Double Glazing

[esprit]

Over the years I have looked around at developments from middle to high cost for both houses and condos. The one thing I still have not seen, except at one hotel, is double glazed windows. Now most people associate these with colder climates but there use is still as valid in preventing solar gain as it is from insulating against the cold.

The insulation against noise is significant and would be beneficial in the cities also, so does anyone know where to buy or have had installed, double glazed windows in Thailand ? If not who will buy them if I start a business?

[jayjayjayjay]

I think it's a great idea. I am sick of my power bill 5,000 plus on a fairly modest 3 bedroom house. I think a lot could be done to improve overall electrical efficiency outside of light bulbs. Double glazing, partial evapourative cooling and improved aircon design and we should be able to live in relative 25 degree C comfort year round.

Good luck. Will be in the market one day, but not sure when.

Jay

[GuestHouse]

While I have no evidence to support this belief, other than an observation, I personally believe that double glazing, central heating and the hermetic sealing of homes is the cause of the huge increase in Asthma in the west.

I think in Thailand, shading and orientation of windows while allowing free movement of air is a sufficiently effective means of reducing solar gain through windows.

It should also be noted that the heat saving of double glazing is only that achieved by blocking the heat radiated from the outer sheet of glass. Light passing through the inner sheet of glass will still warm the house interior and will still heat that second sheet of glass.

Shading from direct sunlight gets rid of all these problems.

[Robski]

You'd get a good night sleep too if you diddn't have to put up with soi dogs brking all night.

[steveromagnino]

I think it's a great idea. I am sick of my power bill 5,000 plus on a fairly modest 3 bedroom house. I think a lot could be done to improve overall electrical efficiency outside of light bulbs. Double glazing, partial evapourative cooling and improved aircon design and we should be able to live in relative 25 degree C comfort year round.

Good luck. Will be in the market one day, but not sure when.

Jay

lights aren't why you are using 5,000b. The aircon unit is doing that.

solution: shade plus fan plus get used to a bit more heat. And cold showers. Double glazing is fairly pointless AFAICS for heat control except perhaps to hold in the artic temperatures in that some expats and Thais seem to love for reasons beyond me.

Decent design with overhangs, greenery and water areas outside all would be more sensible than double glazing as first steps. Even some of the super energy efficient homes i've seen featured here have't really done double glazing, as air flow through is one key in keeping temperature a bit lower without using aircon.

Incidentally, my own theory on asthma is carpet; the worst stuff for dust mite; and double glazing and similar just keeps the dust circulating inside. Once i left NZ my asthma cleared right up.

[jayjayjayjay]

I totally agree that the airconditioners are the culprits. I do wish I could sleep without one, that is my last great pleasure I bring with me from childhood specifically 24 degreesC or less and non-humid room huddled under a blanket. I don't mind about the rest of the day. How to manage this in Thailand without an airconditioner?

Shading is great, plenty of shubbery etc, both I have volumes of in my Chiangmai house. My home office requires a "clean room" for dust and staff satifaction(believe me, I have tried without this numerous times with mutiny every time). How to run an office, keep dust out of the computers, printers and networking.

I figure I would use about 1500 baht per months on my 8 hours of sleep with the airconditioner.

[astral]

A few years ago I hunted in vain for double glazing.

It does exist, as the local Samivet Hospital has it installed.

Before you have windows fitted ask to see examples of the person's work.

My windows look fine, but close examination shows gaps I could drive a lorry through

and hence heat, wind and sound have easy access. Plus a few bugs.

PS I am moving this to the Housing section where there is more expertese.

[ZZZ]

If you want to save on electricity and still use aircon you should put the aircon in dehumidifier mode, usually displayed as a water drop on the remote.

In this mode the temperature will only drop a degree or two but the humidity will drop 10-20%. This humidity drop feels like a big drop in temperature and the power consumption is just a fraction compared to cooling mode.

[lingling]

lights aren't why you are using 5,000b. The aircon unit is doing that.

Aircon is the #1 culprit, the direct water heaters are #2. But insulating and using double glazed windows is the right thing to do. Chownah posted some calculations on possible savings from proper insulation a little while ago. Maybe someone can find that post and link to it...

Anyway, back to the topic. There are a lot of suppliers of double glazed windows with pvc or aluminium frames. They are all way overpriced though, and charge per square meter of window area. The prices in TH are about 10x the chinese price for the same thing. (ranging from B2800 to B5500 in the quotes I got)

Many or most of the companies that supply double glazed windows are farang run, to mention a few there are wintek, arc, IJO fiber, winmaster, gehause, duro, thyssen, day place, lg, sun paradise.

I have contact details for all of the above, so if a moderator approves publishing them here then I can post the details here. (won't bother to post it without a moderator OK though - too much typing if it just gets deleted right after I post)

[Moonfruit]

Hi Dave,

try contacting Noah at www.duro-products.com

They manufacture uPVC double glazing here in Thailand.

Its certainly not cheap, but they do make a good product. They are located out at Latkrabang.

Regards

[palm]

Best thing I ever did was replace my new condo's windows and balcony doors with good quality double-glazed ones.

Now I can't hear dogs bark outside at 3am, or get water leaks during storms, and the rooms stay cooler for longer after the aircon is switched off.

Cost was about 250,000 baht. Asia and Aluminium and Glass Co. Ltd.

[CBDK]

Hi!

Double glazing is not bad and available in many dimensions. I recommend 4,4,4mm (4mm glass, 4mm space, 4mm glass) and it's available for sure via THai German Glass here in Thailand among many other suppliers, but they are the big guys! Be aware though: Normal framing can not carry double glazing so you need to upgrade all your frames as well.

:-)

CBDK

[esprit]

Thanks guys for all your usefull responses. I will now do a bit more researching. Definitely Upvc will be a requirement to minimise thermal conductance in the frames but a minimum air gap of 25mm is required for effective noise reduction.

[wpcoe]

... a minimum air gap of 25mm is required for effective noise reduction.

You mean a space of one inch between the window panes is needed? I had no idea that so much space would be necessary.

Are most double-glazed windows in Thailand vacuum sealed, i.e. no air between the inner and outer panes, or are they simply two panes of glass separated by air?

[chiang mai]

The leaders in double glazing technology appears to be Thai Asahi glass and they are located in either Samut Prakan or down Chonburi way, not sure. I have used their products to ease heat radiation and they works well. Beware of getting double glazed units using Thai Asahi glass from secondary manufacturers since those people typically mold two sections of glass together and don't fill the void with gas not put the correct spacers in. Colour of the glass is also important when dealing with heat and they tell me that green is the optimal colour.

[Naam]

Thanks guys for all your usefull responses. I will now do a bit more researching. Definitely Upvc will be a requirement to minimise thermal conductance in the frames but a minimum air gap of 25mm is required for effective noise reduction.

Dave,

there is no double pane glass with that much gap on the market.

[reasonstobecheerful]

Thanks guys for all your usefull responses. I will now do a bit more researching. Definitely Upvc will be a requirement to minimise thermal conductance in the frames but a minimum air gap of 25mm is required for effective noise reduction.

Dave,

there is no double pane glass with that much gap on the market.

There is no doubt that a wider gap, and I've seen them several inches in London, is better for noise. Smaller tends to be better for thermal, and they fill it with a heavy gas to lessen convection INSIDE the gap.

I reckon you will be thinking in terms of doubling a frame rather than getting a double frame, though one inch gap frames may exist.

In CM I am told DG only orderable from BKK....if anyone knows better I'd love to know please.

[elkangorito]

Thanks guys for all your usefull responses. I will now do a bit more researching. Definitely Upvc will be a requirement to minimise thermal conductance in the frames but a minimum air gap of 25mm is required for effective noise reduction.

I take it that the 'U' in Upvc stands for Ultra Violet. If so, this has nothing to do with heat but more to do with the life of the product exposed to sunlight. Heat can be filtered by using Infra Red filtering on the glazing.

[sinom]

Thanks guys for all your usefull responses. I will now do a bit more researching. Definitely Upvc will be a requirement to minimise thermal conductance in the frames but a minimum air gap of 25mm is required for effective noise reduction.

I take it that the 'U' in Upvc stands for Ultra Violet. If so, this has nothing to do with heat but more to do with the life of the product exposed to sunlight. Heat can be filtered by using Infra Red filtering on the glazing.

I've recently built a large south facing house with a lot of south facing double "patio" style doors. I was concerned mainly about solar gain. I ended up choosing a two pane system with a reflective film applied betwen the two panes. This is not eactly true double glazing in the normal sense but I believe it does assist in reflecting the heat out. (very difficult to prove of course). Frames are UPVC, with the company stating they had modified their European UPVC product to meet the harsher environment in Thailand.

I also used laterite blocks to produce a cavity wall system to try to keep it cooler.

Cost differential w.r.t. aluminium or good harwood frames for the windows was minimal.

[jumbo]

Wouldn't the film help that we use in the cars?? Seems cheaper to me to have it done and

it should give the same good results as in a car.......or am I overlooking something??

J

[sinom]

Wouldn't the film help that we use in the cars?? Seems cheaper to me to have it done and

it should give the same good results as in a car.......or am I overlooking something??

J

Nope ..... your spot on, it's the same kind of film but I like the idea of between the two panes for longevity ????? (sales bull?)

[elkangorito]

Wouldn't the film help that we use in the cars?? Seems cheaper to me to have it done and

it should give the same good results as in a car.......or am I overlooking something??

J

Some of the cheaper varieties of window tinting are just basically a dark film with little light filtering properties. You need to see a statement somewhere in the specifications of the film that relates to Infrared filtering (infrared rays are the heat producing rays). UV filtering is more about reducing the effect of the suns rays on people & product (cancer, life expectancy respectively). Dark tints are not necessarily better than light coloured tints. My sister had her car windows tinted with an expensive product. It is very light coloured (not dark at all) & it is very effective at filtering infrared rays. It could be tested by rolling down a window half way &, on a hot day, you could notice the difference in heat affect upon skin exposed to direct sunlight & skin behind the tinting.

[WINDOWMAN]

Over the years I have looked around at developments from middle to high cost for both houses and condos. The one thing I still have not seen, except at one hotel, is double glazed windows. Now most people associate these with colder climates but there use is still as valid in preventing solar gain as it is from insulating against the cold.

The insulation against noise is significant and would be beneficial in the cities also, so does anyone know where to buy or have had installed, double glazed windows in Thailand ? If not who will buy them if I start a business?

[WINDOWMAN]

My webbrowser directed me to this forum and your observations about pvc windows in Thailand. I've worked for nearly 25 years in the window industry in the uk and now in France, and I'm investigating the possibility of working in Thailand. From reading the various replies it would seem that there is some potential for developing and providing quality upvc and aluminium window systems. So I've joined joined thaivisa.com and i'm searching the net and business directories to find out more about the window trade in Thailand. Initially i would like to find work with an established glazing manufacturer or installer, say for 1 - 2 months. Any advice about how i should go about this ? Windows are not new to me, but Thailand is, have just made 3 trips so far for holiday.

[gjones]

This company sells upvc windows and solar power units http://www.powergreenalliance.com/

[chownah]

Wouldn't the film help that we use in the cars?? Seems cheaper to me to have it done and

it should give the same good results as in a car.......or am I overlooking something??

J

Some of the cheaper varieties of window tinting are just basically a dark film with little light filtering properties. You need to see a statement somewhere in the specifications of the film that relates to Infrared filtering (infrared rays are the heat producing rays). UV filtering is more about reducing the effect of the suns rays on people & product (cancer, life expectancy respectively). Dark tints are not necessarily better than light coloured tints. My sister had her car windows tinted with an expensive product. It is very light coloured (not dark at all) & it is very effective at filtering infrared rays. It could be tested by rolling down a window half way &, on a hot day, you could notice the difference in heat affect upon skin exposed to direct sunlight & skin behind the tinting.

I would like to extend Elkangorito's mention of infrared rays. About 53% of the sun's light is infrared. You can not see infrared light and when it strikes most surfaces it is converted into heat. If you keep infrared rays from entering a room or car then you will have eliminated about half of the sun's ability to heat up the room or car interior. The sun's light also contains about 43% visible light (all the colors we see) and about 4% ultra-violet light. These rays when striking a black surface will heat the surface just like infrared will so it should be understood that these rays cause heat too. The advantage of blocking out the infrared is that you can eliminate 50% of the heat WITHOUT ANY DIFFERENCE IN VISIBILITY at least in theory....if you tried to block out 50% of the heat by blocking visible light you would have to block out ALL of the visible light and then your window would really more rightly be called a "wall".

Chownah

[Lickey]

Noise is my biggest problem in the village, howling dogs, markets using speaker vans or loudspeakers, 'EVERYTHING 9 BAHT' this can go on from 6 in the morning till 2 in the afternoon some days, weddings with overloud distorted music, the local cinema, open air of course till 1am some nights, and earplugs are uncomfortable after a time, I wonder if these noisy people realise what damage they are doing to their hearing and especially young children whoes hearing is very keen!!

Sorry about that, had to get it of my chest!!

Missus and i are haveing a new salon wiith living acc on 1st floor and open plan, 2nd floor, just a roof over an open space, metre high wall round with plants and water feature ect, hopefully the prevailing breeze will keep this cool, ok, living acc, found some double glazed windows WITH mossie nets in Global House in Udon Thani, looks like a 1/2 airgap,slighty tinted, sliding frame, and sliding mossie nets, Im not sure of the price but i told the agent these have to be fitted, also after walls are plastered, he will cover with a 13mm thick sound absorbing material then cover this with gyproc and paint over, so im really looking forward to my mossie and sound-proofed new home, hope this helps and gives you some ideas, Lickey..

[Lucifer]

You could try secondry glazing. A much cheaper alternative.

Also a couple of pointers from Dubai where it's really hot. They have 'chimney' that sucks out the hot air from the ceiling.

They've been using these for hundreds of years. No running costs, and fairly easy to install.

The glass used in Dubai is gold tinted. Not done any research. It maybe that the rich Arabs like the colour, or that thats the optimum colour.

[ToyotaVigoThailand]

What people never consider is that you must stop the sun before it reaches your windows, anything else is useless...

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, ToyotaVigoThailand said:

What people never consider is that you must stop the sun before it reaches your windows, anything else is useless...

 

You reckon..?   ????........................????