy you now get that, shame you had to deny having said it and rant about all that nonsense, but I presume you are drunk, right?

9 hours ago, mogandave said:

 

You mean like Galileo?

 

Also like Professor Alfred Wegener. Do you know about him?

      I’m sure there are others.

5 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

That was part of my point. They say rising sea temps cause coral bleaching and dying. Which sucks, and I can't think of anyone except maybe someone like Trump who would approve. But if increasing ocean temps are causing corals to die off, doesn't that mean coral habitat is opening up somewhere else? It seems to me it does. 

 

Point in a nutshell: nobody seems to consider warming, or climate change, could actually affect positive changes. The effects can't possibly ALL be negative, which is how things are reported. And when you offset the bad with the good, who knows, maybe it is closer to a wash than we all know. 

As far as coral is concerned, it developed about 400 million years ago, when atmospheric CO2 was in the THOUSANDS of ppm. Same with clams, oysters and other bivalves. 

    They’ve survived all kinds of planetary disasters, including the Siberian Traps eruptions, the Deccan Traps eruptions. Chicxulub Impact Event. 

     But now some people think....they are now under threat of extinction for some weird reason.    55555 ?

 

5 hours ago, utalkin2me said:

That was part of my point. They say rising sea temps cause coral bleaching and dying. Which sucks, and I can't think of anyone except maybe someone like Trump who would approve. But if increasing ocean temps are causing corals to die off, doesn't that mean coral habitat is opening up somewhere else? It seems to me it does. 

 

Point in a nutshell: nobody seems to consider warming, or climate change, could actually affect positive changes. The effects can't possibly ALL be negative, which is how things are reported. And when you offset the bad with the good, who knows, maybe it is closer to a wash than we all know. 

You’re correct. We’ve noticed that with the leftist/socialist Gore Bull Warming/Climate Change Alarmist activists....it’s all gloom and doom. A bit of warming coming out of the L.I.A. must be all bad. Nothing good. It must be a disaster. 

All bad effects. 

     And yet down through history, mankin....oops, I meant to say “people kind”...has always done best in warmer times....not colder times.

   (Holocene Climate Optimum, Minoan Warm Period, Roman Warm Period etc.)

5 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

You guys really cant give it a rest can you. Its so childish.

     Two years in...the left/Dems/socialists are still crying and screaming because Bernie or Hillary didn’t win. 

 

9 minutes ago, Catoni said:

As far as coral is concerned, it developed about 400 million years ago, when atmospheric CO2 was in the THOUSANDS of ppm. Same with clams, oysters and other bivalves. 

    They’ve survived all kinds of planetary disasters, including the Siberian Traps eruptions, the Deccan Traps eruptions. Chicxulub Impact Event. 

     But now some people think....they are now under threat of extinction for some weird reason.    55555 ?

 

 

The coral phylum survived but the vast majority of species went extinct, they are facing the same threat of extinction today, it is not weird that people understand that, it is weird that you don't.

11 minutes ago, Catoni said:

You’re correct. We’ve noticed that with the leftist/socialist Gore Bull Warming/Climate Change Alarmist activists....it’s all gloom and doom. A bit of warming coming out of the L.I.A. must be all bad. Nothing good. It must be a disaster. 

All bad effects. 

     And yet down through history, mankin....oops, I meant to say “people kind”...has always done best in warmer times....not colder times.

   (Holocene Climate Optimum, Minoan Warm Period, Roman Warm Period etc.)

 

Most people would delete it if they read it again, this guy re-posts it!!!!  ?

10 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The coral phylum survived but the vast majority of species went extinct, they are facing the same threat of extinction today, it is not weird that people understand that, it is weird that you don't.

Coral was here four hundred million years ago. It’s here today. 

    Scientists are now finding out the Great Barrier Reef is recovering from some bleaching (a natural thing for coral) nicely. 

   Japanese scientists have found coral is better at adapting to changes than we thought. (No surprise....it’s been around for quite a long time.)

     Clams, oysters etc. have been around for a few hundred million years. They’ll still be here long after we’re all gone. 

    Sea level rise is not in a big hurry......

 

    The Arctic Ocean was supposed to be ice free in Summer months by now. How’s that coming along? 

    I’ve flown over the Arctic Ocean twice in 2013 (second flight was during the Summer. Cathay Pacific CX829 and CX826)and once in 2017 (during summer, China Eastern MU208 )

Ice pretty well shore to shore, as far as the eye can see for a corridor about 475 miles wide and a distance shore to shore of 2000 miles or so. Pretty amazing really. (I just love the great Boeing 777-300ER)

       You see, that’s the thing about bull crap predictions about the Arctic Ocean. Since the fall of the old Soviet Union and the opening up of the Polar Great Circle Routes, anyone who flies those routes from North America to Asia can see for themselves the truth of the Arctic Ocean. Certainly no chance of it being ice free during the Summer months any time soon. Sorry Al Gore and Leonardo DiCaprio 555555 ?

       That must be so very upsetting to the Alarmist left. 

  So much for Alarmist predictions. 

     Gore Bull Warming/Climate Change Alarmists are mostly brainwashed leftists/socialists using Climate Change as a tool in their war chest to bring down capitalism and build socialism/communism in its place. 

50 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Most people would delete it if they read it again, this guy re-posts it!!!!  ?

Oh, that’s all you have? Can’t rebut my statement itself? I reposted that info to give you a second chance, but you blew it.