Latest from USA Embassy as of 14 December

[DrJack54]

2 minutes ago, NanLaew said:

And your point is well taken. At 72, he was possibly an infrequent visitor and unaware of all the ins and outs of preserving some sort of longevity of stay. I am sure that there's probably an equal-sized band of elderly, long-term residents who, either by lack of having access to the internet or simply having a shrinking circle of friends to meet and chat with socially, the 'old fashioned' way, that will be similarly disconnected from the faster-changing world they still inhabit. It's sad but inevitable.

You are so missing the point. Old fella was not disconnected because of age. Month ago in udon thani was chatting to youngish UK fella. Have run into him few time. Anyway he has Thai gf and is fortunate enough (financially) to visit often. They have 6 month old baby. Not married.  So he was telling me about his visa runs and other related issues being a pain.  I mentioned that as a parent of Thai dependent he could obtain non o. Had never heard of it. He has visited for years. Btw, not a stupid guy. I won't bore forum but could relate many stories similar. 

[NanLaew]

13 minutes ago, DrJack54 said:

You are so missing the point. Old fella was not disconnected because of age. Month ago in udon thani was chatting to youngish UK fella. Have run into him few time. Anyway he has Thai gf and is fortunate enough (financially) to visit often. They have 6 month old baby. Not married.  So he was telling me about his visa runs and other related issues being a pain.  I mentioned that as a parent of Thai dependent he could obtain non o. Had never heard of it. He has visited for years. Btw, not a stupid guy. I won't bore forum but could relate many stories similar. 

You brought up a valid 'for instance' that indicated that old guys are disconnected; and I agreed, simply offering some reasons why. You jump in saying I've missed the point with the older blokes.... but before enlarging on that opinion, you introduce the frankly bleeding obvious that there's probably a similar amount of ignorant younger blokes. I still agree. My point is, regardless of their age and gender, if they don't use the internet, socialize with their peers, don't ask questions but otherwise chose to live in their own wee bubble, the end result is all the same.

 

Now, if you can introduce your personal knowledge of a middle-aged female with a similar Thai immigration myopia, to which I will yet again fully agree, I guess we're done?

Edited December 19, 2018 by NanLaew

[moe666]

Here we go again kicking this old horse again. No more letters what ever the reason being, good or bad no more letters is a fact. What will now be required is not known until the top guys at Immigration come up with their requirements. Beating this tired dead horse one more time will not change a thing.

[marcus111]

No put down from me fforest1...

The genuine that have the income required have been left out in the cold because of all the false affidavit's being done by many and thai immigration has had enough I would say..!!!

I would suggest you are one of those that have contributed to this thus your reply.

May I add no worries for me mate, I came to Thailand many years ago with my eyes open and cashed up for any change.

800K or 2000000K ...It does not bother me....Unlike yourself by the sounds of it. 

Good luck to you now that you have to be honest.

May I add I wish all that have the required income all the best for a resolution to this dilemma.

[JLCrab]

9 hours ago, NanLaew said:

there is absolutely no evidence of the monthly income method ever being successfully accepted by any Immigration office

Well of course not -- they looked at an embassy affidavit in lieu of hard copy proof of income. Whether they will put in any method, e.g. FTT-type monthly 65K+ deposit to in lieu of the income affidavit, I have no idea. I would hope so but not counting on it.

Edited December 19, 2018 by JLCrab

[KhunFred]

On 12/18/2018 at 10:45 PM, marcus111 said:

Totally agree with dddave.

Abuse by getting income affidavits is I believe is wide spread. I do the 800k baht requirement every year as I like to be honest and in all honesty if you are genuine and receive an income from your said affidavit as submitted to said embassy surely you have 800k thousand available to do it with truth.

Good to see the Thai authorities stopping the stupidity of these so called income letters.

 

There is nothing "stupid" about income letters if you cannot produce 800 thousand baht in one lump sum. The arrogance of those with that kind of money to sit idle, is amazing. My total pension is much more than the required amount but I LIVE on my funds. I can't borrow 800 thousand baht here and they seem to be trying to close the door on visa services, which is a door they opened to feather their own nests. Many on TVF seem to believe that monthly income expats are some sort of "subculture" which is barely one paycheck away from the street. I can understand why Thais do not understand the system of sworn affidavits, given that lying has little impact here.  It is a fact that the embassy offered to prosecute any valid cases that Immigration could produce, but that was not good enough. Thanks for marginalizing me and others who live here on a monthly income.

[JLCrab]

18 minutes ago, KhunFred said:

Thanks for marginalizing me and others who live here on a monthly income.

Maybe you should look at marriage visa 'Multiple Entry (valid for 1 year) non ‘O’ visas are available ONLY at Savannahket without financial evidence' posted as of July.

Edited December 19, 2018 by JLCrab

[bkk6060]

11 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

Was not point of my post. (BTW he is 72 and came back to visit his Thai (elderly) gf. Point of post is that many farang don't consult Thaivisa. Hence are not aware of changes etc. For every expat reading these forums there are sooooo many that do not and might be surprised when they go to embassy for affidavit next year. 

??

Yeah well, when they go online to make their appt. it is clearly stated that the letters/appts. for such are no longer available after Dec. 31.  

So what is the point of your post? 

[bkk6060]

12 hours ago, Benmart said:

 

 

That being said, next June I will deposit the 80k baht in a Thai bank in order to remain here.

Well, you better hope you got's 720,000 more because 80 k ain't goin to cut it...…

[ocddave]

9 hours ago, moe666 said:

Here we go again kicking this old horse again. No more letters what ever the reason being, good or bad no more letters is a fact. What will now be required is not known until the top guys at Immigration come up with their requirements. Beating this tired dead horse one more time will not change a thing.

Well actually it is, you need 400K or 800K in a bank account seasoned for 2-3 months, depending on your VISA or current status. Anything else is just speculation, or specific to only certain Immigration Offices, so really there is a solution, people just need to accept it, and get it done.

[malt25]

15 hours ago, gaviny said:

Yesterday at the Oz Embassy a person in front of me also had a long conversation with the notarizer and I could hear him saying that the Embassy was wrong in denying a Aussie citizen a basic right amongst other points.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

And !

[Thaidream]

3 minutes ago, ocddave said:

Well actually it is, you need 400K or 800K in a bank account seasoned for 2-3 months, depending on your VISA or current status. Anything else is just speculation, or specific to only certain Immigration Offices, so really there is a solution, people just need to accept it, and get it done.

And if there are some people who do not have 400K or 800K to place in a Thai bank= what shall they do.  they have lived legally for years- with sufficient  monthly income to meet the law.  All are willing to accept the law- but at present- the law says there is an income method.  Until that law is changed- there will be a way to show your income stream and it will be accepted.

[luckyluke]

 

 

Some speculate that the L.o.I. won't be accepted anymore, but strangely none speculate about the 400 & 800000 ThB., as if this is something unchangeable.

 

As per now nothing has changed from the standpoint of T.I., no official statement.

 

A letter from an embassy/consulate, or from a bank is still needed,

2 documents easy to understand by all the officers of any Immigration office.

 

As mention before, if T.I. will eventually decide to amend their directives,

in my opinion, it will be for the benefit/fluency of their officers; not for that of the expats,

 

[Thaidream]

4 minutes ago, luckyluke said:

 

As mention before, if T.I. will eventually decide to amend their directives,

in my opinion, it will be for the benefit/fluency of their officers; not for that of the expats,

It could also be that a whole new retirement system is developed for the future with higher ages (65) and  higher  amounts.  They could grandfather those currently on an extension under the current system and eventually as  we leave or expire- everyone  is on the new system.

[Olmate]

12 hours ago, DrJack54 said:

You have concrete data on the minuscule comment? I'm 64 spend 60aud here every year. Sometimes more.  That is fact. I'm sure I'm not the only one. 

Correct. Every expat here will probably spend most of their income and some of their savings! Hardly minuscule at home let alone here as it doesn’t cost Thailand one baht.

[DrJack54]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

??

Yeah well, when they go online to make their appt. it is clearly stated that the letters/appts. for such are no longer available after Dec. 31.  

So what is the point of your post? 

If their renew of extension is say march, why would they make an appointment now

[gaviny]

And !

And as I said in the post after ,no point arguing your point to the notarizer,what authority has she got besides signing and stamping the letter.

Sent from my Redmi Note 6 Pro using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[luckyluke]

57 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

It could also be....

So many things are possible.

 

We are only sure of the reality of now, which include, that experiences can be different from one Immigration office to another, from one officer to another, even how one officer react to an expat in a different way  he do to another one.

 

[Tony125]

17 hours ago, Bangkok Basha said:

There is no such thing as a "Family Support Unit", Counselor. Nor has there ever been such a thing here in Bangkok. There is and always has been the American Citizen Services unit of the U.S. Consulate, which serves the passport and affidavit notarization needs of U.S. citizens. The embassy has decided, for good reason, that they can no longer be put in the position of notarizing potentially fraudulent statements for whatever purpose, especially when it concerns income declarations. If there are other embassies where ACS notarizes income affidavits, I'm sure they are also reconsidering it and will also cease doing so. The extra time required to verify income exceeds the capacity of the staffing of the unit. As the website clearly states: Services we CANNOT provide: 

• Statements beyond the Consular Officer’s knowledge: e.g. that the document satisfies specific a legal requirement, that a person is the spouse of another, or an individual is an employee of a certain business or corporation.

In any case, anyone who is not happy with this outcome can very easily demonstrate the required monthly income transferred to Thailand (if they have it) or the required amount deposited in a Thai bank. Since this is what we have all been swearing before the consular official to obtain the affidavit, I don't see what the problem is (unless of course you don't have the assets or income required).

The problem is we cannot easily demonstrate the required 65,000 baht income as Thai immigration has never accepted monthly bank deposit statements before and that is why we  had to get an affidavit from the US ( Brit,AUS, Denmark) Embassies stating we were receiving that amount each month. I transfer from my US bank more than 65,000 baht every month to Bangkok Bank but this was not acceptable to Immigration they wanted a letter from the US Embassy. Without the letter Thai Immigration has not told us  how we are to show we get 65,000 baht income a month, thus only leaving the 800,000 baht in bank method. I was told by American girl at US Embassy Dec  17th that according to Thai website they would accept monthly deposits, I told her they never have and she said upper levels were talking with immigration. I think those going for letters on the 20th Dec should remind her that if Thai Immigration accepted bank statements we would never have had to come to the Embassy to get income verification letters.

[bkk6060]

1 hour ago, DrJack54 said:

If their renew of extension is say march, why would they make an appointment now

Well, I make it a point to check the embassy website every few months to keep up on changes.

Probably most don't.  Tough luck for them.

If they cannot qualify then hire an agent and learn a lesson for next year.

[marcusarelus]

7 minutes ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, I make it a point to check the embassy website every few months to keep up on changes.

Probably most don't.  Tough luck for them.

If they cannot qualify then hire an agent and learn a lesson for next year.

That's kind of grandfatherly.  Don't they email you?  They let me know of any changes within seconds of the decision.  ????

[OJAS]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

It could also be that a whole new retirement system is developed for the future with higher ages (65) and  higher  amounts.  They could grandfather those currently on an extension under the current system and eventually as  we leave or expire- everyone  is on the new system.

I was accused of scare-mongering when I made a similar suggestion in another thread recently! But I'm not sure whether it would be wise to bank on any future system change as you have described being grandfathered, even though grandfathering has been permitted in the past.

Edited December 20, 2018 by OJAS

[OJAS]

22 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

That's kind of grandfatherly.  Don't they email you?  They let me know of any changes within seconds of the decision.  ????

The British Embassy most certainly don't - on spurious data protection grounds.

[JLCrab]

20 minutes ago, OJAS said:

But I'm not sure whether it would be wise to bank on any future system change as you have described being grandfathered, even though grandfathering has been permitted in the past.

The last grandfathering (as in the current Police Order) required that you be on continuous extension of stay via retirement for 10 years (1998-2008)

[sawadeeken]

I can't help but to have my own idea that there could be some Thai Govt. scheme to bring more cash into Thailand.......

I would not be surprised to learn that Thailand has made some 'arrangemrnts' with certain countries embassies to force expats to bring 800,000 baht to Thailand........... This Thai govt now days are making so many plays to improve the image of Thailand (falsely) that my therorie kind makes sense.... If you think about it...... all of the 800,000 bahts (per expat) that come into Thailand tend to boost the amount of 'assets' that Thailand can boast about (in their posession)..... and bottom line, the amount of money (value) that is within the country of Thailand, enhanses it's image (face)........... Strictly my own opinion but if you waste a bit of your time to analyse this possible scheme, you might think a bit as I do.........

Ask yourself why all the embassies are 'all of a sudden' doing this???????? 

Deals are made every day that we don't 'suspect' ..... and certainly in Thailand......

Do you think for a minute that the 'Heads of our embassies' cannot be involved in 'deals'......... I admit I have no proof, so let's wait and see........... But I do 'suspect' this present Thai Govt a lot...... And their 'motives'........

[ubonjoe]

16 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The last grandfathering (as in the current Police Order) required that you be on continuous extension of stay via retirement for 10 years (1998-2008)

Only from 1998 to the present date. The police orders since then have had the same clause in them.

[JLCrab]

22 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

40 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

The last grandfathering (as in the current Police Order) required that you be on continuous extension of stay via retirement for 10 years (1998-2008)

Only from 1998 to the present date. The police orders since then have had the same clause in them.

But when it was referenced in the previous 777/2551 (2008) Police Order it was 10 years.

Edited December 20, 2018 by JLCrab

[Olmate]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

Well, I make it a point to check the embassy website every few months to keep up on changes.

Probably most don't.  Tough luck for them.

If they cannot qualify then hire an agent and learn a lesson for next year.

Thought the point was about those a bit on in years and perhaps not as up to speed on these amendments, show a bit of understanding and a little less tough talk, it’s done to death here

[ubonjoe]

37 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

But when it was referenced in the previous 777/2551 (2008) Police Order it was 10 years.

Just coincidental that the it was 10 years.

It is the same in police order 327/2557 (2014) and the one before 777/2551 which was 606/2549 (2006).

[JLCrab]

9 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

ust coincidental that the it was 10 years.

It is the same in police order 327/2557 (2014) and the one before 777/2551 which was 606/2549 (2006).

There is a time lag that one must be on continuous stay for grandfathering and at the 777/2551 Order it was 10 years and if it was in the 2006 Order then it would have been 8 years. That indicates that one will likely not be eligible for grandfathering should such occur in the near term if they have only been on retirement extension for 2 or 3 years.