BREAKING NEWS British Embassy Bangkok to Stop Certification of Income Letters

[soalbundy]

We ought to wait for Ubonjoe on this one.

[blackhorse]

It's possible they actually increased it to 2K to deter people from using that method of income verification. What are the odds of having your (possibly false) stat dec being challenged, and subsequently charged?

I wonder when they smacked 10 k on a new passport if that was a deterant? Nah they are greedy grubs

Not much chance of getting caught with a false stat dec

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 minute ago, Thaidream said:

While I could certainly bring 4o0K or 800K into Thailand- I don't.  I use a Thai ATM to obtain my spending money tied to several American accounts by using  US Debit Cards.  Online banking shows the balance; the Thai ATM the money is taken out of and the amount of monthly deposits.  Can easily print out 12 months of deposits and debits plus letters from Pensions verify total amounts.

 

Since the police order indicates income per month is acceptable- I see no reason why an income letter is even needed when one's  banking statements  can verify exactly how much one is getting each month/   It is posslbe they could change the Police Order but that would require a change in the Immigration Act itself unless I am mistaken.

This may not be acceptable to immigration.

Presently, taking your Thai bank book in is not acceptable. Thai bank statements in is not acceptable. It must be bank produced letter and bank produced copies of bank book with every page stamped with the official bank stamp.

[pagallim]

5 minutes ago, giddyup said:

It's possible they actually increased it to 2K to deter people from using that method of income verification. What are the odds of having your (possibly false) stat dec being challenged, and subsequently charged?

More a case of other Embassies seeking further clarification from Immigration before making their own announcement, nothing to do with UK Embassy staffing.   Their system of requesting letters on-line from around a year or so ago is pretty slick.

[mercman24]

well the Thai banks are going to have billions of baht on hold if we all have to show 800,000. thats why its being done, i do the money in the bank plus pensions, so now instead of having 3 thousand UK pounds in a Thai bank is have to show about 20,000 uk pounds.. ( 800,000  baht plus 3 months spends) all my money is in the UK where it is safe, lose your money here and they dont want to know. and as one poster put it, whats happens when you croak it, i remember about 4 years ago , some guy who died, his friend was sorting out his affairs to release money, never did hear the end of it. my money is for my daughter in the UK not these scamming banks

[blorg]

@Thaidream it's going to be down to what your specific immigration office wants when you go for the extension. You'll either have it or not have it, but I would not presume they will take printouts of foreign online banking showing ATM withdrawals in Thailand. I'd suggest you find out for sure 100% what they will need to do the monthly income route at least three months in advance, so you have time to "season" the 800k if necessary. If you are rejected for an extension on the basis of monthly income, you can't just bring in 800k on the spot, it has to be there for several months, and in the meantime you will need to leave Thailand. So make sure you find out in advance what they will take.

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, giddyup said:

It's possible they actually increased it to 2K to deter people from using that method of income verification. What are the odds of having your (possibly false) stat dec being challenged, and subsequently charged?

I dont think its 2k as a deterent as its 2k for a statutory declaration no matter what it says, it can be for income, residence or pledging allegiance to the almighty chicken god.

 

[giddyup]

3 minutes ago, Cletus said:

The message from the Thai authorities (Big Joke&Co) is clear:

there's too many farangs in our country, many of you are also abusing the system. We want only the very rich ones to live here (buy elite visa) or, at least, you have to deposit your money (800k/65kmonth) into our banks.

Fair enough IMO.

[giddyup]

Just now, Peterw42 said:

I dont think its 2k as a deterent as its 2k for a statutory declaration no matter what it says, it can be for income, residence or pledging allegiance to the almighty chicken god.

 

The price was increased to 2K this year I believe. Can't remember what it was before, but it was a pittance compared to 2000 baht.

[Quack]

The most relevant question that no one seems to have answered yet is, will they still allow people to show proof of income using only a bank letter? Or some other kind of proof? If so then it's no big deal, if not, then it's a problem for many I'm sure...

[pagallim]

22 minutes ago, Esso49 said:

So a document provided at the request of a British Citizen,  by the British Embassy to that British Citizen is no longer going to be provided as the Thai authorities said they must not provide it? That is a strange thing that one sovereign state can dictate to another sovereign state what it can, or can not issue, to a national of it's own country. That's the claim by the British Embassy.

 

Perhaps that was the excuse.

 

Now if the British Embassy had been advised by the Thai authorities that the letter confirming income , as issued by the British Embassy, was no longer acceptable to the Thai authorities, then I could believe that.  Given that,  then the British Embassy has then consequently decided to no longer issue same. So hence they should come clean and admit upon the actual basis that the British Embassy has come to that decision. It was not a Thai instruction but solely a British decision based on the foregoing.

No, what Immigration are saying is that income verification letters issued by an Embassy are no longer acceptable.   My understanding is that Immigration now require proof of either 4/800,000 baht on deposit for the required period, or minimum 40/65,000 baht/month being credited to a Thai account, neither of which any Embassy could provide verification for, only your bank could do that.   My question would be, for what period would you have to show the monthly credit for, i.e. the previous 12 months, or as in the case of the lump sum, 3 months.

Edited October 8, 2018 by pagallim

[Peterw42]

1 minute ago, Quack said:

The most relevant question that no one seems to have answered yet is, will they still allow people to show proof of income using only a bank letter? Or some other kind of proof? If so then it's no big deal, if not, then it's a problem for many I'm sure...

There has never been an option to for bank letter to prove monthly income, the bank letter is to show the 800k deposit.

[blackhorse]

The price was increased to 2K this year I believe. Can't remember what it was before, but it was a pittance compared to 2000 baht.

500

[Jip99]

My two P60’s evidence my income.

 

 

I shall wait to see if Thai immigration understands that.

[Jingthing]

5 minutes ago, pagallim said:

No, what Immigration are saying is that income verification letters issued by an Embassy are no longer acceptable.   My understanding is that Immigration now require proof of either 4/800,000 baht on deposit for the required period, or minimum 40/65,000 baht/month being credited to a Thai account, neither of which any Embassy could provide verification for, only your bank could do that.   My question would be, for what period would you have to show the monthly credit for, i.e. the previous 12 months, or as in the case of the lump sum, 3 months.

No, they are not saying that. The British Embassy is saying that. As it stands now every day people of many nationalities are using INCOME LETTERS as "proof" to immigration of their qualifying income both for full income and combination applications. It's a bit too early to proclaim that this announcement from the British embassy reflects a global change in policy from Thai immigration. 

Edited October 8, 2018 by Jingthing

[Quack]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

There has never been an option to for bank letter to prove monthly income, the bank letter is to show the 800k deposit.

I'm aware of that. So ideally it would be nice if they can clarify if they will allow bank letters going forward... From the original post, it doesn't look like showing income will be an option going forward, unless they change the rules

[soalbundy]

6 minutes ago, pagallim said:

More a case of other Embassies seeking further clarification from Immigration before making their own announcement, nothing to do with UK Embassy staffing.   Their system of requesting letters on-line from around a year or so ago is pretty slick.

I will write an Email to the German embassy tomorrow and get the wife to ring up immigration (kap choeng) I'll let you all know what comes of it.

[scottiejohn]

3 hours ago, Kaoboi Bebobp said:

 

I'm a little unsure which income you are talking about. Is it a CPP/OAS income proof? Or investment income proof? Or company pension proof.

 

I have a company pension. The company sends me a letter, which the embassy certifies after I swear the usual oath. They then use a form letter with embassy seal. I've never used the CPP/OAS proof yet, so it may have a different requirement, such that the embassy has to search your federal pension records.

 

Please explain your situation. Thanks. 

This is a UK pension/funding thread.  What does  your incomprehensible comment CPP/OAS income proof add to it?

Can we let the Brits stay on track with their comments.

[blackhorse]

No, what Immigration are saying is that income verification letters issued by an Embassy are no longer acceptable.   My understanding is that Immigration now require proof of either 4/800,000 baht on deposit for the required period, or minimum 40/65,000 baht/month being credited to a Thai account, neither of which any Embassy could provide verification for, only your bank could do that.   My question would be, for what period would you have to show the monthly credit for, i.e. the previous 12 months, or as in the case of the lump sum, 3 months.

Incorrect. Go back and read it, I did and changed my view about oz embassy.


"The British Embassy Bangkok is stopping the certification of income letters because it is unable to fulfil the Thai authorities’ requirements to verify the income of British Nationals."

A wishy washy statement.

What they should have said is the thai authorities have BANNED income letters but that hasn't happened.

If I was brit I would be calling the embassy demanding a proper explanation

[watcharacters]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

 

Some people may be forced to simply pull up stakes and have a fire sale.

[yang123]

21 minutes ago, blorg said:

Chiang Mai immigration no longer accept US income affidavits without supporting documentation.

What supporting documents does CM ask for?

[Peterw42]

If immigration or consulates start asking for bank statements to show income. It would need to be for the previous 12 months. So starting this month, on the last day of the month take 65k out of the ATM, on the first day of next month deposit it at the bank, 12 months from now you can show an income of 65k every month. There is no definition of what is income, it can be cash, cheque, trans from a mates account etc.

It would probably work out great for guys with no money, just keep withdrawing and depositing the same 65k.

Better still, two friends can bounce the same 65k back and forward between their accounts.

[overherebc]

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

My two P60’s evidence my income.

 

 

I shall wait to see if Thai immigration understands that.

My thinking is the same. 

Two private pensions that send me yearly statements on income and UK tax on those payments. The only fly in the oinment is the Gov' pension, will they provide that if I request it?

[Jingthing]

Possibly the most bizarre aspect of this ill conceived announcement from the British embassy is their proclamation that Brits can still use the income method without getting income LETTERS, which they will no longer provide. Who are they to announce policy changes from Thai immigration? I have never heard of anyone getting an income based extension without an income letter. More backup evidence MIGHT be required from immigration but the LETTER has always been a definite requirement. Maybe this will reflect an actual change in immigration policy about that but it seems obvious to me the entity to announce what would be a major change is Thai immigration, not the British embassy. 

[Thaidream]

7 minutes ago, blorg said:

ream it's going to be down to what your specific immigration office wants when you go for the extension. You'll either have it or not have it, but I would not presume they will take printouts of foreign online banking showing ATM withdrawals in Thailand. I'd suggest you find out for sure 100% what they will need to do the monthly income route at least three months in advance, so you have time to "season" the 800k if necessary. If you are rejected for an extension on the basis of monthly income, you can't just bring in 800k on the spot, it has to be there for several months, and in the meantime you will need to leave Thailand. So make sure you find out in advance what they will take.

I would agree that this would be the case- but unless the Police order is changed- one can still show monthly income - up to the 400/800K.  The question is -how do you prove it without the Embassy Letter- and why would anyone have to have the full amount in a Thai bank when one can show any of the following-

 

Thai ATM receipts showing  40/65K

Letterhead letters from Pension /Government

Monthly Foreign Bank  statements showing amounts in and amounts out with the debits showing made in Thailand.

 

If they are demanding that the monthly income amount be deposited in a Thai Bank-  one could take the money out  of a foreign bank; then deposit in a Thai Bank and then live off the amount each month.

 

What ever they decide is workable-  I am sure some offices will want more paperwork than others. I am also quite surprised that if Thai Immigration order this change- why haven't they announced it . Many people will need to open accounts- transfer money etc to meet the season requirements.

[blorg]

11 minutes ago, yang123 said:

What supporting documents does CM ask for?

I'm not 100% sure what they will take. But I have seen reports from Americans who have got their retirement extensions on the basis of income after they were able to show bank statements (I THINK US ones, not Thai ones) backing up what they declared in the affadavit. Those that only had the embassy affidavit were refused.

Edited October 8, 2018 by blorg

[Joe Mcseismic]

1 minute ago, Peterw42 said:

If immigration or consulates start asking for bank statements to show income. It would need to be for the previous 12 months. So starting this month, on the last day of the month take 65k out of the ATM, on the first day of next month deposit it at the bank, 12 months from now you can show an income of 65k every month. There is no definition of what is income, it can be cash, cheque, trans from a mates account etc.

It would probably work out great for guys with no money, just keep withdrawing and depositing the same 65k.

Better still, two friends can bounce the same 65k back and forward between their accounts.

This all may lead to proof needed to show the money comes from overseas.

A retiree has no business receiving money from within Thailand as they are not allowed to work. Rental income might be a bit of a grey area.

[Jingthing]

4 hours ago, sqwakvfr said:

I’m going to the US Consulate next week to get my Income Affidavit.  Of course the US never certifies anything(it is just an Affirmation Under Oath). I will ask if the US Consulate has plans to terminate this sevice?  In my case the 800K deposit is a no-go and direct depositing my pension into any Foreign Banks is also a no-go.  Maybe my time in LOS is coming to end soon?  

Hi there. 

Well I assume you're getting that pension direct deposited to U.S. bank account. You could do monthly SWIFT wires or transferwise transfers to Thailand if it turns out this bring the money to Thailand monthly thing actually become real for all of us that aren't using the 800K in bank method. Stay tuned. 

[scottiejohn]

5 minutes ago, watcharacters said:

 

Some people may be forced to simply pull up stakes and have a fire sale.

GOOD if that was because they did not meet the already excising rules to stay here anyway

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, overherebc said:

My thinking is the same. 

Two private pensions that send me yearly statements on income and UK tax on those payments. The only fly in the oinment is the Gov' pension, will they provide that if I request it?

 

 

You can certainly get a letter from DWP confirming the amount of your pension.

 

I believe that the issue will be the ability/illingness of Thai Immigration to understand/accept such evidence.