anon7867763 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, featography said: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318260.php All reputable juices now do not contain diacetyl. Juices are evolving for the good very fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 From the U.S. Centers for Disease Control: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/pdfs/Electronic-Cigarettes-Infographic-508.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zib Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 The reason it was made illegal and considered harmful was because it wasn't regulated and people were importing (and making) all kinds of cheap liquids where there was no idea of the ingredients. In the US for example the liquids has to be FDA approved etc. I assume Thailand just wanted to ban it and then copy the FDAs approval/import guidelines Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 hours ago, geriatrickid said: How about some common sense. What do you think is in the fluids that are vaporized? Do you even know? That's your starting point, since there is no regulation of what goes in or what comes out. It's wonderful that you have so much faith in unregulated manufacturers using unknown chemicals. Do you understand what happens when you vaporize some of the organic substances used for flavouring and scenting? The fact is that the use of vaping has not been shown to be safer than regular tobacco use. Vaping hasn't been around long enough to allow for a long term study. It's sort of odd, that I was expected to use a fume hood when working with small amounts of aldehydes, and yet we have people ingesting far greater quantities of the volatile chemical through vaping without much concern. One is only fooling oneself if one believes that vaping is safe or less harmful. Common sense tells us that the ingestion of non foreign substances into our lungs will damage them. People make a fuss over car exhaust or factory smokestacks, but will gladly inhale contaminants from vaping and tobacco use. Absolute drivel. Now check out Health England and Cancer Research UK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
l4ml4m Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 What happens to them ? I have never seen idiots who try to improve as much as people in charge here are doing lately... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, zib said: The reason it was made illegal and considered harmful was because it wasn't regulated and people were importing (and making) all kinds of cheap liquids where there was no idea of the ingredients. In the US for example the liquids has to be FDA approved etc. I assume Thailand just wanted to ban it and then copy the FDAs approval/import guidelines Thailand has no enforced FDA regulations for all intents and purposes. Sellers here routinely sell all kinds of personal products with harmful and banned substances in them, and rarely are stopped or much less prosecuted. So anyone relying on the Thai FDA to ensure that locally available vaping products are free from the obviously harmful things, aside from nicotine, is living in a fool's paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, featography said: https://www.cancerresearchuk.org/about-cancer/causes-of-cancer/cancer-controversies/does-vaping-cause-popcorn-lung https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/318260.php Diacetyl2 is now excluded from many commercially available liquids. In any case it is present in conventional cigarettes at levels exponentially higher than vaping liquid, and cigarettes do not cause popcorn lung. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phuketshrew Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, johng said: I hope they do a somtam and pla-ra smelling juice to really upset the "non smokers" I think the durian flavoured juice would be popular too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Thailand has no enforced FDA regulations for all intents and purposes. Sellers here routinely sell all kinds of personal products with harmful and banned substances in them, and rarely are stopped or much less prosecuted. So anyone relying on the Thai FDA to ensure that locally available vaping products are free from the obviously harmful things, aside from nicotine, is living in a fool's paradise. So when someone drinks a Chang beer, is it safe? In fact consumes anything by your reasoning. The whole point of legalisation and regulation is to ensure a safe product. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Time to grow Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 "That's ok, as long as they ban them from being used in the same places as the "real" cigarettes, e-smoke annoys, stinks and endangers in the same way as "real" smok" Clearly you have no idea what you are talking about. For starters, e-cigs don't even produce smoke. They produce a vapor that dissipates from the air almost immediately. I can't tell you it doesn't annoy you but that's your problem. Maybe your hair color annoys me but that doesn't justify making it illegal. You say it stinks but again, it dissipates almost immediately from the air making it difficult to smell indoors let alone outdoors. It comes in thousands of flavors, are they all offensive to you? To claim the vapor endangers in the same way is utter nonsense. You need to check your facts before making such a bold claim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zib Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Thailand has no enforced FDA regulations for all intents and purposes. Sellers here routinely sell all kinds of personal products with harmful and banned substances in them, and rarely are stopped or much less prosecuted. So anyone relying on the Thai FDA to ensure that locally available vaping products are free from the obviously harmful things, aside from nicotine, is living in a fool's paradise. Of course no one cares or enforces it except for 1 time a year to look good. But they still try.. ???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 17 minutes ago, mommysboy said: So when someone drinks a Chang beer, is it safe? In fact consumes anything by your reasoning. The whole point of legalisation and regulation is to ensure a safe product. Sorry, but that's a false premise. There are all kinds of products that are legal and regulated that aren't necessarily safe, depending on who's using them, how much they're using, etc etc. I wasn't posting here to advocate for or against the legalization of vaping products. But rather, to disagree with other posters and share credible medical sources that say in fact vaping can indeed be harmful to the users health, just as regular cigarettes and alcohol can be, though with vaping probably not to the same extent. But cigarettes and alcohol are legal and always have been for the most part. So clearly, the fact that something can be harmful to the public's health doesn't equate to it being illegal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, ukrules said: The formaldehyde thing came about after flawed tests years ago which heated the liquids to very hot temperatures for extended and continuous periods of time which is very unlike vaping. Lovely thing the internet where studies using equipment from the dark ages live on for years. Now that most mods have temp control and use stainless coils, such overheating won't happen. Of course, the haters will hate and dig up irrelevant museum pieces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rasg Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 6 hours ago, Swiss1960 said: That's ok, as long as they ban them from being used in the same places as the "real" cigarettes, e-smoke annoys, stinks and endangers in the same way as "real" smoke You obviously have no clue what you are talking about. It might annoy you but it endangers no one. The "smoke" as you call it is nothing more than water vapour. It's the stupid great vaping tanks that people carry around puffing out huge clouds of flavoured vapour that annoy people. My ecig is the same size of a normal cigarette and my wife tells me that when I exhale it smells of nothing. Just air. I ran out of the liquid that I buy a few months ago and bought another and she didn’t like it. Nor did I and couldn't wait for the courier to arrive to deliver my normal stuff. I've been vaping for over 8 years. Prior to vaping I couldn’t swim 100 yards without puffing like a train. Now a mile barely gets me out of breath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaDavid Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Swiss1960 said: That's ok, as long as they ban them from being used in the same places as the "real" cigarettes, e-smoke annoys, stinks and endangers in the same way as "real" smoke Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app Rubbish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulesMad Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, darksidedog said: Thailand Tobacco Monopoly has finally got its vape products ready to go to market I guess. No one seems to be able to come up with any other reason why they have been illegal thus far. They have been illegal thus far, because the powers-that-be did not know how to make money out of it. Now, someone gave them the idea that it can be taxed... Legal or illegal, money will be made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pilotman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, bluesofa said: Does it really? As a non-smoker I had no idea. I assumed (dangerous, I know) it didn't affect bystanders? Vaping is as irritating to me as smoking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The traveler Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Swiss1960 said: That's ok, as long as they ban them from being used in the same places as the "real" cigarettes, e-smoke annoys, stinks and endangers in the same way as "real" smoke Sent from my SM-A730F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app What about those who stinks sweat or parfume? They can still stand and be everywhere they want? The hate against smokers is so stupid, I can understand that smoking in the middle of a crowd is stupid and isn’t very popular but, standing away from everyone and smoke so no one is effect, like I always do, because is it’s about respect other human beings isn’t a problem, I don’t really like either when someone smokes near me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The traveler Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: From the U.S. Centers for Disease Control: https://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/basic_information/e-cigarettes/pdfs/Electronic-Cigarettes-Infographic-508.pdf Who cares, do what you want with your own body. everything cause cancer these days, do some research and you will see. talking to much, or laughing to much or smile to much does that cause cancer ?? the only reason everything on the planet earth is classified as dangerous, simply so the government can put a tax on it... corrupt govement and money greedy scientists= more tax money.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, The traveler said: Who cares, do what you want with your own body. everything cause cancer these days, do some research and you will see. talking to much, or laughing to much or smile to much does that cause cancer ?? the only reason everything on the planet earth is classified as dangerous, simply so the government can put a tax on it... corrupt govement and money greedy scientists= more tax money.. Sorry Thai Visa doesn't have a tin foil hat icon I could use to reply to you... Science and the professional medical community aren't perfect and have made mistakes in the past in their health/harm judgments. But I'm inclined to believe them in their conclusions about cigarette smoking after all the vast research that's been done, and at least watch with interest and concern about the evolving scientific inquiry into vaping. Overall, it's probably not as bad as traditional cigarette smoking. But that's a long, long way from having any reasonable basis to conclude vaping is safe and free of health harm. I don't think any reputable medical or scientific entity has come to such a conclusion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wabothai Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 7 hours ago, Vacuum said: What does it matter? Nowadays,the only place for smoking is in your own house/room, thanks to the 'anti smoking' mafia that are so concerned about their health. The thing is, they're eating themselves to death with their english/american breakfasts. The thing is, smoking kills, eating doesn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrTuner Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, wabothai said: The thing is, smoking kills, eating doesn't. Huh? https://www.nhs.uk/news/obesity/obesity-now-a-leading-cause-of-death-especially-in-men/ Anyway, you gotta die from something. Should at least be pleasurable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 27 minutes ago, The traveler said: E-cigs or to tobacco is dangerous, so what? My body, my choice For starters with cigarette smoking, it's NOT just your body, but the bodies of everyone around you due to the health effects of second-hand smoke, which have been well-documented. As for vaping, I haven't seen much on the potential second-hand effects from that. So, leaving that topic aside for the time being, I'll just point out that again, it's not just YOU, if in the end, you contract cancer or some other serious respiratory disease, and your government's national health care system (i.e., the public) ends up having to pay for the harm you've done to yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: For starters with cigarette smoking, it's NOT just your body, but the bodies of everyone around you due to the health effects of second-hand smoke, which have been well-documented. As for vaping, I haven't seen much on the potential second-hand effects from that. So, leaving that topic aside for the time being, I'll just point out that again, it's not just YOU, if in the end, you contract cancer or some other serious respiratory disease, and your government's national health care system (i.e., the public) ends up having to pay for the harm you've done to yourself. A lot of us have health insurance you know. Proper full and comprehensive health insurance which covers it all. Doesn't come cheap but you get what you pay for meaning no 'government help' is ever needed. Of course if you are a tax payer then you've paid for your treatment anyway as you are part of 'the public'. The argument that anything which costs 'the taxpayer' is bad and should be prevented if it can is the beginning of a road which leads to dark places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
observer90210 Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 In the first place, were the hundreds of Thais or foreigners selling these e-cigarettes on the streets, aware that they were illegal ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, ukrules said: Doesn't come cheap but you get what you pay for meaning no government help is ever needed. Yes, but I'd imagine, the share of Brits who never rely on NHS at some point in their lives is pretty small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gigman Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Anyone wants to spread bad info about nicotine better educate yourselves from sources where still honest scientists have something to say. Don't mix effect of breathing cigarette smoke containing nicotine with other chemicals with clean nicotine which is used in e-cigarettes. A lot of users of e-cigarettes do not use nicotine in the liquid at all. Below ingredients are approved food components. ............ ............ .......... E-liquid is the mixture used in vapor products such as e-cigarettes and generally consists of propylene glycol,glycerin, water, nicotine, and flavorings. While the ingredients vary the liquid typically contains 95%propylene glycol and glycerin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TallGuyJohninBKK Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Just now, gigman said: ............ ............ .......... E-liquid is the mixture used in vapor products such as e-cigarettes and generally consists of propylene glycol,glycerin, water, nicotine, and flavorings. While the ingredients vary the liquid typically contains 95%propylene glycol and glycerin. The medical community disagrees with your opinion. And, as should be obvious, it's not just the starting ingredients that matter, but what they become and what elements are created through the heating and vaporization process, since that's what actually goes into people's lungs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ukrules Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said: Yes, but I'd imagine, the share of Brits who never rely on NHS at some point in their lives is pretty small. Yes, you're probably right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mommysboy Posted November 9, 2018 Share Posted November 9, 2018 Beginning to wonder if this is not fake news. Can anyone find it reported elsewhere or the original article? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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