BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[smedly]

11 minutes ago, roiethome said:

I very much doubt that Makro and Lotus will be closing any outlets if more farangs leave Thailand. The farang spend is a small amount overall. Only the small bars with 100% farang clientele will be the losers.

About time the loopholes were tightened up and those that cant fully comply with the regulations should be forced to leave.

so you can now tell us all how to comply with income based 12 month extension which is what this thread is about

 

do you use income ? how are you going to use that going forward ?

 

you don't know do you, and nobody at this point knows

[soalbundy]

1 minute ago, roath said:

TransferWise provide you with a FX receipt which together from your bank statements in UK and Thailand should (technically) be sufficient proof

My German bank has done away with bank statements due to internet banking but I suppose I could pull a monthly account from the screen. Asking for a monthly statement to be sent to me would cost.

[sandyf]

18 hours ago, Expattaff1308 said:

Spoke to them on the phone, asked the question whether as for visa's only but the response was no and it Includes extensions of stay.

Advised to keep checking the Embassy website for further info, was told they are still speaking to the Thai authorities. I pointed out that the BE was one of the few to require evidence before issuing a letter.

He seems to think the Thai authorities want to see the income of 65,000/40,000 a month coming into your Thai Bank Account if you are not using cash in Bank.

This is probably the bottom line. The income letter never required the income to come to Thailand, using bank statements as proof would ensure it does.

Looks like I will be going back to a marriage extension.

[crazykopite]

18 hours ago, alphason said:

Yes me to, but that's how it reads to me as an alternative to having the 400/800k on deposit.

 

 

The Thai authorities need to have a fair system for all foreigners this 400,000 or 40,000 per month if your married to a Thai is an absolute joke . I am British as is my wife and I would bet we spend less than a fellow Brit who is married to a Thai . I have many foreign friends who are married to Thai woman and they are always making comment how there wives have this spend spend culture it shouldn’t be one rule for one and one rule for the other. I am fortunate that for the past two years I have been able to,use the 800,000 in the bank prior to that I used the BE for the income letter . After 13 years my wife and I have come to the conclusion that Thailand is no longer a welcoming country for expats to many hurdles to get through so reluctantly we have decided to move on in the next two years. 

[Peterw42]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

Yes I agree but that is not the problem

 

It seems Thai Immigration has made changes but have not clarified how they propose to fill the gap regarding proof of income so that has left a lot of people not knowing what they need to now do to qualify for an income based 12 month extension of stay

 

and these changes are to take effect in 3 months time were embassy letter will no longer be accepted

 

Is it any wonder people are now totally confused

Thai immigration have not made any changes, the British embassy has made the changes. Thai immigration still accept income letters, its just that UK embassy doesn't issue them anymore.

UK embassy is not longer putting their name (they sign the letter not you) to income claims, unlike other countries where the the person who writes the letter signs it.

[smedly]

14 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

When I go to the Australian Embassy in Bangkok for a lovely stamp on my statutory declaration which they witness me signing, I take my superannuation statement for the current year which they barely glance at though this year they did keep a copy of it. In and out in 7 minutes 2 weeks ago.

and if what we are hearing here is correct then that will be the last time you will be doing that...……………..no more letters 

 

at this time nobody knows what immigration will need going forward, I assume they will clarify that in due course - although they have left it a bit late for UK Citizens if you ask me - barely 3 months notice

[watso63]

It appears that there is a co-ordinated policy review going on behind the scenes and the BE has been notified about what will be the outcome so are giving advance warning. Obviously the system has been abused for decades and now someone has decided enough is enough. Just read the headlines, no "tips" to IO's for doing a job they are paid to do, a crackdown is coming on dodgy visa agents which has to include the corrupt bank managers and IO's and the magical 800,000 baht one day bank book for a fee scam. For those out there that believe Big Joke is a joke, then I fear the joke's on you. This has been coming for a while, the "good guys in, bad guys out" and the "get on the right visa" statements were warnings. The changes to overstay penalties, the crackdowns on border runners, just more of the same. One last point, anyone that thinks an IO is going to check foreign bank ATM transactions is living in cloud cuckoo land. Chok dee

Edited October 9, 2018 by watso63
Spelling correction

[phutoie2]

8 minutes ago, roath said:

As you are so keen for expats to comply with the regulations, perhaps you can clarify what the regulations actually are? Read the threads before posting vacuous and otiose comments

He surely will reply soon, after confirming with his agent what the regulations are. 

[sandyf]

4 minutes ago, smedly said:

so you can now tell us all how to comply with income based 12 month extension which is what this thread is about

 

do you use income ? how are you going to use that going forward ?

 

you don't know do you, and nobody at this point knows

I would think that is fairly straightforward. The statement I get for my extension has a summary line along the bottom showing the amount deposited over the period of the statement. If on a 12 month statement the amount deposited divided by 12 exceeded 65k then you should be good to go.

[roath]

6 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

My German bank has done away with bank statements due to internet banking but I suppose I could pull a monthly account from the screen. Asking for a monthly statement to be sent to me would cost.

If your bank doesn't provide you with PDF monthly statements for download, you should be able to do a screen print (or a real print) or save to PDF 

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

Yes I agree but that is not the problem

 

It seems Thai Immigration has made changes but have not clarified how they propose to fill the gap regarding proof of income so that has left a lot of people not knowing what they need to now do to qualify for an income based 12 month extension of stay

 

and these changes are to take effect in 3 months time were embassy letter will no longer be accepted

 

Is it any wonder people are now totally confused

We don't know if this is a blanket refusal to refuse confirmation from all embassies or just the GB embassy, the German embassy has confirmed that they have received my Email regarding this matter but haven't replied yet, indeed we don't know if this is a British decision or a Thai one, the UK website statement is a little ambiguous. 

[roath]

6 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thai immigration have not made any changes, the British embassy has made the changes. Thai immigration still accept income letters, its just that UK embassy doesn't issue them anymore.

UK embassy is not longer putting their name (they sign the letter not you) to income claims, unlike other countries where the the person who writes the letter signs it.

That doesn't appear to be correct, as other Embassies are following suit

 

You say that Immigration will still accept income letters, but from whom? Until now, the only form of income letter acceptable to immigration was from your home country's embassy

 

If you mention Thai banks, as per many posts on this thread, until now, income has meant exactly that. Actual income from any country and any source. If the requirement is now that income means income into a Thai bank, then that is respectfully a significant change in the definition/interpretation of income by immigration and the whole point of people requiring clarification

 

 

[New beginnings]

I am due to renew my retirement extension in 10 days but have always used the combination method as reluctant to deposit full 800k in local Thai bank. Embassy letter implies now need minimum 800k and combination no longer available. Is this correct as whilst could transfer funds to cover shortfall today this will not allow seasoning for required 3 months.

[roath]

2 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

We don't know if this is a blanket refusal to refuse confirmation from all embassies or just the GB embassy, the German embassy has confirmed that they have received my Email regarding this matter but haven't replied yet, indeed we don't know if this is a British decision or a Thai one, the UK website statement is a little ambiguous. 

There are threads on Facebook groups about other Embassies following suit, so this would appear to reflect a change in policy

 

If that isn't the case and this is limited to the UK, then obviously that raises other questions

[NanLaew]

37 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

It all states quite clearly what will be required on the UK Government website what will be required after 1st January 2019 when no more letters are issued. The money MUST then be in a Thai bank account either 800k lump sum or 65k a month income proved by a letter from your THAI BANK. The money MUST come into Thailand

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/british-embassy-bangkok-to-stop-certification-of-income-letters

In a similar way that the current income letter attests to evidence of adequate qualifying income over the 12 months prior to extension renewal, I  would assume the new 65k/month income banked locally would need to have been happening every month for the previous 12 months?

 

I know Bangkok Bank will issue a 1-year statement on request, comes from 'head office' for a nominal fee. AFAIK, their online, downloadable account history is only good for the last 6 months.

 

This may create issues for some who have either been using the annual proof of overseas income letter method and accordingly have not been bringing in the required amount over the previous 12 months? It's probably been talked to death in previous posts that it's just not that easy to open a bank account as a retiree here and some may have managed to cope without such an encumbrance and are either bringing in undeclared cash or using ATM's and pulling money from overseas.

 

I suppose those who are retired and married may forego any sort of extension renewal and option to get the Non-O multi at Savanakhet based on marriage without proof of funds for as long as that option lasts.

[roath]

1 minute ago, New beginnings said:

I am due to renew my retirement extension in 10 days but have always used the combination method as reluctant to deposit full 800k in local Thai bank. Embassy letter implies now need minimum 800k and combination no longer available. Is this correct as whilst could transfer funds to cover shortfall today this will not allow seasoning for required 3 months.

There is nothing to suggest that the combination will no longer be accepted

The issue appears to be what immigration will accept as proof of income

[crazykopite]

21 minutes ago, roath said:

If they are looking to get rid of dodgy agents, then cracking down on income verification is going to push more people into agencies to sort out their visas, not fewer

someone just posted (unwisely in my view) that they went to immigration with a letter from their agents showing 800K issued that day which is clearly abusing the system 

 

if people are abusing the income verification system, it isn't difficult for immigration to require the appropriate documentation to verify the funds/source of funds and prosecute people who provide false information (it's fraud/perjury so a serious offence)

I haven’t had a pension letter for 3 years due to my having enough funds in my Thai bank however prior to this I used to get the Embassy letter , I had to provide all documents along with P60s tax paid  on the back of the letter it showed a copy of the breakdown of my income as it came from 3 sources this would allow the immigration officer to see where the income had come from.

[smedly]

21 minutes ago, Peterw42 said:

Thai immigration have not made any changes, the British embassy has made the changes. Thai immigration still accept income letters, its just that UK embassy doesn't issue them anymore.

UK embassy is not longer putting their name (they sign the letter not you) to income claims, unlike other countries where the the person who writes the letter signs it.

wrong, the UK Embassy have stated that Thai Immigration will no longer accept the letters, go start at page one of this thread

 

If you do not believe what they have said then that is entirely up to you - take it up with them

 

Edited October 9, 2018 by smedly

[roath]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

In a similar way that the current income letter attests to evidence of adequate qualifying income over the 12 months prior to extension renewal, I  would assume the new 65k/month income banked locally would need to have been happening every month for the previous 12 months?

 

I know Bangkok Bank will issue a 1-year statement on request, comes from 'head office' for a nominal fee. AFAIK, their online, downloadable account history is only good for the last 6 months.

 

This may create issues for some who have either been using the annual proof of overseas income letter method and accordingly have not been bringing in the required amount over the previous 12 months? It's probably been talked to death in previous posts that it's just not that easy to open a bank account as a retiree here and some may have managed to cope without such an encumbrance and are either bringing in undeclared cash or using ATM's and pulling money from overseas.

 

I suppose those who are retired and married may forego any sort of extension renewal and option to get the Non-O multi at Savanakhet based on marriage without proof of funds for as long as that option lasts.

At the moment, there are only assumptions

 

Nobody actually seems to know what is going on and the reason for the changes and how they will affect expats in general

 

it would have been more helpful for the British Embassy to clarify the reason behind the refusals (perhaps they can't for diplomatic reasons) and regardless to have actually clarified the new requirements from Immigration rather than post what is (according to current interpretation of the regulations) guidance that is actually incorrect (and incomplete)

[4MyEgo]

19 hours ago, colinneil said:

British embassy are a total waste of space.

 

Sounds like a royal shove off if you ask me, no doubt if they get enough slack from British xpats they will do what they intend to do if you can look under the sheets, i.e. start charging, e.g. after much consultation with xpat members residing in Thailand, we have decided to provide extra staff to handle the letters exclusively and charge for them at a cost of 1,000 baht per letter request so as to pay for the additional staff, badda bing, badda bang, badda BOOOOOM

 

Watch this space !

[PETDCAT]

last week i renewed my retirement visa. When I went to the US consulate I had my income statement filled out already from a copy I picked up on my last visit. I was told to fill out new form that has additional sentence added that Thai immigration  requested. The sentence says: the U.S. Consulate does not guarantee the contents of the sworn statement. When I submitted my paperwork to immigration the officer highlighted in yellow this sentence and told me I needed additional paperwork. I went home and copied a pension statement and returned to immigration. She glanced at it and said fine. So I said no point in paying the Consulate the $50.00, if this paper is enough. "No" she said you need both. This was last week on Tuesday....things might be different already

 

 

This was in Chiang Mai

Edited October 9, 2018 by PETDCAT
additional info

[BobBKK]

I'm really sorry for those fellow Brits who will now suffer because of this Thai (not British) intransigence. The British Embassy will comply with Thai requirements and if they cannot what choice do they have? 

Thailand changes and enforces when it feels like it and ignores when it's not convenient. I do understand there are some who abuse this system (yes some US citizens 'swearing' they have the income) but I think Thailand's draconian enforcement might be tempered with some common sense and many Brits who have genuine pensions coming in will now be greatly inconvenienced etc. 

[Esso49]

2 minutes ago, smedly said:

wrong, the UK Embassy have stated that Thai Immigration will no longer accept the letters, go start at page one of this thread

 

This thread could become the Thai expat version of "Snakes and Ladders".   Up the ladder and down the Snakes. The only difference is that there will never be any winners or losers on a forum

[mwbrown]

18 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

 

Please report back as I have just changed to the monthly transfer last year and don't want to have to go back to the 800K in the bank again.

[Rimmer]

Some flames and replies have been removed

[crazykopite]

1 hour ago, gintis0604 said:

Time to leave Thailand and all stupidity here. 

Sadly I have to agree this is just the start of things to come every year it becomes harder and harder unless you are lucky enough to be able to afford the “ Elite Card “ whicj I am not  ☹️

[mfd101]

14 minutes ago, smedly said:

and if what we are hearing here is correct then that will be the last time you will be doing that...……………..no more letters 

 

at this time nobody knows what immigration will need going forward, I assume they will clarify that in due course - although they have left it a bit late for UK Citizens if you ask me - barely 3 months notice

In the Australian case it's NOT a letter and NOT a letter from the Embassy. It's a statutory declaration (affirmation or affidavit) written/typed by ME and the Embassy merely witnesses MY signature on it. It may be that this will soon no longer be acceptable to the Thais but for the moment there's no announcement of any change at all.

[roath]

2 minutes ago, BobBKK said:

I'm really sorry for those fellow Brits who will now suffer because of this Thai (not British) intransigence. The British Embassy will comply with Thai requirements and if they cannot what choice do they have? 

Thailand changes and enforces when it feels like it and ignores when it's not convenient. I do understand there are some who abuse this system (yes some US citizens 'swearing' they have the income) but I think Thailand's draconian enforcement might be tempered with some common sense and many Brits who have genuine pensions coming in will now be greatly inconvenienced etc. 

The main problem is the lack of clarify from immigration (and the British Embassy) as to what is going to be acceptable going forward

 

The fact is that probably most people will be able to comply, but we need to know how we are meant to be complying. Until now, immigration accepted (required) an income verification letter from one's home embassy. If that is going out the window, then OK, but what is wrong with immigration issuing a short statement clarifying what will be required going forward. 

 

[Peterw42]

I  will  say  this  very  slowly so  people understand.

 

Thai immigration has "not" stopped accepting income letters, the British embassy has stopped issuing income letters.

 

It appears that the British embassy is stopping the letters because, unlike other embassies, the UK letters are from the consulate, signed by the consulate. They are no longer putting their name to individual claims. (we cannot verify your income). They cannot keep "signing" letters saying Fred Nerk has an income of 123. And, I presume the liability that goes along with signing such a statement.

 

Other consulates dont write the letters or sign them, they witness the signature on a personal letter/statement/declaration. Other embassies, in theory the letter can state that you get paid in kryponite from superman every month, the embassy will simply witness that you wrote the letter and signed it.

 

 

[soalbundy]

7 minutes ago, smedly said:

wrong, the UK Embassy have stated that Thai Immigration will no longer accept the letters, go start at page one of this thread

 

They only refer to themselves, that THEY are unable to fulfil the requirements needed by the Thai authorities, there is no mention of a blanket refusal of all embassies.