UK Pensions (2018)

[transam]

49 minutes ago, bert bloggs said:

Well i reckon Trendy does not pass on information to the pension service or there would be lots of pensioners posting that they had been caught when they renewed their passport i reckon.

Trendy sends all the PP page copies on to the UK, all Trendy does is make sure paperwork is in order. Who knows what happens with all that paper when it gets to the UK. After all I cannot understand why they want every page scanned just to be chucked in a bin..

 

[evadgib]

17 hours ago, nchuckle said:

Under government connect various departments do indeed legally share your information between themselves. I lost my heating allowance (administer separately)after  I reported to HMRC I was moving abroad so I could get my rental paid gross. Renew your passport over here via Trendy and they can  get to know . Data protection does not apply 

It applies within it's parameters. Anyone in doubt can fire off an FoI request to see for themselves whereas anyone who feels they have been hard done by can refer the matter to the Investigative Powers Tribunal. During my own dalliances with the latter I was somewhat shocked to discover that in more than a thousand cases referred to the IPT only SIX had found in favour of the claimant but there have been a few more successes since.

HTH

[BobbyL]

Interesting thread this. 

 

I recently started making voluntary NI contributions towards my state pension from my UK bank account which still requires another 29 years of contributions. I haven't worked in the UK since 2017 as a teacher and now live in Bangkok with my wife and work at an international school.

 

Here is a question that I have tried to Google but there is no definitive answer. If I do not return to the UK to work again, yet continue to pay the voluntary NI contributions for the remainder of my working life (I am 30), then potentially that could all be for nothing as they will freeze my pension to what little amount it was in 2017 when I left? 

[transam]

6 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Interesting thread this. 

 

I recently started making voluntary NI contributions towards my state pension from my UK bank account which still requires another 29 years of contributions. I haven't worked in the UK since 2017 as a teacher and now live in Bangkok with my wife and work at an international school.

 

Here is a question that I have tried to Google but there is no definitive answer. If I do not return to the UK to work again, yet continue to pay the voluntary NI contributions for the remainder of my working life (I am 30), then potentially that could all be for nothing as they will freeze my pension to what little amount it was in 2017 when I left? 

I think a phone call to pensions service would be a good idea...I did a while back and they were very helpful....

[BobbyL]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

I think a phone call to pensions service would be a good idea...I did a while back and they were very helpful....

I think you're right. Thanks. 

[cleopatra2]

38 minutes ago, BobbyL said:

Interesting thread this. 

 

I recently started making voluntary NI contributions towards my state pension from my UK bank account which still requires another 29 years of contributions. I haven't worked in the UK since 2017 as a teacher and now live in Bangkok with my wife and work at an international school.

 

Here is a question that I have tried to Google but there is no definitive answer. If I do not return to the UK to work again, yet continue to pay the voluntary NI contributions for the remainder of my working life (I am 30), then potentially that could all be for nothing as they will freeze my pension to what little amount it was in 2017 when I left? 

Under current rules, your pension cannot be frozen at 2017 rates because no such entitlement to a pension exist at the moment.

 

The pension entitlement only arises on reaching the state pension age.

 

See Pension Act section 2

[billzant]

Sir Peter Bottomley is from APPG parliamentary group http://frozenbritishpensions.org/. It says in the minutes of this recent meeting http://frozenbritishpensions.org/appg-meeting-19th-march-2019/ that he was going to put forward the EDM. There appears a disconnect with ICBP.

 

I prefer the solution put forward by the APPG, http://frozenbritishpensions.org/a-solution/, there is no Commonwealth differentiation.

[dabhand]

The Guardian has picked up on the SI issue regarding the lumping of Frozen Pensions with increases in benefits. Hopefully a separation will gain some traction.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/14/frozen-state-pensions-mps-call-for-vote-on-cruel-policy

[evadgib]

Here's mine ????

Quote

Dear *** *******,

As a voter with family in your constituency, I request that you support Sir Peter Bottomly's EDM 2265 which is to pray against Social Security Benefits Up-rating Regulations 2019 S.I. 2019, No. 552. Further details are explained in this link:

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2019/apr/14/frozen-state-pensions-mps-call-for-vote-on-cruel-policy

I appreciate that this Statutory Instrument covers more than frozen pensions and that to pray against it will adversely affect others.  However, this is the fault of the government in their attempt to manipulate MPs into continuing to vote to freeze the pensions of 510,000 British pensioners.  A vote to freeze pensions, or otherwise, should be separated from other totally unrelated social security benefits.

Please lend your support to the EDM and please encourage your colleagues to do likewise.

Sincerely,

 

[BobbyL]

19 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

Under current rules, your pension cannot be frozen at 2017 rates because no such entitlement to a pension exist at the moment.

 

The pension entitlement only arises on reaching the state pension age.

 

See Pension Act section 2

Thanks. 

[p414]

21 hours ago, BobbyL said:

Interesting thread this. 

 

I recently started making voluntary NI contributions towards my state pension from my UK bank account which still requires another 29 years of contributions. I haven't worked in the UK since 2017 as a teacher and now live in Bangkok with my wife and work at an international school.

 

Here is a question that I have tried to Google but there is no definitive answer. If I do not return to the UK to work again, yet continue to pay the voluntary NI contributions for the remainder of my working life (I am 30), then potentially that could all be for nothing as they will freeze my pension to what little amount it was in 2017 when I left? 

You pension will be paid in full when you RETIRE..it will be frozen in Thailand from that day on..You can receive full pension should you holiday in England but will revert back to the sum when you first retired should you leave England again.

 

[evadgib]

Stock answer received in reply (word for word identical to others that have appeared elsewhere & NOT actually addressing the EDM issue!) :

Quote

The UK State Pension is payable worldwide and is uprated abroad where there is a legal requirement to do so. In some countries, however, there is no agreement with the UK for securing the social security rights of people moving between the two countries. As a result, pensioners who move to these countries still receive the State Pension but do not have their payments uprated as they would be for UK residents. The Department for Work and Pensions endeavours to make this clear to those thinking of moving abroad and publishes guidance on its website. 
 
It has been and remains the policy of successive governments not to enter into new agreements with countries or territories where this would include up-rating pensions in order to contain the long-term cost of the UK social security system. I can tell you that this issue has been examined extensively by the domestic courts, culminating in a ruling by the European Court of Human Rights in 2010. In all these cases the courts have found in favour of the Government. 
 
I appreciate this is not what you wanted to hear, but I hope this helps explain why the situation is as it is

Mods: Why is there a separate thread covering UK pensions instead of being in here?

[sandyf]

On 4/15/2019 at 7:56 PM, evadgib said:

Dear ICBP Supporter, Having said we were putting things on hold until the Brexit mess is out of the picture, things keep coming our way. Sir Peter Bottomley has put down an Early Day Motion to pray against the Statutory Instrument which automatically continues the freezing of our pensions, usually with most MPs being unaware of what is being done in their names. This is a chance to correct the farce.  Below is the e-mail I have written to my MP.  If you wish, please use it as a guide to write to MPs and, more particularly, get U.K. voters to write to their MPs.   As a voter in your constituency, I request that you support EDM 2265 which is to pray against Social Security Benefits Up-rating Regulations 2019 S.I. 2019, No. 552.   I appreciate that this Statutory Instrument covers more than frozen pensions and that to pray against it will adversely affect others.  However, this is the fault of the government in their attempt to manipulate MPs into continuing to vote to freeze the pensions of 510,000 British pensioners.  A vote to freeze pensions, or otherwise, should be separated from other totally unrelated social security benefits.   Please lend your support to the EDM and please encourage your colleagues to do likewise. If we get enough MPs to support this EDM we may, at last, get a genuine debate on frozen pensions in the House of Commons.  Don't let this chance slip though our fingers. John J Duffy - Chairman, ICBP

The issue has come up previously in EDMs. A few years back I wrote to my MP and got some pathetic reply about supporting the view but could not participate in the EDM. She was Labour, easy to express support when not in power.

[sandyf]

6 minutes ago, evadgib said:

Stock answer received in reply (word for word identical to others that have appeared elsewhere & NOT actually addressing the EDM issue!) :

Mods: Why is there a separate thread covering UK pensions instead of being in here?

"It has been and remains the policy of successive governments not to enter into new agreements with countries or territories where this would include up-rating pensions in order to contain the long-term cost of the UK social security system."

 

That is not entirely true. The decision to not allow uprating to people living abroad was part of the original setup in the UK state pension and applied to everyone.

For many years governments made reciprocal agreements with other countries. After over 40 years they decided to stop making any further agreements but it is highly likely there will be one "new" agreement in the brexit farce.

The brexit waste could have resolved the frozen pension issue once and for all.

[solo46]

22 hours ago, cleopatra2 said:

See Pension Act section 2

looks as if quite a few posters not reading pension act. 

 

You were right re.jail.NHS in patient does require notification  admission/discharge.

 

   However pensions act states no fraud can be attached to recipient of pension,(punishment/sanction are the words)  likewise no penalty rendered....its all there read it...make a complete nonsense of the crap following on from page one on 'getting found out'

Voluntary supplying information is no more than a turkey voting for Christmas..most replies here are the work of the green eyed monster at work   ie... jealousy

   Just read the pensions act,its all there

[solo46]

On 4/13/2019 at 3:44 AM, Pilotman said:

It is only frozen as you put it, if you are no longer normally resident in the UK. Beware thinking that you are 'normally resident' in Thailand, you are not, at least not unless you do gain that status here, or become a Citizen. .  Any extension of stay here is merely a temporary permission to stay in Thailand for a period of 12 months, it is not a permanent residency.  That being so, if you tell the UK authorities that you are now not resident in the UK, but normally resident in Thailand, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.  Others will no doubt tell you that this is against the spirit and actuality of the law. As far as I know, this has not been tested in the UK Counts. My advice would be to maintain a UK address, maintain your place on the Electoral Roll, keep your UK bank, return to the UK every now and again, but no less than once every two extensions of stay (to maintain residency)  and come to Asia on an extended holiday.  

This is a good post,yes massive disservice is understatement,after i should think 3 years of being frozen sleepless nights,4 plus years with compounding nightmares... it adds up to 10% loss of income   10years 50% loss   Stated' never tested in court'   yes it has DWP took a couple or people to court  ,put the frighteners on sorta speak,....that confident of losing the DWP never turned up at the hearing,cannot exactly say DWP lost more of a withdrawal as floodgates would be opened

[transam]

8 minutes ago, solo46 said:

looks as if quite a few posters not reading pension act. 

 

You were right re.jail.NHS in patient does require notification  admission/discharge.

 

   However pensions act states no fraud can be attached to recipient of pension,(punishment/sanction are the words)  likewise no penalty rendered....its all there read it...make a complete nonsense of the crap following on from page one on 'getting found out'

Voluntary supplying information is no more than a turkey voting for Christmas..most replies here are the work of the green eyed monster at work   ie... jealousy

   Just read the pensions act,its all there

That is incorrect....UK pensions are deemed a benefit of which you must tell them all. If you do not then that is fraud as you are taking benefit money that maybe more than you are due.

[solo46]

1 minute ago, transam said:

That is incorrect....UK pensions are deemed a benefit of which you must tell them all. If you do not then that is fraud as you are taking benefit money that maybe more than you are due.

Anyone for the Titanic  LOL  LOL    Just read the pensions act(if you can)  just read it.       Yes deemed 'benefit'  a non 'if found out' non-sanctionable.  You can notify all you want,but a non punishable, would become a laughing stock Cannot,(stop/ adjust benefit  (Their words)  ,it is the DWP that would be breaking the law   but not you suggest   lol       Anything else?   lol

[vinny41]

Freedom of Information request received on 22 July 2013

Can you advise me the number of benefit fraudsters living outside the UK that was 
detected last year? 

 Continuing to claim benefits after moving abroad and failing to declare the change of 
address to a country outside Britain. 
  Claiming benefits whilst abroad and being entitled to do so but failing to declare a change 
of circumstances whilst abroad. 
  Claiming benefits simultaneously in Britain and in another country.  
  Third Party abroad fraud which is when a third party in Britain is receiving benefit payments 
for a benefit customer who is living abroad and has failed to notify the Department of the 
change in the country of residence.  

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/169835/response/417124/attach/html/3/FOI Response 3432.pdf.html

[solo46]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Freedom of Information request received on 22 July 2013

Can you advise me the number of benefit fraudsters living outside the UK that was 
detected last year? 

 Continuing to claim benefits after moving abroad and failing to declare the change of 
address to a country outside Britain. 
  Claiming benefits whilst abroad and being entitled to do so but failing to declare a change 
of circumstances whilst abroad. 
  Claiming benefits simultaneously in Britain and in another country.  
  Third Party abroad fraud which is when a third party in Britain is receiving benefit payments 
for a benefit customer who is living abroad and has failed to notify the Department of the 
change in the country of residence.  

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/169835/response/417124/attach/html/3/FOI Response 3432.pdf.html

I do indeed hope it was helpful     keep reading the pensions act...and may I add  specifically Old Age Pensions,do not generalise

[vinny41]

21 minutes ago, solo46 said:

Anyone for the Titanic  LOL  LOL    Just read the pensions act(if you can)  just read it.       Yes deemed 'benefit'  a non 'if found out' non-sanctionable.  You can notify all you want,but a non punishable, would become a laughing stock Cannot,(stop/ adjust benefit  (Their words)  ,it is the DWP that would be breaking the law   but not you suggest   lol       Anything else?   lol

n the financial year April 2012 to March 2013 the Department for Work and Pensions recorded 
2,103 outcomes with the offence type Abroad Fraud as described above where either a 
penalty was applied and/or a recoverable overpayment was identified. Criminal outcomes from 
these investigations were as follows: 101 prosecutions, 47 administrative penalties and 32 
formal cautions.  

[vinny41]

Pensions Act 2014

Overseas residents

(1)Regulations may provide that an overseas resident who is entitled to a state pension under this Part is not entitled to up-rating increases.

(2)In this section “overseas resident” means a person who is not ordinarily resident in Great Britain or any other territory specified in the regulations.

(3)Regulations under this section do not affect the rate of an overseas resident's state pension for any period during which he or she is in Great Britain or a territory specified in the regulations (but once the overseas resident ceases to be in Great Britain or a specified territory the rate reverts to what it would have been had he or she not been in Great Britain or a specified territory).

(4)Regulations under this section do not affect the rate of a person's state pension once the person stops being an overseas resident.

You're automatically non-resident if either: you spent fewer than 16 days in the UK (or 46 days if you haven't been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous tax years) you work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than91 days in the UK, of which no more than 30 were spent working.

 

 

 

[solo46]

On 4/15/2019 at 9:40 AM, maxcorrigan said:

In my case i did not tell them i was living in Thailand, about 10 months later my UK pension stopped dead, i contacted them via post as to to why this had happened, they said letters sent my old address had been returned, and to give my new address which i did, giving my Thai address, (as i had no other) they were very civil, i was not fined or asked to return the money overpaid, just my weekly pension dropped backed to where it was before i moved to Thailand since an yearly increase had happened in the above mentioned, i think it's very unfair to not get the paltry annual increase, which if you lived in Singapore you get, but not in Thailand!

Yes,this is the response you will always get,no fining,no money repaid,but it is there in the rules,they were doing you no favours.  My friend died in Thailand,been here 20 or so years unfrozen,took 3 years off his bereavement payment for wither fuel payments as amends.   The only fraud here would be his widow attempting to stuff his body under the floorboards to continue receiving his benefits

[billd766]

15 hours ago, evadgib said:

Here's mine ????

 

I borrowed your letter, changed some of the details and sent it off this morning.

 

Thanks ????

[solo46]

4 minutes ago, vinny41 said:

Pensions Act 2014

Overseas residents

(1)Regulations may provide that an overseas resident who is entitled to a state pension under this Part is not entitled to up-rating increases.

(2)In this section “overseas resident” means a person who is not ordinarily resident in Great Britain or any other territory specified in the regulations.

(3)Regulations under this section do not affect the rate of an overseas resident's state pension for any period during which he or she is in Great Britain or a territory specified in the regulations (but once the overseas resident ceases to be in Great Britain or a specified territory the rate reverts to what it would have been had he or she not been in Great Britain or a specified territory).

(4)Regulations under this section do not affect the rate of a person's state pension once the person stops being an overseas resident.

You're automatically non-resident if either: you spent fewer than 16 days in the UK (or 46 days if you haven't been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous tax years) you work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than91 days in the UK, of which no more than 30 were spent working.

 

 

 

You can and indeed bang on all you want to,and sincerely I hope you do,but it does appear you are mixing up taxation/pension        I am confident and quite quite comfortable with previous post    no fining,no money reclaimed     no effects whatever     again  specifically read the Old Age pension act   do not generalist   I agree with what you say if Pension Credits are referred to

[transam]

1 minute ago, solo46 said:

You can and indeed bang on all you want to,and sincerely I hope you do,but it does appear you are mixing up taxation/pension        I am confident and quite quite comfortable with previous post    no fining,no money reclaimed     no effects whatever     again  specifically read the Old Age pension act   do not generalist   I agree with what you say if Pension Credits are referred to

Do you live in a "Non reciprocal agreement" country regarding your state pension (if you have one)....?

[solo46]

1 hour ago, solo46 said:

looks as if quite a few posters not reading pension act. 

 

You were right re.jail.NHS in patient does require notification  admission/discharge.

 

   However pensions act states no fraud can be attached to recipient of pension,(punishment/sanction are the words)  likewise no penalty rendered....its all there read it...make a complete nonsense of the crap following on from page one on 'getting found out'

Voluntary supplying information is no more than a turkey voting for Christmas..most replies here are the work of the green eyed monster at work   ie... jealousy

   Just read the pensions act,its all there

All I can repeat is there, no punishment,no reclaiming money,nothing,,,can read and inwardly digest,pointless stating 'can do this' cannot do that'

 Just read the pensions act,specifically Old Age pensions,even more specifically 'penalties'......no punishments' or words to effect,  I'm standing by that,you can do what the hell you like  lol

[vinny41]

3 minutes ago, solo46 said:

All I can repeat is there, no punishment,no reclaiming money,nothing,,,can read and inwardly digest,pointless stating 'can do this' cannot do that'

 Just read the pensions act,specifically Old Age pensions,even more specifically 'penalties'......no punishments' or words to effect,  I'm standing by that,you can do what the hell you like  lol

repeat it all your want It doesn't matter you seem unable to provide a link to the relevant sub section of the pension act 

For anyone thinking of taking @solo46 advice I guess if caught and prosecuted your could try the form of defence I didn't know I was doing anything wrong I just listed to @solo46

[transam]

6 minutes ago, solo46 said:

All I can repeat is there, no punishment,no reclaiming money,nothing,,,can read and inwardly digest,pointless stating 'can do this' cannot do that'

 Just read the pensions act,specifically Old Age pensions,even more specifically 'penalties'......no punishments' or words to effect,  I'm standing by that,you can do what the hell you like  lol

Again....Are you claiming a UK state pension in a non reciprocal agreement country without telling UK pensions....?

Now this is a very simple question....Yes or No....

 

When I have your answer I will continue...

[solo46]

1 minute ago, vinny41 said:

repeat it all your want It doesn't matter you seem unable to provide a link to the relevant sub section of the pension act 

For anyone thinking of taking @solo46 advice I guess if caught and prosecuted your could try the form of defence I didn't know I was doing anything wrong I just listed to @solo46

Why link anything,its there  ,again(if you can read).....These forums are supposed to be used for information,not crap heaped on more crap.    Obv there is only one other poster here who can quote from DWP website,its not hard,its all available

       You should have asked specifically of any OA pensioner being prosecuted/warned/sanctioned/cautioned in FoI request,  can answer in one  NO

 

   Nobody caught,nobody prosecuted,  have a nice day