Trump widens demands in wall standoff, threatens Mexico border closure

[EVENKEEL]

Just now, bristolboy said:

Is it unreasonable to say that there is a percentage of violent crime committed by American citizens?

That has not one iota to do with the "Border Bead Curtain" Definitely a troll comment. Bye - Bye before poppa puts me to bed.  

[mikebike]

3 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Is it unreasonable to say that there is a percentage of violent crime committed in the US by illegals?

Absolutely not.

 

Relevant policy making would look at the percentages committed by ALL groups in society and then prioritize legislation based on percentages.

 

45 relies on his ego and “gut”... Somewhat less-than-effective policy planning.

[garyk]

If you don't live down here you have no idea what is going on plain and simple. 

Even the Mexican locals don't want them???? I live in a Mexican city close to the border. Better be glad they don't have the last word or they would be lined up agains a wall.. 

 

[simple1]

2 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Is it unreasonable to say that there is a percentage of violent crime committed in the US by illegals? I think not, now we have the repercussion of sanctuary cities. A lot of other issues need to be addressed but the "Border Bead Curtain" is a start in the right direction. 

Of course not, but what should the policy response be? Does not trump's attitude of vilification make law enforcement jobs a lot more difficult by alienating communities?  So far as I know sanctuary cities do not protect criminals for whom an arrest warrant has been issued.

 

Personally I would think correct level  of funding / resources for processing of asylum seekers, overstayers and identifying US nationals employing (more correctly illegal exploitation) of illegals would be a good step in the right direction, rather than a Wall whom subject matter experts identify as not a suitable solution. 

[keemapoot]

13 minutes ago, helpisgood said:

 He can also eventually build his presidential library next to it, although it will be filled with mostly videos of Hannity, Fox & Friends, The Apprentice, his bankruptcy papers and maybe, just maybe, finally his tax returns. 

And...there was some good news today that Mueller may even have a "selfie" of Trump to add to the Presidential library at the new Presidential library at The Wall. 

Quote

Please, for the love of god let this not be a photo of President Mushroom Cap, no one needs to see that. No. One.

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/does-robert-mueller-photo-trumps-171700275.html

[Zombies]

1 hour ago, mikebike said:

Do you REALLY want me to start listing random acts of violence, against police and civilians, perpetrated by home-grown criminals which resulted families needing consolation?

 

Why does anyone think that random, subjective, stories - from either side - prove anything?

 

The problem with this argument is that you are elevating illegal aliens to the same level & platform as a countries own citizens, which is the countries first and only obligation. 

 

Illegal aliens shouldn't even be in the country in the first place, so how in the hell is that a valid argument? 

 

Your implied argument here is that illegal aliens are somehow better than a countries own citizens. 

 

My takeaway from this is... Why? 

 

Why do you fight so hard for illegal aliens? No other first world country as to deal with such a burden, yet somehow you think the US should? 

[TopDeadSenter]

3 hours ago, simple1 said:

Additionally refugees are a net contributor to the US economy; the report was suppressed by trump.

I am seeing an immediate problem with your post. Donald's Great Southern Wall - the topic of this thread - has absolutely nothing to do with "refugees". All the economic migrants, drug smugglers, gang bangers and assorted riff-raff storming the border are not refugees. Whether refugees are even of economic benefit to the host nation is debatable - in Europe it is not the case, but that is mainly due to an over generous welfare system. A system that essentially rewards them to stay home and have as many kids as possible.

 Real refugees, those fleeing state persecution and in fear for their lives, can easily prove their case at an embassy close to where they are residing. In most cases there would be no need for them to storm the border. Trump's wall is necessary for security, and thus it will be built.

[simple1]

6 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

Donald's Great Southern Wall - the topic of this thread - has absolutely nothing to do with "refugees"

You are taking nonsense about the process for asylum seekers from Central America applying for entry to the US.

 

Asylum / humanitarian visa seekers are constantly referred to in negotiations between Mexico and the US regards the Wall and developing applicable policy. IMO to the disadvantage to Mexico for domestic stability. e.g.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/12/20/us/politics/mexico-trump-asylum-seekers-migrants.html

Edited December 29, 2018 by simple1

[Becker]

11 minutes ago, TopDeadSenter said:

 Donald's Great Southern Wall....

[Zombies]

Why is almost everyone in this thread advocating for illegal aliens? 

 

I just don't understand it. Not even 10 years ago all the top dems were all for border security and walls, and now all of a sudden its "defend illegal aliens"....

[stevenl]

47 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Is it unreasonable to say that there is a percentage of violent crime committed in the US by illegals? I think not, now we have the repercussion of sanctuary cities. A lot of other issues need to be addressed but the "Border Bead Curtain" is a start in the right direction. 

You're completely missing the point.

 

Why not first take a look at the numbers of illegals entering by which means and which way. And also don't forget to look at the financials and crime statistics. Are illegals really a major problem?

[Zombies]

6 minutes ago, stevenl said:

And also don't forget to look at the financials and crime statistics. Are illegals really a major problem?

 

Why are you advocating for illegal aliens? 

[eeworldwide]

I can’t see what the issue is about building a wall. What’s wrong with wanting a secure border? It seems to me that certain factions are conflating issues to do with asylum seekers with illegal immigrants. There are laws in all countries regarding immigration and if they are disobeyed there are consequences. 

Its rather annoying hearing people saying all these

people in caravans are somehow victims... what are the USA meant to do? Just let everyone in and hope for the best? Build the wall and move on.

[mikebike]

15 minutes ago, Zombies said:

 

Why are you advocating for illegal aliens? 

Try to understand. Virtually NO ONE is advocating for illegal aliens.

 

Many ARE advocating for changes to immigration policy based on data-driven policy decisions, as opposed to an ego-driven, pork-laden, boondoggle which will not reduce “illegals” in any way, shape, or form.

[mikebike]

13 minutes ago, eeworldwide said:

What’s wrong with wanting a secure border?

Nothing.

 

Unfortunately a boondoggle, 1000 yr old solution (wall) will not make the border more secure than modern, cost effective, surveillance and properly trained and supported boots on the ground and judges in the courts.

[Chomper Higgot]

32 minutes ago, Zombies said:

Why is almost everyone in this thread advocating for illegal aliens? 

 

I just don't understand it. Not even 10 years ago all the top dems were all for border security and walls, and now all of a sudden its "defend illegal aliens"....

You got confused by your very own strawman argument.

 

There’s nobody can help you with that.

[stevenl]

26 minutes ago, Zombies said:

 

Why are you advocating for illegal aliens? 

Why do you say I am advocating for illegal aliens?

[Chomper Higgot]

20 minutes ago, eeworldwide said:

I can’t see what the issue is about building a wall. What’s wrong with wanting a secure border? It seems to me that certain factions are conflating issues to do with asylum seekers with illegal immigrants. There are laws in all countries regarding immigration and if they are disobeyed there are consequences. 

Its rather annoying hearing people saying all these

people in caravans are somehow victims... what are the USA meant to do? Just let everyone in and hope for the best? Build the wall and move on.

You yourself are conflating a wall with a secure border.

 

A wall is not a secure border.

 

The House and Senate has bi-partisan support for a raft of ‘evidence based’ measures to secure the border, Trump refuses to sign because right wing mouthpieces on Fox/Talk Radio told him they wanted a wall.

 

 

[Zombies]

14 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Many ARE advocating for changes to immigration policy based on data-driven policy decisions, as opposed to an ego-driven, pork-laden, boondoggle which will not reduce “illegals” in any way, shape, or form.

 

8 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

You got confused by your very own strawman argument.

 

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Why do you say I am advocating for illegal aliens?

 

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

A wall is not a secure border.

 

Literally none of you want to stop illegal immigration. 

[Zombies]

10 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The House and Senate has bi-partisan support for a raft of ‘evidence based’ measures to secure the border, Trump refuses to sign because right wing mouthpieces on Fox/Talk Radio told him they wanted a wall.

 

You're lying. The house & senate have "a raft" of literal continuation bills that do nothing. 

[Becker]

6 minutes ago, Zombies said:

 

 

 

 

Literally none of you want to stop illegal immigration. 

You just don't get it, do you.

[metisdead]

Some troll posts have been removed. 

[Bluespunk]

1 hour ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I am seeing an immediate problem with your post. Donald's Great Southern Wall - the topic of this thread - has absolutely nothing to do with "refugees". All the economic migrants, drug smugglers, gang bangers and assorted riff-raff storming the border are not refugees. Whether refugees are even of economic benefit to the host nation is debatable - in Europe it is not the case, but that is mainly due to an over generous welfare system. A system that essentially rewards them to stay home and have as many kids as possible.

 Real refugees, those fleeing state persecution and in fear for their lives, can easily prove their case at an embassy close to where they are residing. In most cases there would be no need for them to storm the border. Trump's wall is necessary for security, and thus it will be built.

“Trump's wall is necessary for security, and thus it will be built.”

 

No it isn’t and no it won’t. 

[mikebike]

23 minutes ago, Zombies said:

Literally none of you want to stop illegal immigration. 

You just aren’t listening. Everyone you quoted wants to stop illegal immigration. It’s just that we want to do it in a way which will WORK. Personally, I have yet to find a door, wall, or other physical impediment which I cannot bypass fairly easily if needed. So why would I want to spend my tax dollars on a scheme proven ineffective a millennia ago? Immigration POLICY is decades old and out of date.

 

Update the policy, give border agents modern equipment, train them properly, and ensure they have the financial resources to do their jobs. That’s how you begin to stop illegal immigration.

[lvr181]

5 hours ago, mikebike said:

I believe that is the implication. 45 is so far up his own butt on this he believes it is a winning strategy. 

He had a 'strategy'?? The only one I can remember is "Mexico will pay for the wall"!! Like many politicians before him, just a load of horse sh$t to get elected.

 

Really, how was he going to enforce that? Surprise(?), his voters forgot to ask themselves that!

 

The "blind leading the blind"? 

[Zombies]

13 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Everyone you quoted wants to stop illegal immigration.

 

Lie. 

 

13 minutes ago, mikebike said:

It’s just that we want to do it in a way which will WORK. Personally, I have yet to find a door, wall, or other physical impediment which I cannot bypass fairly easily if needed. So why would I want to spend my tax dollars on a scheme proven ineffective a millennia ago? Immigration POLICY is decades old and out of date.

 

Your girl Chuck, 2009, negating everything you just said. 

 

 

 

 

[howbri]

16 minutes ago, mikebike said:

You just aren’t listening. Everyone you quoted wants to stop illegal immigration. It’s just that we want to do it in a way which will WORK. Personally, I have yet to find a door, wall, or other physical impediment which I cannot bypass fairly easily if needed. So why would I want to spend my tax dollars on a scheme proven ineffective a millennia ago? Immigration POLICY is decades old and out of date.

 

Update the policy, give border agents modern equipment, train them properly, and ensure they have the financial resources to do their jobs. That’s how you begin to stop illegal immigration.

Illegals are future democrat voters. Build the damn wall and keep out the invaders.

[mikebike]

9 minutes ago, Zombies said:

 

Lie. 

 

 

Your girl Chuck, 2009, negating everything you just said. 

 

 

 

 

Why on God’s green earth would anyone believe what Schumer OR 45 says? They are both political stooges rooted in old-school corporate centrism and ensconced completely in their own (very different) bubbles, or echo chambers.

[Zombies]

1 minute ago, mikebike said:

Why on God’s green earth would anyone believe what Schumer OR 45 says? They are both political stooges rooted in old-school corporate centrism and ensconced completely in their own (very different) bubbles, or echo chambers.

 

So... you're sooo far to the left that even your own party is full of it? 

 

Yet you want people here to believe that your opinions are mainstream?

 

And that people like me are "far right racists"?

 

What?

[Zombies]

5 minutes ago, mikebike said:

Why do you think that? Have you conversed directly with any of us? Or are you content with shouting out your unsubstantiated bias?

 

You advocate for illegal aliens, and you do it in a manor that is extremely hardcore.