UK Pensions (2018)

[JASON THAI]

Hi I know that when you get your UK State pension it will be frozen with no annual increases, does anyone know what date the pension is frozen from is it the date you came to live in Thailand or the date you make the claim for your state pension

 

Thanks

[Pilotman]

It is only frozen as you put it, if you are no longer normally resident in the UK. Beware thinking that you are 'normally resident' in Thailand, you are not, at least not unless you do gain that status here, or become a Citizen. .  Any extension of stay here is merely a temporary permission to stay in Thailand for a period of 12 months, it is not a permanent residency.  That being so, if you tell the UK authorities that you are now not resident in the UK, but normally resident in Thailand, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.  Others will no doubt tell you that this is against the spirit and actuality of the law. As far as I know, this has not been tested in the UK Counts. My advice would be to maintain a UK address, maintain your place on the Electoral Roll, keep your UK bank, return to the UK every now and again, but no less than once every two extensions of stay (to maintain residency)  and come to Asia on an extended holiday.  

Edited April 13, 2019 by Pilotman

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

It is only frozen as you put it, if you are no longer normally resident in the UK. Beware thinking that you are 'normally resident' in Thailand, you are not, at least not unless you do gain that status here, or become a Citizen. .  Any extension of stay here is merely a temporary permission to stay in Thailand for a period of 12 months, it is not a permanent residency.  That being so, if you tell the UK authorities that you are now not resident in the UK, but normally resident in Thailand, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.  Others will no doubt tell you that this is against the spirit and actuality of the law. As far as I know, this has not been tested in the UK Counts. My advice would be to maintain a UK address, maintain your place on the Electoral Roll, keep your UK bank, return to the UK every now and again, but no less than once every two extensions of stay (to maintain residency)  and come to Asia on an extended holiday.  

This not correct...

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, transam said:

This not correct...

here we go. So what part of this is incorrect? 

Edited April 13, 2019 by Pilotman

[Pilotman]

4 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

here we go. So what part of this is incorrect? 

Form the Gov website:

 

You're automatically non-resident if either: you spent fewer than 16 days in the UK(or 46 days if you have not been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous taxyears) you work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than 91 days in the UK, of which no more than 30 were spent working.

 

[Pilotman]

3 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Form the Gov website:

 

You're automatically non-resident if either: you spent fewer than 16 days in the UK(or 46 days if you have not been classed as UK resident for the 3 previous taxyears) you work abroad full-time (averaging at least 35 hours a week) and spent fewer than 91 days in the UK, of which no more than 30 were spent working.

 

• You spend 183 days or more in the UK in the tax year under consideration;

• You have a home in the UK for a period of more than 90 days and you are present in the home on at least 30 separate days (note there are further conditions in relation to this test which you should also consider);

• You work full-time in the UK for 365 days or more with no significant break from UK work (there are also further conditions in relation to this test). Note that this test usually affects two or more tax years because the 365-day period will typically straddle two years);

• The fourth test is only relevant to people who die during the tax year.

[Pilotman]

5 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

• You spend 183 days or more in the UK in the tax year under consideration;

• You have a home in the UK for a period of more than 90 days and you are present in the home on at least 30 separate days (note there are further conditions in relation to this test which you should also consider);

• You work full-time in the UK for 365 days or more with no significant break from UK work (there are also further conditions in relation to this test). Note that this test usually affects two or more tax years because the 365-day period will typically straddle two years);

• The fourth test is only relevant to people who die during the tax year.

You are likely to be treated as UK tax resident under the SRT if you:

• spend 183 days or more in the UK during a tax year; or
• have a home in the UK, and do not have a home overseas; or
• work full-time in the UK over a period of 365 days (this does not need to coincide with the tax year).

[Pilotman]

right, I'm done. 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

You are likely to be treated as UK tax resident under the SRT if you:

• spend 183 days or more in the UK during a tax year; or
• have a home in the UK, and do not have a home overseas; or
• work full-time in the UK over a period of 365 days (this does not need to coincide with the tax year).

I thought the OP was asking about frozen pensions and living in LOS for more than the time limit allowed to maintain a non frozen pension...?  ????

[sammieuk1]

Open a PO account use a relations address if you don't have one and go back from time to time and collect it max £600 per day my money I earned it retrospective rules are meant to be broken and my view is you will never be a resident here so no rules broken????

[NightSky]

33 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

here we go. So what part of this is incorrect? 

All of it. ????

 

Everyones residency status will differ based on the criteria stated by the government agencies.

 

The UK criteria is now complex. I spent months determining my status last year in order to ensure tax compliance whilst living in two countries.

 

there is no hard and fast blanket statement rule. every one will need to do the residency tests themselves to determine residency status.

 

Also Thailand residency has nothing to do with determining uk residency status. You can be duel resident of more than one country or not but this does not effect Uk residency status in any way.

Edited April 13, 2019 by NightSky

[JASON THAI]

Thanks for the replies, I left the UK in Nov 2015 so I take it I will become a Non UK Resident from May 2016 (6 Months after I left the UK) so my pension would be £155.65 per week ( which was the rate from April 2016 

[NightSky]

12 minutes ago, JASON THAI said:

Thanks for the replies, I left the UK in Nov 2015 so I take it I will become a Non UK Resident from May 2016 (6 Months after I left the UK) so my pension would be £155.65 per week ( which was the rate from April 2016 

You’ll need to take the UK residency test on the gov.uk website to find out your true residency status and when that might have ended. 

 

My guess is that residency ends the date your passport is stamped into Thailand since this is the proof of when you left Uk but do the test to be sure.

Edited April 13, 2019 by NightSky

[cleopatra2]

14 minutes ago, JASON THAI said:

Thanks for the replies, I left the UK in Nov 2015 so I take it I will become a Non UK Resident from May 2016 (6 Months after I left the UK) so my pension would be £155.65 per week ( which was the rate from April 2016 

To answer your original question , from date the pension is claimed if already living oversees, or from date of moving oversees if in receipt of pension.

[fcgprg]

16 minutes ago, JASON THAI said:

Thanks for the replies, I left the UK in Nov 2015 so I take it I will become a Non UK Resident from May 2016 (6 Months after I left the UK) so my pension would be £155.65 per week ( which was the rate from April 2016 

Your State Pension will be the amount that is due to you from the date you claim it. If you have a Government gateway account you can check the current amount you will get when you claim your state pension.

[solo46]

Need not be Thailand,anywhere actually,but for some reason frozen,not to worry,nobody has ever been penalised,even when informant has informed,cannot force a frozen penalty on you, or take money back,do not do it,long time to regret

[transam]

4 minutes ago, solo46 said:

Need not be Thailand,anywhere actually,but for some reason frozen,not to worry,nobody has ever been penalised,even when informant has informed,cannot force a frozen penalty on you, or take money back,do not do it,long time to regret

That is incorrect....

[cleopatra2]

36 minutes ago, NightSky said:

All of it. ????

 

Everyones residency status will differ based on the criteria stated by the government agencies.

 

The UK criteria is now complex. I spent months determining my status last year in order to ensure tax compliance whilst living in two countries.

 

there is no hard and fast blanket statement rule. every one will need to do the residency tests themselves to determine residency status.

 

Also Thailand residency has nothing to do with determining uk residency status. You can be duel resident of more than one country or not but this does not effect Uk residency status in any way.

For the purpose of Pension Act 2014, oversees resident is defined as somebody not ordinarily resident in the UK

Ordinarily resident was consided in the UK domestics court (Shah), and should have its natural meaning.

 

“ordinarily residence refers to a man’s abode in a particular place or country which he has adopted voluntarily and for settled purposes as part of the regular order of his life for the time being, whether of short or long duration”

 

Confusion arises because in 2013 for tax purposes the term ordinary resident was abolished and residency tests implemented.

[Chivas]

Can that State Pension be paid into a Thai account  ??  Clearly you're red flagging yourself as regards residency if you did so I acknowledge

What is the basic state pension now for a Brit with full NI card. Before posting I've just found 3 different figures for the current year lol

[solo46]

21 minutes ago, transam said:

That is incorrect....

If not correct,correct me then !!!

 

Awaiting correction If you so please

Edited April 13, 2019 by solo46
awaiting correction

[Chivas]

1 hour ago, Pilotman said:

It is only frozen as you put it, if you are no longer normally resident in the UK. Beware thinking that you are 'normally resident' in Thailand, you are not, at least not unless you do gain that status here, or become a Citizen. .  Any extension of stay here is merely a temporary permission to stay in Thailand for a period of 12 months, it is not a permanent residency.  That being so, if you tell the UK authorities that you are now not resident in the UK, but normally resident in Thailand, you are doing yourself a massive disservice.  Others will no doubt tell you that this is against the spirit and actuality of the law. As far as I know, this has not been tested in the UK Counts. My advice would be to maintain a UK address, maintain your place on the Electoral Roll, keep your UK bank, return to the UK every now and again, but no less than once every two extensions of stay (to maintain residency)  and come to Asia on an extended holiday.  

Yep I'd go along with that Pilotman. Bottom line is our/your government know where you are (country) 24/7 these guys who worry about cookies etc etc are just in dreamland.

As an example and take this in. I returned from Thailand on Oman via Muscat arriving T4 last month. By the book as always.  Since I've had the current passport the E gates have only worked once.  As per normal over to manual check.

Smile as always. Most time its a scan and thank you Sir. Not this time, Where have you flown from Sir (very polite) to which I respond Thailand via Muscat on Oman.

She clearly looking at the screen. Now I'm British through and through but born in Germany (dad in forces) and I do have a slight German look I do accept especially on Passport photo......

 

Looking at me again she says "Wheres Nordsee Clinic" am looking at her completely blank until realisation dawns to which I reply with a big laugh thats the hospital I was born in on the Island of Sylt in West Germany

 

Passport back to me with big smile.  Now no way on earth did Nordsee Clinic every come up on any application to anything in my life !  Birthplace of course Sylt but not the clinic !!

Walking to carousel I'm thinking how the hell is that on file !!

 

You better believe what information is held on you lol !!

Edited April 13, 2019 by Chivas

[transam]

2 minutes ago, solo46 said:

If not correct,correct me then !!!

I know of three people that were found out living in LOS claiming their pension as living in the UK. None went to court...Why, because the UK gov had proof which would be daft to contested in a court of law..If they lost the case it's big money..

Two paid 1000 quid gov fine and had to pay back all the over payments. The third (my friend) did not have to pay a fine because he proved he had brain damage and his UK sister handled all his paperwork and she did not know of the Reciprocal Agreement thing regarding LOS, he still had to pay back I think 8 years over payment... 

[whiteman]

if you are from nz  and you are out of the country more than 6 months it is stopped and you need to reapply and jump though all the hoops and crap

[solo46]

12 minutes ago, transam said:

I know of three people that were found out living in LOS claiming their pension as living in the UK. None went to court...Why, because the UK gov had proof which would be daft to contested in a court of law..If they lost the case it's big money..

Two paid 1000 quid gov fine and had to pay back all the over payments. The third (my friend) did not have to pay a fine because he proved he had brain damage and his UK sister handled all his paperwork and she did not know of the Reciprocal Agreement thing regarding LOS, he still had to pay back I think 8 years over payment... 

Yes have witnessed these inconclusive meanderings of yours over the eons,...but but but...this goes against the official DWP website,...Is it a possibility? ,yes extreme possibility ?you are quite possibly quoting from an uninformed source....The booklet more than probably will state "official DWP rules" or something like, an unofficial copy of DWP website that quite possibly,and I only utter (quite) possibly you,yourself are referring to will not have that wording                                                                                                       Awaiting response

Edited April 13, 2019 by solo46
Awaiting response

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, whiteman said:

if you are from nz  and you are out of the country more than 6 months it is stopped and you need to reapply and jump though all the hoops and crap

That is because NZ and Australia require everyone leaving the country go through passport control. The UK & the US have no outwards passport control. I have one friend from the UK who finds it highly amusing that he still gets a heating allowance with his UK pension even though he has lived here more than 20 years.  Interestingly he has been back to the UK several times, so they're aware that he travels

[Chivas]

2 minutes ago, ThaiBunny said:

That is because NZ and Australia require everyone leaving the country go through passport control. The UK & the US have no outwards passport control. I have one friend from the UK who finds it highly amusing that he still gets a heating allowance with his UK pension even though he has lived here more than 20 years.  Interestingly he has been back to the UK several times, so they're aware that he travels

Lol dear oh dear The UK has no outwards passport control !!

The minute the passport is scanned at check in and the minute the passenger manifest is finalised you're updated on the database

[transam]

5 minutes ago, solo46 said:

Yes have witnessed these inconclusive meanderings of yours over the eons,...but but but...this goes against the official DWP website,...Is it a possibility? ,yes extreme possibility ?you are quite possibly quoting from an uninformed source....The booklet more than probably will state "official DWP rules" or something like, an unofficial copy of DWP website that quite possibly,and I only utter (quite) possibly you,yourself are referring to will not have that wording                                                                                                       Awaiting response

I don't like being called a liar.....If folk want to take a risk then that is fine, but folk posting here "No ploblem" then that is miss information...

 

Did you know if you LIVE in the UK and you go into hospital you "must" tell pensions....?....Well they might knock off a couple of pension quid for hozzy rations...????

[ThaiBunny]

1 minute ago, transam said:

Did you know if you LIVE in the UK and you go into hospital you "must" tell pensions....?

If you're knocked down by a car and are unconscious or have concussion and memory loss?  How soon after you're admitted do you have to report? Is there a form like the 90-day report in Thailand?

[ThaiBunny]

8 minutes ago, Chivas said:

Lol dear oh dear The UK has no outwards passport control !!

The minute the passport is scanned at check in and the minute the passenger manifest is finalised you're updated on the database

LOL

[solo46]

Just now, transam said:

I don't like being called a liar.....If folk want to take a risk then that is fine, but folk posting here "No ploblem" then that is miss information...

 

Did you know if you LIVE in the UK and you go into hospital you "must" tell pensions....?....Well they might knock off a couple of pension quid for hozzy rations...????

Now herewithin(is that a word?) you are wrong.  Heavens forbid,calling you a liar?  no never...I did no such thing.   All I suggested you are quite possibility quoting an aid to memoir (is that a word?)  or unofficial source of your ,..can I say,rabbiting on

 

 Again all I ask,no ploblem I hope is where you indeed do garner the miss information

              Fanking You