BREAKING NEWS Thai immigration reveals new requirements for retirement, marriage extensions (visas)

[jacko45k]

3 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Regarding the 800k 3 months in the bank for retirees...can that pool of money be re-used yearly if a person is using other funds for surviving, or does the entire amount have to be wired in the next year freshly ?

Yes it can.

No requirement to show where it came from, nor it being used and refreshed.

[Darrren]

On 6 January 2019 at 9:47 AM, JLCrab said:

At this point I would presume the word "transfer" indicates an international transaction and not from domestic KrungThai Bank to domestic Kasikorn bank

No. transfer would mean an international transfer, they like to see the origin of the funds (not Thai/Baht) Transfers between Thai banks would not be accepted.  

[ocddave]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

400K two mo before applying every year for family/marriage based.  Two months the first time for retirement-based, and 3 months for each subsequent extension.

 

But some offices are demanding the married/family applicants leave the money in the bank during the "review" period - which is usually one month, but may be more (per a recent report from Chang Wattana).  So, best not to count on using that money for 3 months or more, if applying based on marriage.

No need to spend it, it will stay there and grow from now on, I want to bring it up to about 1 Million Baht, then let it sit just in case the requirements change in the future.

[JDGRUEN]

For those worried about the word "pension" and transferring money from a pension account, etc. Please take note - to the best of my knowledge, a non immigrant O visa to be used as a start to get an Extension of Stay based on 'Retirement' - is not confined to the classic Western definition of 'Retirement' or 'Pension'.  The One Year Extension of Stay based on an O Visa to be used for 'Retirement' is in actuality an Extension for those people who are age 50 years and over.  One does not have to be actually retired and on a pension in the Western Definition.  One can be actively employed, on sabitical, living on a trust fund or just aged 50 and wealthy enough to support themselves.  The monthly Income does not have to come from a pension. The money could be from monthly distrubtions of personal investments, dividend income, monthly sale of stock certificates or practically anything else.  A person under an Extension of Stay based on an O Visa granted for being age 50 years and over does not have to show pension funds transferred to your Thai Bank account. The money just has to be transferred to your Thai bank account from a souce outside Thailand - income from abroad 

Edited January 7, 2019 by JDGRUEN
Clarification - spelling

[ocddave]

2 hours ago, KhunFred said:

I will GLADLY  pay a visa service 3500 baht to have certainty. That is a bargain.

I'd rather see corruption stamped out with an iron-fist, then get back to a set of rules that everyone follows...or else.

[ubonjoe]

57 minutes ago, elgenon said:

Ubon Joe: if you have 800,000 in bank would you have to show you are living off that and it is being replenished?

 

There is no written requirement to do that. Some office expect some activity in the account to prove you are living on it. But having another account showing money going in and out would overcome that requirement,

[DPKANKAN]

3 hours ago, zydeco said:

If the Bank Statement/Letter is now to replace the Embassy Letter, will this new Bank Letter be something we can acquire, say, a day or two before going into Chaeng Wattana for the new extension? As I understand, the current rule requires a bank letter the day of the extension. That will make for a very long day at Chaeng Wattana, with lines not only at Immigration but at the Bangkok Bank outlet, too.

That is for the seasoned money method. If you are showing an average monthly record it is different. Although, as I have said before, it only shows what has happened and not what is definitely going to happen so it is still a half-baked method!!

[JDGRUEN]

Question for a friend married to a Thai lady (not me - I am not married).

 

My Question:  When proving monthly income of 40,000 Baht under an O visa Extension of Stay based on Marriage... What are the allowed sources of income?

1 - If the couple has a small business, he works for this family business - he has a Work Permit and files income tax reports and pays taxes.

Can this income be used to be included in meeting the 40,000 monthly income?

 

And/Or... the Thai Wife has an independent job - can her salary be used to be included in meeting the 40,000 baht monthly income requirement based on Marriage?

 

Thank you in advance.

[elviajero]

4 hours ago, freedomnow said:

Regarding the 800k 3 months in the bank for retirees...can that pool of money be re-used yearly if a person is using other funds for surviving, or does the entire amount have to be wired in the next year freshly ?

1 hour ago, elgenon said:

Ubon Joe: if you have 800,000 in bank would you have to show you are living off that and it is being replenished?

If you don't touch the money in your account immigration sometimes ask for additional proof of the funds you are using to live on.

 

[skatewash]

1 hour ago, elgenon said:

Ubon Joe: if you have 800,000 in bank would you have to show you are living off that and it is being replenished?

 

No, that's not a requirement of using the 800,000 in the bank.  However, they can ask you how you support yourself if it looks like the 800,000 is never touched.  Actually, they can ask how you support yourself whether or not the 800,000 is touched or not.  There are many good answers to that question.  A bad answer would be that you work in Thailand ????

[007 RED]

17 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Red, in your prior summary of this in the prior thread, I don't believe there was any use of the term "average" in any of the monthly income summary details. And yet, that term appears in the ThaiVisa summary that's the start of this new thread.

 

So now with all this water under the bridge, might I ask, does your wife see the Thai version of the term "average" in any of the monthly income sections of the Thai language document, or that term is in fact not used there?

 

Sorry for the delay in coming back, but I'm not one of those who's life revolves 24x7 around TV.  Life is far to short to spend so much time 'glued' to a computer screen.

 

Both my wife, and her friend, confirm that the word "average" does not appear in the Thai document.  If they were to have used the word "average" they (TI) would have needed to clarify if it was an average of 12 deposits per year or an average of 65,000 Baht per month.  This they have not done.

 

As with many Thai words they can they can sometimes have several different English meanings, as is the case that the original post which used the word "pension".  The Thai words used in the document can in fact also mean pension, income, salary, wages, investments or revenue.  Hence the reason why UJ has had to clarify several times to ally members fears that the new criteria only covers pension income.

 

It will be interesting to see the English translated version of the document which the OP and UJ promised should be available today.  That said, it must be borne in mind that the TV translation is still only an unofficial translation and that TI will be working to the Thai text which they no doubt will interpret in their own sweet way.

[mogandave]

They have but you can grant them access


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And how do they get access to to your accounts?

What, do you think every government desktop has access to everyone’s information like in the movies?

What, you volunteer all your usernames and passwords?

I believe it can be done, but not without a lot of front end work and funding.

Then assuming they take at least twice as long, and more likely 5 times as long to complete the application what would you think would happen to the cost of the letter?

In any event, if looks like most everyone that actually qualified before, will continue to qualify.

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

My Question:  When proving monthly income of 40,000 Baht under an O visa Extension of Stay based on Marriage... What are the allowed sources of income?

1 - If the couple has a small business, he works for this family business - he has a Work Permit and files income tax reports and pays taxes.

Can this income be used to be included in meeting the 40,000 monthly income?

Income from working can be used to meet the income requirement by a income tax return.

6 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

And/Or... the Thai Wife has an independent job - can her salary be used to be included in meeting the 40,000 baht monthly income requirement based on Marriage?

No it cannot be used. It has to be the husbands income.

[roger101]

My pensions are paid into my UK Bank (Nationwide) and I use Transferwise to bring the money here every month. So I take it that this would not be recognized by Immigration as a Foreign transfer so therefore would not be allowed. If I brought the money over say 4 times a tear would that be accepted (straight from Nationwide).

[David Walden]

21 minutes ago, Pattaya46 said:

Embassy Letters are still sufficient and provided by most embassies,

so clearly that policy did not change last year 

 

Edit: What may have change is that affidavits are no more accepted... maybe. 

 

1

It seems that Embassies providing letters confirming your income up to now have been accepted as fact by Thai Immigration.  Not so anymore (maybe) as there has been too much BS.  The only difference I see is that Thailand requires clear and unambiguous evidence and proof that what you say is absolutely true, as is required  There is no change, that's the way it is required and has been that way for years.  Only scammers have created new methods to get visas in Thailand.  If you have the money you don't need the letter from an Embassy.  Just show them the money as required.  Either use the 2 or 3 months of Bt800,000 in a Thai bank a/c (shown in a bank book) not something you can run up on Photoshop in 5 minutes, ( I can) Bt65,000 per month for at least 12 months again in a bank book or the combo method i.e. Aussie pension of Bt500,000 per year plus Bt 300,000 in a Thai bank book account (beg steal or borrow it).  Thailand only want hard copy of the evidence, that's is a real bank book is better. Quite simple just follow the instructions.  If your income statements are a mess you will have to do something about that so Thai Immigration staff can understand it all.  Nothing has changed.  It is/was still as required without the BS and maybe fewer scammers...don't hold your breath till things are fixed..

[wobalt]

And how do they get access to to your accounts?

What, do you think every government desktop has access to everyone’s information like in the movies?

What, you volunteer all your usernames and passwords?

I believe it can be done, but not without a lot of front end work and funding.

Then assuming they take at least twice as long, and more likely 5 times as long to complete the application what would you think would happen to the cost of the letter?

In any event, if looks like most everyone that actually qualified before, will continue to qualify.

In Germany Your social security number ? I can do it from my laptop


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[Sheryl]

11 minutes ago, roger101 said:

My pensions are paid into my UK Bank (Nationwide) and I use Transferwise to bring the money here every month. So I take it that this would not be recognized by Immigration as a Foreign transfer so therefore would not be allowed. If I brought the money over say 4 times a tear would that be accepted (straight from Nationwide).

I don't understand the second part of this (4 times a year). You either use the 400/800k method (in which case it doesn't matter how many transfers you make as long as the full amount is on deposit for 3 months before you apply for extension) or you use the income method.

 

If you use the income method, from the information given here,  immigration will accept a letter from your bank saying you transferred an average of the required amount from abroad  each month along with bank bank showing the monthly deposits.

 

For Transferwise the issue is whether your bank will recognize these as transfers fomo abroad and thus issue the needed letter.

 

I would start by getting a copy of the "Credit Advice" from the HQ of your bank for your most recent transfer (I am assuming all banks issue this) and see what it contains. If it shows the origin abroad (probably does) then showing these to your bank branch should suffice to get the needed wording in the letter.  I suggest you do this now so that you know ahead of time. If it has the needed info then arrange to get ta copy of the Credit Advice for each transfer.

 

Alternative would be to show statements from TW to your bank branch but that will likly be  problematic, and at a minimum involve being referred to their HQ, whereas they will readily recognize and understand  Credit Advices issued by their own Bank HQ.

 

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, 007 RED said:

It will be interesting to see the English translated version of the document which the OP and UJ promised should be available today. 

It has been received and will be posted shortly.

[sometimewoodworker]

24 minutes ago, JDGRUEN said:

1 - If the couple has a small business, he works for this family business - he has a Work Permit and files income tax reports and pays taxes.

Can this income be used to be included in meeting the 40,000 monthly income?

As UbonJoe has confirmed yes, here is part of an English language handout from Udon Thani immigration office. That details the Thai income requirement for that (and probably all) office

[wobalt]

In Germany Your social security number ? I can do it from my laptop


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Or call them, it is an insurance


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wobalt]

Or call them, it is an insurance


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

Maybe it’s the reason Germany still issue income letters


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[fforest1]

22 minutes ago, elviajero said:

If you don't touch the money in your account immigration sometimes ask for additional proof of the funds you are using to live on.

 

Ok I will just put 800,000 in the bank and and live in my 2,500 baht a month room while eating my 30 baht noodles while drinking my one baht a liter drinking water and keep receipts to show I can support myself....Living the dream.....

[nasa123]

17 minutes ago, David Walden said:

It seems that Embassies providing letters confirming your income up to now have been accepted as fact by Thai Immigration.  Not so anymore (maybe) as there has been too much BS.  The only difference I see is that Thailand requires clear and unambiguous evidence and proof that what you say is absolutely true, as is required  There is no change, that's the way it is required and has been that way for years.  Only scammers have created new methods to get visas in Thailand.  If you have the money you don't need the letter from an Embassy.  Just show them the money as required.  Either use the 2 or 3 months of Bt800,000 in a Thai bank a/c (shown in a bank book) not something you can run up on Photoshop in 5 minutes, ( I can) Bt65,000 per month for at least 12 months again in a bank book or the combo method i.e. Aussie pension of Bt500,000 per year plus Bt 300,000 in a Thai bank book account (beg steal or borrow it).  Thailand only want hard copy of the evidence, that's is a real bank book is better. Quite simple just follow the instructions.  If your income statements are a mess you will have to do something about that so Thai Immigration staff can understand it all.  Nothing has changed.  It is/was still as required without the BS and maybe fewer scammers...don't hold your breath till things are fixed..

But still in Phuket you can not open a bank account if you don’t have a B-visa whit work permit, a have a account BAT new peopel no. 

[OJAS]

25 minutes ago, roger101 said:

My pensions are paid into my UK Bank (Nationwide) and I use Transferwise to bring the money here every month. So I take it that this would not be recognized by Immigration as a Foreign transfer so therefore would not be allowed.

Depends on which Thai bank you hold your account here with. If Bangkok Bank (like mine is) it will be recorded as a foreign transfer in your passbook (coded FTT) since they are TransferWise's agency bank in Thailand. But rather less clear-cut in the case of other banks, it would appear.

[007 RED]

3 hours ago, OJAS said:

Just so that I am clear on the new documentary requirements without having to wade through this lengthy thread once again, these are:-

 

(1) Bank balance letter as per the seasoned 800k/400k method;

 

(2) Bank certificate confirming that each 40k/65k+ monthly transfer credited over the preceding 12 months originated from abroad;

 

(3) Passbook copies covering all transactions over the previous 12 months;

 

(4) In cases where the passbook has been overprinted over this period (thanks to faint updating machine ribbons), a separate bank statement listing all relevant transactions.

 

Correct, please? And, in the case of the monthly income method, will not Immigration accept docs obtained from your bank any time after the latest (12th) monthly transfer has been credited (your comment would appear to indicate that they might not)?
 

OJAS....   In the case of the 'Monthly Income Method':

 

(1) You will not be required to obtain a bank letter confirming your balance, that is only required if you use the 'Money In the Bank Method'.

 

(2) You will be required to obtain a letter from the bank confirming that there have been either 40K or 60K (depending upon your circumstances) monthly transfers to your account form an overseas source.

 

(3) TI can ask for sight of your bank book to validate that the transfers have taken place - they may ask for a copy.

 

(4)  if there has been a problem with printing in your passbook, as often happens, it may be wise to obtain a statement of the transactions from the bank and get the bank to 'stamp' it.

[onera1961]

47 minutes ago, roger101 said:

My pensions are paid into my UK Bank (Nationwide) and I use Transferwise to bring the money here every month. So I take it that this would not be recognized by Immigration as a Foreign transfer so therefore would not be allowed. If I brought the money over say 4 times a tear would that be accepted (straight from Nationwide).

No it is not going to be accepted. It's made clear by @007 RED that money must be brought every month. Find out from your bank if their internal coding (not what is displayed in your bank book) recognizes Transferwise transfer as an "International  transfer" or not. 

Edited January 7, 2019 by onera1961

[roger101]

1 minute ago, OJAS said:

Depends on which Thai bank you hold your account here with. If Bangkok Bank (like mine is) it will be recorded as a foreign transfer in your passbook (coded FTT) since they are TransferWise's agency bank in Thailand. But rather less clear-cut in the case of other banks, it would appear.

Thanks for that. I normally use my TMB Bank but I have an account with Bangkok Bank as well.

[ocddave]

10 minutes ago, fforest1 said:

Ok I will just put 800,000 in the bank and and live in my 2,500 baht a month room while eating my 30 baht noodles while drinking my one baht a liter drinking water and keep receipts to show I can support myself....Living the dream.....

LOL........I put in a little over 500K, like I said, I'll probably slowly increase it to 1 Million baht over time, but I was already sending my wife 70K via Transferwise every month before this Income Letter fiasco. So now I am just sending the money to my own SCB account, then making a local transfer from SCB to SCB to her account. I'll add a little extra each month to top off the 500K until it reaches the 1 Million I want in there. The only thing I don't like is the letter and bankbook having to be dated the day of trip to the Immigration Office, usually its better to get to Immigration first thing, this new fiasco will make that an almost all day affair.....UGH!!!

[sambum]

3 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Some embassies' decisions not to change their policies to meet Thailand's moving goalposts, you mean?  The wording on our embassy-letters has been very clear for years.

 

This change will be a difficult adjustment for many who had the required gross-income to qualify using the letter. 

 

We shall see how the other embassy-letters fare - I doubt all will make the cut, as many are not substantially different than the UK or AU/USA systems.

Perhaps the other Embassies are just carrying on "as normal" without actually "verifying" the income as requested by TI?

 

Perhaps they are taking the stance that their citizens are responsible honest people who have provided them with proof of their income by supplying them with copies of Bank Statements showing regular Pension/other payments  and/or signed and dated copies of rental agreements etc?

 

Perhaps this is something that was discussed as far back as May last year, and (to my knowledge) no other Embassy has been pushed/reminded by TI of the "verification" issue?

 

Perhaps the British Embassy (followed by the others that you mention) have "spat the dummy out" as basically TI are saying that the Embassy shouldn't believe what their citizens are telling them! 

 

 

Edited January 7, 2019 by sambum

[Vacuum]

5 minutes ago, ocddave said:

now I am just sending the money to my own SCB account, then making a local transfer from SCB to SCB to her accoun

Why do you transfer the money to her account?