BREAKING NEWS British Embassy statement on income letters: Officials knew about problems in May and say that US nationals will also be affected

[Issanjohn]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

John, I already sent my 3rd email to ACS some hours ago after you received your second response from them. I haven't received any response to MY latest email asking them to resolve the disparities.

 

Part of the problem is, when you or I send them an email and they reply, we have no way of knowing whether the same person or a different person is responding, and who that is. The "AB" signature has been the same, but no way to know if that ties to a particular person or is just some code they use.

 

Thanks for continuing to try to get some clarity from ACS.

 

Oh also it’s okay I just wanted to try to get as many people as possible contacting our embassy to make sure that they don’t try to pull this same crap that the British Embassy is pulling several months down the road or something.  So far it appears that our US Embassy has more common sense than the British Embassy but you never know. I just wanted to get as many people as possible on their ass.  I have another friend who’s also retired military in Korat who’s a 100% disabled vet who’s really worried about any potential changes and I’m trying to reassure him with what the embassy has told me.  So far I’ve only received good news from the United States Embassy.  I hope it gets sorted out for the Brits as well that really sucks for them.  If I were a British citizen I’d be absolutely livid with the British Embassy.  My neighbor is British I’m gonna ask him what he thinks about it and what he plans on doing about it.  The Brits need to be complaining to their Embassador seriously because that’s what I’d be doing!!!  

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

It's already been mentioned a number of times. The British embassy is one of the few or perhaps the only one that provides a letter after verification of income which makes them liable

The embassy include a waiver on liability in the letter.

[Skeptic7]

38 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

transferwise which is rapidly gaining in popularity does not show up as foreign transfer. 

Hey Jing...had a transfer from USA arrive yesterday using Transferwise and just looked at it on Bangkok Bank mobile app. Shows as International Transfer. 

[Issanjohn]

4 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

It's already been mentioned a number of times. The British embassy is one of the few or perhaps the only one that provides a letter after verification of income which makes them liable

Most of the others use a different system which requires the applicant to write their own letter and the embassy just witnesses the signature. Zero liability

The United States Embassy requires us to swear under oath and under the penalty of purgery on our proof of income affidavits and then they notarize the document so technically it’s a felony crime to lie on a United States proof of income affidavit. If I have to show real proof of income I don’t care I’ve got it.  

[Jingthing]

30 minutes ago, chickenslegs said:

Shows up as Foreign T/T on my Bangkok Bank statement and in the bank book.

That's good to hear but haven't others reported that their transfers are coded as domestic?

Edited October 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[flipside555]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

That's good to hear but haven't others reported that their transfers are coded as domestic?

Yes. It seems to depend on the bank. 

[blackhorse]

The embassy include a waiver on liability in the letter.

Would that waiver be any good in a courtroom?

Lots of companies add waivers to their contracts that mean nothing in court.

 

Surely best to use prevention and not be liable in the first place eg what that rest have done

 

[sambum]

2 hours ago, Spidey said:

Apply for your letter now. It's valid for 6 months.

Yes I know - THAT's what it says in the rules - not what the local Immigration Officer says!

[DJ54]

10 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

Oh also it’s okay I just wanted to try to get as many people as possible contacting our embassy to make sure that they don’t try to pull this same crap that the British Embassy is pulling several months down the road or something.  So far it appears that our US Embassy has more common sense than the British Embassy but you never know. I just wanted to get as many people as possible on their ass.  I have another friend who’s also retired military in Korat who’s a 100% disabled vet who’s really worried about any potential changes and I’m trying to reassure him with what the embassy has told me.  So far I’ve only received good news from the United States Embassy.  I hope it gets sorted out for the Brits as well that really sucks for them.  If I were a British citizen I’d be absolutely livid with the British Embassy.  My neighbor is British I’m gonna ask him what he thinks about it and what he plans on doing about it.  The Brits need to be complaining to their Embassador seriously because that’s what I’d be doing!!!  

Thanks to all for your efforts appreciate the updates.

 

I’ve a direct email for officer at the embassy that helped out within their allowed guidelines. Had to do with POA motorization that Controller Fl. USA wouldn’t accept. Funny thing happened Embassy asked you 

wrotethe POI....the controller. It was finally accepted. 

[DJ54]

Is it possible to contact the Thai authorities that are handling this issue ? Posssibly get together some signatures of a few to submit (off forum) asking will provisions be made for married persons that have been supporting their Thai families.

 

Thinking of angles that might help those who are just under the requirements.

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, DJ54 said:

Is it possible to contact the Thai authorities that are handling this issue ? Posssibly get together some signatures of a few to submit (off forum) asking will provisions be made for married persons that have been supporting their Thai families.

 

Thinking of angles that might help those who are just under the requirements.

It's not possible because no one is dealing with this issue. It's a British Embassy issue, the Thai authorities are just sitting back and laughing.

Edited October 11, 2018 by Spidey

[EricTh]

37 minutes ago, Issanjohn said:

The United States Embassy requires us to swear under oath and under the penalty of purgery on our proof of income affidavits and then they notarize the document so technically it’s a felony crime to lie on a United States proof of income affidavit. If I have to show real proof of income I don’t care I’ve got it.  

 

So how many has been hauled to court for lying?

 

Do they really bother?

 

[CharlieH]

Off topic posts renoved and several referring to moderation 

 

10) Do not discuss moderation publicly in the open forum; this includes individual actions, and specific or general policies and issues. You may send a PM to a moderator to discuss individual actions or email support (at) thaivisa.com to discuss moderation policy.

You will not block contact with moderators or administrators. Doing so will result in suspension.

[ubonjoe]

Several inflammatory, baiting and bickering posts have been removed. Time to end it or formal warning will be given.

[Spidey]

37 minutes ago, blackhorse said:

Would that waiver be any good in a courtroom?

Lots of companies add waivers to their contracts that mean nothing in court.

 

Surely best to use prevention and not be liable in the first place eg what that rest have done

 

Well I'd certainly be happy with that but I don't think that the British Embassy would. It would defeat the object of the exercise.

[blackhorse]

Well I'd certainly be happy with that but I don't think that the British Embassy would. It would defeat the object of the exercise.

There superiority complex would have them believe the lowly thais would never challenge them.

[imaderbyfan]

Anyway......what do you all reckon my chances of getting an income based Extension to my Visa in January, are?

Back on topic.

See what I did there?

[marcusarelus]

38 minutes ago, DJ54 said:

Thanks to all for your efforts appreciate the updates.

 

I’ve a direct email for officer at the embassy that helped out within their allowed guidelines. Had to do with POA motorization that Controller Fl. USA wouldn’t accept. Funny thing happened Embassy asked you  

wrotethe POI....the controller. It was finally accepted. 

What is a POA/POI motorization? What nationality are you?

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, imaderbyfan said:

Anyway......what do you all reckon my chances of getting an income based Extension to my Visa in January, are?

Back on topic.

See what I did there?

100%, just apply for your letter now. Mines due at Christmas and I applied for mine yesterday.

 

Mind you I'd rate your chances of being on Thai Visa in January at much less, maybe 0%.

 

See what I did there? ????

Edited October 11, 2018 by Spidey

[imaderbyfan]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

100%, just apply for your letter now. Mines due at Christmas and I applied for mine yesterday.

Thank you Spidey for that on topic answer.....

I will do as you suggest......

 

[JerseytoBKK]

11 hours ago, dontoearth said:

    You are not familiar with my individual case.  And not so very informed about the final payouts.  The estimator will tell you that it is not accurate.  You need to check in before retirement with a counselor.  I was penalized by the WEP among other things. You don't get the automatic raise of 8% every year anymore if you are not still working and paying in to the system between 62-70.   Are you from the US?  I did use two years of the maximum social security website run by the best selling author with just that book title for my planning.  It helped me find out I was getting screwed because of my government pension and desire not to work between 62 and 70.   Things the estimator doesn't really account for very well. 

    It would be much better for me if the things you are talking about were true.

    I am happy enough with the things worked out.  I feel fine.

    I was born in 1956.  Every 10 years the goal post are moved further down the field.   I can't imagine what the millennial generation will get from this system.

    

   

Yes, I'm in the US and used the estimator probably over a hundred times during the 4 years leading up to my retirement. I specifically looked at various scenarios such as delaying claiming benefits even after I stopped working and they all showed that benefits keep increasing but not as high as if you keep working.  If you were born in 1956, you could have started to figure out your retirement amount using this worksheet: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10070.pdf. Then you could have found this info to discover how the monthly number gets translated to your benefit amount:  

https://www.fool.com/retirement/2018/05/26/heres-how-the-social-security-retirement-benefit-f.aspx. 

 

To figure out how the WEP affects your payout, see this: https://www.ssa.gov/pubs/EN-05-10045.pdf. I didn't run any numbers using WEP calculations because I like most people aren't receiving government pensions so WEP doesn't effect me. 

 

There's no "you don't get the automatic raise of 8% every year anymore if you are not still working and paying in to the system between 62-70. " You were penalized with a over a 25% reduction by claiming early. If you waited until after 66 and 2 months, then you would have earned the 8% increase until 70 but in your case, part of it would have been offset by WEP. 

 

Your decision to claim benefits at 62 might have been the best choice for you. I was going to claim at 62 because after extensive numbers crunching it made more sense. Until my situation changed and then it made more financial sense to claim at 64. Lots of factors go into a decision of when it's best to claim and in the end, luck plays a part also.

 

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Skeptic7 said:

Hey Jing...had a transfer from USA arrive yesterday using Transferwise and just looked at it on Bangkok Bank mobile app. Shows as International Transfer. 

 

My brain is addled after the past two days of income affidavits.... But I THOUGHT (not sure) I'd seen other people posting on Transferwise transactions saying they were showing up on the Thai bank end as domestic deposits. But I think those comments were based on what people were seeing in regular online banking, not the mobile apps. For sure, @Pib is our resident expert on Transferwise transactions, especially from the U.S.

[ukrules]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's good to hear but haven't others reported that their transfers are coded as domestic?

Yes, they have. I would imagine it depends on how much money they have available and where it is.

 

Maybe they do direct international transfers when funds are low in the recipient country....

[Tanoshi]

22 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

My brain is addled after the past two days of income affidavits.... But I THOUGHT (not sure) I'd seen other people posting on Transferwise transactions saying they were showing up on the Thai bank end as domestic deposits. But I think those comments were based on what people were seeing in regular online banking, not the mobile apps. For sure, @Pib is our resident expert on Transferwise transactions, especially from the U.S.

I've used Transferwise many times for transfers from the UK.

Always show in my Bangkok Bank passbook as FTT transfers.

Foreign Transfer Transactions.

[chickenslegs]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's good to hear but haven't others reported that their transfers are coded as domestic?

So much confusion.

 

I recall reading that some people have not been able to obtain their Foreign Exchange Transaction form (Thor Tor 3) when using Transferwise to bring in money for a condo purchase. I don't know which banks or which home countries were involved.

 

All I can say with certainty is that my Bangkok Bank book and bank statements show all my Transferwise transactions from my UK bank (each month for over 2 years) as Foreign T/T.

 

Now, if Thai Immigration will accept that as proof of income (without the British Embassy letter) I'm home and dry.

Edited October 11, 2018 by chickenslegs
typos

[sambum]

5 hours ago, Jingthing said:

That's an easy one. No! If they switch to a system of required monthly transfers to do an income method application there is no way there would be seasoning requirements with on any minimum balance. That would be crazy.

Of course the bank account methods require money seasoning.

Its a much better question to ask about how many months back for the transfers.


Not to mention transferwise which is rapidly gaining in popularity does not show up as foreign transfer.

So if they require foreign transfers even more of a problem for many.

Not about the income being fake. About mechanical transfer and personal money management issues.

If it's all year for transfers that's going to be very onerous for many. I predict a significant percentage of people would either switch to the 800k method or leave Thailand.

I think they need to think long and hard about requiring such transfers unless they really do want to shake out a huge chunk of us not because we can't afford to live here but because they've made the rules too unreasonable and too annoying.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Thank you for your answer, but I didn't think "That's an easy one." or I wouldn't have asked it! Also "with on any minimum balance." ???

 

There is nothing that I have read to say that the 65,000 baht a month needs "seasoned", but I do agree that it would make sense for it to be in line with the 800,000 baht a year requirement. 

 

However, I think that what they should be concerned about is solving the problem for the people who do have that kind of income annually, but have now had the means of proving it taken away from them by their seemingly uncaring Embassy, and instead turn their attention to the people that don't have that kind of income, and are managing to get to stay by the use of fraudulent or corrupt means. (OK it has been mentioned about these agencies also being targeted, but going by past experience, money talks and no doubt there will already be "cunning plans" ready to be put into operation!)

 

However, at the end of the day "TIT" - This Is Thailand it is their country, and no doubt, if they don't resolve the problem, and Brit pensioners start leaving in droves because they don't have immediate access to 800,000 baht that they can forget about for 3 months, and if current reports that the American Embassy is about to follow suit, then the TAT (Tourist Authority of Thailand) will have it covered by saying that the tourist figures have gone up by 12% more than last year!

Edited October 11, 2018 by sambum

[sambum]

3 hours ago, blackhorse said:

3 hours ago, Spidey said:

Well I'd certainly be happy with that but I don't think that the British Embassy would. It would defeat the object of the exercise.

There superiority complex would have them believe the lowly thais would never challenge them.

 

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

What is a POA/POI motorization? What nationality are you?

FYI you have just touched upon one of my pet hates!

[smedly]

Until the Thai authorities have sorted out some method to affirm income regardless of Nationality then the British Embassy had no right to withdraw this facility, they could easily have adopted the same method as Affidavit until this is all cleared up

 

This whole thing is quite frankly a cluster (deleted) but to be expected in Thailand

 

I have never used an income method to qualify for a 12 month extension but would like the option to remain open.

 

There are a lot of people that rely on this method to qualify for their retirement extensions, the British Embassy should not have withdrawn this facility until something solid was in place to replace it

 

Some dummy in the BE has made this decision without actually putting any thought into it or considered the impact for a lot of people

 

Equally the whole process of income verification has been flawed for years across the board, it is and has been quite frankly a joke and open to abuse  

[SheungWan]

19 hours ago, EVENKEEL said:

For those of us who have kids in Thailand and go back to US yearly, it seems a straight Non-O multiple entry is the way to go, every 3 mos, do a border crossing. I'm not retired yet but will be so next year and all this is quite confusing.

One thing doesn't make sense...……….. If the 800,000 is required to be deposited into Thai bank, then why isn't the monthly deposit also required to be deposited into Thai Bank. I hear what is being said, but still don't understand the logic.

The non-O makes sense for many of those who do return, but there are others who do not want (for them) the hassle of the 3 month border crossing. They would like to avoid that. Most I know either use the 800k or the agency route. Up to them. Now about that logic thing...

[SheungWan]

56 minutes ago, smedly said:

Until the Thai authorities have sorted out some method to affirm income regardless of Nationality then the British Embassy had no right to withdraw this facility, they could easily have adopted the same method as Affidavit until this is all cleared up

This whole thing is quite frankly a cluster (deleted) but to be expected in Thailand

I have never used an income method to qualify for a 12 month extension but would like the option to remain open.

There are a lot of people that rely on this method to qualify for their retirement extensions, the British Embassy should not have withdrawn this facility until something solid was in place to replace it

Some dummy in the BE has made this decision without actually putting any thought into it or considered the impact for a lot of people

Equally the whole process of income verification has been flawed for years across the board, it is and has been quite frankly a joke and open to abuse  

I'm afraid that the status quo is not its own justification. The British Embassy obviously has the right and has issued a statement accordingly. Those that have used the income facility (not the same as rely) have alternative pathways. That they would prefer the status quo ante, well things change.