BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[OJAS]

10 hours ago, CharlieH said:

Realistically, until the service stops in December, then allowing a few months for the validity of said letter, the Thai I.O. has around 6 months to formulate and publish its requirements going forward as a result of this decision being made/announced by the British Embassy.  

Until an announcement is made everything else is just speculation. (IMHO)

Well I am personally not banking on any Immigration Bureau announcement ever being made - apart, most likely, from repeating the current line that, in the absence of any Embassy letter, the only way in which we Brits can in future legitimately prove finances are 400k bank balance/2 months seasoning for marriage extensions or 800k bank balance/3 months seasoning for retirement extensions. Accordingly I shall in 2019 be switching from retirement extensions based on 65k monthly income to marriage extensions based on 400k bank balances via a 60-day extension to visit my wife for seasoning purposes. Raising the necessary 400k over the next 7 months will necessitate quite a bit of belt-tightening, but that's life, I suppose.

 

I do, however, feel for those retirees who do not have the marriage option and will thus be faced with having to drum up 800k in their Thai bank accounts in a short space of time. As far as I am concerned, the Embassy's suggestion that we could prove finances simply by dumping 40k or 65k into our Thai bank accounts each month is complete and utter BS on their part (in common with their allegation that their American counterparts might be considering withdrawing their income confirmation service).

 

 

 

[Spidey]

18 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Well I am personally not banking on any Immigration Bureau announcement ever being made - apart, most likely, from repeating the current line that, in the absence of any Embassy letter, the only way in which we Brits can in future legitimately prove finances are 400k bank balance/2 months seasoning for marriage extensions or 800k bank balance/3 months seasoning for retirement extensions. Accordingly I shall in 2019 be switching from retirement extensions based on 65k monthly income to marriage extensions based on 400k bank balances via a 60-day extension to visit my wife for seasoning purposes. Raising the necessary 400k over the next 7 months will necessitate quite a bit of belt-tightening, but that's life, I suppose.

 

I do, however, feel for those retirees who do not have the marriage option and will thus be faced with having to drum up 800k in their Thai bank accounts in a short space of time. As far as I am concerned, the Embassy's suggestion that we could prove finances simply by dumping 40k or 65k into our Thai bank accounts each month is complete and utter BS on their part (in common with their allegation that their American counterparts might be considering withdrawing their income confirmation service).

 

 

 

Sums up the whole situation very well, for me.

 

Fortunately, I am in a position to transfer funds from the UK to season my Thai bank account to the tune of 800k baht. However, it's not something that I'm very happy about. Currently, my UK assets are primarily in a share portfolio and removing 800k baht from it will make a serious dent in it resulting in a loss of income for me. I hold the British Embassy/F.O. entirely responsible for this loss.

[oldlakey]

5 hours ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

If one is over 50, Malaysia requires a fixed deposit in a Malaysian bank of MYR 150,000 (USD 36,118 or THB 1,189,358) AND a monthly income of MYR 10,000 (USD 2,408 or THB 79,240) and the fixed deposit is now required - no more 'monthly income' only.

 

If one is below age 50, the fixed deposit is MYR 300,000 (USD 72,236 or THB 2,378,716)

 

And it's been rumored that the Malaysian government is considering raising the fixed deposit amount to MYR 500,000 (USD 120,393 or THB 3,964,525)

 

I can certainly understand a government's desire to attract 'quality tourists/retirees', whatever that may mean, but with those amounts, especially the rumored increased amounts and speaking as someone who can afford it and had been considering Malaysia, I think those 'quality retirees' will be very thin on the ground

I worked that out years ago, marriage to a Malaysian was the answer  then they require practically nothing apart from the fact you are still breathing

Edited October 10, 2018 by oldlakey

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, PST said:

So,,,i'm on a Non O and want to extend based on marriage,,,,i cant apply until the last 30 days of my 90 day stamp, which is early December ( before the deadline date of the 12th), do I...

A) apply for letter of income the 'old way' by showing 40k in a uk bank account, then use it to apply in the original way

That is the best thing to do. Immigration has not changed anything.

9 hours ago, PST said:

B) apply without a letter of income early December showing only 2 months of income transferred into a thai account ( as its only 2 months before I need to apply)

 

Not possible. Immigration will still want the income letter. Be prepared to show you have had the income transferred into a Thai bank for those two months if they ask for it.

[soalbundy]

The German embassy has just replied to my Email that I sent last night. They still issue the confirmation letters and have no plans to stop doing this, any changes would have been announced on their website.

[ubonjoe]

A off topic post and a reply to it have been removed.

[kinyara]

When I bring physical cash over twice a year to top up my 800k amount for visa time I think it would be prudent from now on to keep my exchange booth receipts and pay the exact same amount into my account. Threads like this sometimes indirectly make you realise improvements in your funds audit trail you hadn't previously thought of. Maybe not required but a sensible precaution I feel

[JackThompson]

20 minutes ago, kinyara said:

When I bring physical cash over twice a year to top up my 800k amount for visa time I think it would be prudent from now on to keep my exchange booth receipts and pay the exact same amount into my account. Threads like this sometimes indirectly make you realise improvements in your funds audit trail you hadn't previously thought of. Maybe not required but a sensible precaution I feel

If I were going to try to prove this (assuming it would be accepted by Immigration), I would declare the money and get a receipt from Customs. 

 

Granted, just as one could convert money twice at exchange to get the 2nd receipt, one could fly out and back with money and only "declare" it on the way in, or send some money out transferwise and then SWIFT it back. 

There really is no substitute for a legal declaration of income.  Yes, a person could lie, but only under penalty of law in their passport-country, which is a greater deterrent to fraud than simply requiring proof of foreign money coming in.  I have a difficult time believing the Brit-embassy's story, that showing deposits - even foreign-origin deposits - will be accepted.

[007 RED]

As TV forum followers we must thank ourselves lucky that we are now aware that the BE will no longer provide its Nationals with a letter confirming income, and that we can start to make plans as to alternative methods for providing the required evidence.

 

For a moment spare a thought for those poor individuals who in the past have relied upon the Embassy letter to support their application to extend their stay and do not access TV, or look at the BE website news page. 

 

I suspect that there will be quite a few cases were individuals will access the BE website about a month before their renewal is due in order to get the latest form/information for applying for the letter.  They are going to be in for a big shock when they find that the Embassy will not supply the letter any more.  To say they are going to be in the fertilizer is an understatement.  How the heck are they going to arrange transfer of funds to meet the immigration requirements at such short notice.  They can't.

 

Those of us who have applied online for an Embassy letter as evidence of or income during the past 12 months have provided the Embassy with our email address, and no doubt that information is retained by the Embassy on a spreadsheet somewhere.  I would have thought that the Embassy, as a ‘damage limitation exercise’ for its Nationals, would send the past year’s applicants an email to inform them that they will no longer provide the letter confirming income and advise them of the alternatives.  OK, pigs will fly, I know. 

 

I just hope that the message gets out to the wider audience and that some poor old retiree doesn’t get an unexpected trip back to the UK via IDC.

 

[simoh1490]

This move by the Embassy will no doubt cause some pain to people who don't deserve it and that's very sad, the fact is though that scammers who have tried to circumvent the rules in the past have brought about this change. In that respect, I think the move is a good one, simply because it makes the system more difficult to circumvent. For many people, I suspect the change will not represent an undue hardship although some will need to take a deep breath before being willing to transfer funds to a Thai bank. For those who don't have the funds in the first place and who were always living on the edge, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise for many of them.

[OJAS]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Fortunately, I am in a position to transfer funds from the UK to season my Thai bank account to the tune of 800k baht. However, it's not something that I'm very happy about. Currently, my UK assets are primarily in a share portfolio and removing 800k baht from it will make a serious dent in it resulting in a loss of income for me. I hold the British Embassy/F.O. entirely responsible for this loss.

Even finding the necessary 400k for a marriage extension over the next 7 months is likely to prove a tall order for me, and result in the halving of the amount I give my wife each month until August 2019. I am particularly angered by the fact that it is entirely thanks to Embassy dithering that I have been forced to place a financial burden on her at such short notice. Given that those incompetent fools appear to have hoisted the white flag of surrender at a meeting with the Immigration Bureau which was held as long ago as May, why on earth could they have not informed us immediately after that meeting that they were planning to discontinue their income confirmation letter service from 1st January 2019? That would then have doubled the amount of time available to us to consider alternative funding arrangements!

 

Grrr....!!????????

[OJAS]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

For many people, I suspect the change will not represent an undue hardship

You have just got to be kidding surely! Read my post immediately above and I dare you to make the same outrageous comment again in the light of what I have said!!

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

You have just got to be kidding surely! Read my post immediately above and I dare you to make the same outrageous comment again in the light of what I have said!!

You appear to have not read the very first sentence, either that or you have forgotten it, here it is again:

 

"This move by the Embassy will no doubt cause some pain to people who don't deserve it and that's very sad".

 

And don't call me surely.????

[yang123]

13 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

Those of us who have applied online for an Embassy letter as evidence of or income during the past 12 months have provided the Embassy with our email address, and no doubt that information is retained by the Embassy on a spreadsheet somewhere.  I would have thought that the Embassy, as a ‘damage limitation exercise’ for its Nationals, would send the past year’s applicants an email to inform them that they will no longer provide the letter confirming income and advise them of the alternatives.  OK, pigs will fly, I know. 

Precisely.  ????

[JackThompson]

 

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

This move by the Embassy will no doubt cause some pain to people who don't deserve it and that's very sad, the fact is though that scammers who have tried to circumvent the rules in the past have brought about this change. In that respect, I think the move is a good one, simply because it makes the system more difficult to circumvent. For many people, I suspect the change will not represent an undue hardship although some will need to take a deep breath before being willing to transfer funds to a Thai bank. For those who don't have the funds in the first place and who were always living on the edge, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise for many of them.

There is no evidence that "scammers" created this situation.  It is Immigration that openly allows scamming and circumventing the system via agent-submitted apps - even turning a blind-eye to public advertisement of these "sponsored" application services.  It seems a more plausible possibility that this letter-impasse between Immigration and the BE could be part of expanding that scheme - as so-called "crackdowns" have done in the past.

 

I don't see how someone living "on the edge" at Thialand's cost-of-living would be better off in their more-expensive-overhead home-country - likely stuck in a dangerous neighborhood eating poorly if they did.  But if you mean they may move to somewhere more welcoming - like Cambodia, Vietnam, or the PI - that could be partially-true.  A real bummer their entire social-circle will be wrecked, though.

If this is not resolved in a reasonable way (allowing income to continue to be used), then I hope retirees can work with others in the same boat to find new locations in the welcoming countries, and attempt to re-create their communities there - to the extent that is possible.

[NanLaew]

On 10/9/2018 at 3:17 AM, PETDCAT said:

last week i renewed my retirement visa. When I went to the US consulate I had my income statement filled out already from a copy I picked up on my last visit. I was told to fill out new form that has additional sentence added that Thai immigration  requested. The sentence says: the U.S. Consulate does not guarantee the contents of the sworn statement. When I submitted my paperwork to immigration the officer highlighted in yellow this sentence and told me I needed additional paperwork. I went home and copied a pension statement and returned to immigration. She glanced at it and said fine. So I said no point in paying the Consulate the $50.00, if this paper is enough. "No" she said you need both. This was last week on Tuesday....things might be different already

 

 

This was in Chiang Mai

Good observation there. It buggers my theory about why the BE is stopping this service since the BE income letters always had a similar 'disclaimer' statement across the bottom. I was pondering that maybe Thai Immigration had requested it be removed but now more likely they may have asked for the same, exact wording that the US are now placing on their income affidavits and highly likely the FCO mandarins and lawyers said they cannot do that.

 

If anyone has a BE income letter, maybe they can post the exact wording of their disclaimer just for comparison?

[kinyara]

9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

This move by the Embassy will no doubt cause some pain to people who don't deserve it and that's very sad, the fact is though that scammers who have tried to circumvent the rules in the past have brought about this change. In that respect, I think the move is a good one, simply because it makes the system more difficult to circumvent. For many people, I suspect the change will not represent an undue hardship although some will need to take a deep breath before being willing to transfer funds to a Thai bank. For those who don't have the funds in the first place and who were always living on the edge, perhaps this is a blessing in disguise for many of them.

Only if the Thai authorities sort out their own issue of agents and corrupt staff circumventing the system to their own profit. Based on the number of people I personally know who use neither the lump sum or income method but the " corrupt " method it's quite possible this is as big an issue that needs addressing if they want a transparent system. I won't hold my breath on that one. 

[sandyf]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Not making any predictions. There have been no such announcements from Thai immigration of any planned policy change on that matter. If and when that happens, then the very long standing will have changed. But not now. The British embassy does not make Thai immigration policy.

 

Nothing has changed now, did my extension yesterday, exactly the same as last year.

Until something does change, leave out the inflammatory comments

"How difficult is that if you have no such letter?"

 

You really think that the Thai government would not become aware of any petition aimed at the Bangkok Embassy. You have been around a while, thought you would have understood the concept of losing face.

"

[simoh1490]

4 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

There is no evidence that "scammers" created this situation.  It is Immigration that openly allows scamming and circumventing the system via agent-submitted apps - even turning a blind-eye to public advertisement of these "sponsored" application services.  It seems a more plausible possibility that this letter-impasse between Immigration and the BE could be part of expanding that scheme - as so-called "crackdowns" have done in the past.

 

I don't see how someone living "on the edge" at Thialand's cost-of-living would be better off in their more-expensive-overhead home-country - likely stuck in a dangerous neighborhood eating poorly if they did.  But if you mean they may move to somewhere more welcoming - like Cambodia, Vietnam, or the PI - that could be partially-true.  A real bummer their entire social-circle will be wrecked, though.

If this is not resolved in a reasonable way (allowing income to continue to be used), then I hope retirees can work with others in the same boat to find new locations in the welcoming countries, and attempt to re-create their communities there - to the extent that is possible.

5

There is ample evidence regarding the scammers: the expat who borrows the money from an agent and then repays it after the visa is recieved and the expat who buys income letters from the internet, both have been widely admitted here on TVF over the years - post 1068 above confirms this to be true.

Edited October 11, 2018 by simoh1490

[anon537687643]

Do all IO have to see prove of the money for retirement extension (400-800k)coming from outside Thailand ? If anyone could get funds into the account from friends or family in the country is that acceptable ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

[Spidey]

14 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

This move by the Embassy will no doubt cause some pain to people who don't deserve it and that's very sad, the fact is though that scammers who have tried to circumvent the rules in the past have brought about this change.

Zero evidence that scammers have circumvented the rules obtaining an income letter from the British Embassy by supplying false information.

 

The situation is bad enough without people inventing "facts".

[kinyara]

4 minutes ago, markaoffy said:

Do all IO have to see prove of the money for retirement extension (400-800k)coming from outside Thailand ? If anyone could get funds into the account from friends or family in the country is that acceptable ?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

 

In my case I worked in Thailand, ( legitimately :)) ), and built up the requirement through salary savings. I was never asked if the money had come from abroad when I first applied, that was 3 years ago.

[ubonjoe]

Off topic inflammatory posts and replies to them again have been removed.

From now on posts and replies to them will be removed without notice.

[NanLaew]

9 minutes ago, kinyara said:

Only if the Thai authorities sort out their own issue of agents and corrupt staff circumventing the system to their own profit. Based on the number of people I personally know who use neither the lump sum or income method but the " corrupt " method it's quite possible this is as big an issue that needs addressing if they want a transparent system. I won't hold my breath on that one. 

My sentiments axactly. The Thai authorities are getting around to dealing with the elephant in the room and the BE have stepped back to let them get on with their own housecleaning.

 

It's maybe coincident as well as being mentioned earlier (I'm not about to read over 80 pages of frothy postulation) but Big Joke has just been moved from heading a successful, high-profile catch-and-toss the illegals campaign at the Tourist Police to become the new Immigration police chief. Maybe he knows where the 'agent' skeletons are and wants to know who the cupboard belongs to?

[pontious]

10 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

If anyone has a BE income letter, maybe they can post the exact wording of their disclaimer just for comparison?

It says:

The service provided by the British Embassy on this document should not be taken as to certify that this document is binding in law [ whether under UK law or otherwise ]. Individuals are advised to seek independent legal advice as to the validity of this document under the relevant law.

 

[superal]

Now , to add salt to the wound , a friend of mine uses the 800k method to secure his visa . The 800k not only has to be in his Thai bank account for 3 months but the account has to be seen as active with regular deposits and withdrawals with the account never below the basic 800k  amount . This was fairly recent .

[Spidey]

11 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

There is ample evidence regarding the scammers: the expat who borrows the money from an agent and then repays it after the visa is recieved and the expat who buys income letters from the internet, both have been widely admitted here on TVF over the years - post 1068 above confirms this to be true.

Common practice for visa agents to "seed" bank accounts and give a sweetner to IO to get them through. I suspect that this practice may come to an end.

 

People buying fake British Embassy income letters off the internet and having them accepted by the IO? Highly unlikely. evidence please.

[NanLaew]

11 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Zero evidence that scammers have circumvented the rules obtaining an income letter from the British Embassy by supplying false information.

 

The situation is bad enough without people inventing "facts".

I think he/she was maybe referring to the well known but illegal proof of income methods that appear to be common enough in various jursidictions and not to any possible perjurious claims that makes the BE complicit in a scam. My understanding is the illegal 'cash option' method obviates the need for any income letters of any sort from any entity.

[Jingthing]

Now , to add salt to the wound , a friend of mine uses the 800k method to secure his visa . The 800k not only has to be in his Thai bank account for 3 months but the account has to be seen as active with regular deposits and withdrawals with the account never below the basic 800k  amount . This was fairly recent .

What office?
Careful with your language.
Some people might read that as a requirement that it be over 800k all year rather than three months.
Yes they might want to see activity because if not they may wonder where your spending is coming from.
Sorry I don't believe they would really be requiring frequent deposits on bank based applications.
Sounds to me like a miscommunication.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NanLaew]

22 minutes ago, pontious said:

It says:

The service provided by the British Embassy on this document should not be taken as to certify that this document is binding in law [ whether under UK law or otherwise ]. Individuals are advised to seek independent legal advice as to the validity of this document under the relevant law. 

 

Thanks for that. The UK income letter denies being sustainable under any legal scrutiny whereas the US one simply says there's no guarantee without any implication or inference to any legalities.