UK Embassy Letters - The Way Forward.

[Thailand]

How about a tame Thai lawyer attached to each immigration office to do statutory declarations and offer "agency" services,could be another nice little earner for immigration.

 

[Tanoshi]

18 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Agree completely- The results of the negotiation between BE and Thai Imm should be that Thai Imm accepts the following methods to prove Income of 65K/40K

 

1.  Letters from Pension provider or other provider showing amount deposited each month

2.  Foreign Bank Statement showing same amounts as above direct deposited to an account- showing Amount , date, and originator- Amounts should match the letters in 1 (If Bank shows  location of debits as Thailand- this page included)

3.  If Transfer to a Thai Bank- show  Thai Bank statement/  If  not transferred to Thai Bank- show foreign debit cards used to access funds and/or Thai ATM slips representing a few months withdrawals

4.  If depositing 65K/40K per month into a Thai Bank by cash- show Thai bank book as proof.

1 & 2. Immigration won't directly accept foreign income documents, which is why they were sent to the BE to justify the Income letter.

 

3 & 4. Not going to happen.

Immigration are not going to change the method of proving income just for one nationality.

It's not their problem as far as their concerned.

 

After July the Brits will have to show 400 or 800K funds deposited in a Thai bank, end of.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Tanoshi

[wgdanson]

2 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Mine (from mid 2018) says income. 

Mine from yesterday says monthly PENSIONS....and PENSIONS totalling GBP XXX. Last year's said PENSIONS AND INCOME........but PENSIONS totalling GBP XXX. And here's me thinking that it was a standardised letter. Maybe the BE staff actually DO type them up.

[Thaidream]

22 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

& 2. Immigration won't directly accept foreign income documents, which is why they were sent to the BE to justify the Income letter.

Not Correct - they have accepted mine when they asked me for proof of income and there have been other reports of them accepting  pension letters as proof.  If they have accepted this as added proof-there is no reason they actually need the letter and that is why there needs to be a negotiated solution.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Not Correct - they have accepted mine when they asked me for proof of income and there have been other reports of them accepting  pension letters as proof. 

Correct if you don't already have a document from your embassy to prove your income. The will only accept them as back up proof to the document from the embassy that you presented,

[Thaidream]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Correct if you don't already have a document from your embassy to prove your income. The will only accept them as back up proof to the document from the embassy that you presented,

Very True- when I was asked I had the letter and so has every other person who was asked for added proof. I was attempting to try and indicate that if they accept letters etc as added proof- they could hopefully be 'convinced' to accept it as primary proof if no BE letter. Whether they will or not remains to be seen

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Very True- when I was asked I had the letter and so has every other person who was asked for added proof. I was attempting to try and indicate that if they accept letters etc as added proof- they could hopefully be 'convinced' to accept it as primary proof if no BE letter. Whether they will or not remains to be seen

There's just one problem I can see with that, and it is that my UK civil service pension P60 letter and my original state pension letter, although signed, are just copies of originals. I don't think I've ever had an original signed letter from my pension provider. If immigration agreed to accept pension letters, would they accept the copies which we get sent, or would we have to go begging our providers for originals? Taking into account the usual lack of enthusiasm from my provider and the inefficiency of the postal service in my area, I don't give much for my chances.

I was asked several years ago to produce them as secondary proof to the letter and they were accepted.

[jesimps]

4 hours ago, lamyai3 said:

Mine (from mid 2018) says income. 

The relevant para in mine says:

 

Quote:   Mr Expat has also stated that he receives monthly pensions totalling GBP XXXX and has shown to us a statement from Civil Service Pensions and a letter from the Pension Service stating that he receives pensions totalling GBP XXXXX per annum. Unquote.

[Thaidream]

5 minutes ago, jesimps said:

I was asked several years ago to produce them as secondary proof to the letter and they were accepted.

I also presented copies=  and since I have direct deposit to a US bank- I provided bank statement showing same amount that was on income letters plus bank statement showed many debits in Thailand.  Thai accepted all.  I now have started saving receipts from Thai ATMS. 

[Andycoops]

My current marriage extn expires in December so I'll get the last knockings from the BE letter.

As of this month I have been making cash deposits into my Thai bank so as to have a trail of income for the future.

I also intend to make a 40k monthly deposit into my Thai bank starting in the new year.

I have sent my enquiry to the BE as the OP requested. 

We should show solidarity on this issue in my opinion to show the strength of feeling about how badly this has been handled so far.

[Lancelot01]

22 hours ago, tgeezer said:

The country is on its uppers, I should think that the embassy would want to continue writing letters if only to secure their continued employment.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

And income. GBP50 per letter X number of applicants.

[Expattaff1308]

7 minutes ago, Lancelot01 said:

And income. GBP50 per letter X number of applicants.

BE stated 3000 asking for a letter x £52 = £156,000 equating to 6,630,000 THB at 42.5 Baht to the £

[evadgib]

Just a thought...

 

[OJAS]

6 hours ago, Tanoshi said:

After July the Brits will have to show 400 or 800K funds deposited in a Thai bank, end of.

Agreed. And to meet seasoning requirements the 800k will need to have been deposited in the account by no later than 3 months previously, or the 400k by no later that 2 months previously - i.e. by as soon as March in some retirement extensions cases, or April in some marriage extension cases (although the latter could be stretched to June in certain instances through a one-off 60-day extension). 

[NanLaew]

7 hours ago, wgdanson said:

Mine from yesterday says monthly PENSIONS....and PENSIONS totalling GBP XXX. Last year's said PENSIONS AND INCOME........but PENSIONS totalling GBP XXX. And here's me thinking that it was a standardised letter. Maybe the BE staff actually DO type them up.

The letters do appear to individually typed to order. Since I am not getting a pension (yet) my submissions have always been very easy; a UK bank account with 4 quarterly deposits to easily meet the required equivalent income to qualify.

 

From your earlier post, you maybe supply proof of pension and additional income information and despite your best, most accurate efforts on filling in the spreadsheet (I'll have to take your word on that since I truly don't know you from Adam), you are possibly the victim of the less ardent pencil-pusher behind the scenes at the BE's income letter validation (bit not verification) team.*

 

Accordingly, I hereby publicly withdraw the earlier suggestion that your head's up your bum.

 

* Since it's quite possible that the FCO/BE had already outsourced this like everything else, there's a distinct chance that the downturn of backpackers on KSR after the city managers decided to clean it up has resulted in not enough native English speakers (and readers and writers) to churn out these 'pension letters'.

[NanLaew]

52 minutes ago, OJAS said:

Agreed. And to meet seasoning requirements the 800k will need to have been deposited in the account by no later than 3 months previously, or the 400k by no later that 2 months previously - i.e. by as soon as March in some retirement extensions cases, or April in some marriage extension cases (although the latter could be stretched to June in certain instances through a one-off 60-day extension). 

Since I am at work outside LOS until maybe the first week of Jan and my RetExt is due end of January, I had enough time to gather the paperwork and file another on-time extension. With the letter issuance stopping late December, unless I do some clever mail redirecting, I could miss the boat.

 

I do have an option by being married to a local lass of slipping over to Savannakhet about a month after I get home and getting the 1-year multi-entry O visa. Jumping in and out of the country isn't an issue for me. If work slows down or I pull the pin, I could restart the RetExt or MarExt procedure but then I think I may be facing the added oversight at RTE's to get that first-off Non-O visa?

 

The ones that I think may be the most upset are the ones already on the Thai PR path where I understand one has to show x amount of years of consecutive stays typically enabled by qualifying for extensions? I know if this was the last extension that I needed to complete that hurdle, I would be royally pissed off.

Edited October 21, 2018 by NanLaew

[yang123]

https://www.gov.uk/government/organisations/foreign-commonwealth-office/about/complaints-procedure

 

This has a section for complaints about Consular Services ....

[wgdanson]

37 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

The letters do appear to individually typed to order. Since I am not getting a pension (yet) my submissions have always been very easy; a UK bank account with 4 quarterly deposits to easily meet the required equivalent income to qualify.

 

From your earlier post, you maybe supply proof of pension and additional income information and despite your best, most accurate efforts on filling in the spreadsheet (I'll have to take your word on that since I truly don't know you from Adam), you are possibly the victim of the less ardent pencil-pusher behind the scenes at the BE's income letter validation (bit not verification) team.*

 

Accordingly, I hereby publicly withdraw the earlier suggestion that your head's up your bum.

 

* Since it's quite possible that the FCO/BE had already outsourced this like everything else, there's a distinct chance that the downturn of backpackers on KSR after the city managers decided to clean it up has resulted in not enough native English speakers (and readers and writers) to churn out these 'pension letters'.

I thnk you Sir, and accept your 'apology'. In my case, I simple emailed copies of my pdf bank statements, no other information from DWP or private pension people as I never get anything. But who cares now, I have my letter ready for December. Then I'll start thinking about next year. Cheers.

[Tanoshi]

3 hours ago, evadgib said:

Just a thought...

 

 

How many even know !!! 

 

To many move to a foreign Country and bury their head in the sand, or a bottle of Leo, when it comes to bureaucracy.

Inevitably, they wait to be told, rather than find out for themselves.

[Joe Mcseismic]

9 hours ago, Thaidream said:

Not Correct - they have accepted mine when they asked me for proof of income and there have been other reports of them accepting  pension letters as proof.  If they have accepted this as added proof-there is no reason they actually need the letter and that is why there needs to be a negotiated solution.

Is this with, or without the BE letter?

[Thaidream]

I had the Embassy Letter- They asked for proof- It was several years ago at  Bangkok

[CharlieH]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I had the Embassy Letter- They asked for proof- It was several years ago at  Bangkok

And the flip side, I have never ever been asked for proof, just the letter.

 

As said many times, rarely any consistency here. ????

[baansgr]

On 10/20/2018 at 10:54 AM, Esso49 said:

Already done that and asked for a transcript of all discussions, emails on this subject between BE and Thai immigration.  Requested under the FOI act and the FCO have replied advising they will respond within 20 days. 15 days remaining.  Of course that's working days so will post relevant info once received.

 

Only once that has been disclosed will we know the truth regarding discussions between these 2 parties on the matter,

 

I hope this thread remains as your intent for those who rely upon certificate of income letters and not side tracked by others again

For obvious reasons Im suprised the FCO come under the FOI at such a short date. Be interesting to see whats made available.

[Maestro]

2 hours ago, NanLaew said:

...my submissions have always been very easy; a UK bank account with 4 quarterly deposits to easily meet the required equivalent income to qualify...

Are you saying that after you gave the British embassy evidence of deposits into your bank account and nothing else, the embassy gave you a letter saying that they saw evidence of income?

[CharlieH]

10 minutes ago, Maestro said:

Are you saying that after you gave the British embassy evidence of deposits into your bank account and nothing else, the embassy gave you a letter saying that they saw evidence of income?

Yes, me too ! the letter stated "demonstrated an income of" and that was it , nothing else given, I gave just a few months statements in my case, they averaged then x 12 for annual income total.

[tso310]

58 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

 

How many even know !!! 

 

To many move to a foreign Country and bury their head in the sand, or a bottle of Leo, when it comes to bureaucracy.

Inevitably, they wait to be told, rather than find out for themselves.

I have talked to about a dozen fellow Brits and none were aware of what was happening. In fact quite a few did not know what their actual visa type was. 

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, Maestro said:

Are you saying that after you gave the British embassy evidence of deposits into your bank account and nothing else, the embassy gave you a letter saying that they saw evidence of income?

Yes. I fill in the simple, downloaded 'spreadsheet' they provide, include the 4 bank statements where my spreadsheet numbers come from and they issue the letter. It basically says 'Mr NL claims income of bla bla bla' and 'Mr NL showed statements from ABC Bank showing bla bla bla.' That's the thrust of the income letter and has been that way for as long I have been extending. Last January was my 7th successive extension.

[NanLaew]

1 hour ago, CharlieH said:

And the flip side, I have never ever been asked for proof, just the letter.

 

As said many times, rarely any consistency here. ????

Yes, I think maybe some are grasping at straws and when people say that their IO has asked to see the proof, they are mistaking this as being evidence that IO's will accept the proof without the BE letter.

 

The fact is that IO's have the right to request to see the proof that was 'verified' by the BE but very few do.

 

The other fact is that IO's will accept the BE letter and only the BE letter as the proof of income.

[evadgib]

1 hour ago, baansgr said:

For obvious reasons Im suprised the FCO come under the FOI at such a short date. Be interesting to see whats made available.

All Govt Depts are subject to FoI legislation.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, NanLaew said:

Yes, I think maybe some are grasping at straws and when people say that their IO has asked to see the proof, they are mistaking this as being evidence that IO's will accept the proof without the BE letter.

 

The fact is that IO's have the right to request to see the proof that was 'verified' by the BE but very few do.

 

The other fact is that IO's will accept the BE letter and only the BE letter as the proof of income.

Agree completely= as of this date- without the Embassy Letter- even with the 'proof' the IO will not proceed.  The BE has opened a can of worms and they need to find a way to either relent; issue a stay of execution or at the very least- sit down with Thai Imm to work out how citizens can obtain an income based extension without an Embassy Letter. IMHO a stay of execution is the way too proceed- negotiations in Thailand do not happen quickly . BE is not providing any information except a standard reply message. Citizens want answers. BE needs to be held accountable.  Why do other BE Embassies - Hanoi and Cambodia issue Stat Decs and BE Bangkok says they cannot.