Family blame police in Nakhon Phanom after chase results in death of helmet-less son, 14

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, VYCM said:

The kid was involved in criminal activity – police pursuit, anyone who runs a police stop is a thug.
14 yo chased by police, where has he learnt this bad behaviour, from parents and friends, thugs training thugs.

Criminal activity?

 

Are you referring to this child not wearing a helmet?

 

Because let me tell you, that is not thuggish behaviour. 

[KevinboyCM]

3 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

I think that you are correct tho' I don't think that in the West the behaviour is all due to condign punishment.

 

From the time of Thomas Hobbes onwards it has been recognized that government operates to a political and social contract-namely that of "The greatest good for the greatest number" and the population generally agrees with that approach as a rational alternative to sheer anarchy.What we see here is the arbitrary,unpredictable use of power-which can be ignored 99% of the time and is without any major effect on the prevailing social contract.

 

The effective use of power is based on collusion as well as coercion.

You are partly correct. Hobbes approach only works in a democracy. Thailand is run by a corrupt system arbitrarily enforcing their laws on whomever and whenever they wish. This kid paid the price for that rogue decision by the rogue cop. And I say rogue because 99 out of 100 cops wouldn't have bothered. What the kid did was wrong but he did it because the system said it was ok to do so.  That is what quite a few of the posters here seem to miss.  If the cops chased ever person who ran a checkpoint (still haven't read that anywhere) then doubtful anyone would run checkpoints. Only an idiot would refute that.  

Edited November 28, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[Cricky]

10 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

15 minutes ago, VYCM said:

The kid was involved in criminal activity – police pursuit, anyone who runs a police stop is a thug.
14 yo chased by police, where has he learnt this bad behaviour, from parents and friends, thugs training thugs.

Criminal activity?

 

Are you referring to this child not wearing a helmet?

 

Because let me tell you, that is not thuggish behaviour. 

Do you live in Thailand, I assume no.

Children are never pulled over with or without a helmet.

 

The kid must have done something very wrong for a police pursuit

[Bluespunk]

23 minutes ago, VYCM said:

Do you live in Thailand, I assume no.

Children are never pulled over with or without a helmet.

 

The kid must have done something very wrong for a police pursuit

Your assumptions are wrong. 

 

So you are guessing then, when you say this child was a thug. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by Bluespunk

[KevinboyCM]

13 hours ago, scandream said:

What should the whole story of this family? The police really did not act criminally, blaming them is a joke! Policemen are only doing their jobs, including stating that helmless motorcyclists are being stopped, warned, or being punished. All was correct!  For the police expenses resulting from this incident, even the youngster's family should be prosecuted for neglecting their parental duty to ensure, for such further cases, that such a boy would not even get on a motorcycle, let alone drive without a helmet. furthermore, it is absolutely irresponsible to be on the road without driver's license and insurance cover.

Come on. It is a joke. The police only enforce the laws a few days a month for the bribes and income to pay the top dogs. So the question is why do they not enforce it 24/7 if so important?  A total joke. 

[Vacuum]

20 hours ago, IamNoone88 said:

Never have I seen a headline that says "Family blames themselves ...... " in Thailand.

And you never will, as Thais always blame someone else, never ever themselves.

[Vacuum]

20 hours ago, KevinboyCM said:

I have never read so much hypocrisy here in my life from the posters.  Praising the cops for doing their job. What a joke.  Neither the government nor the cops give a rat's assss if you wear a helmut or not. They could solve the problem in a day if they were serious.  But if they solved the problem the bribes and fines would end so come on, it is what it is.

 

I have seen countless number of times riders with no helmuts in front of me go right thru a roadblock full of cops. Never once have I seen a cop go after anyone. It is beyond reason why this cop would chase this guy.  

 

In Viet Nam everyone wears a helmut. Gee, I wonder why?  Could it be because the law is enforced?  Why don't the Thai cops enforce the law all day long?  You have to be pretty dumb not to know the answer to that. 

It has nothing to do with wearing "helmuts" or not. Him fleeing away from the checkpoint was the reason for the chase.

[MaksimMislavsky]

22 hours ago, VYCM said:

I really think you're missing the point.

 

Police need to take action, the road toll is horrendous and needs to be fixed.

 

Allowing thugs to not respect the law, to disregard checkpoints, you're encouraging bad behaviour and also more deaths on our roads.

No I'm not missing anything. As others have already noted, the young lad wasn't endangering anyone but himself. Chasing him down to death was by far more dangerous, violent, and destructive than him riding helmetless. They just needlessly added yet another victim to the road toll.

[Cricky]

8 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

the young lad wasn't endangering anyone but himself

Riding at high speed on public roads is endangering all public.

 

 

8 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

Chasing him down to death was by far more dangerous

this was the kids decision.

 

there are 1000's of riders avoiding checkpoints/police stops everyday, not stopping or avoiding these checkpoints puts the police and the others at risk.

8 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

They just needlessly added yet another victim to the road toll.

Ok, let all the lawbreakers getaway with their offences, the roads will be much safer won't they!!!!

 

As I said earlier, kids never get pulled over, this kid must have been a bad egg for the police to chase.

 

The policeman was doing the right thing - good job.

[CharlieH]

I may be wrong, but if a person fails to stop for a very minor offence, it begs the question why?, what else is he trying to hide ? which may have been the Policeman's reason for pursuit, reasonable suspicion ! 

 

Tragic the boy lost his life, BUT he was a danger to everyone by fleeing, would the parents be so quick to shout if the boy had hit a child crossing the road and killed or severely disabled someone ? probably not. 

 

Justified and reasonable Police action, and he lost his life by reckless conduct.(IMHO)

[MaksimMislavsky]

5 minutes ago, VYCM said:

this was the kids decision.

fear must of been a factor to it. and he was just a kid.

 

5 minutes ago, VYCM said:

let all the lawbreakers getaway with their offences,

gravity of the offence must be a factor, again. the chase itself was the most public-endangering act in the whole event. 
 

14 minutes ago, VYCM said:

As I said earlier, kids never get pulled over,

disputable statement

 

that's all my personal opinion. I get your point, but cannot agree.

[Cricky]

4 minutes ago, MaksimMislavsky said:

19 minutes ago, VYCM said:

this was the kids decision.

fear must of been a factor to it. and he was just a kid.

 

19 minutes ago, VYCM said:

let all the lawbreakers getaway with their offences,

gravity of the offence must be a factor, again. the chase itself was the most public-endangering act in the whole event. 
 

19 minutes ago, VYCM said:

As I said earlier, kids never get pulled over,

disputable statement

 

that's all my personal opinion. I get your point, but cannot agree.

fear must of been a factor to it. and he was just a kid.

- Mate, id be sh!tting myself too if the cops were chasing me, doesn't make it right for the kid to do a runner.

 

gravity of the offence must be a factor, again. the chase itself was the most public-endangering act in the whole event. 

- yes, this event that was the kids decision, if he had of stopped he would still be alive.

 

disputable statement

- mate, go for a drive down the Sukhumvit just after school closing time, lots of kids on bikes, no helmets, 2, 3, 4 on a bike, they never get pulled, I have seen this many times over and over. 

A good example is the checkpoint outside Na Jomtien, heading north after the Ambassador Hotel, only the other day I was traveling alongside a woman with a child on a bike, kids ahead were allowed through while myself and the lady got pulled asked for our licence.

[Longstaff]

 

21 hours ago, Longstaff said:

Did you bother to read the original post?

"He was chased because he was not wearing a helmet and refused to stop."

21 hours ago, Media1 said:

And who cares. His a kid. Use your brains.

Media1, I think we are on the same team here, but I'm not sure you read my original post....

[MaksimMislavsky]

39 minutes ago, VYCM said:

mate, go for a drive down the Sukhumvit just after school closing time, lots of kids on bikes, no helmets, 2, 3, 4 on a bike, they never get pulled, I have seen this many times over and over.

I used to drive my fair share in Bangkok. Personally witnessed police stopping lots of young riders in the middle of Onnut Street (Suk 77) the stretch between Suk and Srinakarin. Looked like they were the preferred target.

"After school closing time" the police can be more lenient, agree on this. 

 

And no, I'm not saying the kid was right. But dangerously chasing him down to death for minor offence by presumably responsible adult in a law-enforcing position was not the best thing to do, either. 

Edited November 28, 2018 by MaksimMislavsky

[Longstaff]

25 minutes ago, VYCM said:

fear must of been a factor to it. and he was just a kid.

- Mate, id be sh!tting myself too if the cops were chasing me, doesn't make it right for the kid to do a runner.

 

gravity of the offence must be a factor, again. the chase itself was the most public-endangering act in the whole event. 

- yes, this event that was the kids decision, if he had of stopped he would still be alive.

 

disputable statement

- mate, go for a drive down the Sukhumvit just after school closing time, lots of kids on bikes, no helmets, 2, 3, 4 on a bike, they never get pulled, I have seen this many times over and over. 

A good example is the checkpoint outside Na Jomtien, heading north after the Ambassador Hotel, only the other day I was traveling alongside a woman with a child on a bike, kids ahead were allowed through while myself and the lady got pulled asked for our licence.

May i suggest you read the post above by KevinboyCM. The chance that this cop was acting in a well considered, planned and systematic way to eradicate some sort of unacceptable behaviour (not wearing a helmet / failing to stop) as part of an overall Thai Police initiative to consistently apply the law, is utterly ludicrous...and you confirm this in your last sentence above. Your reasoning is flawed. The kid wasn't wearing a helmet and failed to stop as thousands of people do every day and get away with it. It seems the cop randomly chose to pursue this lad, forgetting altogether about the safety of all involved and innocent bystanders, and this led to the tragic death of a teenager. Bad judgement call by a hot-headed cop who should have been able to foresee the potential outcome. There are multiple causes behind this incident (see my earlier post), including the boys stupidity, but one thing is almost certain....the boy would be alive today if the cop had not chased him; and the consequences of letting him go within the Thai context.....totally insignificant.

[jaiyen]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:23 PM, ThreeEyedRaven said:

It is notable that in many civilised countries, police have been told to back off when high speed pursuits begin, even when stolen cars are involved, on the grounds that it ends in too many unnecessary deaths. I note the article states he was chased because he had no helmet. Perhaps you think that such a heinous crime is sufficient to warrant an untimely death. From a small locale, and undoubtedly having his registration, they could have caught up with him at their leisure and he would still be alive.

Get your facts right. He was not being chased  He was being followed ! The term the police now use is "Pursuit" It was the boy who set the speed at which he wanted to ride at after refusing to stop at a Police checkpoint, which is an offence. he was in the wrong and not capable of riding a small bike. One of many stupid Thai kids whose stupidity gets them, and sometimes others killed.

[Cricky]

3 hours ago, jaiyen said:

Get your facts right. He was not being chased  He was being followed ! The term the police now use is "Pursuit" It was the boy who set the speed at which he wanted to ride at after refusing to stop at a Police checkpoint, which is an offence. he was in the wrong and not capable of riding a small bike. One of many stupid Thai kids whose stupidity gets them, and sometimes others killed.

Well said. 

 

Im not sure if you will get through to the imbeciles, seems to be a lot of non educated posts here,as usual. 

[chama]

Yep, those darn police forced their child to ride without a helmet and then forced him to run when he was supposed to stop. Many of the RTP are scoundrels, but they cannot be blamed for bad parenting in this case. The parents should have taught this kid to follow the law and he'd still be walking around today.

[White Christmas13]

On 11/27/2018 at 6:01 PM, KevinboyCM said:

Are you saying those Thais who do not wear helmuts have no brains? If so how can you blame them for not wearing a helmut?

I think it would be pretty hard to wear a German male on your hat ????

[Sydebolle]

What's the price of a helm-less son these days? 

[thesetat2013]

On 11/27/2018 at 12:23 PM, ThreeEyedRaven said:

It is notable that in many civilised countries, police have been told to back off when high speed pursuits begin, even when stolen cars are involved, on the grounds that it ends in too many unnecessary deaths. I note the article states he was chased because he had no helmet. Perhaps you think that such a heinous crime is sufficient to warrant an untimely death. From a small locale, and undoubtedly having his registration, they could have caught up with him at their leisure and he would still be alive.

actually the story said they tried to stop him at a checkpoint for not wearing a helmet. They gave chase when he ran. Any civilised country police force would do the same. How are the police to know his registration? the plates are on the rear if he had plates. How are the police to track him down at their leisure?  How do the police know his age or if he ran because he was carrying drugs or weapons or a wanted criminal? 

Your logic is very odd for a foreigner whose laws are more strict than in Thailand.  The boys death is tragic but he and his family are responsible for it happening. The police were only doing their work in this case.  

As for the suit against the police? It's disgraceful for the family to use the death of their son to gain compensation. However, it is Thais culture that forces them to lay blame on others and then seek compensation. 

[Russell17au]

There are a lot of people commenting on here and wrongfully blaming the police officer for doing his lawful duty. But they are not blaming the boys parents who bought the bike for an underage unlicenced rider in the first place and many are saying that he was only a boy and had the maturity of a child, then who in their right mind would give an underage unlicenced boy with the maturity of a child a motorbike to ride on the public road. If you believe that the police are to blame for this and not the boys parents and the boy himself then you are the type of people that have no regard for the laws and you would do the same thing as this boys parents did and then blame everyone else but not look at your own stupid immature attitude and to those that say they would assault the police officer really does show that some people are just only interested in themselves and violence. These people would not educate their children to do the right thing and obey the laws because it surely shows that these people do not give a rats about the laws and would prefer to turn to assault than to admit that they were wrong in their own actions in educating their children to obey the law.

Edited November 29, 2018 by Russell17au

[JimP]

On 11/28/2018 at 9:27 AM, smileydude said:

The mindset and rationale of some Thai parent’s on how to raise or deal with their children is disturbingly distorted.

 

I knew a female taxi driver who was also head of a “motorcycle taxi stand”  and she had this son who was a juvenile delinquent.  Starting at about the age of 11 he refused to go to school and then later joined those “Dek Van” motorcycle racing gangs.

 

I asked her why she didn’t intervene and she told me she couldn’t control him or do anything about.

 

At the age of 13 he got into an accident and broke his arm and she asked me to help take care of him (as I worked at the hospital).  I visited him and tried to advise him that its very dangerous and that he should try to focus on his studies for his own future.

 

1 year later he got into a more serious motorcycle accident this time unconscious with cerebral hemorrhage.

His Mom was screaming in the ER why people weren’t doing more to help her son as she thought just because she knows me she has the right to pull off a “I know the hospital director crap”.

 

I checked the facts and his condition was so serious we needed to refer him to a hospital with an advanced neurosurgery department.  He had a 50-50 chance of survival.  We immediately coordinated with the other hospital, transferred him and they did surgery on him within 12 hrs.  He survived.

 

I told the mother that it was not right to chastise the ER or hospital staff.  I let her know that her son’s recklessness and her own decisions on how to raise her son were the reasons that he was in such a dire situation and they only had themselves to blame and to no longer ask me for favors.

 

I had hoped they both learned their lesson but from what I’ve been told he is now an 18 year old part time motorcycle taxi driver/street racer.  Oh and btw he also impregnated some teenage girl when she was 15.

 

Wuh da fudge ????!!!!!   (facepalm)

Some people you can't help because they are helplessly stupid.

[KevinboyCM]

Gee, I wonder why these kids think they can do this?  Um? Could it be because the cops in Tland don't give a <deleted>? Answer: Yes

 

So no wonder the kid ran thru a checkpoint.  Now maybe all the cop apologists here can explain to me why you see this stuff every single day in Thailand?

[KevinboyCM]

4 hours ago, Russell17au said:

There are a lot of people commenting on here and wrongfully blaming the police officer for doing his lawful duty. But they are not blaming the boys parents who bought the bike for an underage unlicenced rider in the first place and many are saying that he was only a boy and had the maturity of a child, then who in their right mind would give an underage unlicenced boy with the maturity of a child a motorbike to ride on the public road. If you believe that the police are to blame for this and not the boys parents and the boy himself then you are the type of people that have no regard for the laws and you would do the same thing as this boys parents did and then blame everyone else but not look at your own stupid immature attitude and to those that say they would assault the police officer really does show that some people are just only interested in themselves and violence. These people would not educate their children to do the right thing and obey the laws because it surely shows that these people do not give a rats about the laws and would prefer to turn to assault than to admit that they were wrong in their own actions in educating their children to obey the law.

The people don't care about the laws because the cops don't enforce them. Simple as that. No other explanation.  I ride on the sidewalks now too. I go thru the red lights too. I ride down the wrong lane too. I don't give a fluck anymore. And I've passed the cops when doing it. They don't care dude. This was a Rambo act by a rogue cop who probably had a bad day and decided to try to be a big dick.

Edited November 29, 2018 by KevinboyCM

[ALFREDO]

On 11/27/2018 at 11:23 AM, ThreeEyedRaven said:

It is notable that in many civilised countries, police have been told to back off when high speed pursuits begin, even when stolen cars are involved, on the grounds that it ends in too many unnecessary deaths. I note the article states he was chased because he had no helmet. Perhaps you think that such a heinous crime is sufficient to warrant an untimely death. From a small locale, and undoubtedly having his registration, they could have caught up with him at their leisure and he would still be alive.

 

On 11/27/2018 at 11:33 PM, ALFREDO said:

If there is only a minor problem or wrongdoing same not wearing a helmet is

and the driver does not stop at a check point and a number plate is on the motorbike and can be read,

then is any pursuit unnecessary and dangerous for all involved and innocent bystanders too.

Some US districts forbid (high) speed chases for minor offences. 

See the LINK.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2015/07/30/police-pursuits-fatal-injuries/30187827/

 

I drove threw checkpoints in Thailand at least twice with Big Bike, had number plate on bike owned by me, but not in my name and was not followed, I believe they would anyway not have the right vehicle to do it and I did not get any problems, seems they did not pursue the case.

Made it similar in my home country by car, was followed some time, got away - but as they had my number plate it did cost me a little. ????

ThreeEyedRaven - Completely right  ????

[0815]

On 11/27/2018 at 10:15 AM, darksidedog said:

To be quite honest, I feel the police in traffic stops are often way too gung ho in their actions. I have seen them drag people off a speeding bike, regardless of the potential injury it can cause. And for what? Minor traffic offences. I fully agree the boy should have been wearing a helmet, but to chase a kid causing an accident that kills the lad over a bloody helmet is wrong. If he had been a wanted murderer, or some other serious offence it would be acceptable, but for this they are out or order in my book.

Could it be possible that this was not the first runner of Mr. Wannabe HiSo's son ?

[Sumarianson]

If every person without a helmet in Thailand was involved in a police chase! The deth toll would be off the charts. Stupid reason to chase a person.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[xylophone]

On ‎11‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 8:02 PM, chama said:

Many of the RTP are scoundrels, but they cannot be blamed for bad parenting in this case. The parents should have taught this kid to follow the law and he'd still be walking around today.

Way before we get to the actual accident scene other things have taken place which are the real cause of death in this case...…..

 

A child is allowed to ride a motorbike when he is too young to do so, and when he hasn't had training or got a licence to enable him to be on the road.

 

He did not wear a helmet.

 

Doubtful then that his parents taught him road skills or the need for safety and to wear a helmet, but he still sets out regardless. Of course if they had done their job properly he would not have been allowed anywhere near the bike.

 

All of the real mistakes were made BEFORE the police became involved, and were made by the parents, no two ways about it.

 

"Teach your children well...………." was Crosby & Stills song from way back and these parents didn't.

[Cricky]

1 hour ago, Sumarianson said:

If every person without a helmet in Thailand was involved in a police chase! The deth toll would be off the charts. Stupid reason to chase a person.

Sent from my SM-G935F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Yep, obviously, it’s evident the kid was a bad egg. Kids never get pulled up or chased.