UK Embassy Letters - The Way Forward.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

They state a annual income on the letter but do not require 12 months of proof. They convert a proven monthly income to one year.

Many people only present bank statements for 2 or 3 months showing the income going into a bank.

You must be dealing with a different British Embassy. The application form I complete states quite clearly to enter the "Yearly Amount", and the letter they send out states both annual income and monthly income.

If you are suggesting that the BE has been issuing letters confirming an annual income based on 2/3 months then it is no wonder the Thai authorities have taken them to task.

[ubonjoe]

3 minutes ago, sandyf said:

You must be dealing with a different British Embassy. The application form I complete states quite clearly to enter the "Yearly Amount", and the letter they send out states both annual income and monthly income.

If you are suggesting that the BE has been issuing letters confirming an annual income based on 2/3 months then it is no wonder the Thai authorities have taken them to task.

I don't deal with any UK embassy since I am not from there.

You enter the yearly amount yourself on the application form after doing the calculation yourself.

You have not read all the topics and posts I have about getting a income letter discussing the number of months needed for bank statements or other proof. I can assure they have and still are accepting statements for 2 or 3 months.

[Thaidream]

At this point no one has accurate info on how this all happened- as the BE has not released info on exactly who caled the meeting; what exactly was asked them to; what their explanation was and if anything was negotiated.

 

The BE unilaterally stop the letter and gave a 90 day window to get it- this is not enough time for many and will cause problems- since the letter is good for 6 months- another 90 days at minimum  is necessary.   Remember, Thai Imm has changed nothing.

BE can extend the letter cut off; they can initiate an affidavit system as the BE does in Hanoi and Cambodia; they can seek an outsource service to do the letters; they can negotiate with Thai Imm to allow other evidence; they can ask their citizens to send in  ideas; they can establish a focus group to discuss the issue. 

There is plenty of ideas out there on how to handle this 

[Moonlover]

12 hours ago, offset said:

I have been told by somebody that did not know about the BE decision, that on the 31st December that the US embassy will be stopping the earning letters, and have been told by the Thai immigration that they will be able to be used for six months after that, and also bank statement will be ok for earnings related extensions which seems to be the same as the BE have stated

Would be nice to know that this is substantiated by something a little more persuasive than 'I have been told by somebody'.

 

If it is true, especially the last sentence, it is good news. But I would not accept it from 'someone who told me'. 

 

But thanks anyway.

 

ML

Edited October 23, 2018 by Moonlover

[tgeezer]

This thread has forced me to look up the Immigration website and I think that I have seen an advantage in the combination method of qualifying financially, that is that the deposit does not have to have been in the bank for any length of time. It does make it easier to see how an agent might be successful in doing extensions.

 

I was thinking of increasing my fixed account but know that if I did, my application would be rejected on the three months seasoning grounds, so I may also have an interest in seeing verification of my DWP letter.

Surely the embassy wouldn’t be adverse to verifying an official letter from a government department, especially since it is a nice little earner judging from what people say they charge. Actually I don’t see why Immigration woudn’t accept it for no charge.

 

I think like most bureaucracies, Immigration loses site of the aim of what they do. These provisions are to ensure that people can support themselves without working, yet people are often turned away when they shouldn’t be. The rules are set down by the Chief of Police or his delegate and in individual cases they need not be applied. Agents working on behalf of people who can obviously support themselves get extensions on far less income than the rules allow. We all know someone I am sure, who has a working wife, has a small pension plus rental income and extends through an agent. I hope that we can stop calling this corruption because it is not. Similarly in the case of the letter from the DWP immigration should not need verification from the embassy.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thaivisa Connect

 

[OJAS]

11 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

BE will not issue...... because Thai immigration wanted something ‘stronger’ than a certification.

In that case I wonder whether for the Embassy to require supporting evidence solely in the form of either our latest tax return to HMRC or P60 (if we aren’t required to provide tax returns because e.g. we don’t own property in the UK) should not have been the way forward – particularly if they were then to conduct spot checks with HMRC on, say, at least 1 in 10 applications to ensure that the evidence provided by an applicant matched the info in HMRC’s records. I would have thought it unlikely that such a checking system (based on NI numbers) would, in practice, prove unduly onerous for the Embassy to perform electronically over secure HMG networks, despite whatever claims they might initially make to the contrary.

[Pattaya46]

7 minutes ago, tgeezer said:

This thread has forced me to look up the Immigration website and I think that I have seen an advantage in the combination method of qualifying financially, that is that the deposit does not have to have been in the bank for any length of time. It does make it easier to see how an agent might be successful in doing extensions.

Part of @ubonjoe's answer on this subject in another topic : "But people were abusing the option to avoid having the money in the bank for 3 months is why most immigration offices want it to be in the bank that long now." 

[Chicken George]

On 10/20/2018 at 2:02 PM, Thaidream said:

Agree completely- The results of the negotiation between BE and Thai Imm should be that Thai Imm accepts the following methods to prove Income of 65K/40K

 

1.  Letters from Pension provider or other provider showing amount deposited each month

2.  Foreign Bank Statement showing same amounts as above direct deposited to an account- showing Amount , date, and originator- Amounts should match the letters in 1 (If Bank shows  location of debits as Thailand- this page included)

3.  If Transfer to a Thai Bank- show  Thai Bank statement/  If  not transferred to Thai Bank- show foreign debit cards used to access funds and/or Thai ATM slips representing a few months withdrawals

4.  If depositing 65K/40K per month into a Thai Bank by cash- show Thai bank book as proof.

 

If the BE can guarantee Thai Imm will accept the above- there should be no issue  with NO  Embassy Letter and  they (BE) should issue a letter in Thai/English  provided to each citizen - indicating No BE Letter can be issued but negotiation between BE and Thai Imm has resulted in Thai Imm accepting the following forms of proving income  etc, etc. signed by the  ranking BE official.  

 

The fact is that Thai Imm when presented with an Embassy Letter has accepted the above as added proof of income.

 

If BE does nothing except stop the letter- I am afraid that the result will be rather chaotic or Thai Imm will will hold the applicant responsible for not having the letter.

Number 2 is the sticking point and will never be acceptable to Thai immergration.. The fact is they cannot prove or indeed will believe they are genuine. They are too easy to falsify. 

The only thing they will accept is funds in a Thai bank account.. 

Its also prudent to say thst using a Visa agent who uses fake documents to secure a visa is to be avoided like the plague!

Possible five years in prison for doing that. 

[sandyf]

35 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't deal with any UK embassy since I am not from there.

You enter the yearly amount yourself on the application form after doing the calculation yourself.

You have not read all the topics and posts I have about getting a income letter discussing the number of months needed for bank statements or other proof. I can assure they have and still are accepting statements for 2 or 3 months.

What you think or what people do is academic, The language on the application form was quite clear on what was intended and no questions or debate should have been necessary. If the embassy took their eye off the ball then that may well have led to the current situation. Obviously there are many quite concerned about how it will change going forward.

Personally I am not concerned in the slightest, I did my first 6 years here on multi non O and it wouldn't bother me doing it again.

[offset]

1 hour ago, Moonlover said:

Would be nice to know that this is substantiated by something a little more persuasive than 'I have been told by somebody'.

 

If it is true, especially the last sentence, it is good news. But I would not accept it from 'someone who told me'. 

 

But thanks anyway.

 

ML

I do not post anything on here that I not believe to be true, I am not into bar gossip, I do believe this to be true because I know where the information come from which I cannot say on here

[Tanoshi]

16 minutes ago, offset said:

I do not post anything on here that I not believe to be true, I am not into bar gossip, I do believe this to be true because I know where the information come from which I cannot say on here

Not another CIA operative sworn to the official secrets act.    ????

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

You must be dealing with a different British Embassy. The application form I complete states quite clearly to enter the "Yearly Amount",

It clearly states Monthly and Yearly amount at the bottom.

 

They provide a 'calculating work area' because letters from your Pension providers can state the income as monthly, quarterly, or annual. Similarly supplying 3 months bank statements can show the monthly or quarterly payments to your account.

You make the calculation yourself.

[lovinglife]

Just my opinion for what it's worth - 1) Forget the petition, they won't change their mind and if what BE is saying is true there will be no need for them too. 2) This doesn't appear to be a unilateral decision by the BE so no point slagging them off, they were asked a question by TI and answered it honestly. Ending the letters is a result of this meeting and will almost certainly extend to other Nationalities as time goes forward, the current system actively encouraged corruption and most of us want to see corruption stamped out in the Kingdom. 3) A written confirmation of the requirements regarding bank statement needs to be produced as soon as possible to put those affected minds at rest, many of them have been contributing to the Thai economy for a long time and deserve better than this uncertainty.

[Thaidream]

42 minutes ago, offset said:

o not post anything on here that I not believe to be true, I am not into bar gossip, I do believe this to be true because I know where the information come from which I cannot say on here

No One is questioning your word. but there are many rumors out there. Some people have actually contacted the US Embassy and been informed there is no change for the foreseeable future and the Us Embassy Website shows no change.  Another report states the US Embassy was studying the situation.

 

If is almost the end of October- such a change if implemented would allow approx 60 days to get a letter which would be good for 6 month- certainly a very small window to work in, However, if Thai Imm would accept proof of income as  Letters of pension and overseas bank accounts- that would ease any transition.

 

There have been reports from various thai Imm offices that as of now they will want the money in the bank - if no Embassy Letter.

Until I see an official US Embassy report and  an official Thai Imm report- I will withhold any further judgement.

[Tanoshi]

3 minutes ago, lovinglife said:

3) A written confirmation of the requirements regarding bank statement needs to be produced as soon as possible to put those affected minds at rest, many of them have been contributing to the Thai economy for a long time and deserve better than this uncertainty.

Thai Immigration already publish these requirements.

Funds deposited in a Thai bank, 400K for 2 months, or 800K for 90 days.

 

Why do you think TI should change their policy regarding acceptable proof of monthly income just to accommodate the Brits.

[Tanoshi]

2 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

if Thai Imm would accept proof of income as  Letters of pension and overseas bank accounts- that would ease any transition.

That will never happen because Immigration cannot 'verify' the letters.

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Tanoshi said:

hat will never happen because Immigration cannot 'verify' the letters.

They have accepted them in the past for me when asked and for others who have posted on this forum- mostly in CM and mostly Americans.  There is no way to verify income with 100% accuracy but when you present a pension letter and back it up with a bank statement showing the exact amount of funds that are on the pension letter going into the bank in the same amount each month and then show the debits coming out in Thailand- it is pretty certain that it is accurate.

Thai Imm easily followed my explanation and understood completely what the letters and bank statement said.

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

They have accepted them in the past for me when asked and for others who have posted on this forum- mostly in CM and mostly Americans. 

No they haven't.

They were requested as additional proof to support your 'affidavit'.

Without your 'affidavit', they alone would not be acceptable as proof of income.

Edited October 23, 2018 by Tanoshi

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No they haven't.

They were requested as additional proof to support your 'affidavit'.

Without your 'affidavit', they alone would not be acceptable as proof of income.

I understand that- but  since they accept them with the letter- there is no reason why they couldn't accept them as proof at some future date when all this is sorted out. That is why - BE has a responsibility to negotiate with Thai Imm and see what they will accept.   One hopes for the best but plans for the worst. Time will tell.

[cleverman]

19 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I understand that- but  since they accept them with the letter- there is no reason why they couldn't accept them as proof at some future date when all this is sorted out. That is why - BE has a responsibility to negotiate with Thai Imm and see what they will accept.   One hopes for the best but plans for the worst. Time will tell.

Don't grasp at straws. Just wait. If you end up having to leave LOS, then ,you have to. Start anew and put your life here behind you. There will be no other options. Smell the roses. 

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, cleverman said:

Don't grasp at straws. Just wait. If you end up having to leave LOS, then ,you have to. Start anew and put your life here behind you. There will be no other options. Smell the roses. 

I have no intentions of leaving Thailand-ever- luckily I have other options to stay-  my angst is that there will be others who have to  make more sacrifices to remain and for no other reason that BE and Thai Imm cannot  sit down and find a workable compromise.  This  is a perfect example of 'A failure to communicate'.

[OJAS]

55 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

That will never happen because Immigration cannot 'verify' the letters.

True. But, as I suggested in post #204, the Embassy could, I believe, set up some electronic verification system with HMRC which might meet Immigration's requirements. It might be worth noting, in this connection, that, whilst P60's are issued by pension providers rather than HMRC, these are based on info provided by pension providers in payroll reports to HMRC:-

 

https://www.gov.uk/payroll-annual-reporting

 

And, whilst the establishment and operation of an electronic verification system would obviously involve extra expenditure for the Embassy, I am sure that the amount involved would be minimal when compared to the expense and effort involved on the Embassy's part in visiting each and every immigration office in LOS in an attempt to persuade them to accept evidence of monthly income solely on the basis of bank statements, as stated by @theoldgit in another thread earlier today - with no cast-iron certainty of 100% success at the end of the day in any event!

 

 

 

 

Edited October 23, 2018 by OJAS

[Thaidream]

2 minutes ago, OJAS said:

And, whilst the establishment and operation of an electronic verification system would obviously involve extra expenditure for the Embassy, I am sure that the amount involved would be minimal when compared to the expense and effort involved on the Embassy's part in visiting each and every immigration office in LOS in an attempt to persuade them to accept evidence of monthly income solely on the basis of bank statements, as stated by @theoldgit in another thread earlier today - with no cast-iron certainty of 100% success at the end of the day in any event!

Yes= another example of what could be done to salvage the letter. It is amazing to me that  while there have been several viable ideas posted on this forum and even sent to BE, they have not communicated with their citizens except a form  email.

[lovinglife]

1 hour ago, Tanoshi said:

Thai Immigration already publish these requirements.

Funds deposited in a Thai bank, 400K for 2 months, or 800K for 90 days.

 

Why do you think TI should change their policy regarding acceptable proof of monthly income just to accommodate the Brits.

The official at The BE has said that Bkk Immigration have confirmed to them that bank statements will in the future suffice as proof. This needs to be confirmed in writing. This is not "requesting TI change their policy to accommodate Brits", this is requesting they put in writing what they have verbally assured the BE.

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, lovinglife said:

The official at The BE has said that Bkk Immigration have confirmed to them that bank statements will in the future suffice as proof. 

Please guys, stop to give false hope to other members who can only use the income option. This lady from the BE clearly didn't know what she was talking about, and Thai Immigration will not change its rules just for a few hundred people having trouble to get their letter. For now for UK retiree it's the 800k option only. Your only hope is that your Embassy agree to provide again some kind of letter accepted by TI.

[lovinglife]

8 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Please guys, stop to give false hope to other members who can only use the income option. This lady from the BE clearly didn't know what she was talking about, and Thai Immigration will not change its rules just for a few hundred people having trouble to get their letter. For now for UK retiree it's the 800k option only. Your only hope is that your Embassy agree to provide again some kind of letter accepted by TI.

She is the head of that department of the Embassy and she sounded pretty clear about it to me. BE is not asking TI to change its rules, these changes are the result of a meeting between the two in May.

 

No chance the Embassy will revert.

 

Number of letters is apparently about 3,000 per year.

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, lovinglife said:

No chance the Embassy will revert.

There is always a chance- they could also give a stay  of execution if they desired.  Citizens need to ask as it is apparent the BE has no outreach program to hear citizens needs and issues.

[Pattaya46]

6 minutes ago, lovinglife said:

Number of letters is apparently about 3,000 per year.

But how many who are not able to switch to the 400/800k? A small minority I think.

[Kadilo]

5 minutes ago, lovinglife said:

She is the head of that department of the Embassy and she sounded pretty clear about it to me. BE is not asking TI to change its rules, these changes are the result of a meeting between the two in May.

 

No chance the Embassy will revert.

 

Number of letters is apparently about 3,000 per year.

There have been emails sent to members since which indicate “an “ option going forwards of of 400/800,000 in the bank method and no monthly income method. 

I think she jumped the gun in her radio interview and appeared to be back tracking in the email sent out. These emails have been posted previously. 

[Thaidream]

1 minute ago, Pattaya46 said:

But how many who are not able to switch to the 400/800k? A small minority I think.

Possibly l but no oine knows for sure and really since Thai Imm allows income based extensions- the BE could and should have worked out a suitable alternative to allow their citizens to use this provision and this should have been done PRIOR to any announcement  There are several viable options- but BE refuses to consider them,