Buying land on Koh Samui

[bobby2]

How much should I expect to pay for approx 1000sq mtrs of land either in Bang Por sea view or flat land east coast inland slightly?

[xylophone]

Not a lot because you can never own it.

[bobby2]

I know that. That was not the question!

 

[PerkinsCuthbert]

Depends how gullible you are.

[PatOngo]

12 minutes ago, bobby2 said:

How much should I expect to pay

Invest only as much as you can afford to lose.

[metisdead]

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[xylophone]

27 minutes ago, bobby2 said:

What a waste of time asking anything on here with stupid comments. Why you live in Thailand I will never know. Obviously been ripped off or just miserable old gits. Just a simple question from someone who has lived in Thailand for 8 years married to a Thai lady who works for the government.

You have probably been hit with the "backlash" as there have been many posts on farangs owning/buying land and who still argue, in one form or another, that they CAN own land here, hence the replies, me included (and I have not been ripped off nor am I a miserable old git!)!!!

 

As your Thai lady works for the government, could she use her contacts to find the name of someone who works at the land office, then ask them??

 

In reality there is no sure way to find out the cost/value of such a piece of land here, as you should know by now, as asking and selling prices are as fluid as anyone wants them to be.

[BigC]

The value is what ever the person is selling not for. If you want the approx value then for a rai with seas view with government access road and government electric could be from 3 - 10 mill defending on the location 

 

normally about 1 rai in land with no sea view is about 3-5 with government road and electric

 

ignore the people that say you cannot own land here about 70% of the island is Forang owned

 

who you reckon they build these luxury villas for ? ( Thais )

 

of coarse you can buy buy land you just have to chose the best method that suits you 

[xylophone]

12 hours ago, BigC said:

ignore the people that say you cannot own land here about 70% of the island is Forang owned

In reality these people own nothing (unless through the 40 million baht investment route) apart from a shareholding in a sham company, which at any time can be dissolved.

 

12 hours ago, BigC said:

who you reckon they build these luxury villas for ? ( Thais )

For foreigners who believe they can own land, aided and abetted by crooked lawyers who will set up an illegal Thai Nominee Structure in order to get the fees, plus ongoing revenue from auditing the sham company. 

 

12 hours ago, BigC said:

of coarse you can buy buy land you just have to chose the best method that suits you 

Most of which are not legal and the only ways are through a wife who buys it with her own money or by running a bone fide company which meets the legal requirements and which can then buy land. Having said that the farang still only holds the rights to 49% of the company.

 

There has been so much written on this of late so if you don't believe this post go look it up and you will see the relevant Thai laws pertaining to land ownership...…….and at every turn the law clearly states that farangs cannot own land in Thailand...…….no matter what structure is conjured up, and specifically deals with the Thai Nominee Company set-up as not legal.

 

Nothing more needs to be said as it has been covered in great detail in other posts.

 

Bobby2...…you may already know this, so sorry to repeat it, no malice intended. Just trying to ensure you know the ropes.

[khunPer]

19 hours ago, bobby2 said:

How much should I expect to pay for approx 1000sq mtrs of land either in Bang Por sea view or flat land east coast inland slightly?

Land sizes in Thailand are measured in "rai" and "tarang wah". A rai is 1.600 m² (40x40m), and often divided into half-rai of 800 m². A tarang wah is 4 m² (2x2m, a wah is 2 meter). 100 tarang wah is 1 "ngan", or 1/4 rai; i.e. 4 ngan 1600 m² equaling 1 rai.

 

1 rai seaview land in Bang Por would be in the area of 5 million baht, depending on location, road access, and electricity, etc.  Compared to a 1000 m² price it would be around 3 million baht, but you'll more like find plot-sizes of ½ rai, i.e. 800 m². If bought within a project, expect smaller plots and bigger prices. If you buy a larger plot of several rai, that can be subdivided, the price per rai might be little lower.

 

Be aware of land in the hills, that you have road access – preferably concrete road with rain water rails at each side, due to rainy season access and road destruction by rain water – and that the land slope is less than 45 degrees. If 45 degrees or more, it's government land, and no one can own it. Some land uphills might not have legal deeds, even they deeds look very real, so get a qualified real-estate lawyer to make due diligence before you (or Thai partner) sign anything.

 

Flat inland land prices range from about 3.5 million baht per rai, depending on location, East Coast is more expensive than South or West. The prices havn't changed a lot during the past decade. Cleared land facing a main road – no coconut trees and filled with sand, ready for construction, or business – has a high price, which can be 10 million baht and up per rai; whilst coconut plantagen land still can be bought at a "reasonable" price. I was recently offered inland land in Bang Por – chanute-deed, with public concrete road access and electricity posts on road – for 3.5 million baht per rai; however several rai that could be subdivided.

 

The always important factors to check:

• Title deed, which shall be of Chanute class (eventually Nor Sor 3 type for upgrade)
• Road access; if over other land you'll need a (registered) servitude
• Electric, i.e. are there posts and wires next to the land, or nearby?
• Water, i.e. public water supply, or well, or..? Uphill you might need water supplied by truck, and/or collect rainwater in huge tanks

Take a look around, there are often signs "for sale" on plots available. Check with a few real-estate agents (not one only), they will gladly take you around and show potential land – agents are paid a commission by seller, typical 3%, but just some mouth-to-mouth recommendation might also be based on some level of commission, which is typical Thai – your price might be the same with, or without a real-estate agent, but the agent will handle the paperwork, if you don't use a lawyer (which I recommend). If you sign any agreements without a lawyer, make them at the office of the local village headman (Poo Yai Ban), as he is a trustworthy witness, and also knows about land in the area; expect to pay a fee to the village headman for the service.

????

[BigC]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:43 AM, xylophone said:

In reality these people own nothing (unless through the 40 million baht investment route) apart from a shareholding in a sham company, which at any time can be dissolved.

 

For foreigners who believe they can own land, aided and abetted by crooked lawyers who will set up an illegal Thai Nominee Structure in order to get the fees, plus ongoing revenue from auditing the sham company. 

 

Most of which are not legal and the only ways are through a wife who buys it with her own money or by running a bone fide company which meets the legal requirements and which can then buy land. Having said that the farang still only holds the rights to 49% of the company.

 

There has been so much written on this of late so if you don't believe this post go look it up and you will see the relevant Thai laws pertaining to land ownership...…….and at every turn the law clearly states that farangs cannot own land in Thailand...…….no matter what structure is conjured up, and specifically deals with the Thai Nominee Company set-up as not legal.

 

Nothing more needs to be said as it has been covered in great detail in other posts.

 

Bobby2...…you may already know this, so sorry to repeat it, no malice intended. Just trying to ensure you know the ropes.

I have owned houses here for 15 years 

[xylophone]

1 hour ago, BigC said:

I have owned houses here for 15 years 

If you read and understood my post then the only legal way is through a bone fide company structure, which has not been created solely to own property/land. Sure you can own a house, but not the land it sits on, so not an ideal situation.

 

Plenty on the thread I mentioned to inform you, so a good read for all who believe they own land with the property.

[khunPer]

On 10/31/2018 at 4:43 AM, xylophone said:

Bobby2...…you may already know this, so sorry to repeat it, no malice intended. Just trying to ensure you know the ropes.

Bobby2 has already in another thread mentioned, that it is his wife that shall be the owner of the land, so no need to repeat warnings about foreign land ownership here. OP's question was about pricing, not various methods for foreign ownership.

 

And as BigC posted, there are lots of foreigners with property on Samui, one way or the other; and by the way, it's not all lawyers on the island that are "crooked lawyers".

????

[fforest1]

On 11/1/2018 at 6:57 PM, xylophone said:

If you read and understood my post then the only legal way is through a bone fide company structure, which has not been created solely to own property/land. Sure you can own a house, but not the land it sits on, so not an ideal situation.

 

Plenty on the thread I mentioned to inform you, so a good read for all who believe they own land with the property.

Or get Thai citizenship....

[Tropicalevo]

Land prices are what people are prepared to pay.

 

Plots where I live (not Bang Por) are known to have sold for more than 30 million baht per rai.

 

Talk to multiple real estate agents that have been around for a long time.

[BigC]

On 10/31/2018 at 10:43 AM, xylophone said:

In reality these people own nothing (unless through the 40 million baht investment route) apart from a shareholding in a sham company, which at any time can be dissolved.

 

For foreigners who believe they can own land, aided and abetted by crooked lawyers who will set up an illegal Thai Nominee Structure in order to get the fees, plus ongoing revenue from auditing the sham company. 

 

Most of which are not legal and the only ways are through a wife who buys it with her own money or by running a bone fide company which meets the legal requirements and which can then buy land. Having said that the farang still only holds the rights to 49% of the company.

 

There has been so much written on this of late so if you don't believe this post go look it up and you will see the relevant Thai laws pertaining to land ownership...…….and at every turn the law clearly states that farangs cannot own land in Thailand...…….no matter what structure is conjured up, and specifically deals with the Thai Nominee Company set-up as not legal.

 

Nothing more needs to be said as it has been covered in great detail in other posts.

 

Bobby2...…you may already know this, so sorry to repeat it, no malice intended. Just trying to ensure you know the ropes.

If you have a thai company the company can own the land. It is legal. The nominee thing is not illegal as long as the Thai can prove they have assets worth he shares. 

 

If thai Forang owned companies couldn’t own land then all these villas  would have been seized by now and we would all be renting 10,000 baht bungalows. 

 

The crack down on thai nominees was due to people setting up illegal companies then applying for mass loans from the bank. Hence fraud 

 

I am taking about hundreds of millions of baht in fraud 

 

there was the case in Phuket where the thai nominee was the one that was prosecuted for a Chinese run business when the boat sank.

 

People get too serious about small things 

 

if you wish to buy a plot of land to build a house and live in then you shall have no problems 

 

if your intentions are to money launder or use for illegal activity then yes the laws are built to get you one way or the other 

 

i  have had thai Forang owner company for around 15  years and have many houses and not once had any problem with the law 

 

as long as you have you land in your Conpany name. You have the right planning permission when built house 

 

you abey building laws 

 

you shall be fine 

[huberthammer]

On 11/30/2018 at 3:48 PM, BigC said:

If you have a thai company the company can own the land. It is legal. The nominee thing is not illegal as long as the Thai can prove they have assets worth he shares. 

 

If the Thai share holder has the money and is an investor he is no longer a nominee and there is no discussion about illegal business. Fact is that a lot (I dare to say most) of the houses are owned by a company with the the nominees being puppets with no assets and just helping to facilitate the illegal land owning of a foreigner. It would be very obvious in any investigation that such companies were illegal vehicles and as such the land ownership would be illegal too.

 

It is unlikely that they will crack down on existing companies (especially as they closed their eyes for such a long time) but I would not tell anybody that this is no problem at all and that if you are a good citizen nothing will happen to you.  You stand on very weak ground if any issues ever come up. Whenever I talk to a real estate agent and he gives me the "oh this is no problem at all, we just setup a company for you with some Thai nominees and you are fully legal" I tend to thank him for his help and walk away. 

 

 

[xylophone]

On 11/30/2018 at 3:48 PM, BigC said:

If you have a thai company the company can own the land. It is legal.

Slight correction on that statement........

 

"If you have a bone fide Thai company which has Thai shareholders who own the majority of the shares and who have invested their own money in this company and can show from whence this money came, and if this company is a real company which is in business and produces something, then the company (not the farang) can acquire land and buildings in order to enable it to carry out its business".

 

The previous poster has pointed this out, however I have expanded on it just a little.

[BigC]

22 hours ago, xylophone said:

Slight correction on that statement........

 

"If you have a bone fide Thai company which has Thai shareholders who own the majority of the shares and who have invested their own money in this company and can show from whence this money came, and if this company is a real company which is in business and produces something, then the company (not the farang) can acquire land and buildings in order to enable it to carry out its business".

 

The previous poster has pointed this out, however I have expanded on it just a little.

Spelling terrible before was bad but with this new phone I don’t even understand what I wrote 

 

you can own a house in Thailand and land

 

like I said all these villas are forang owned and are not being investigated 

 

if you open a thai company your 49% you shall still be the majority share holder as you need around 3 Thais also to share between them the 51% 

 

if the share capital is low for the limited company it’s not a problem  

 

if you require a work permit you must have 2 million share capital but if you just want to live in your house it’s not a problem

 

the process seems

compicated but not as complicated as it sounds 

 

plus there are allot of people with shelf companies for sale

 

people that have set up companies Incase they want to do something then after years haven’t decided to do anything with them so they are for sale 

 

plus all the share holder can pre sign their share transfer certifates so you can take them out and move tjem

around at will

 

only problem with a company is that if you want to purchase anything in your company name or if you want to sell your house then you shall

beed meeting paper with all share holders signatures

 

so make sure the share holders are people you can locate not now but 10’years from now as you may need their signiture if you want to sell  

[bobby2]

Ok so my route is to get the land in wife's name. So  understand I will never own the land. 30 Year leaae on  the land and build a property. Usufruct in place for life with property left to children for the remain part of lease should I die. Also option to sub let or sell on the lease. 

Still confused about solicitor Samui, Surat Thani town or say Bangkok as I understand land office may not give me all the history on Chanote.

With regard to wife buying land does she need to show where the money has come from or can I just deposit in her account?

Many thanks

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, bobby2 said:

Still confused about solicitor Samui, Surat Thani town or say Bangkok as I understand land office may not give me all the history on Chanote.

With regard to wife buying land does she need to show where the money has come from or can I just deposit in her account?

The best is to use a local solicitor that knows the area, and the Land Office procedures. A qualified real-estate solicitor will perform a due diligence on the land title deed at the Land Office for you. You can also use the local Head-of-Village (phu yai ban) to make a land-trade agreement, he will normally know details about the land. (I've used local Head-of-Village for all Thai land deals I've been involved in, including two at Samui.)

 

It's important for you that you get a superficies that will allow you to build, and own, a house on the land. An usufruct will work for your life, whilst a lease agreement for up to 30-years can be transferred. I don't think you can make both usufruct and lease, but ask a qualified lawyer.

 

Some land offices require a statement about money, if they suspect a foreigner is financially supporting, which will normally be a declaration that the Thai person is the sole owner of the land. However, it's different from land office to land office what they wish, so again, an experienced local real estate solicitor will know the answer, and can advice you. (I would never suggest a Bangkok firm, or out of island law firm, for Samui matters, as Samui historically has been known for handling things it's own way.)

If you don't have a law firm in mind, I can PM you a suggestion.

????

[Eric1949]

There is no Phu yai ban in Samui.

 As of 2012, Ko Samui was granted municipal status and thus is now locally self-governing. 

[PoorSucker]

20 minutes ago, Eric1949 said:

There is no Phu yai ban in Samui.

 As of 2012, Ko Samui was granted municipal status and thus is now locally self-governing. 

Every village on Samui has a Phu yai ban, in bophut for example there are six of them, one for each village (moo ban)

[Eric1949]

The so called Phu yai ban's in Bophut are taking you for a ride.  There are no official ones  anymore in Samui. 

[xylophone]

On 12/3/2018 at 1:30 PM, BigC said:

Spelling terrible before was bad but with this new phone I don’t even understand what I wrote 

 

you can own a house in Thailand and land

 

like I said all these villas are forang owned and are not being investigated 

 

if you open a thai company your 49% you shall still be the majority share holder as you need around 3 Thais also to share between them the 51% 

 

if the share capital is low for the limited company it’s not a problem  

 

if you require a work permit you must have 2 million share capital but if you just want to live in your house it’s not a problem

 

the process seems

compicated but not as complicated as it sounds 

 

plus there are allot of people with shelf companies for sale

 

people that have set up companies Incase they want to do something then after years haven’t decided to do anything with them so they are for sale 

 

plus all the share holder can pre sign their share transfer certifates so you can take them out and move tjem

around at will

 

only problem with a company is that if you want to purchase anything in your company name or if you want to sell your house then you shall

beed meeting paper with all share holders signatures

 

so make sure the share holders are people you can locate not now but 10’years from now as you may need their signiture if you want to sell  

So much wrong with this it isn't funny............

 

you can own a house in Thailand and land

 

Only through a bone fide operating company or the investment route, or through the ownership by a Thai wife.

 

if you open a thai company your 49% you shall still be the majority share holder as you need around 3 Thais also to share between them the 51% 

 

The Thai ownership therefore controls the majority shareholding, not the farang.

 

if the share capital is low for the limited company it’s not a problem  

 

If the limited company buys a house then the cost of that house and land needs to be covered by the shareholders (they need to invest) who can show where the funds came from in law (and not from the farang).

 

plus all the share holder can pre sign their share transfer certifates so you can take them out and move them around at will

 

This was the case when setting up Thai nominee companies and is against the law.

 

so make sure the share holders are people you can locate not now but 10’years from now as you may need their signiture if you want to sell

 

Well the shareholders will have to have invested their share of the value of the company (including the house and land) in traceable funds (money) so I doubt if they will go missing with a million or more (example) baht being owed to them.

 

This is a legal way to buy a house and land (through a bone fide operating company) and all else leaves one open to losing everything as it is against the law, and as others have found out to their dismay. The fact that others have operated using Thai nominees and share transfers is no excuse or reason to follow suit.

[PoorSucker]

3 hours ago, Eric1949 said:

The so called Phu yai ban's in Bophut are taking you for a ride.  There are no official ones  anymore in Samui. 

Has not been since 1954, it's still an honorary title meaning village elder, they mediate in conflicts and yes they can vouch for you as an honerable person.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, Eric1949 said:

The so called Phu yai ban's in Bophut are taking you for a ride.  There are no official ones  anymore in Samui. 

Indeed there are...????

[khunPer]

1 hour ago, xylophone said:

So much wrong with this it isn't funny............

 

you can own a house in Thailand and land

 

Only through a bone fide operating company or the investment route, or through the ownership by a Thai wife.

Yes, you can own land in Thailand as a foreigner, you can use the Investment Visa, and as foreigner be legally allowed to own 1 rai of land.
You can own a house, but not always the land under the house, which might be leased, or granted permission to use from usufruct and superficies rights.

 

if you open a thai company your 49% you shall still be the majority share holder as you need around 3 Thais also to share between them the 51% 

 

The Thai ownership therefore controls the majority shareholding, not the farang.

You need minimum 3 shareholders in total. Having 49% of the shares can make you the major shareholder, if none of other two shareholders owns 49% or more of the shareholder capital.
However voting majority is different, and can be dependent of so-called "Preferred shares"; a 10% ownership of preferred shares with 10:1 votes can actually control a company, which for example is seen in some of the Scandinavian stock-exchange traded companies. You can also have preferred shares with a guaranteed dividend in return of no voting rights, just 3% of the shareholder capital owns that kind of shares, leaves the major 49% shareholder with plain voting majority.

 

if the share capital is low for the limited company it’s not a problem  

 

If the limited company buys a house then the cost of that house and land needs to be covered by the shareholders (they need to invest) who can show where the funds came from in law (and not from the farang).

The registered shareholder capital will normally be needed to be paid in, but it can be as low as 1 million baht, if no foreigner's Work Permit is needed in the company limited. The cost of land and house can be (much) more, as money can be borrowed; i.e. for example a mortgage, or a registered loan servitude on the land title deed.

 

plus all the share holder can pre sign their share transfer certifates so you can take them out and move them around at will

 

This was the case when setting up Thai nominee companies and is against the law.

This was common practice in the "old" nominee-companies, and is probably still used – I've seen it used – as long as there's no evidence against it, it might work well.

 

so make sure the share holders are people you can locate not now but 10’years from now as you may need their signiture if you want to sell

 

Well the shareholders will have to have invested their share of the value of the company (including the house and land) in traceable funds (money) so I doubt if they will go missing with a million or more (example) baht being owed to them.

A signature is not really needed, if you just sell your controlling lot of shares; however, a new major shareholder might wish to select the other shareholders.
A company can always sell property, a single signature from a director might be enough – or a signature by granted power of attorney – depending of what is agreed and stated in the registration document, and agreed in actual meeting reports. When a property is sold and transferred any registered debt or remaining mortgage shall be settled, including agreed interest and any other legal costs.

 

This is a legal way to buy a house and land (through a bone fide operating company) and all else leaves one open to losing everything as it is against the law, and as others have found out to their dismay. The fact that others have operated using Thai nominees and share transfers is no excuse or reason to follow suit.

Not that "much wrong" in @BigCs post, but might be explained little different, my comments above in dark violet color...????

[xylophone]

On ‎12‎/‎7‎/‎2018 at 7:05 PM, khunPer said:

Not that "much wrong" in @BigCs post, but might be explained little different, my comments above in dark violet color...????

I disagree, as faux/Thai nominee companies are illegal and the following applies...……"the setting up of a company whose sole use is for the purchase of property/land is illegal". 

 

No ifs or buts or "might work" about it, illegal plain and simple.

 

As for "real" operating companies, well the company can purchase property/land provided if it has the requisite number of shareholders who have invested funds (whether their own or through loans as they are still liable for that debt) and is set up correctly.

 

The company must be at least 51% Thai owned through its share structure and no matter what chicanery is involved in allocating preference shares/voting rights etc, the overall structure makes it Thai owned and the farang may have a control but does not own the land.

 

It all comes down to the basic tenet "that foreigners cannot own land (apart from the 40 m baht investment route) in Thailand" and no matter what 'structures" are attempted/put in place to try and circumvent that, it always applies.

 

All newbies and others should be aware of the above before they think that they can own land in Thailand and just because "others have done it", doesn't make it right and they stand to lose everything in a worst case scenario.

[khunPer]

4 hours ago, xylophone said:

As for "real" operating companies, well the company can purchase property/land provided if it has the requisite number of shareholders who have invested funds (whether their own or through loans as they are still liable for that debt) and is set up correctly.

And there – "operating companies" – you have the answer to your doubt...????