The best path to becoming a long-term visa holder as a non-retiree, working-age tech entrepreneur.

[FarangDoingHisThing69]

Hello, I've recently returned from a journey into Thailand. I must say that this beautiful country left quite the impression on me. All across this country I ran into people who gave me lots of confidence and trust in the people of this land.

 

I am young. Only 25. I currently run my own tech business, focused in an extremely competitive industry on the cutting edge of technology. I work in a very high demand field in a disruptive industry, and dedicate every day to what I do. I work from home and have made myself quite comfortable. You could consider me a CEO.

 

I've been looking into options for people who fit a mould like mine. Successful independently, with a skillset in a niche tech industry positioned for disruptive growth, and a desire to cooperate as many ways as I can alongside the digital development and other growth-oriented departments of the Thai government.

 

To this end, I discovered the SMART visa. The SMART visa program reads like it was designed for people just like me! The SMART visa has the S ("Startup") class, which would be what I'd imagine I would fit under considering my field and how we have not established our operative entity yet.

 

My plan is this:

1. File SMART visa S-class ("startup") application

2. Get endorsement from DEPA

3. Gather all required materials in digital and physical form, originals included

4. Go to Thailand, speak directly to immigration division in government complex, explain them what I'd like to do and see if there's any way to get worked through as quickly as possible. File extension of my 30 day visa and see if there's anything I need to do to speed up the process.

5. Wait to hear from immigration.

6. If approved for the SMART visa, I would immediately move to establish my entity in Thailand following all applicable laws and advice from the DEPA or other agencies, and work to satisfy the SMART visa requirements long before the 1 year period is up.

 

I would like to begin living long term as soon as possible in Thailand, hence why I am going back already. I would like to show them I am serious about becoming a proud contributor to these innovative programs and help entice others from my industry to look more into this great nation.

 

 

I suppose my question is, what is the best option to work into a long term non-retirement and non-work visa, for someone who is independently successful and can prove they have the funds and ability to create their own entity and operation. I believe the purpose of the SMART visa is geared for this, but I'd be curious if there's any other classes I'm seeming to miss in my searches. I could easily achieve the minimum term deposit requirements and be able to establish our entity in Thailand using consultation from my legal team.

 

Would a SMART S-class "Startup" visa be a good option for me? Or is there another path designed for single entrepreneurs with a track record of success and ability to innovate? I am willing and able to work in any way possible. I've already contacted the Digital Economy Promotion Agency, and I see there is a medical certificate and a police report requirement. I also have applied for both Thailand-eligible medical coverage and have a gold US-based plan. Is this a strict requirement in these cases, for all of this documentation? I would like to know if I'm on the right path here, or if there's some simpler option that I could work with meanwhile?

 

Example, the required documentation for SMART applicants:

https://smart-visa.boi.go.th/document/SMART_S.pdf

 

I'm planning to work fully on the SMART process and try to cooperate with the DEPA as best as I can to bring my industry to the shores of Thailand. Could anyone give advice for a young entrepreneur who has discovered a deep love for the Thai people? I will be visiting Thailand again at the end of the month, in order to setup my new lodging and go directly to the offices involved with all of my documentation required. I figure I can always get better service directly at the agencies. My closest consulate is a 6 hour flight away anyways. Must I pick up and file an application at a consulate here in the US or would I be okay to go directly to immigration in Thailand with proper documentation (a US-based medical certification, for example, I hear that a Thai-based medical examination certificate can be seen as less legitimate).

 

Advice, thoughts? I'd love to have a long term visa and be able to work on integration without having the time limit breathing down my neck. I suppose I can extend to a 60 day visa on my stay but that's ultimately not what I'm looking for. I'd like to live in and establish my entity here in Thailand, so hoping there's someone with a similar experience who can share a good path forward and if I've got the right idea.

 

Thanks in advance. Happy to join this forum and chat with you blokes. I truly do love this country and want to see it become a great powerhouse in nascent tech industries.

 

-FDHT69

Edited December 16, 2018 by FarangDoingHisThing69

[DrJack54]

Spoken from the heart but not much else. Don't get my wrong, you seem to have great drive and that's to be commended. Trust me I see lot of backpackers esp in Vietnam bumbling around teaching and having party time. Your not. Have you considered the 20 year elite visa. Not many 25 yrs olds could afford it but think would give you lot of freedom. Don't want to sound like a "dream shatterer" but Thai couldn't give a flying .... about your honest intentions. Your enthusiasm might work in west. Not in los

[overherebc]

11 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Spoken from the heart but not much else. Don't get my wrong, you seem to have great drive and that's to be commended. Trust me I see lot of backpackers esp in Vietnam bumbling around teaching and having party time. Your not. Have you considered the 20 year elite visa. Not many 25 yrs olds could afford it but think would give you lot of freedom. Don't want to sound like a "dream shatterer" but Thai couldn't give a flying .... about your honest intentions. Your enthusiasm might work in west. Not in los

Elite visa doesn't allow you to work to my knowledge.

[JLCrab]

40 minutes ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

I suppose my question is, what is the best option to work into a long term non-retirement and non-work visa, for someone who is independently successful and can prove they have the funds and ability to create their own entity and operation

Marriage.

[FarangDoingHisThing69]

Just now, JLCrab said:

Marriage.

 

This was an option I was considering. The Thai government wouldn't think I'm trying to game the system, I hope? I just want to make sure everything is on the up and up. I'm not trying to find loopholes as a guest in a nation I love. If it's common for people in my position to do that, then I'd feel better about it.

[lordblackader]

Getting advice on a Smart Visa (S) category is difficult as so few people - if any, have ever gotten it. 

Be aware that you simply can't come and set up a business, you have to participating in an endorsed incubator or accelerator to even qualify and even then, it has to be in a targeted industry.

 

Your better bet might be Iglu or a similar BOI company where you're employed by that company and get your Nom Imm B (BOI) and work permit through them in return for paying a percentage of the pay you run through them.

 

It's not a perfect solution - after all, it costs but at your age it makes you entirely legal and after 3+ years you can potentially apply for permanent residency. PR has its own requirements such as being able to speak Thai to a certain extent but the minimum requirement is three years with a work permit. 

 

If you've got money to spend the alternative is to set up your own BOI company - 10m baht in registered capital but it can be fully owned by yourself and you can employ yourself without a requirement to hire Thais. 

[overherebc]

6 minutes ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

 

This was an option I was considering. The Thai government wouldn't think I'm trying to game the system, I hope? I just want to make sure everything is on the up and up. I'm not trying to find loopholes as a guest in a nation I love. If it's common for people in my position to do that, then I'd feel better about it.

If you have a Bachelors Degree and ten year documented experience in your field, have enough cash to start a new company in that field or find a Thai company that will pay you 200,000 baht a month then you might, just might not go broke in the first year.

[DrJack54]

4 minutes ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

 

This was an option I was considering. The Thai government wouldn't think I'm trying to game the system, I hope? I just want to make sure everything is on the up and up. I'm not trying to find loopholes as a guest in a nation I love. If it's common for people in my position to do that, then I'd feel better about it.

Seriously your starting to sound very naive. You mention "country I love" ....  reading your op seems perhaps your first visit. Doesn't matter, all the talk about your the CEO..etc. I like enthusiasm but as the USA series title "Curb your enthusiasm". As I posted earlier, your " honesty or rather sales pitch" will fall on Thai deaf ears. Which again shows your bit ahead of yourself. As JLcrab stated. MARRY.

Or as I suggested buy an elite visa. 

[JLCrab]

Marriage maybe -- but I would guess that under the Start-up option of the SMART Visa, it would be a matter of whether you have a 'cutting edge' technology that is exactly what a relevant authorized Thai agency is already looking for, or, that you have to convince an authorized Thai agency that you have a 'cutting edge' technology that is exactly what they should be looking for.

[FarangDoingHisThing69]

5 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

Marriage maybe -- but I would guess that under the Start-up option of the SMART Visa, it would be a matter of whether you have a 'cutting edge' technology that is exactly what a relevant authorized Thai agency is already looking for, or, that you have to convince an authorized Thai agency that you have a 'cutting edge' technology that is exactly what they should be looking for.

 

This is why I am speaking with the DEPA specifically, as the technology has military applications. I believe I offer a compelling case and argument in many ways. Just hoping to get some advice from anyone in a similar position, but I assume it's hard to find.

 

I'll look into the marriage visa more, that's always a suggestion from people I run into there ("Marry me") ????

 

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Seriously your starting to sound very naive. You mention "country I love" ....  reading your op seems perhaps your first visit. Doesn't matter, all the talk about your the CEO..etc. I like enthusiasm but as the USA series title "Curb your enthusiasm". As I posted earlier, your " honesty or rather sales pitch" will fall on Thai deaf ears. Which again shows your bit ahead of yourself. As JLcrab stated. MARRY.

Or as I suggested buy an elite visa. 

 

 

An elite visa does not allow work, and I telecommunicate and work 24/7, so I'd rather not run afoul of that due to a technicality. I suppose I could ask about the details regarding my specific case but I've heard stories of the elite visa not being such a golden pass as many say it is.

[DrJack54]

6 minutes ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

 

This is why I am speaking with the DEPA specifically, as the technology has military applications. I believe I offer a compelling case and argument in many ways. Just hoping to get some advice from anyone in a similar position, but I assume it's hard to find.

 

I'll look into the marriage visa more, that's always a suggestion from people I run into there ("Marry me") ????

 

 

 

An elite visa does not allow work, and I telecommunicate and work 24/7, so I'd rather not run afoul of that due to a technicality. I suppose I could ask about the details regarding my specific case but I've heard stories of the elite visa not being such a golden pass as many say it is.

True does not allow working in Thailand. If your "cutting edge" hasn't been taken up by your home county, why is it a winner in Thailand. I won't congest this thread further. Good luck. My suggestion re elite visa was more a way to establish yourself over, say, next 5/10 years. But hey your a CEO with cutting edge tech. However I do wish you well. Seriously.

[JLCrab]

All I would add is that these Thai government agency persons are very credential oriented. Either you would have to have a PhD or some such in a relevant discipline or work for/own a credible established company with identifiable clients and revenue stream or your talks might not come to any quick resolution.

[stud858]

Just get metv visa. Stay 8 months. 

My bet is that's what you'll end up doing over and over again like many.

But do let us know eventually about your trials and tribulations. 

[MekkOne]

SMART visa is not made for digital nomads or digital entrepreneurs, is made in a way that most of the people that have the credentials for get it won't bother the harassment as they will be paid nothing. If you like here, find a nice girl, marry her and do your things on a marriage visa, nobody will touch you as long as you support the family and you're pay taxes.

[overherebc]

And always remember never invest any more than you can just walk away from.

[FarangDoingHisThing69]

Thank you all for the input. I've done more research and reached out to Siam Legal in order to get a one year non-immigrant visa, which would be the first step for me on my journey to eventual residency once there's enough "time under the belt" so-to-speak. A SMART visa would be extraordinary, but I won't give up hope and I'll await to hear from DEPA anyways!

 

Marriage is also of course an option. ☺️ I'll keep this thread up to date on my "trials and tribulations" as they come.. I plan to be here for a long time and write about this country more.

Edited December 16, 2018 by FarangDoingHisThing69
fixed

[JackThompson]

1 hour ago, lordblackader said:

If you've got money to spend the alternative is to set up your own BOI company - 10m baht in registered capital but it can be fully owned by yourself and you can employ yourself without a requirement to hire Thais. 

If you are a US Citizen, you could also setup an Amity Treaty company and own it 100%.

 

The issue with the Smart Visa, is the trouble / time / hurdles in getting something processed which is rare.  By contrast, there are lawyers/accountants who have done Amity-Treaty or BOI companies, so there would be less fumbling around.  Neither option is cheap, though.

 

1 hour ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

I'll look into the marriage visa more, that's always a suggestion from people I run into there ("Marry me") ????

I am married to a Thai and have no regrets - but be careful with your selection, and do not set up bad "incentives" money-wise, which could torpedo the relationship (pressure from her family to "cash out," etc). 

 

One advantage to marriage is you can start a company with only 1M Baht capital - though your wife would own half.  On a visa/extension based on marriage, you can get a work-permit - (not available on Elite).  Either way, you'd have the "permission to stay" part taken care of, which is a either a PITA or crazy expensive here, until you turn 50.

 

There is a long-standing rule for investing in Thailand - do not invest any more than you can afford to lose entirely.  The business-climate is workable, in some situations - and the country / people are great - but it is heavily geared towards favoring the locals - as any country should be, but ours in the West aren't, so you may not be used to this aspect.

 

Another option which I would recommend exploring (married or not), is setting up your business in the British Virgin Islands or a similar offshore location.  This would allow you much greater tax-benefits and full-control of the company-purse and operations.  If/when you need Thai workers (2 to 4 if married to a Thai, or 4 if not), you could open a branch here for this, and get a work-permit based on that.  Your business's primary income-flow would not be taxable in your home-country or Thailand.  What you pay-yourself as salary while living here would be subject to personal income-tax, but I am not knowledgeable on what the tax-aspect of a Thai branch-office revenue would be.

[overherebc]

1 hour ago, overherebc said:

If you have a Bachelors Degree and ten year documented experience in your field, have enough cash to start a new company in that field or find a Thai company that will pay you 200,000 baht a month then you might, just might not go broke in the first year.

Don't know why you find it funny.

[DrJack54]

I will put a sharper edge to this nonsense. You will not obtain a SMART visa IMHO. You are typing about your CEO rubbish of rubbish company. Fact is you are 25 (I'm jealous) but calm down. You are not going to achieve, in short-term your aims. However stick with the enthusiasm. Geezus..

Read your own post. Its full of crazy claims and not serious substance. I don't wish to deflate you, but seriously as an old man who previously ran a company, I would throw out this application on first read. However your belief is Thai will be impressed. Holly molly are you dreaming?.  Sorry forgot your a CEO.

Edited December 16, 2018 by DrJack54
Error

[onera1961]

4 hours ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

Would a SMART S-class "Startup" visa be a good option for me?

I did check smart visa (s) category a while back. I think your start up must participate in an approved incubator program. I think you should first talk to incubator programs (like dTac Accelerate). There are dozens in Thailand who are focussed on various technologies of Thailand 4.0.

 

There is a vetting process otherwise every digital nomad will become Smart Visa (S) applicant. 

This is visa for scientists, engineers, executive of tech companies, and  investors willing to put up at least 20 million. It is not designed for drop-shippers, crypto traders, affiliate marketers, bloggers, or Amazon sellers. 

 

Or you can be an employee of a Thailand 4.0 industry and get a Smart visa (T)

If you're on to revolutionary technologies go to Silicon Valley and and find angel investors who can invest into your technology or you can find angel investors in Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, or India. 

Edited December 16, 2018 by onera1961

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, FarangDoingHisThing69 said:

Thank you all for the input. I've done more research and reached out to Siam Legal in order to get a one year non-immigrant visa, which would be the first step for me on my journey to eventual residency once there's enough "time under the belt" so-to-speak. A SMART visa would be extraordinary, but I won't give up hope and I'll await to hear from DEPA anyways!

 

Marriage is also of course an option. ☺️ I'll keep this thread up to date on my "trials and tribulations" as they come.. I plan to be here for a long time and write about this country more.

A non o visa allows you a 90 day permission of stay in Thailand. What is you non o visa based on. Clearly not retirement (over 50 etc) not on marriage? Don't bother with keep thread "up date". For a CEO you  demonstrate zero confidence. 

[onera1961]

9 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

Don't bother with keep thread "up date". For a CEO you  demonstrate zero confidence. 

If his start up is accepted in a approved incubator (or Government Program) in one of the S curve industries, he can get a Smart visa (S). He does not have to be CEO.

Edited December 16, 2018 by onera1961

[jackdd]

Just spend some longer time in Thailand using tourist visas, and if you still want to spend more time in Thailand after you have stayed here for 1 or 2 years reconsider your options.

[DrJack54]

12 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If his start up is accepted in a approved incubator (or Government Program) in one of the S curve industries, he can get a Smart visa (S). He does not have to be CEO.

And when was last one granted to a 25 yrs old magician. Show facts.

[DrJack54]

16 minutes ago, onera1961 said:

If his start up is accepted in a approved incubator (or Government Program) in one of the S curve industries, he can get a Smart visa (S). He does not have to be CEO.

The CEO reference was to show/highlight over inflated ego. Read post over and over. Demonstrates exaggerated idea perception of Thailand and crapping on about state edge technology. Need  to get a grip as you do.

Jackdd, just gave best advice on this foolish thread. Come live los on METV or other options and take it from there. Talk about "walk before you can crawl".... This thread takes the cake. 

[gk10002000]

7 hours ago, overherebc said:

Elite visa doesn't allow you to work to my knowledge.

Few visa allow working as this OP seems to be hinting at.  His original post is so full of fluff it is barely believable.  Having said that, the rules and laws and policies about people working on line, digital nomads, and other such things are a bit ambiguous, open to interpretation, unstated, etc. and few enforcements for or against the practice of making money on line doing something while in Thailand have made the news.

[jerojero]

If you have a Bachelors Degree and ten year documented experience in your field, have enough cash to start a new company in that field or find a Thai company that will pay you 200,000 baht a month then you might, just might not go broke in the first year.

He's 25. Ten years experience in his field? Duh.

[FarangDoingHisThing69]

5 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

The CEO reference was to show/highlight over inflated ego. Read post over and over. Demonstrates exaggerated idea perception of Thailand and crapping on about state edge technology. Need  to get a grip as you do.

Jackdd, just gave best advice on this foolish thread. Come live los on METV or other options and take it from there. Talk about "walk before you can crawl".... This thread takes the cake. 

 

I have over 50 employees. I'd say keep your posts constructive. ????

6 hours ago, onera1961 said:

I did check smart visa (s) category a while back. I think your start up must participate in an approved incubator program. I think you should first talk to incubator programs (like dTac Accelerate). There are dozens in Thailand who are focussed on various technologies of Thailand 4.0.

 

There is a vetting process otherwise every digital nomad will become Smart Visa (S) applicant. 

This is visa for scientists, engineers, executive of tech companies, and  investors willing to put up at least 20 million. It is not designed for drop-shippers, crypto traders, affiliate marketers, bloggers, or Amazon sellers. 

 

Or you can be an employee of a Thailand 4.0 industry and get a Smart visa (T)

If you're on to revolutionary technologies go to Silicon Valley and and find angel investors who can invest into your technology or you can find angel investors in Thailand, Singapore, Malaysia, or India. 

 

I'll seek out consultation and reach out to some relevant firms. If it's really as easy as being hired to a new tech company, then that is very ideal. This is something I'm highly interested in so I will persue it alongside long term residency. The S-class SMART visa has slightly different requirements, listed on the SMART visa web portal. As you can see, the biggest requirement is getting the nod from the DEPA or NIA. As of this point it means I'm waiting a decision from them. In this case I'll let that process play out while still working otherwise.

 

I would, for example, just go the land investment route, but I still would like some clarity on wether working from home would run me afoul of the work rules. An amity treaty company seems like another good choice as well. I'll speak more about what may be most viable. SMART would be nice, but seems more like a prestige visa compared to some of the others.

Edited December 16, 2018 by FarangDoingHisThing69

[impulse]

If you want to climb a mountain, I'd ask the guys who have already been to the top, not the guys who camp out in the lodge and come up with reasons not to even try it.

 

Bangkok, Chiang Mai and some other locations have shared work spaces where digital nomads rock up and do what they do.  You won't find them posting visa advice on TVF, for various reasons.  Mostly because they have better things to do, and obviously don't get a lot of respect here.

 

On your next trip, find some of those shared work spaces and ask the folks who may not have reached the top of the mountain yet, but are further along the path than the lodge.

 

[ukrules]

If you're going to incorporate in Thailand and have a Thai business partner who you trust with 51% of 'your' private companies shares then sure, start hiring and give yourself a job. This is an easy process from what I understand.

 

If you're an American then look into Amity treaty companies, not sure on the rules for those but I believe you might be able to actually own all of your company instead of 49% or BOI like someone else mentioned.

 

Or, just setup a small office in Thailand employing the minimum number of people to get yourself a visa / work permit and contract with your offshore entity whatever it is / wherever it is.

 

You mention military application, it's not bomb detectors is it ? LOL, someone already tried that.

Edited December 16, 2018 by ukrules