Disappearing democracy

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, scorecard said:

 

"We almost had a chance at real democracy  with citizens direct and participatory involvement."

 

Is that your first attempt at mother of all joke for 2019...

 

 

Fan of facism will treat democracy as a joke. 

[klauskunkel]

6 hours ago, rooster59 said:

“The MRT wasn’t involved in the monument’s removal and doesn’t know where it is,” says MRT Governor Kapapong Sirikantaramas,

"We asked every single train, even the ones in maintenance..."

[ravip]

Democracy is a farce.  The Sky Train is a reality. Why have useless symbols occupying valuable space?

Anyone know of any place where this Democracy exist? 

(Of course, this is a good enough reason to bash Thailand )

[HalfLight]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

 

But what's badly needed beforehand is much better education regarding civil society, the value of working towards a civil society, the real meaning of democracy and how to built it and protect it and how voting should take place so it's free and fair, and the importance of free and fair and fully understand that political parties should have a serious specific manifesto which has good value and clearly aims to develop the country and develop better education and opportunities and build better acceptance of 'the rule of law' and equal justice for all.

 

I'm afraid until there's big and visible progress on all of the above then no progress, confusion and corruption in politics and vote buying will continue as is.  Sad.

 

 

What you say seems about right, malodorous though it is. Asking one of the perishers to pay attention to any of the things you list, is like asking the mad golfer to stop cheating on his handicap, it's just not in the mindset. But you are right in this sense though; if the factors which resulted on the pile of poop in the corner today don't change, then there'll be another pile of poop in the corner every day until they do. No point complaining that the place smells of poop, someone will have to get off their bottoms and change things.

 

As someone wiser than me and a lot smarter than the mad golfer said: If you always do what you've always done, then you'll always get what you've always got. If you want something different, then you have to make a change. No point continuing to do favours for your mates after it becomes common knowledge that's what you've been doing for years, all you're doing is pooping in your own corner. No point being paranoid and deleting stuff you don't like just because you don't like it, change your ways while you still have a job, which might not be as long as you think it will be.

 

So to speak.

 

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, ravip said:

Democracy is a farce.  The Sky Train is a reality. Why have useless symbols occupying valuable space?

Anyone know of any place where this Democracy exist? 

(Of course, this is a good enough reason to bash Thailand )

Have a nice cup of tea,a Bex and a good lie down-and repeat after me "I can't give up my day job..I just can't.."

[ravip]

10 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Have a nice cup of tea,a Bex and a good lie down-and repeat after me "I can't give up my day job..I just can't.."

Please come out with your hidden Democracies. Don't be selfish,  let the world know. 

(I assume you are a true Democrat )

Edited January 5, 2019 by ravip

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, ravip said:

Please come out with your hidden Democracies. Don't be selfish,  let the world know. 

Whereas you are sitting in a world run by the GP boot and lovin' it?

 

Curious how these military men all look like superannuated South Vietnamese generals from 1965-even the sun glasses and liberal splatterings of fruit salad are just the same..

 

To change a line from JP Morgan-"If I have to explain democracy to you-then you probably wouldn't understand it"

Edited January 5, 2019 by Odysseus123

[HalfLight]

1 hour ago, jak2002003 said:

What, like the democracy we have in the UK and America?  Think we are just as much mess with the UK government ruining our economy and industry coming out of Europe, and the dumb raciest bully boy Trump in America?  We only have 2 parties to choose from and they are both basically identical apart from their names.  The don't care about people, only power and money and most of the politicians are not in the real world are delusional, full of self importance and corruption... so not much different to here.

 

 

 

I could take the point more seriously if you could tell me when the last coup détat by the army took place in UK or USA.

 

 

 

[HalfLight]

17 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Curious how these military men all look like superannuated South Vietnamese generals from 1965-even the sun glasses and liberal splatterings of fruit salad are just the same..

 

The sunglasses and fruit salad are attempts to show status. Children do it, and that applies to the children in Vietnam who were just playing at being generals with the encouragement of the Americans.

 

Status means you're a more attractive mate (evolutionarily speaking), so (they assume) you get laid more often if you have sunglasses and fruit salad. It's a sad commentary on humankind that the silver stripe up the back of a gorilla serves the same purpose - rank and status. Even the mad golfer's handicap (the one he cheats on) is a status of sorts. It's why humankind is competitive. It's all about sowing oats. Sad really.

 

Hey ho...

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by HalfLight

[scorecard]

42 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Fan of facism will treat democracy as a joke. 

 

"Fan of fascism..."

 

My OP:  

2 hours ago, scorecard said:

 

"But what's badly needed beforehand is much better education regarding civil society, the value of working towards a civil society, the real meaning of democracy and how to built it and protect it and how voting should take place so it's free and fair, and the importance of free and fair and fully understand that political parties should have a serious specific manifesto which has good value and clearly aims to develop the country and develop better education and opportunities and build better acceptance of 'the rule of law' and equal justice for all.

 

I'm afraid until there's big and visible progress on all of the above then no progress, confusion and corruption in politics and vote buying will continue as is.  Sad."

 

So my post portrays fascism does it el?

 

You should check the drafts the others prepare for you before you post (if you can), as in this instance totally wrong labels. 

 

[Odysseus123]

5 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

 

I could take the point more seriously if you could tell me when the last coup détat by the army took place in UK or USA.

 

 

 

A curious factoid-it was Pride's Purge in 1648,I believe.

 

The pesky New Model Army under Oliver Cromwell.

[HalfLight]

1 minute ago, Odysseus123 said:

A curious factoid-it was Pride's Purge in 1648,I believe.

 

The pesky New Model Army under Oliver Cromwell.

Long enough in the past to be irrelevant now. Which is exactly what I thought. It's a common enough conversational strategy; appeal to an irrelevant authority and pretend it means something. The OP should be ashamed but won't be.

 

 

 

[Odysseus123]

9 minutes ago, HalfLight said:

Long enough in the past to be irrelevant now. Which is exactly what I thought. It's a common enough conversational strategy; appeal to an irrelevant authority and pretend it means something. The OP should be ashamed but won't be.

 

 

 

Yes-a well used strategy of 'deflection' and is a common tactic on these forums..

 

Hang on for a moment because I want to recall Colonel Rainsborough's remarks made at the church at Putney in 1648.These words passed straight on to Puritan North America and are a foundation block of that democracy.. 

 

Here it is in ringing words that have sounded down the centuries..

 

"For really I think that the poorest hee that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest hee; and therefore truly, Sr, I think itt clear, that every Man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own Consent to put himself under that Government; and I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put Himself under."

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by Odysseus123

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, scorecard said:

I didn't quote UK and US as examples, you did.

 

Students can be taught, with good details what the concepts are etc., and this is my point. 

 

I understand.  But looking at democracy in the West, it does not seem to work very well.  No communism is good in theory, but always ends up with corrupt evil leaders.

 

Someone should invent a mix between to 2, might work better.  

[HalfLight]

23 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

Yes-a well used strategy of 'deflection' and is a common tactic on these forums..

 

Hang on for a moment because I want to recall Colonel Rainsborough's remarks made at the church at Putney in 1648.These words passed straight on to Puritan North America and are a foundation block of that democracy.. 

 

Here it is in ringing words that have sounded down the centuries..

 

"For really I think that the poorest hee that is in England hath a life to live, as the greatest hee; and therefore truly, Sr, I think itt clear, that every Man that is to live under a Government ought first by his own Consent to put himself under that Government; and I do think that the poorest man in England is not at all bound in a strict sense to that Government that he hath not had a voice to put Himself under."

 

 

 

Tingle up the back stuff is it not? Never a truer word spoken. But try to get Thais to participate in something that doesn't earn them a shilling, and the primitive beggars don't want to know.

 

It's a problem, and one that has to be solved if they're ever to have the right to stand up and call themselves real people. Which will likely happen about the same time they discover they have no need for the other yoke. And whan *that* happens, watch the shades and fruit salad beggars run. Nothing quite like a good revolution for getting changes made.

 

 

 

Edited January 5, 2019 by HalfLight

[cmsally]

To say that the monument was moved to make way for the BTS is simply not true; as that already happened in 2016

 

Constitution monument pushed aside for rail line.

 

It was in the way in 2016, and was moved 100m to a new site. This time it seems no one knows where a ........ huge concrete monument disappeared to.

[PatOngo]

35 minutes ago, ZeVonderBearz said:

A wall around the entire island? They can get the Aborigines to fund and build it. They are squatting on the European man's land after all. 

Kiwi's would still find a way in.

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and the replies have been removed. 

 

Posts and the replies containing disallowed references to the government have been removed. 

 

A post that contained comments that could be of a dangerous nature has been removed. 

[ratcatcher]

5 hours ago, monkfish said:

The Ram Intra to Chaeng Wattana overpass which is still under construction as in the Photo?

Thank you, I stand corrected. Perhaps someone can confirm that the elevated concrete structure shown in this photo

is indeed the new "Green Line" route passing through Mo Chit to Lam Lukka.

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, HalfLight said:

 

I could take the point more seriously if you could tell me when the last coup détat by the army took place in UK or USA.

 

 

 

They found it less messy to fund and arrange multiple coups and wars elsewhere, including Thailand, in order to support their ideology and place in the world order.

[natway09]

Believing in democracy is like believing in the tooth fairy

[zzaa09]

8 hours ago, Father Fintan Stack said:

Crushed under the jackboot of fascism.

Traditionally referred to something else among the loyal and indifferent...

[Dap]

8 hours ago, darksidedog said:

Removing symbols of democracy in the wee dark hours hoping no one will notice is a disgraceful action. I am mightily surprised that none of the campaigning parties is holding actions such as this, and the earlier disappearing 1932 plaque up to the light and proclaiming the obvious. The Junta does not like, want, or seem willing to permit Thailand to have democracy in the future, and obviously wishes to remove all trace of its existence in the past. This is clear evidence of what Prayut and friends represent.

AN few seem to realize the the significance of these covert midnight losses. Shameful!

[zzaa09]

26 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

They found it less messy to fund and arrange multiple coups and wars elsewhere, including Thailand, in order to support their ideology and place in the world order.

Extended empire. 

The most destructive, historically.

[robblok]

3 hours ago, Eric Loh said:

Fan of facism will treat democracy as a joke. 

Not really but you have to look at Balpoints his post a great one.

 

Democracy in Thailand = Kleptocracy.. not true democracy anyone calling it a democracy is bias

 

So the only difference between junta rule and Kleptocracy is that they can vote the thieves out. For the Thais the only difference comes from those who are allowed to feed from the corruption money. Its not based on political vision its based on where they think they have the most chance to get a seat at the table dining of corruption.

 

People who think the Thais should rise up.. why.. to place other crooks in power who also will steal and do nothing but things for their own benefit.

 

Until there is a viable non corrupt alternative this will go on and on until money is taken out of the politics (real attack on corruption). Until that day nothing will change just the faces who steal be they elected or come in by gun. The party not in power (whoever they are) will do their best to get back in power for their tun at the feeding through and that includes violence. So until there is no more money at stake this will go on.

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Believing in democracy is like believing in the tooth fairy

Some day i think the same, but to be able to dream of a fair society is one of the things that make humans better than animals.

[StreetCowboy]

3 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Some day i think the same, but to be able to dream of a fair society is one of the things that make humans better than animals.

The worst thing about democracy is its alternatives.

[DrTuner]

11 minutes ago, natway09 said:

Believing in democracy is like believing in the tooth fairy

That's true, it's not a matter of faith but of vigilance and eternal effort. Worth it.

[Monkeyrobot]

Don’t they do the same in the US now.? The politically correct having the way removing statues from the past history. 

[zzaa09]

6 hours ago, ballpoint said:

But, is Thailand any harsher than 1973, or 1976, or 1992, or 2010?  Government wise, today and 30 years ago aren't so different.  Back then the unelected Prem was in charge.  When elections were held, in 1989, a corrupt government was installed, which was removed by a coup in 1991, followed by an appointed civilian administration, (which, ironically was arguably the best and fairest the country has ever had). When elections were held, a corrupt government was installed, followed by a number of others, the last of which was removed by a coup in 2006, followed by an appointed administration, followed by corrupt governments, followed by a coup, followed by a self appointed administration... 

 

Around it goes.  Chatichai Choonhaven was firmly on the military side in the '70s, overthrown by a coup in the '90s, his party then sided with Suchinda Kraprayoon, the coup maker.  Chamlong Srimuang was also firmly on the military side in the '70s, became the main coup opponent in the '90s.  Thaksin Shinawatra began politics allied to Chamlong in the '90s, formed a coalition with the coup supporting parties in the '00s before absorbing most of them into his own party.  Pallop Pinmanee was a key figure in a number of coups, later joined the PAD fighting against Thaksin, left them because they wouldn't support his violent methods and joined the UDD, fighting for Thaksin.  Ended up as an advisor to the Yingluck Shinawatra government.  Sonthi Boonyaratglin lead a coup overthrowing Thaksin in 2006, formed a political party and joined Thaksin's coalition in 2011.  All the starry eyed talk on here about good and bad governments and ideologies in Thailand is hogwash.  Elected / non-elected, they're all trying to wring as much out of the country as they can while their noses are in the trough, and will do all it takes to get their noses in that position.

 

If talking about life in general however, then sadly the whole world is a much harsher place than it was 30 years ago.

Fairly stated.

Quite admirable to use examples of contemporary note - and all true of an historic content.

 

Yet, we could easily return further and examine the era of instigation that brought on the renewed influence of the familiar mix of military/Ammat associations - which was the brief period of the late 1950s/early 1960s, where all has stood steadfast since. 

 

Decades of power struggles have shifted little. 

The players have changed here and there, yet the theatre remains the same.