Strangers talking on baht buses in these "interesting" times

[Patriot1066]

7 hours ago, Jingthing said:

Tangential sighting. White man of undetermined nationality wearing a Kanye for President t-shirt. Maybe he meant nothing by it but for those that have been watching recent Kanye news if he did mean something it would now be a very ambiguous message.

 

To add I recently read that Jesse Jackson for president t-shirts have become a big youth fashion trend in some Asian nations. Haven't seen in Thailand though. There is no political message. People like the anesthetics of the graphic!

 

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't hold much score on tea shirts for Jesse Jackson on the Bhatt bus, did he have two revolvers? they have probably just miss used him instead of Jessie James. Like the horrendous English statements many Thais have on their tee shirts, Make live not war, I @@ck all night you know the sort of things mixed up words and double intenders.

 

You could but the Kanya one on Brietbart, but they quickly sell their merchandise so you have to get in straight away.

 

https://store.breitbart.com/

 

Kqnya no longer available most say border control.

 

Mrs W did tell me that she heard people talking on the bus today but it involved around a lost chicken and washing tasks. She was in Boa sang its quiet rural.

 

 

[Mikeasq60]

On ‎11‎/‎9‎/‎2018 at 9:47 PM, Jingthing said:

Yes for many of us being an American abroad has become embarrassing. Wasn't always so. Is now. 

Why is it embarrassing for you as an American to say you are so?

[Patriot1066]

11 minutes ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Why is it embarrassing for you as an American to say you are so?

 

11 minutes ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Why is it embarrassing for you as an American to say you are so?

 

11 minutes ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Why is it embarrassing for you as an American to say you are so?

Mr Trump !

[rumak]

3 hours ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Why is it embarrassing for you as an American to say you are so?

well, let's see what george had to say about that.....

/www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv4yVf86hAk

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, Patriot1066 said:

 

 

Mr Trump !

Im me. If we judged  ordinary folks on their countries present policies or history instead of on who they are, there would be a lot of embarassed folks now wouldnt they. Except maybe Switzerland. No, forget them, they have baggage too. So maybe Iceland and Sweden. And maybe a few we have never heard of, but don't matter in the scheme of things, and you wont run into them anyway.

 

Im a proud American, and am proud of my countries history and role in the world. Ill tell anyone I meet, who actually cares (and most westerners I talk to its like, where you from the US, o cool, where you from, Liechtenstein, o cool, how is your time here etc) that I am proudly from the States, and Ill be happy to discuss how cool your country is, even France (which is beautiful). Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone. Like my heroes at Millwall, If you want to hate me or disrespect me, a person you dont know, simply because I come from the US, I don't care. That says more about you, than me. And if you want to trash Badger Hair Don on the baht bus in my hearing, go ahead. Its not like Im going to argue with you or get offended or I cant come on here and talk about you, or call my Mom and say, geez Mom, ya should have seen the Dude on the baht bus from *insert country here* wearing a wife beater and hugging a Ladyboy, wow....."

 

And the baht bus in Pattaya does not carry the flower of Western thought anyway. I might take it more seriously at an Embassy party ????

 

Life is TOO SHORT to argue about sh*t ALL the time....

 

 

 

[Ctkong]

On 11/9/2018 at 10:44 AM, Spidey said:

Most Thais think that America is part of Australia, or vice-versa.

Same same but different .....

[Ctkong]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Im me. If we judged  ordinary folks on their countries present policies or history instead of on who they are, there would be a lot of embarassed folks now wouldnt they. Except maybe Switzerland. No, forget them, they have baggage too. So maybe Iceland and Sweden. And maybe a few we have never heard of, but don't matter in the scheme of things, and you wont run into them anyway.

 

Im a proud American, and am proud of my countries history and role in the world. Ill tell anyone I meet, who actually cares (and most westerners I talk to its like, where you from the US, o cool, where you from, Liechtenstein, o cool, how is your time here etc) that I am proudly from the States, and Ill be happy to discuss how cool your country is, even France (which is beautiful). Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone. Like my heroes at Millwall, If you want to hate me or disrespect me, a person you dont know, simply because I come from the US, I don't care. That says more about you, than me. And if you want to trash Badger Hair Don on the baht bus in my hearing, go ahead. Its not like Im going to argue with you or get offended or I cant come on here and talk about you, or call my Mom and say, geez Mom, ya should have seen the Dude on the baht bus from *insert country here* wearing a wife beater and hugging a Ladyboy, wow....."

 

And the baht bus in Pattaya does not carry the flower of Western thought anyway. I might take it more seriously at an Embassy party ????

 

Life is TOO SHORT to argue about sh*t ALL the time....

 

 

 

Go with the flow... you all are too far away from the action to have any effect on the country you came from.

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Ctkong said:

Same same but different .....

Naw..Americans are richer..Aussies won't tip..Canadians are financially reticent..English are addicted to ever diminishing pensions..kiwis are invisible and northern Europeans refuse to eat Thai food.

 

At least that is what my wife's 'Line' group says..????

[Spidey]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

Like my heroes at Millwall, If you want to hate me or disrespect me, a person you dont know, simply because I come from the US, I don't care.

Oh, but we do know Milwall and it's supporters.

 

Here's a typical Milwall supporter:

 

????????

Edited November 11, 2018 by Spidey

[Jingthing]

6 hours ago, Mikeasq60 said:

Why is it embarrassing for you as an American to say you are so?

I really thought most people would understand that and I'm skeptical that you don't.

 

But here goes --

 

The fact that the USA elected a bizarre, clownish, toxically divisive, race baiting, criminally corrupt, likely compromised by foreign power -- demagogue.

 

After being elected, he continues his TROLL show every day. How can a thinking American NOT be embarrassed by having a leader like that? Yes I know many aren't, those that support the troll president. 

 

Underlining what international people have noticed -- Americans are now MASSIVELY divided. No longer the USA. Now the DIVIDED states. 

 

The fact that the USA has before had at least somewhat more credibility trying to be a promoter of what I (and most Americans at least USED to) consider good very American values -- democracy, freedom of the press, civil rights for minorities, foreign aid as soft diplomacy -- radically abandoned those good values under the current power in the USA.

 

The American president has been called the leader of the free world, which has been mocked as arrogance before (understandably), but with the current one, has become absurd. The current leader is the leader of the "nationalist" xenophobic "strong leader" world. Opposite of free world.

 

Leaving the Paris climate accord. To Americans of conscience that is SHAMEFUL. Shame and embarrassment are linked.

 

The fact that the USA which at least for now still has vast wealth can't solve basic human problems that most other richer countries can. (Of course this predates the current power structure.) --

 

Access to health care for all citizens and relatively affordable

Avoiding shooting events happening in the USA almost daily

Having realistic options for most of their population to not be required to own a car

Economic inequality that continues to get worse

Epidemic of homelessness

 

Looking at surveys online approval of the USA has fallen dramatically since you know when in the vast majority of nations, with few exceptions. The foreigners see on the news what's happened and they don't approve. If they had RESPECT for the USA before that respect has been greatly DEGRADED. I think they're right. You want RESPECT, you need to earn it. The USA recently has done the opposite. Some Americans have the capability to feel shame and embarrassment about this historically dramatic decline in our national reputation. Many others don't.

 

I addressed this in a more nuanced way in the O.P. Perhaps reread it.

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

This topic really isn't about THAIS.

It's understood that in Thai culture interest in the outside world is like there is no there there.

 

[Nyezhov]

28 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Oh, but we do know Milwall and it's supporters.

 

Here's a typical Milwall supporter:

 

????????

well you knew exactly what I meant, so if you chose to insult and call me a "chav" and compare me to some dude acting up in a bar,  more power to you then mate. ????

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Nyezhov

[Spidey]

Just now, Nyezhov said:

well you knew exactly what I meant, so if you chose to insult and call me a "chav" and compare me to some dude acting up in a bar, thats your gig not mine.

Lighten up! It was a joke (missed the emojis?). Of course I don't think that you are a typical Milwall supporter.

 

However, they do have the deserved reputation of being the most violent and aggressive supporters in the football league.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millwall_Bushwackers

[Jingthing]

To add, because this is very much related to the conversations on the baht buses, I'm confident that the vast majority of Americans that have spent any time abroad in recent years understand exactly that this issue exists, whether they personally feel embarrassment or not. It really is a thing. If you don't believe me and you're not American, if you can fake an American accent start approaching different nationals (not Thais, they don't care) and say you're American and drop a hint about wanting to talk about the situation in the USA. You'll get it then if you don't already.

 

Quote

Americans vacationing overseas find themselves on a Donald Trump apology tour

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/americans-vacationing-overseas-find-themselves-on-a-donald-trump-apology-tour/2016/08/11/cb6b30ac-5fd1-11e6-af8e-54aa2e849447_story.html

 

 

Quote

A majority of Americans are embarrassed by President Trump

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2017/02/23/a-majority-of-americans-are-embarrassed-by-president-trump/

 

 

Quote

 

Patricia Dark: Embarrassed to be an American abroad

The Brits no longer trust Americans and certainly not our president.

It was a typically English day. Overcast sky with the hint of rain and all I wanted was a pint. But when I walked into the pub in a charming, limestone-brick cottage village in East Anglia, I suddenly realized I was embarrassed to open my mouth and ask for a local ale.

 

 

https://www.sltrib.com/opinion/commentary/2017/08/26/patricia-dark-embarrassed-to-be-an-american-abroad/

 

Quote

Trump embarrasses the US overseas

https://www.bostonglobe.com/opinion/2017/05/30/trump-embarrasses-overseas/yoJ5uNxwZrSPzLCc4WlIqN/story.html

 

 

Quote

Bruce Springsteen tells fans he's an 'embarrassed American' before singing song mocking Trump phone call with Australian Prime Minister

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4189700/Bruce-Springsteen-says-s-embarrassed-American.html

 

 

Quote

 

American expats living abroad feel mortified and embarrassed by Trump

As the rest of the civilized world looks upon them and their country in disgust.

 

 

https://www.datalounge.com/thread/20929438-american-expats-living-abroad-feel-mortified-and-embarrassed-by-trump

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I really thought most people would understand that and I'm skeptical that you don't.

 

But here goes --

 

The fact that the USA elected a bizarre, clownish, toxically divisive, race baiting, criminally corrupt, likely compromised by foreign power -- demagogue.

 

After being elected, he continues his TROLL show every day. How can a thinking American NOT be embarrassed by having a leader like that? Yes I know many aren't, those that support the troll president. 

 

Underlining what international people have noticed -- Americans are now MASSIVELY divided. No longer the USA. Now the DIVIDED states. 

 

The fact that the USA has before had at least somewhat more credibility trying to be a promoter of what I (and most Americans at least USED to) consider good very American values -- democracy, freedom of the press, civil rights for minorities, foreign aid as soft diplomacy -- radically abandoned those good values under the current power in the USA.

 

The American president has been called the leader of the free world, which has been mocked as arrogance before (understandably), but with the current one, has become absurd. The current leader is the leader of the "nationalist" xenophobic "strong leader" world. Opposite of free world.

 

Leaving the Paris climate accord. To Americans of conscience that is SHAMEFUL. Shame and embarrassment are linked.

 

The fact that the USA which at least for now still has vast wealth can't solve basic human problems that most other richer countries can. (Of course this predates the current power structure.) --

 

Access to health care for all citizens and relatively affordable

Avoiding shooting events happening in the USA almost daily

Having realistic options for most of their population to not be required to own a car

Economic inequality that continues to get worse

Epidemic of homelessness

 

Looking at surveys online approval of the USA has fallen dramatically since you know when in the vast majority of nations, with few exceptions. The foreigners see on the news what's happened and they don't approve. If they had RESPECT for the USA before that respect has been greatly DEGRADED. I think they're right. You want RESPECT, you need to earn it. The USA recently has done the opposite. Some Americans have the capability to feel shame and embarrassment about this historically dramatic decline in our national reputation. Many others don't.

 

I addressed this in a more nuanced way in the O.P. Perhaps reread it.

All valid points.. but you did not vote for Thrump... so why worry. Those who have voted Thrump are responsible for this not you.

 

When my government does things I don't like I don't mind others commenting on it. Its not like I am responsible for what my government does.. neither do i take pride in what my country does. It works both ways for me. I just do what I do and am who I am and don't care much about generalizations. 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, robblok said:

All valid points.. but you did not vote for Thrump... so why worry. Those who have voted Thrump are responsible for this not you.

 

When my government does things I don't like I don't mind others commenting on it. Its not like I am responsible for what my government does.. neither do i take pride in what my country does. It works both ways for me. I just do what I do and am who I am and don't care much about generalizations. 

To foreigners, how do they know whether a particular random American supports him or not? They don't. All Americans abroad are tainted orange now. Not in the Dutch way.

Look I understand you're Dutch and the Dutch haven't had global power intentions for a very long time.

Also face it you lucky guy, the Dutch and the Canadians are among the most popular and well regarded nationalities. 

The USA remains the world's major power at least by military and economy.

That can be good and bad but if the world's major power projects such toxic NEGATIVITY and hostility as it does now, that's a huge shift, and many Americans abroad are going to feel that intensely, whether you can personally understand that or not.

I recently read an interesting "definition" of nationalism vs. patriotism. Patriotism is love of country, nationalism is hatred of other countries. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The USA remains the world's major power at least by military and economy.

That can be good and bad but if the world's major power projects such toxic NEGATIVITY and hostility as it does now, that's a huge shift, and many Americans abroad are going to feel that intensely, whether you can personally understand that or not.

If that is your only worry, not much to worry about, most people understand that you and your government are 2 separate entities.

[robblok]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To foreigners, how do they know whether a particular random American supports him or not? They don't. All Americans abroad are tainted orange now. Not in the Dutch way.

Look I understand you're Dutch and the Dutch haven't had global power intentions for a very long time.

Also face it you lucky guy, the Dutch and the Canadians are among the most popular and well regarded nationalities. 

The USA remains the world's major power at least by military and economy.

That can be good and bad but if the world's major power projects such toxic NEGATIVITY and hostility as it does now, that's a huge shift, and many Americans abroad are going to feel that intensely, whether you can personally understand that or not.

I recently read an interesting "definition" of nationalism vs. patriotism. Patriotism is love of country, nationalism is hatred of other countries. 

JT,

 

I am just different.. i don't judge people for where they come from. Just how they act. But your right the US is far less popular as ever. 

 

[sanemax]

3 hours ago, Jingthing said:

I really thought most people would understand that and I'm skeptical that you don't.

 

But here goes --

 

The fact that the USA elected a bizarre, clownish, toxically divisive, race baiting, criminally corrupt, likely compromised by foreign power -- demagogue.

 

After being elected, he continues his TROLL show every day. How can a thinking American NOT be embarrassed by having a leader like that? Yes I know many aren't, those that support the troll president. 

 

Underlining what international people have noticed -- Americans are now MASSIVELY divided. No longer the USA. Now the DIVIDED states. 

 

The fact that the USA has before had at least somewhat more credibility trying to be a promoter of what I (and most Americans at least USED to) consider good very American values -- democracy, freedom of the press, civil rights for minorities, foreign aid as soft diplomacy -- radically abandoned those good values under the current power in the USA.

 

The American president has been called the leader of the free world, which has been mocked as arrogance before (understandably), but with the current one, has become absurd. The current leader is the leader of the "nationalist" xenophobic "strong leader" world. Opposite of free world.

 

Leaving the Paris climate accord. To Americans of conscience that is SHAMEFUL. Shame and embarrassment are linked.

 

The fact that the USA which at least for now still has vast wealth can't solve basic human problems that most other richer countries can. (Of course this predates the current power structure.) --

 

Access to health care for all citizens and relatively affordable

Avoiding shooting events happening in the USA almost daily

Having realistic options for most of their population to not be required to own a car

Economic inequality that continues to get worse

Epidemic of homelessness

 

Looking at surveys online approval of the USA has fallen dramatically since you know when in the vast majority of nations, with few exceptions. The foreigners see on the news what's happened and they don't approve. If they had RESPECT for the USA before that respect has been greatly DEGRADED. I think they're right. You want RESPECT, you need to earn it. The USA recently has done the opposite. Some Americans have the capability to feel shame and embarrassment about this historically dramatic decline in our national reputation. Many others don't.

 

I addressed this in a more nuanced way in the O.P. Perhaps reread it.

You seem quite obsessed by Trump , everything seems to revolve around him .

You are in Thailand now, try not to think about Trump too much 

[yogi100]

13 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

To foreigners, how do they know whether a particular random American supports him or not? They don't. All Americans abroad are tainted orange now. Not in the Dutch way.

Look I understand you're Dutch and the Dutch haven't had global power intentions for a very long time.

Also face it you lucky guy, the Dutch and the Canadians are among the most popular and well regarded nationalities. 

The USA remains the world's major power at least by military and economy.

That can be good and bad but if the world's major power projects such toxic NEGATIVITY and hostility as it does now, that's a huge shift, and many Americans abroad are going to feel that intensely, whether you can personally understand that or not.

I recently read an interesting "definition" of nationalism vs. patriotism. Patriotism is love of country, nationalism is hatred of other countries. 

 

Nationalism is putting the interests of one's homeland and that of its indigenous people first. Thailand is a nationalistic nation yet I see no evidence of its people expressing any hatred of other countries.

 

The welcome Thai people give to visitors is famous throughout the world but you have to respect their laws, way of life and how they go about running their country. Which is how it should be.

[yogi100]

3 minutes ago, sanemax said:

You seem quite obsessed by Trump , everything seems to revolve around him .

You are in Thailand now, try not to think about Trump too much 

 It's surprising they have not blamed Trump for the California fires. Not yet anyway.

[balo]

Wro g post

 

 

[Spidey]

30 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

Nationalism is putting the interests of one's homeland and that of its indigenous people first. Thailand is a nationalistic nation yet I see no evidence of its people expressing any hatred of other countries.

I'm always careful not to mention Cambodians to my wife. Sets her off big time.

[Odysseus123]

34 minutes ago, yogi100 said:

 

Nationalism is putting the interests of one's homeland and that of its indigenous people first. Thailand is a nationalistic nation yet I see no evidence of its people expressing any hatred of other countries.

 

The welcome Thai people give to visitors is famous throughout the world but you have to respect their laws, way of life and how they go about running their country. Which is how it should be.

Really?

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

I'm always careful not to mention Cambodians to my wife. Sets her off big time.

Yup..and Burmese..an' Laotians an' Malaysians.

 

In fact..just about everyone they share a border with.

[Spidey]

Just now, Odysseus123 said:

Yup..and Burmese..an' Laotians an' Malaysians.

 

In fact..just about everyone they share a border with.

For my wife, Laotians not so much. She's from Nong Khai and regards herself as more Laotian than Thai. When people ask her nationality she replies Lao Issan.

[Odysseus123]

1 minute ago, Spidey said:

For my wife, Laotians not so much. She's from Nong Khai and regards herself as more Laotian than Thai. When people ask her nationality she replies Lao Issan.

True..-my wife is from Isaan.

 

But the Bangkokian Thai regard them as very lowly indeed.

 

I should have also mentioned the Vietnamese..they are all lumped under the rubric.."they work too hard.."

 

Have another lao kao on me..

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

If that is your only worry, not much to worry about, most people understand that you and your government are 2 separate entities.

It certainly isn't but I won't expand on that.

Really, and I guess it's not working out too well, I want people to focus on these random discussions between people of different nationalities on baht buses (but could be other places) and when the discussions get into these "interesting" times. 

Whether overheard or more direct. 

Like I said before if directly asked (and it does happen) I do say my nationality and while that doesn't always necessarily get into a discussion of these "interesting" times I have noticed a marked difference in the reactions in the last few years. No, not from Thais! No difference with them at all. 

With other nationalities (not Thais) the most common reaction is a little bit of surprise because people don't usually assume I'm American based on appearance and an odd kind of look of disappointment / awkwardness / as if they wish they hadn't asked because it's an answer they didn't want to deal with. That's pretty weird, wouldn't you say? I think it's very weird and yes I have noticed this dramatic change since you know when. From there I don't necessarily push talking about the orange elephant in the room but if they give hints at interest, I'm game to talk. Of course some non-Americans like the orange elephant which makes things even more interesting. 

To add, the nationality that I've experienced to be the most overwhelmingly ANTI orange elephant are Germans! Some historical irony there if you get my drift.

 

Quote

 

Europeans are obsessed with Donald Trump

The loud-mouthed billionaire businessman embodies what Europeans love to hate about the U.S.

 

 

https://www.politico.com/story/2015/08/trump-europe-213141

 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[Jingthing]

1 hour ago, yogi100 said:

 

Nationalism is putting the interests of one's homeland and that of its indigenous people first. Thailand is a nationalistic nation yet I see no evidence of its people expressing any hatred of other countries.

 

The welcome Thai people give to visitors is famous throughout the world but you have to respect their laws, way of life and how they go about running their country. Which is how it should be.

Kind of off topic here as I've made it clear this topic really isn't about Thais because they are a people with so little interest in the outside world (with exceptions of course that people tell me about but not much in my experience). I agree Thailand is a very nationalist nation. It's not as innocent as you paint it but I don't think that relevant compared to the USA as although Thailand does have some Asean regional power it has almost no international power, unless you count people loving Pad Thai as international power. 

Edited November 11, 2018 by Jingthing

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

 

To add, the nationality that I've experienced to be the most overwhelmingly not pro orange elephant are Germans! Some historical irony there if you get my drift.

You are suggesting that Germans like Trump because of Germanys historical past!!!!!

Trump isnt a Nazi and neither are pro Trump Germans