UK visa for someone with drug conviction

[ponder]

I am travelling to the UK next March, and I plan to take my Civil Partner with me. He has been to the UL several times in the last ten years, and he has also had a Schengen visa in that time. The problem is that he has just spent 30 months in prison for a drugs offense, and the visa application form requests information about criminal convictions. Is it likely that he will be refused because of his crime?  

[DrJack54]

So just to clarify for readers. The "civil partner" is Thai and has just spent 30 months in a Thai prison? Also your a UK citizen? 

[ponder]

My partner is Thai and has recently been released from a Thai prison, but I am an Irish citizen. Most of my family live in England, and that is where our Civil Partnership was formed in 2017.

[DrJack54]

If it was me I wouldn't mention it. With a serious conviction (30 months jail) you would imagine it might be very difficult to obtain a visa. I am only familiar with tourist visas to AU, but they do not require police clearance check. What does work in his favour is previous trips to UK with visa conditions, that no doubt he adhered to. 

[theoldgit]

Not mentioning the conviction and subsequent period of imprisonment when specifically asked is of course an option for the applicant but if it is discovered that the applicant has lied in his application, he could not only have his application refused but could also face a ban of ten years for making subsequent applications.
If Entry Clearance is granted and the Border Force Officer at the UK Border believes that that visa has been has been obtained fraudulently, which it would have been, then he could be denied entry, the visa cancelled and he would be sent back home, that would also need to be declared in future applications.
He could of course fail to tell the truth and might get away with it, but the advice on this forum is to always answer specific questions honestly.


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

[ponder]

Thank you both for your replies. I have decided to consult an Immigration lawyer before I decide what to do. Hopefully, he will give me some clear advice, and I will share it here if I think it is helpful for anyone in a similar situation. 

[7by7]

5 hours ago, ponder said:

I have decided to consult an Immigration lawyer before I decide what to do. Hopefully, he will give me some clear advice

If he is in anyway competent and reputable, his advice will be the same as theoldgit's

 

7 hours ago, theoldgit said:

always answer specific questions honestly.

 

Unfortunately, this may mean his being refused under para 320(2)(c) the Immigration Rules

Quote

Grounds on which entry clearance or leave to enter the United Kingdom is to be refused

 

(2) the fact that the person seeking entry to the United Kingdom:

 

(c) has been convicted of an offence for which they have been sentenced to a period of imprisonment of at least 12 months but less than 4 years, unless a period of 10 years has passed since the end of the sentence

 Whilst that is not good news, the penalty for lying is worse

Quote

(7A) where false representations have been made or false documents or information have been submitted (whether or not material to the application, and whether or not to the applicant’s knowledge), or material facts have not been disclosed, in relation to the application...…..

 

(7B) where the applicant has previously breached the UK’s immigration laws (and was 18 or over at the time of his most recent breach)by:

 

(d) using Deception in an application for entry clearance

Note that there is no time limit on (7B)(d), so if he lies and is caught that could mean a ban from entering the UK for life.

 

All of the above applies to non settlement visas such as a visit, not to family settlement under Appendix FM.

 

HOWEVER, that's the bad news, now for the good.

 

You say

10 hours ago, ponder said:

I am an Irish citizen

So your partner can, at least until Brexit, apply to enter the UK under the EEA rules, provided he is travelling with or to join you.  In which case as far as I am aware he wont be asked about past criminal convictions, though he should answer truthfully if he is. Also the application will be free. See Apply for an EEA family permit from outside the UK

[ponder]

Thank you 7by7. When I meet the lawyer, I will show him your post about the EEA application. I was not going to lie about the criminal conviction because I know that there would be very serious consquences if the authorities discovered the truth.

 

I think it is rather harsh to exclude people who have served their sentence and paid for their crime, but if that is the way it is, there is no point in complaining. 

[DrJack54]

On 12/24/2018 at 12:28 PM, ponder said:

Thank you 7by7. When I meet the lawyer, I will show him your post about the EEA application. I was not going to lie about the criminal conviction because I know that there would be very serious consquences if the authorities discovered the truth.

 

I think it is rather harsh to exclude people who have served their sentence and paid for their crime, but if that is the way it is, there is no point in complaining. 

First of all I think following the excellent advice from 7by7 is best option. I don't wish to sound negative, but you made comment about "done the time" routine. If I was UK citizen I know what my attitude would be to visa for someone just completed jail term of that length. Bit surprised your even considering it, but of course that's your business and having said all that I wish you good luck with application.

[bojo]

If you can discover whether each application is verified for criminal convictions by an immigration lawyer, you can make a decision.

If however you can't ascertain that info and from 7by7's quotes...if you're honest about the convictions, the visa will be refused. Then you will have to wait 10 years unless there are any special exceptions which you aren't currently aware of. I doubt that though.

So, if it was me and I couldn't wait 10 years and I really wanted the visa, I would take a chance and lie. Nothing to lose in eyes as 10 years seems like a lifetime anyway.......

[ponder]

On 12/26/2018 at 10:54 PM, DrJack54 said:

...you made comment about "done the time" routine. If I was UK citizen I know what my attitude would be to visa for someone just completed jail term of that length. 

I do not want to get into an argument here; my partner broke the law and bore his punishment with dignity. I visited him every week during his thirty-month incarceration, and I felt very sorry for the other (mostly very young) prisoners, the majority of whom had no visitors and had to eat food that was barely edible. To put it in perspective, in the UK, my partner would not have been put into prison at all for his offense (possession of 0.7g of Ice). Having said that, he broke the law and received the standard punishment.

 

On the day of his release a few months ago, I went to pick him up, and there were four other guys being allowed home. There was nobody waiting for any of them, and three of them did not even have money to get the ‘bus home (my partner helped them out). I could not help wondering how long it would be before they would be back in prison.

 

Anyway, as I said earlier, I do not want to get into a debate on this issue, so thanks for all the positive information and comments, and I will post any advice that I receive from my solicitor when I get it.

[totally thaied up]

20 minutes ago, ponder said:

I do not want to get into an argument here; my partner broke the law and bore his punishment with dignity. I visited him every week during his thirty-month incarceration, and I felt very sorry for the other (mostly very young) prisoners, the majority of whom had no visitors and had to eat food that was barely edible. To put it in perspective, in the UK, my partner would not have been put into prison at all for his offense (possession of 0.7g of Ice). Having said that, he broke the law and received the standard punishment.

 

On the day of his release a few months ago, I went to pick him up, and there were four other guys being allowed home. There was nobody waiting for any of them, and three of them did not even have money to get the ‘bus home (my partner helped them out). I could not help wondering how long it would be before they would be back in prison.

 

Anyway, as I said earlier, I do not want to get into a debate on this issue, so thanks for all the positive information and comments, and I will post any advice that I receive from my solicitor when I get it.

My ex-girlfriend's sister did 4 years for Ice. If it was not for I taking in food every Sunday and a bit of cash, her time would have been very hard. When she got released 5 years ago, she could not get work at all. The conviction followed her everywhere. She now knits hats at home and goes into town to sell them to the Chinese tourists on the streets. 

 

Get a drug conviction here, it sticks. I hope it works out for you.

[theoldgit]

Please lets stick to the visa related question.

[ponder]

53 minutes ago, totally thaied up said:

My ex-girlfriend's sister did 4 years for Ice. If it was not for I taking in food every Sunday and a bit of cash, her time would have been very hard. When she got released 5 years ago, she could not get work at all. The conviction followed her everywhere. She now knits hats at home and goes into town to sell them to the Chinese tourists on the streets. 

 

Get a drug conviction here, it sticks. I hope it works out for you.

I had the same experience with my friend when he was in prison. Sharing a room with 70 others with no space to breathe and one toilet to share is no joke, but I brought him enough cash to make sure that he was as comfortable as possible in the circumstances. At one point I paid a bribe to get him into a less cramped room, but later when they moved him back, he told me not to pay any more cash, and he just got used to it.

 

I must say one thing about the prison he was in (Klong Prem): it seems to be well-run, and it appears that there are no drugs there. He also said that the prison staff were quite ok to deal with.

 

As for getting work post-release, I do not know yet as (luckily) it is not an urgent requirement.

 

I hope your ex’s sister will be ok.

[ponder]

 

23 minutes ago, theoldgit said:

Please lets stick to the visa related question.

I agree. We are getting off-topic (mea culpa).

[Tony M]

You need to read the attached.   Pages 16 & 17 are relevant, as they include information on EEA nationals and their dependants.  The pages after that deal with applicants who have received sentences and prison terms. Do note the use of the word "must" in, for instance, "you must", you being the ECO looking at the application.

GGFR-Section-1-v28.pdf

[7by7]

From page 17 of that document

Quote

European Economic Area (EEA) nationals and their family members
The Immigration Rules and revised criminality framework does not apply to EEA nationals, or their family members, exercising treaty rights in the UK. Unless the EEA national specifically wants to apply for leave within the rules, for example, as the spouse of a UK national.

Which I think means the OP's civil partner can apply under the EEA rules and his conviction will not be taken into account.

 

The paragraph on derivative rights can be ignored as this does not apply to the OP's partner.

 

Can you confirm, please, @Tony M

[Tony M]

On 12/28/2018 at 6:05 PM, 7by7 said:

From page 17 of that document

Which I think means the OP's civil partner can apply under the EEA rules and his conviction will not be taken into account.

 

The paragraph on derivative rights can be ignored as this does not apply to the OP's partner.

 

Can you confirm, please, @Tony M

That's the way I read it too, 7x7.  I'm not sure if the ECO, or UKVI, could still use "character, conduct and associations" to try to refuse. The OP should look into that too.

[7by7]

2 hours ago, Tony M said:

That's the way I read it too, 7x7.

Thanks.

 

2 hours ago, Tony M said:

I'm not sure if the ECO, or UKVI, could still use "character, conduct and associations" to try to refuse. The OP should look into that too.

Indeed.

 

Though, of course, after the Brexit transition period (31/12/20?) the point will be moot as the OP's partner will then have to apply for a visit visa under the immigration rules and so be subject to, amongst other requirements, para 320. 

[GinBoy2]

This is a musing, rather than advice.

 

In the US system you can probably say whatever you want as part of a tourist visa application, and there is no criminal background check carried out.

 

But fast forward to if and when an immigrant visa is applied for, that 'lie' on a tourist visa application is gonna come back and bite you, when the criminal background check is actually required.

 

I doubt the US and UK are that different when if comes to this.

 

All all bit of a crap shoot on today's needs and whatever may be required in the future.

 

Good Luck with all of it

[ponder]

Hi.

 

Thanks for your information. 

 

I think I definitely need to consult a specialist lawyer about this, as it seems quite complicated. 

 

The application form does ask about criminal convictions, but 7by7 and TonyM point out that EEA nationals (me) and their spouses (the applicant, my Civil Partner) are exempt from these conditions:

 

The document to which TonyM refers (which seem to be a guide for Immigration officials) states that:

"The Immigration Rules and revised criminality framework does not apply to EEA nationals, or their family members, exercising treaty rights in the UK. Unless the EEA national specifically wants to apply for leave within the rules, for example, as the spouse of a UK national."

 

I am still not sure whether there is another  "criminality framework" apart from the "revised" one...

 

 

 

 

Edited January 2, 2019 by ponder