Just Received Some Bad News For US Citizens. No More Income Affidavits.

[willwildy]

Found verification on the Chiang Mai consulate site but it isn't all as dire as you are making it out to be. The thais are allowing people to renew/extend up to 3 months early, the consulate will be issuing affadavits till december 31st, and they are still good for 6 months. 

so that means if your current visa extension expires between now and september 2019 you can go in and get the income affadavit before the end of the year and be good for another year.

Who knows what will change between now and the time your next 1 year extension expires? 

There is also the non-o multiple entry visa which doesn't require any sort of income verification, but does require you to cross a border every 90 days. 

If all that fails put the 400k or 800k in the bank or move to Cambodia. 

[blackhorse]

Read it, my point still stands.

I'm lending the guy a FEW Thousand baht to cover a few days before his pension and all the time . If he dies I'm not going to sweat it

[peterb17]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No, it's true. To get the U.S. document (still issued for now) you just swear you are telling the truth. They don't even want to see documentation and won't look at it if you bring it.

 

Cheers.

Wow !!!!

 

And so many posts seem to be blaming the British embassy for kicking this whole thing off.

 

I find that quite unbelievable 

 

Thanks Jingthing for the info . 

 

 

[pgrahmm]

27 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

You don't have enough money to live in Thailand.  Simple.  It would not cost you $3,500 per 3 months.  It might cost you a couple of hundred.  Go home.  Thailand is too expensive and complicated for you.  Thai immigration and American embassy has made that abundantly clear. 

Haven't had any problems, retiring early, living here & raising a family.....One daughter in Uni.....

Thanks for trying to invent one for me though.....

You're a very thoughtful person......

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, peterb17 said:

Wow !!!!

 

And so many posts seem to be blaming the British embassy for kicking this whole thing off.

 

I find that quite unbelievable 

 

Thanks Jingthing for the info . 

 

 

It's not only the U.S. embassy and it's not news at all to Thai immigration.

Edited October 26, 2018 by Jingthing

[giddyup]

1 minute ago, blackhorse said:

3 minutes ago, giddyup said:

Read it, my point still stands.

I'm lending the guy a FEW Thousand baht to cover a few days before his pension and all the time . If he dies I'm not going to sweat it

I was responding to a generalisation, not your specific case.  Some who are short might need a lot more that a few thousand baht.

[Russell17au]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The ball is now in the Immigration Bureaus hand now. They are the ones that are going to have change the rules.

I can prove every cent or sating shown on the income affidavits I have done.

A bank book showing all of it coming in plus the letter I will get in December stating how much I will be getting next year and a statement in January for this years income.

No, the ball is not in the Immigration Bureaus hand at all, it is in the UK and USA Embassies hands to find some way of supplying the accepted paperwork to the Thai Immigration. Why does Thai immigration have to change the rules? Would American Immigration change the rules for Thai's? This is not a Thai immigration problem it is a UK and USA embassies problem to come up with documentation that suits Thai Immigration. It is quite simply to change to a Statutory Declaration system with you showing the proof of income to your embassy when you sign the Stat Dec. I am an Australian and I do a Stat Dec plus I present my pension income statement from the Australian government to show that what I have declared is true and correct and the pension income statement is on official Australian Government letterhead. Both the UK and the USA need to do the same system as Australia

[Redline]

I guess I wasn’t spreading rumors, as some said here on TV.  I was only trying to give a heads up

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, pgrahmm said:

Good point....The card I have for BKK bank is only good for ATM withdrawls here - not in the US.....But, it is the only bank you can tie in a with a deposit from the US......

Damned if you do, damned if you don't......

Did you google?  Union pay ATM cards in USA?  In Thailand you have to withdraw SS money from your direct deposit account at Bangkok Bank in person no ATM cards. When you withdraw the SS put it in a SCB account and use that card. 

Edited October 26, 2018 by marcusarelus

[Will27]

I wonder if this means that there will be a big increase in trips to Savannakhet for visas.

[thailand49]

3 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The ball is now in the Immigration Bureaus hand now. They are the ones that are going to have change the rules.

I can prove every cent or sating shown on the income affidavits I have done.

A bank book showing all of it coming in plus the letter I will get in December stating how much I will be getting next year and a statement in January for this years income.

I'm quoting you since you are the man when it comes to Immigration.  Although I've been a harsh critic as to what is going on I like everyone has my own take on things based on my experience with dealing with the U.S. government.

I'm not surprise the Embassy made the call but I don't believe it was because a memorandum was given to the Embassy to stop issuing the letter. I believe there are lots of thinking that the Thai government monitors conversation on ThaiVisa and certainly this is one that shouldn't be missed.  If I was a smart Thai official one could learn a lot from what is being posted?  Just this morning posting out conversation that the Embassy said " still going to issue letter cash cow " a big red flag and light on for the Embassy so I'm guessing to get it off them they came out with the cancellation?  We will never know but that is my thinking along with a number of things.

 

In my own personal situation I have no problem meeting the requirements whatever the Thai immigration want to state but I enjoy and made it a habit of getting away for a outing by using going to the Embassy as a great excuse to enjoy the night life of Bangkok and will continue since the family has no idea about the Embassy decision.

 

I hate Thai banks and just don't trust them in the U.S. we have FDIC and a much more trustworthy system I keep what I need here and just pay the Fee each month for my ATM withdraws and they are many luckily it is with Charles Schwab and I get it all back end of the month.

 

This is the big question my brother who has been here for 17 years doing extension with the income letter has more than he needs to qualify but it is all deposited in his American bank and doesn't want to change a thing gets what he needs from the ATM foreign card. He like me will only put enough money in the bank in Thailand for a number of personal reasons.  He like me has always done a retirement extension but right now his account and not enough time don't have the 800,000 baht to fill the requirement has a few million in accounts for his small kids. 

Due to the time frame he is thinking of now applying for a marriage extension since the requirement is less 400.000  what does he have to do to go from Retirement to Marriage or does he have to start from square one and get a new 60 day visa on his passport and start all over?

 

Thanks

[pagallim]

32 minutes ago, Lupatria said:

so what documents do they actually want, and where can we get it? 

The 65,000 baht question.

[David Walden]

7 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

They exist to promote trade between the countries and 'spying' functions - as far as I can make out.

 

Many/most have no interest at all in their citizens in the country - as has been made even more clear recently....

Well one thing the BE consul told us all at the Chaing Mia expats meeting a few years ago was that BE has about 130 staff.  About half of all their time is spent sorting matter is in relation to Brits dying in Thailand many without a will.  There about 68,000 Brits in Thailand, many come knowing they don't have long to live and Thailand is their last port of call.  As far as I know the BE is busy busy busy all day long there are very few slackers in that job.  Giving advice to people wishing to do trade with Thailand, issuing new passports.  If you have ever lost a passport in a foreign country you will know how much time that can take.  The Embassy staff have to be good at handling distraught people who may have had every thing stolen and ready to shoot themselves.  My wife lost her passport in Bali, while sorting this out with the Aus Consul (our turn) a man and wife with 4 kids came lost everything all stolen passport money, credit cards, the lot etc etc.  Then a young girl came in she had lost everything also pass port etc..  It was unbelievable emotion.  We had to help the Consul with the emotion, he did a magnificent job.   For my wife It took a week to sort her replacement passport out.  Much the same for all the other Legations world wide, not a holiday.  Very entertaining and informative Consul in Chaing Mia.  Real nice bloke.  Flat out all day long.

[Thaidream]

8 minutes ago, willwildy said:

ound verification on the Chiang Mai consulate site but it isn't all as dire as you are making it out to be. The thais are allowing people to renew/extend up to 3 months early, the consulate will be issuing affadavits till december 31st, and they are still good for 6 months. 

so that means if your current visa extension expires between now and september 2019 you can go in and get the income affadavit before the end of the year and be good for another year.

Who knows what will change between now and the time your next 1 year extension expires? 

There is also the non-o multiple entry visa which doesn't require any sort of income verification, but does require you to cross a border every 90 days. 

If all that fails put the 400k or 800k in the bank or move to Cambodia. 

Good news for many- can still use the letter for first 9 months of 2019 if one applies 3 months early.

[55Jay]

What a load of disingenuous, passive-aggressive nonsense from Thailand Immigration.

 

Seriously, this whole Income Letter was Thai Immigration's brain child at some point in the past.  They came up with the monthly income scheme, possibly without thinking it through - shocking, innit?  So they cut a deal with Embassies to produce these affidavits/statdecs.  Thais were relieved to get out from under the admin mess they created, and have been happily checking the box they created, ever since.

 

All these years later, they pretend that old verification requirement is now a real thing, then in the same breath, use it to break the deal their predecessors made long ago. 

 

I have no problem with them ending it.  Their country, their train set. 

 

What makes this so krappy is they don't have the balls to own it.  They are hiding behind the curtain whispering their ultimatum, which puts the onus on individual 1st world Embassies to publicly announce they are unable to comply with the Thailand's unyielding gold standard.  We are getting this Drip, Drip, Drip.

 

The irony is, Thailand itself couldn't comply either.  Even if they could they wouldn't.  Not for this reason.  They think they look good now but in the end, they won't.  They are short-sighted, incapable of glimpsing tomorrow's loss of face until it smacks them in the backside. 

[NCC1701A]

50 minutes ago, garyk said:

If from America you could of invested that money and it would be paying you a great dividend? Even a crummy fund would pay you some good dividends!

my dividend is I don't have to worry about immigration AT ALL, the Thai bank interest pays all my immigration fees, I have a source of emergency money in Thailand (I live here 24/7) without having to wait for a transfer.  

 

[uffe123]

things are getting so bad here, used to be cheap to live here, not any more par with my home country, and maybe even more expensive.  and now having to bring in extra cash. Pretty soon they will want to know what you eat every day.

I believe after 18 years i will be looking elsewhere. Just come back here for a month, now and then if at all.

You get treated worse than a second class citizen. Sit at immigration for almost a whole day to pay money to stay here for what. When everyone leaves this place will be hurting, mark my word. But of course there will always be the diehards who make themselves believe how great this place is.

 

[Jeffrey346]

2 minutes ago, Will27 said:

I wonder if this means that there will be a big increase in trips to Savannakhet for visas.

I'm going next week to change from retirement to a Marriage Visa.. B400,000 is a lot more acceptable to me tan B800,000.

[JackThompson]

20 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Let me put it a different way.  If you can't afford to park 25 grand in an interest bearing account that can be removed at any time you don't have enough money to be an international traveler. 

Who is traveling?  This is about people who retired or married here, and likely have nothing in their passport-country to return to - and would have to live like street-dogs there if they did. 

 

Retirees on social-security eating pet-food happens in the USA, often because medications are many-times more expensive and overhead is crazy-high relative to std-of-living.  Thailand is an attractive retirement-destination because it is so much more affordable, while not being completely undeveloped and/or dangerous.

 

Worst-case, time to "travel" one-way to live in Cambodia, Vietnam, or the PI.

 

21 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Go home.  Thailand is too expensive and complicated for you.  Thai immigration and American embassy has made that abundantly clear. 

If you don't care about his quality-of-life (likely horrible back home by comparison), tell that bit to the Thais who remain employed due to his spending here.  Or don't they matter, either?  

[JackThompson]

22 minutes ago, ccarbaugh said:

Where is an "affordable" country to retire to?????  

Cambodia - ~$360/yr for annual extensions (an actual "Visa" sticker which is Multiple-Entry) last I checked.  Never need to leave the country.  Agents handle it all for $25 (USD) or so - no hundreds-of-dollars to fund the Multi-Level-Marketing style brown-envelope octupus-system. 

 

Vietnam - some nations get easy longer-term tourist visas (don't have to ship yourself in an aluminum tube to your passport-country to apply for it, either).  They don't care if you exit-return perpetually.  Just don't overstay.

 

Philippines - many options from Tourist to various retirement/income type schemes.  Also don't care about "out/in" runs for tourists - just don't overstay.

 

Almost all of Latin America - varies by country but few are any problem for longer-stay tourists, and many have easy retirement and Permanent-Resident schemes.  Overstay is usually a small fine and no consequence (Brazil comes to mind), but varies by country.

[bkkcanuck8]

3 hours ago, certacito said:

How long until the Australian embassy's news flash ?

As I mentioned before, most if not all western Embassies do not have access to the information required to actually verify income... they just cannot do it.  The change in requirements by the Thai authorities in what they are requiring is not possible... So expect more embassies to follow.

[garyk]

2 minutes ago, NCC1701A said:

my dividend is I don't have to worry about immigration AT ALL, the Thai bank interest pays all my immigration fees, I have a source of emergency money in Thailand (I live here 24/7) without having to wait for a transfer.  

 

I have an ATM card does the same thing. Also they pay all of my ATM fees and give me close to current exchange rates. My last withdrawal I got 32.51 / dollar. 

At this point I am bowing out. 

Everyone thinks their way is right. And I respect that. 

Regards

[sqwakvfr]

I just reviewed the CNX FAQ page and it states “early renewals”.  Does this mean an Ext of Stay can be renewed up to 3 months early (in CNX)?  

[onera1961]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Now I am going to go there.

The U.S. government says it cannot verify income.

REALLY?!?

They cannot verify SOCIAL SECURITY U.S. federal government pensions?!?

Does anyone actually believe that?

They cannot verify U.S. MILITARY pensions?

Does anyone actually believe that?

I simply cannot believe embassies cannot verify your income but private banks can do to risk their money by loaning you. Embassies can always hire a private company in the US for a fee, paid by applicants

[Sheryl]

Lame timing on the part of the US Embassy. Had they made this statement in Septemeber, at least people would have had time to transfer and age the required 800,000 baht bank deposit. Now some of the people who must renew in January and February are screwed. 

The letters will be issued through end of 2018 and have 6 month validity so those with extensions in the first half of 2019 are OK for now. It is those who must extend between July - October and use the income method who have a problem especially if TI wants to see a full year of monthly remittances into a Thai bank.

The US Emb announcement says TI will facilitate "early" extensions but provides no details on that.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Ban Phe Dezza]

2 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

Another off topic post has been removed. The is a serious topic and there is no room for jokes or other nonsense.

From now on there will be no notice of removals. I your post disappears you can assume that you stepped over the line.

 

Joe what Many members seem to be missing the point is I have the 65,000 baht a month Pension and Super combined However at the moment I/o will not accept a bankbook as Proof of Income

[Thaidream]

I have read the Notice on the Us Embassy site under notarial and have a question for the US Embassy.

 

The Us Embassy is NOT stopping affidavits =they are stopping the income letter. However- if one looks on their website- there is a blank affidavit that an applicant can write in their income attestation or anything else they want to state.  One swears the Oath; signs and the Consular Official puts an Embassy cover sheet indicating date . The Embassy also indicates they are not verifying any of the information stated nor can they attest to its veracity.

 

I have used this blank form years ago to attest to my income and sources for a court matter- and it was accepted by the court. You are swearing under Oath that the information you state is true under penalty of perjury.

 

I have sent an email to ACS US Embassy Bangkok asking if they will allow a citizen to use this blank form to write in their income and sign it .  If they say yes- then the questions will be -will Thai imm accept that in lieu of  a so called income letter.

 

[Will27]

6 minutes ago, Jeffrey346 said:

I'm going next week to change from retirement to a Marriage Visa.. B400,000 is a lot more acceptable to me tan B800,000.

I also think that there will be a lot more marriages now due to the lower income requirements.

[JackThompson]

 

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

Thats all they had been doing, they stamped a affidavit that you swore to be accurate. Thai immigration accepted it for many years even though they knew the embassy did not verify the amount

 

28 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

It was just too easy, for too many. No verification? Nothing? Just a statement of fact?

Just a felony that would get you locked-up.  No big deal ??  I doubt most would risk this.

 

1 hour ago, moe666 said:

I guess immigration has become tired of the low life liars and cheats staying in Thailand for long term. If you do not have the money bye bye. Those big bills at the hospitals where to much when the person unable to pay had claimed 65,000b a month income

 

23 minutes ago, Kerryd said:

Maybe that is why Thailand now wants to see a (Thai) bank book showing regular deposits of 65,000/month. To prove all you "uber rich" people actually have the amounts you've been claiming to for so many years.

All that system will prove, is that someone is capable of making withdrawals, wiring it back to their home-country, then sending it back to Thailand, again.  A "show deposits" method would open up retirement to anyone who can send some cash back and forth.  If this becomes the norm, income validation is no longer validation at all.
 

22 minutes ago, chrisinth said:

Or it could be that immigration want to see the truth before issuing extensions of stay.

 

22 minutes ago, Suradit69 said:

And as has been true for most immigrations "crackdowns,"  because a relatively small number of foreigners abuse the system, everyone  ends up dealing with more onerous hurdles to leap over.

If history of "crackdowns" is any indications, it's just more agent-money they want to see.  As usual (see the ED Visa "crackdown"), the "abusers" is a excuse they will claim, while the real reason is getting more agent-money, selling overpriced visas, and similar activities that line certain pockets.  All that is ever accomplished is more honest people having to behave like criminals, because criminal-activity is rewarded, while honesty is not.

 

28 minutes ago, garyk said:

Huge payday for Thailand for sure.

For those getting agent-money envelopes - definitely.  Many will be too lazy to bother shipping money in and out to prove monthly "income" under the new system (assuming such a system does become reality).

[bkkcanuck8]

5 minutes ago, uffe123 said:

things are getting so bad here, used to be cheap to live here, not any more par with my home country, and maybe even more expensive.  and now having to bring in extra cash. Pretty soon they will want to know what you eat every day.

I believe after 18 years i will be looking elsewhere. Just come back here for a month, now and then if at all.

You get treated worse than a second class citizen. Sit at immigration for almost a whole day to pay money to stay here for what. When everyone leaves this place will be hurting, mark my word. But of course there will always be the diehards who make themselves believe how great this place is.

 

 

Wow, I guess it is all in how you need to live your life...  I eat Thai food, I don't live in CBD Bangkok, don't frequent western oriented bars... and other than my computer toys... I am not that interested in spending more money (which I could easily) -- the net result is 12,000 baht month for townhouse, maybe 5,000 at most for utilities, and at most 5,000 for food... so my base cost is around 22,000 baht... I could not starve living in an outhouse in my home country for that amount of money ????