Harris Lies, Americans Die. Illegal Aliens are more Important

[Jingthing]

Just now, Bang Bang said:

Arrivals by plane have their passports/entry recorded are (theoretically) trackable. Those that swim the Rio Grande are not. The latter need to be kept out. Period.

Yeah, people are really going to buy that's the excuse that "trump" fans are so obsessed with keeping out Latin Americans specifically. Uh huh. 

[bristolboy]

2 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Arrivals by plane have their passports/entry recorded are (theoretically) trackable. Those that swim the Rio Grande are not. The latter need to be kept out. Period.

Why such a high priority? The number of illegal immigrants entering via the southern border has dropped drastically. What makes them such a threat that so many additional dollars on top of what is already expended have to be devoted to keeping them out?

[Bang Bang]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

As was remarked by a senator more or less , "A wall is a 4th century solution to a 21st century problem. Electronic monitors, drones, satellites, etc are far more suitable and far less expensive. 

Well, the Israelis seem to have made that danged 4th century doohickey work. And is there a more security-minded people then those sons of guns?

 

Not to mention that the Israelis possess the most advanced tech in terms of drones and monitors and such gizmos. And yet they build themselves nice long walls. Would you believe that?

Edited December 29, 2018 by Bang Bang

[Hummin]

2 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

As was remarked by a senator more or less , "A wall is a 4th century solution to a 21st century problem. Electronic monitors, drones, satellites, etc are far more suitable and far less expensive. 

Instead of forcing Mexico to pay for a wall, they should chip every human being on the planet, so you can track everyone everywhere. The only whay to make the world free for all the good people. Every crime will be solved, and all potential terrorists will be stopped long time before executing any attack by small drones. Thats the future, not a silly f wall

[eeworldwide]

6 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Instead of forcing Mexico to pay for a wall, they should chip every human being on the planet, so you can track everyone everywhere. The only whay to make the world free for all the good people. Every crime will be solved, and all potential terrorists will be stopped long time before executing any attack by small drones. Thats the future, not a silly f wall

That’s not my future- no way am I gonna accept a chip! Far worse than a wall!!

[Hummin]

1 minute ago, eeworldwide said:

That’s not my future- no way am I gonna accept a chip! Far worse than a wall!!

Well, most of the free world use som kind of social media, or connected to internet, credit cards, phones, and so on. We are alreade tagged far beyond good for us selves, and we can not just jump of the train. 

[Jingthing]

12 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Well, the Israelis seem to have made that danged 4th century doohickey work. And is there a more security-minded people then those sons of guns?

 

Not to mention that the Israelis possess the most advanced tech in terms of drones and monitors and such gizmos. And yet they build themselves nice long walls. Would you believe that?

Totally different security situation there and I would not suggest that the USA try to copy the policies of Israel the same as I wouldn't suggest that any other nation in the world copy the specific mechanics of American style democracy. 

[bristolboy]

15 minutes ago, Bang Bang said:

Well, the Israelis seem to have made that danged 4th century doohickey work. And is there a more security-minded people then those sons of guns?

 

Not to mention that the Israelis possess the most advanced tech in terms of drones and monitors and such gizmos. And yet they build themselves nice long walls. Would you believe that?

Unlike the situation in the USA, the West Bank Border wall is meant to keep out people who are trying to kill Israelis. So it's very heavily manned. It must be very expensive to patrol. But for the Israelis the price is worth it.  The people crossing over from Mexico are trying to kill vegetables by picking and packing them. Or maybe breaking an occasional dish in a restaurant. 

I know Trumpistas keep warning that terrorists are crossing the Southern border. But they must be a very inferior variety of terrorist since so far they haven't killed anyone.

[Bang Bang]

14 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Totally different security situation there and I would not suggest that the USA try to copy the policies of Israel the same as I wouldn't suggest that any other nation in the world copy the specific mechanics of American style democracy. 

If you are aspersing Israeli policy toward Arabs, I am with you. However, they have proved that walls serve the purpose of preventing (or substantially reducing) unsanctioned entry.

[BestB]

Maybe should give wall building contract to Russia .

 

Russia built one in Crimea in 2 years for $3 million with night vision cams, and all the rest bells and whistles

[Bang Bang]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Unlike the situation in the USA, the West Bank Border wall is meant to keep out people who are trying to kill Israelis. So it's very heavily manned. It must be very expensive to patrol. But for the Israelis the price is worth it.  The people crossing over from Mexico are trying to kill vegetables by picking and packing them. Or maybe breaking an occasional dish in a restaurant. 

I know Trumpistas keep warning that terrorists are crossing the Southern border. But they must be a very inferior variety of terrorist since so far they haven't killed anyone.

So, you are saying benign illegals should be tolerated and not really be thought illegal?

 

Well, then make that official. If their skills are needed, be it in picking veggies or washing dishes or whatever, give them a way to come in legally and be employed legally. Ain't nobody going to complain.

 

But till then them folks is illegal and need to stay out.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Bang Bang said:

If you are aspersing Israeli policy toward Arabs, I am with you. However, they have proved that walls serve the purpose of preventing (or substantially reducing) unsanctioned entry.

At what is most likely a tremendous cost. But one they are willing to pay because the people crossing mean them harm. 

Illegal immigration to the USA has already declined dramatically. What is the cost vs. benefit of building a wall?

You would think from the claims of pro wall parties that the US has open borders.

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Bang Bang said:

If you are aspersing Israeli policy toward Arabs, I am with you. However, they have proved that walls serve the purpose of preventing (or substantially reducing) unsanctioned entry.

Israel wouldn't want that wall if they didn't feel it was absolutely necessary. The impetus was suicide bombers not undocumented workers. The USA isn't even close to actually needing such an extreme measure from a security POV. 

[bristolboy]

10 minutes ago, BestB said:

Maybe should give wall building contract to Russia .

 

Russia built one in Crimea in 2 years for $3 million with night vision cams, and all the rest bells and whistles

Here's a photo of a section of that "wall".\

Edited December 29, 2018 by bristolboy

[arithai12]

38 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

As was remarked by a senator more or less , "A wall is a 4th century solution to a 21st century problem. Electronic monitors, drones, satellites, etc are far more suitable and far less expensive. 

and equally useless. The fact is that many US citizens are more than happy to employ an undocumented, non-english speaking maid, gardener, fruit picker if it saves them money. Without options to earn an income of any kind, most of these less fortunate people would not cross over at all.
Similarly, stopping drug mules at the border does not address the real problem, namely drug users in the USA.
 

[Bang Bang]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

You would think from the claims of pro wall parties that the US has open borders.

Well, yea, about 2000 miles worth.

 

8 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Illegal immigration to the USA has already declined dramatically. What is the cost vs. benefit of building a wall?

Ya think Trump's get-tough policies, including deportations and child separation might have something to do with this? Policies whose logical conclusion is a wall.

[Bang Bang]

3 minutes ago, arithai12 said:

Without options to earn an income of any kind, most of these less fortunate people would not cross over at all.

And they wouldn't cross over if they couldn't at all either. Like if there was an insuperable barrier. Like a wall.

 

I do agree with your economic argument though. But employment is given only after these people knock on American doors after getting in.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Bang Bang

[bristolboy]

Just now, Bang Bang said:

Well, yea, about 2000 miles worth.

 

Ya think Trump's get-tough policies, including deportations and child separation might have something to do with this? Policies whose logical conclusion is a wall.

Well if Trump was really the President starting in the Bush years you might have a point.

And of course the belief that the USA's southern border is open is just another extraordinary example of the right wing living denial On the one hand they say that the USA will be faced with a flood of illegals because of that so called open border. On the other hand illegal crossing have dramatically dropped. So, what's your explanation?

 

[BestB]

12 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Here's a photo of a section of that "wall".\

And your point is ?

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, BestB said:

And your point is ?

That ain't no wall. It's a fence. And certainly doesn't correspond to what Trump envisions.

[Bang Bang]

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

On the one hand they say that the USA will be faced with a flood of illegals because of that so called open border.

Sweetheart, you did read about migrant caravans did you not?

 

7 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

On the other hand illegal crossing have dramatically dropped. So, what's your explanation? 

Gee, you got me there, honeybunch. Mebbe because illegals think the US has finally got a President who is weely weely hostile to them and is not of the mind that if given citizenship they will add to his own party's vote bank?

Edited December 29, 2018 by Bang Bang

[BestB]

Just now, bristolboy said:

That ain't no wall. It's a fence. And certainly doesn't correspond to what Trump envisions.

Oh oh so it’s not up to your standards or you somehow know exactly what trump wants ? Did you have a meeting discussing in detail? 

[Bang Bang]

3 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

That ain't no wall. It's a fence. And certainly doesn't correspond to what Trump envisions.

Well, a physical barrier is what we deplorables want. Be it a wall, fence, rolls and rolls of barbed wire, any thing to keep those danged illegal hordes away.

[bristolboy]

1 minute ago, Bang Bang said:

Sweetheart, you did read about migrant caravans did you not?

 

Gee, you got me there, honeybunch. Mebbe because illegals think the US has finally got a President who is weely weely hostile to them and is not of the mind that they will finally add to his own vote bank?

"Sweetheart" and "Honeybunch". Smarmy much?

And did you not understand that graph? The rapid decline began with Bush and continued through the Obama Presidency. What has Trump got to do with that? 

And what has the wall got do do with the migrant caravans? Did they succeed in crossing because there was no 2000 mile long wall? I thought they didn't make it despite the lack of a wall. Exactly how much irrelevance are you trying to stuff into your reply?

[Bang Bang]

6 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

And did you not understand that graph?

Hmm, let's see: even at the very lowest monthly apprehensions are about 25k. Times 12 that's 300k illegals in a good year, going up easily to a 1,000,000 per year as the graph swings up.

 

Excellent argument for a wall. I had no idea we needed one this much.

Edited December 29, 2018 by Bang Bang

[bristolboy]

3 minutes ago, BestB said:

Oh oh so it’s not up to your standards or you somehow know exactly what trump wants ? Did you have a meeting discussing in detail? 

specs are here:

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news/nation-now/2017/03/18/whats-next-trumps-border-wall-designs-start-now-construction-planned-june/99371828/

[farangx]

54 minutes ago, BestB said:

Maybe should give wall building contract to Russia .

 

Russia built one in Crimea in 2 years for $3 million with night vision cams, and all the rest bells and whistles

That makes it $150 million for the whole wall.  No way that is going to happen.  There are billions to be made here, barbed wires alone can be valued at over a billion. ???? Plus the option to increase the costs to $10 billion.  ????

 

[direction BANGKOK]

The facts are astounding.

 

Pres candidate claims he will build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. 

 

Pres elect then scuttles his own plan and calls for a govt shutdown to fund his wall, the one he stated would be funded by Mexico. 

 

Pres elect then blames the shutdown on dems after having publicly stated he would take responsibility for it. 

 

And the story here, in the middle of his own fiasco he widens demands. 

[Hummin]

4 minutes ago, direction BANGKOK said:

The facts are astounding.

 

Pres candidate claims he will build a wall and have Mexico pay for it. 

 

Pres elect then scuttles his own plan and calls for a govt shutdown to fund his wall, the one he stated would be funded by Mexico. 

 

Pres elect then blames the shutdown on dems after having publicly stated he would take responsibility for it. 

 

And the story here, in the middle of his own fiasco he widens demands. 

Well, look at it this way, he did not get to play golf this christmas

[farcanell]

2 hours ago, Bang Bang said:

How do I explain this? Have you ever lived in a house? If you have you would know right away the utility of walls. They keep the neighbors from wandering in and falling asleep on your couch, bad people from sneaking up and helping themselves to your stuff, not to mention allowing you to do all kinds of kinky stuff with your partner without outsiders shining a light and pointing and laughing.

 

Some people who live in houses even have two sets of walls - one part of the house and the other around their property. Paranoid maybe but you'll not find a celebrity or wealthy person without them.

 

Military establishments are secured with with physical barriers as are other institutions where security is important, like nuclear power plants, prisons.

 

Do not mock walls. They are humble, plain-looking and do exactly what they are meant to.

Mmm.... they do exactly what they are meant to do.

 

correct... most significantly, from a protectionist point of view, border walls are intended as a barrier to slow down “invaders”, such that countermeasures can be deployed.... there is never any real expectation that these will actually stop the invaders, and offhand, I can’t think of a single instance were a wall alone has stopped an invasion... not one ...so a wall is only as good as its support services

 

Another significant purposes of a border wall is to regulate travel and trade... especially trade, such that taxation can be levied, as a minimum

 

border walls can also be symbolic or intimidating, as was a major point behind hadrians wall... here ends the empire!

 

trumps wall falls squarely into catorgory three... symbolic.

 

symbolic because the reasons in catorgories one and two, don’t really exist on the southern border of the United States.