Britain can end Brexit unilaterally, EU court advisor says

[bomber]

7 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

 

bloody laborious and costly though,

lugging a double decker from blighty to Singapore and onto Malaysia and further . . .

just send Boris and Fagarse instead these are the who created the mess but who wants to listen to desperate brits flying all over the world mouthing on about how great this nation is and how the world needs it,to be honest nobody cares and who can blame them

[sandyf]

13 hours ago, evadgib said:

Whatever occurred did so in Brazil. HMG will no doubt publish fine detail on 29 March. Whether Russia are anywhere near it remains to be seen but I doubt it.

It is over 2 years since Fox went to Brazil and wouldn't be in a position to secure any deal. Apart from anything else BRICS is an alliance, not a trading bloc.

All that has ever been said is the BRICS nations would be targeted.

 

Because of the comparative ease of trading with the EU, British business have perhaps been slower than some other countries in seeing the huge potential of Brazil, Russia, India, China and, notably, South Africa. But Britain outside the EU will be free to pursue its own trade deals; and the BRIC Nations will be a key target.

https://southafricanchamber.co.uk/brics-and-the-brexit-effect-why-the-uk-will-be-giving-south-african-trade-priority-post-brexit/

[bomber]

24 minutes ago, sandyf said:

It is over 2 years since Fox went to Brazil and wouldn't be in a position to secure any deal. Apart from anything else BRICS is an alliance, not a trading bloc.

All that has ever been said is the BRICS nations would be targeted.

 

Because of the comparative ease of trading with the EU, British business have perhaps been slower than some other countries in seeing the huge potential of Brazil, Russia, India, China and, notably, South Africa. But Britain outside the EU will be free to pursue its own trade deals; and the BRIC Nations will be a key target.

https://southafricanchamber.co.uk/brics-and-the-brexit-effect-why-the-uk-will-be-giving-south-african-trade-priority-post-brexit/

a proper rogues gallery of nations waiting to rip the UK off if ever i saw it,also what can we possibly sell them? not much and they wont pay if they can help it,the ex corrupt president of SA owes my partners deceased farther a small fortune,say's it all,the UK wont find anything better than the EU to trade with the sooner folks realise this the better

[sandyf]

On 1/3/2019 at 11:05 PM, bomber said:

a proper rogues gallery of nations waiting to rip the UK off if ever i saw it,also what can we possibly sell them? not much and they wont pay if they can help it,the ex corrupt president of SA owes my partners deceased farther a small fortune,say's it all,the UK wont find anything better than the EU to trade with the sooner folks realise this the better

The EU hasn't done a trade deal with China because the Chinese are not prepared to abide by EU regulations.

What is the UK planning to do, change the regulations to suit the Chinese, the same regulations that the UK citizens expect to keep them safe.

[aright]

1 hour ago, sandyf said:

The EU hasn't done a trade deal with China because the Chinese are not prepared to abide by EU regulations.

What is the UK planning to do, change the regulations to suit the Chinese, the same regulations that the UK citizens expect to keep them safe.

This is completely at odds with what the European Commission says. The trade deal is conducted under WTO rules.

 

"The European Union and China are two of the biggest traders in the world. China is now the EU's second-biggest trading partner behind the United States and the EU is China's biggest trading partner.

• China is the EU's biggest source of imports and its second-biggest export market. China and Europe trade on average over €1 billion a day
• EU’s main imports from China are industrial and consumer goods, machinery and equipment, and footwear and clothing
• EU main exports to China are: machinery and equipment, motor vehicles, aircraft, and chemicals
• EU-China trade in services amounts to more than 10% of total trade in goods, and the EU's exports of services make up 19% of EU's total exports of goods"

[damascase]

27 minutes ago, aright said:

This is completely at odds with what the European Commission says. The trade deal is conducted under WTO rules.

 

"The European Union and China are two of the biggest traders in the world. China is now the EU's second-biggest trading partner behind the United States and the EU is China's biggest trading partner.

• China is the EU's biggest source of imports and its second-biggest export market. China and Europe trade on average over €1 billion a day
• EU’s main imports from China are industrial and consumer goods, machinery and equipment, and footwear and clothing
• EU main exports to China are: machinery and equipment, motor vehicles, aircraft, and chemicals
• EU-China trade in services amounts to more than 10% of total trade in goods, and the EU's exports of services make up 19% of EU's total exports of goods"

i can’t see the EU aiming to set their standards in an FTA being against WTO-rules.

[aright]

13 minutes ago, damascase said:

i can’t see the EU aiming to set their standards in an FTA being against WTO-rules.

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Can you expand? 

[damascase]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

I am not sure what you are trying to say. Can you expand? 

Re-reading, yes, i wasn’t clear. Well, @Sandyf says ‘The EU hasn't done a trade deal with China because the Chinese are not prepared to abide by EU regulations.’ You come backing stating ‘ This is completely at odds with what the European Commission says. The trade deal is conducted under WTO rules.

What I meant to say is that, IMHO, WTO-rules do not preclude any of the negotiating parties from setting - and trying to have them accepted - their own standards. It is all a matter of negotiations.

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, aright said:

This is completely at odds with what the European Commission says. The trade deal is conducted under WTO rules.

The EU trades with China but there is no trade deal, China is listed under "Being negotiated".

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/negotiations-and-agreements/#_being-negotiated

 

Negotiations started in 2013 but got nowhere, in 2016 a new strategy was published, key elements:

 

This Communication proposes that the EU should:

 Seize new openings to strengthen its relations with China.

 Engage China in its reform process in practical ways which result in mutual benefits for our relations in economic, trade and investment, social, environmental and other areas.

 Promote reciprocity, a level playing field and fair competition across all areas of cooperation.

 Push for the timely completion of negotiations on a Comprehensive Agreement on Investment and an ambitious approach to opening up new market opportunities.

 Drive forward infrastructure, trading, digital and people-to-people connectivity between Europe and China based on an open rules-based platform with benefits for all the countries along the proposed routes.

 Promote global public goods, sustainable development and international security in line with our respective UN and G20 responsibilities.

http://eeas.europa.eu/archives/docs/china/docs/joint_communication_to_the_european_parliament_and_the_council_-_elements_for_a_new_eu_strategy_on_china.pdf

 

There is little doubt that the leavers believe that the UK can show the EU how a trade deal should be negotiated.

[bomber]

nowt to say china wont do a deal with the EU,much better trade with 26 nations than one,where would that leave the mighty UK

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, bomber said:

nowt to say china wont do a deal with the EU,much better trade with 26 nations than one,where would that leave the mighty UK

China already has a trading agreement with the UK and the other countries of the EU. but it is not clear if the UK will still have the same rights regarding trade with China after it leaves the EU.  

 

I am sure things will be OK, though, it's not as if there is any bad blood between the UK and China.

[aright]

34 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The EU trades with China but there is no trade deal, China is listed under "Being negotiated".

http://ec.europa.eu/trade/policy/countries-and-regions/negotiations-and-agreements/#_being-negotiated

 

Negotiations started in 2013 but got nowhere, in 2016 a new strategy was published, key elements:

 

This Communication proposes that the EU should:

 Seize new openings to strengthen its relations with China.

 Engage China in its reform process in practical ways which result in mutual benefits for our relations in economic, trade and investment, social, environmental and other areas.

 Promote reciprocity, a level playing field and fair competition across all areas of cooperation.

 Push for the timely completion of negotiations on a Comprehensive Agreement on Investment and an ambitious approach to opening up new market opportunities.

 Drive forward infrastructure, trading, digital and people-to-people connectivity between Europe and China based on an open rules-based platform with benefits for all the countries along the proposed routes.

 Promote global public goods, sustainable development and international security in line with our respective UN and G20 responsibilities.

http://eeas.europa.eu/archives/docs/china/docs/joint_communication_to_the_european_parliament_and_the_council_-_elements_for_a_new_eu_strategy_on_china.pdf

 

There is little doubt that the leavers believe that the UK can show the EU how a trade deal should be negotiated.

The EU trades with China under a set of global trade rules which govern international trade, established by the World Trade Organisation …….. the rules define the deal for over 160 countries.. It would be true to say, however, the EU does not trade with China under a free trade deal/arrangement which is different.

 

Since as you say the EU started free trade negotiations with China in 2013, it would appear, after 6 years, the EU  can't show China how a free trade deal can be negotiated either.

 

[sandyf]

15 hours ago, aright said:

The EU trades with China under a set of global trade rules which govern international trade, established by the World Trade Organisation …….. the rules define the deal for over 160 countries.. It would be true to say, however, the EU does not trade with China under a free trade deal/arrangement which is different.

 

Since as you say the EU started free trade negotiations with China in 2013, it would appear, after 6 years, the EU  can't show China how a free trade deal can be negotiated either.

 

The Chinese government are quite happy with the WTO arrangement with importers and exporters shouldering the responsibility. The government can continue to avoid progress on its responsibilities. They also have a particular dislike of the EU regulations on product marking, counterfeit goods, product dumping, to name a few. One can only assume that the leavers would be quite happy to have the UK market flooded with cheap and nasty rubbish.

The UK is already in trouble with the EU over fraud regarding Chinese goods.

 

The European Commission today warned the U.K. for the second time to recover €2.7 billion in lost EU revenue stemming from the country's failure to stop a massive fraud network that allowed cheap Chinese goods to flood into Europe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-warns-uk-again-to-recoup-e2-7-billion-china-fraud-bill/

 

 

[evadgib]

 

[melvinmelvin]

45 minutes ago, sandyf said:

The Chinese government are quite happy with the WTO arrangement with importers and exporters shouldering the responsibility. The government can continue to avoid progress on its responsibilities. They also have a particular dislike of the EU regulations on product marking, counterfeit goods, product dumping, to name a few. One can only assume that the leavers would be quite happy to have the UK market flooded with cheap and nasty rubbish.

The UK is already in trouble with the EU over fraud regarding Chinese goods.

 

The European Commission today warned the U.K. for the second time to recover €2.7 billion in lost EU revenue stemming from the country's failure to stop a massive fraud network that allowed cheap Chinese goods to flood into Europe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-warns-uk-again-to-recoup-e2-7-billion-china-fraud-bill/

 

 

comes as no surprise and it will be several more of the same kind coming

come brexit there will be a queue of such

 

 

[damascase]

47 minutes ago, melvinmelvin said:

comes as no surprise and it will be several more of the same kind coming

come brexit there will be a queue of such

 

 

Keep in mind that 25% of EU import duties collected do not go into the EU’s budget, but are kept by the collecting Member State. So by not doing a proper job, HMRC deprived the UK treasury from nearly €700.000.000.

[aright]

2 hours ago, sandyf said:

The Chinese government are quite happy with the WTO arrangement with importers and exporters shouldering the responsibility. The government can continue to avoid progress on its responsibilities. They also have a particular dislike of the EU regulations on product marking, counterfeit goods, product dumping, to name a few. One can only assume that the leavers would be quite happy to have the UK market flooded with cheap and nasty rubbish.

The UK is already in trouble with the EU over fraud regarding Chinese goods.

 

The European Commission today warned the U.K. for the second time to recover €2.7 billion in lost EU revenue stemming from the country's failure to stop a massive fraud network that allowed cheap Chinese goods to flood into Europe.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-warns-uk-again-to-recoup-e2-7-billion-china-fraud-bill/

 

 

Cheap and nasty rubbish? China manufactures 1.1 billion mobile phones; that represents 7 out of 10 phones worldwide, 91% of all personal computers, 80% of all air conditioners, 74% of global solar cell production, half of the worlds ships, 12.5 billion pairs of shoes...….I could go on. My Company sources from China to our specifications and 99% of transactions are without problems. For cheap and nasty rubbish they have a lot of customers.

 

The UK is already in trouble with the EU over fraud regarding Chinese goods.

A ruling on this has still to be determined and it is off the original trading topic and imo if found guilty the UK should pay the price but if you want to make an issue of rule violation.....

 

"Euro zone policymakers deliberately chose to “violate” the bloc’s rules in rescuing Greece and Ireland, closing ranks to protect the single currency area’s future, French Economy Minister Christine Lagarde was quoted as saying.

The EU’s governing Lisbon Treaty places constraints on bailouts. European leaders agreed at a summit on Thursday to amend it by creating a permanent financial safety net from 2013.

The Greek and Irish bailouts and the creation of a temporary European rescue fund had been “major transgressions” of the treaty.

“We violated all the rules because we wanted to close ranks and really rescue the euro zone,” Lagarde was quoted as saying.

“The Treaty of Lisbon was very straight-forward. No bailout.”

 

As I recall this violation attracted no penalty.

 

 

 

[owl sees all]

10 minutes ago, aright said:

Cheap and nasty rubbish? China manufactures 1.1 billion mobile phones; that represents 7 out of 10 phones worldwide, 91% of all personal computers, 80% of all air conditioners, 74% of global solar cell production, half of the worlds ships, 12.5 billion pairs of shoes.

Bang on the money.

 

The whole debacle of that Waiwai lady being arrested in Canada, was to send a message, to bully, to protect US interests. The US brought into line; Canada, Australia, NZ, and the UK. The countries that bend the knee when big boss orders.

 

Gradually, there is developing an 'us and them' theme'.* It's too late for US to 'reign' in China. It has made too many friends and done too many deals across the world, and is now too powerful. China's does trade, where, if it was the US, there would be military bases.

 

While China remains pally with Russia there is nothing much the US can do except threaten and bluster**. Europe is moving ever more towards trade with the 'other side'.

 

* IMO it is extreme folly for the UK to demonize and alienate Russia.

** WW3? or New World Currency.

 

 

[Grouse]

 

This is a rather good explanation. It's animated so easier to comprehend for some I assume.

[melvinmelvin]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

This is a rather good explanation. It's animated so easier to comprehend for some I assume.

 

cartoon freaks should dig this one

 

[Grouse]

 

upbeat speech by young optimist! Uplifting.

[evadgib]

 

[Grouse]

 

Killing off Brexit....????

[baboon]

42 minutes ago, Grouse said:

 

Killing off Brexit....????

Grouse, I would like the whole damn thing to be called off as would you. However we need to brace for a hard Brexit, which will happen by default.

The only question now is which (CON) PM will go down in infamy as the one who destroyed the United Kingdom into the bargain...

[7by7]

2 hours ago, baboon said:

Grouse, I would like the whole damn thing to be called off as would you. However we need to brace for a hard Brexit, which will happen by default.

The only question now is which (CON) PM will go down in infamy as the one who destroyed the United Kingdom into the bargain...

It will, of course, be May as she is the PM and still will be when the axe falls.

 

She is PM by default, though, because neither of the two main Brexiteer candidates, Johnson and Gove, had the balls to take the job on so withdrew from the leadership contest..

 

They knew what a disaster Brexit was going to be, and so avoided being responsible for it like the plague.

 

Say what you like about her, but May was the only one with the courage to take the job on.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

upbeat speech by young optimist! Uplifting.

OH Gawd not that fool. This thing has around for ages and thankfully even remainers must have been too embarrassed to link it so far. Desperate strokes I suppose. Have another Monkey Shoulder do.

[nauseus]

3 hours ago, baboon said:

Grouse, I would like the whole damn thing to be called off as would you. However we need to brace for a hard Brexit, which will happen by default.

The only question now is which (CON) PM will go down in infamy as the one who destroyed the United Kingdom into the bargain...

That's easy and already answered, it was Ted Heath. 

[Grouse]

12 minutes ago, nauseus said:

OH Gawd not that fool. This thing has around for ages and thankfully even remainers must have been too embarrassed to link it so far. Desperate strokes I suppose. Have another Monkey Shoulder do.

Good idea

 

I hadn't seen it. Good effort, I thought!

 

 

 

 

[nauseus]

20 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Good idea

 

I hadn't seen it. Good effort, I thought!

 

 

 

 

This was more my era (UK hit). And pass the Shoulder you cheapskate. ????

 

 

Are we partying or what? ????

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, nauseus said:

This was more my era (UK hit). And pass the Shoulder you cheapskate. ????

 

 

Are we partying or what? ????

Get down!