SURVEY: Build the Wall -- Yes or No?

[Shaunduhpostman]

Being from California, it's a majority Spanish speaking state, there has always, since the European conquest of the New World been a sizeable amount if not a majority of Spanish speaking people in the region. Perhaps to someone from the midwest or the northeast or even the south it seems like the sky is falling when someone like Trump points to the way things are and the way they always have been as tho it were some invasion crisis. Whether or not there are illegals has little to do with most people's life or quality of life anyway, why is it suddenly such a huge problem?  To me, having grown up in mixed latino, anglo, black and asian areas of Los Angeles, I rather prefer latinos to Anglos, generally speaking. Less aggressive, more friendly, less wound up, up tight, minding everyone's business and less judgemental, better food, better appreciation of music and culture, better appreciation of workers rights and struggles as opposed to lap dog Anglos and their often, "I got mine! What's wrong with you? Get a job!" Attitude. If you have latino friends' or other nice and beneficial people in your life, people freaking out about illegal immigration might want to consider, those people you like may have parents who came over as illegals. Whether anglos like Trump  from the rest of the US like it or not, latin america is part of the history and the present in a big way and its a good thing. What I don't like about the focus on the problem, is that it is seen as something destroying the country. If that were true, then why has over a century of illegal migrants from latin america not destroyed the country? If people are worried about invasions of people from other countries then they ought to be more up in arms about international trade agreements like the Trans Pacific Partnership which greatly weaken countries' ability to make decisions for themselves. I find it very ironic that While Trump wants a wall, his support for globalist sponsered "border erasure" in the name of free trade tears the very same wall right back down potentially.

[Hanuman2547]

I thought that Mexico was paying for the Wall to be built?  At least that's what Mr. Trump said was going to happen when he was campaigning for the Presidency.

[Longcut]

How many non-U.S. citizens are voting in this pole and how many U.S. citizens don't give a damn what other people think? ????

Edited January 13, 2019 by Longcut

[Chippy151]

5 minutes ago, Longcut said:

How many non-U.S. citizens are voting in this pole?????

The U.S. tends to get involved in the affairs of almost every other country on the planet.

That gives non-U.S. citizens the right to vote in a harmless, irrelevant poll.

[stud858]

I'm from Australia where the land has a wall of ocean around it. If it didn't I'm guessing things would be a lot different.

At least make a movie about building a wall first and see how that goes?

[sirineou]

12 minutes ago, Longcut said:

How many non-U.S. citizens are voting in this pole and how many U.S. citizens don't give a damn what other people think? ????

IMO that's not fair.

I vote my opinion in non US issues like Brexit, as I am sure many other Americans do. Why shouldn't they also have the same right?  and why shouldn't we care what they think.

I think one of the major reasons I oppose a wall is because of the optics and the damage it would cause to the already damaged american reputation. It will make it difficult for us to take the high road in other situations.

   If we don't want illegal aliens in the US the answer is simple, legal, acceptable to anyone in the world, and to any reasonable mind. 

  Simply enforce labor laws, spend 1 billion dollars and monitor every business employment records.  If it can be done with taxes and by IRS it can be done by the Labor dept . Fine those who hire illegals making it unprofitable to do so. 

How many illegals do you think would come here if there was no work?

 

[Sheryl]

My understanding is that Congress has approved funds for a wall or barrier - just not the huge amount being demanded by the Administration.

 

Worth noting that nowhere in his campaign promises/rhetoric did Trump talk about taking 5.7 billion dollars of tax payer money for this. (in fact he did not talk about using taxpayer money for it at all)

[ballpoint]

1 hour ago, taichiplanet said:

It worked for China. They built the Great Wall and no Mexicans have penetrated it yet.

I think at least three may have sneaked in...

 

Edited January 13, 2019 by ballpoint

[marcusarelus]

World of walls: How 65 countries have erected fences on their borders – four times as many as when the Berlin Wall was toppled – as governments try to hold back the tide of migrants

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205724/How-65-countries-erected-security-walls-borders.html

[ballpoint]

Just now, marcusarelus said:

World of walls: How 65 countries have erected fences on their borders – four times as many as when the Berlin Wall was toppled – as governments try to hold back the tide of migrants

 

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3205724/How-65-countries-erected-security-walls-borders.html

And, from that link:

"Experts are dismissive, saying: 'Their main function is theatre. They provide the sense of security, not real security'"

[Denim]

49 minutes ago, TonyClifton said:

Worked for east Berlin

Sent from my Star Trek Communicator.
 

That was in effect a double wall , heavily guarded , with a killing ground of 100 meters between.

 

Nonetheless, 5000 people managed to cross from east to west and about 136 died in the attempt.

 

Quite a bit shorter too.

[Stargeezr]

Build a test wall across southern Manitoba, Ontario, and the part of Quebec where the illegals

have been crossing, Canada will not help pay, but would be grateful.

Geezer

[Ahab]

6 hours ago, bristolboy said:

State and local police departments' primary duty is to keep the local residents safe. They depend on locals' cooperation. They know from experience that if illegal immigrants fear that they will be deported if they cooperate with the police, they are much less likely to do so. 

Edit: And that if their friends and relatives get deported for minor infractions that will also discourage their cooperation.

Nice theory and if that what was happening more people might support sanctuary cities, but it is not. When illegal immigrants commit crimes (drunk driving, violent crimes etc.) what is the rational for not calling the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service and deporting him/her? So the illegal immigrant can go out and commit more crimes and not have to be deported?

 

This stuff is so moronic that you really could not make up something this dumb if you put a lot of effort into it. 

[bristolboy]

1 hour ago, Longcut said:

How many non-U.S. citizens are voting in this pole and how many U.S. citizens don't give a damn what other people think? ????

For all we know you may be an Australian. Everybody is pretty much anonymous here. It's the Internet. And the moderators have made it very clear that the only qualifying criterion for participating in any forum on thaivisa is that you're a member.

[Ahab]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

My understanding is that Congress has approved funds for a wall or barrier - just not the huge amount being demanded by the Administration.

 

Worth noting that nowhere in his campaign promises/rhetoric did Trump talk about taking 5.7 billion dollars of tax payer money for this. (in fact he did not talk about using taxpayer money for it at all)

Congress has (to date) approved zero funds for a wall.

[NanLaew]

10 hours ago, TopDeadSenter said:

I think there was some correlation between the fall of the Berlin wall and the number of people crossing from East to West Germany. From zero to millions and it wasn't a coincidence. That was another wall that "worked" much like Trump's will.

And ultimately, most of the thousands that crossed from east to west, only seeking freedom and a better life, achieved this despite a significant reluctance of the (west) Germans to embrace the flood and the undeniable but fleeting impact it had on (west) Germany's powerful economy. It is also undeniable that there was a component of criminals and other undesirables that also benefited from their new freedom but that didn't cause any huge surge in crime and criminality in (west) Germany.

 

So what exactly is DJT running scared from?

[NanLaew]

16 minutes ago, Ahab said:

When illegal immigrants commit crimes (drunk driving, violent crimes etc.) what is the rational for not calling the Immigration and Customs Enforcement Service and deporting him/her?

When I was working in the US, I was t-boned by a drunk, illegal Hispanic running a red light. He was arrested, charged, brought to court, found guilty and in lieu of having any money, jailed for a few months before he was deported. This was standard operating procedure about 12 years ago and I don't think it has changed much.

[MyFriend You]

12 hours ago, ivor bigun said:

Build one around the British coast while your at it

Sent from my SM-A720F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

I said Yes build the damned thing, while they are at it, build one along the California Border of adjoining states. 

[HerbalEd]

Wether you want the wall, or not, and even if it runs from coast to coast, it will never stop people from coming into USA illegally. I'm amazed that so many people don't realize this. People will tunnel (which they've already been doing for many years); people will start coming in by boat via Pacific & Atlantic Oceans & Gulf of Mexico; many will climb over the wall; and other methods will evolve. 

[Scott]

Numerous off-topic, troll posts and replies have been removed.   Also posts violating Fair Use Policy have been removed. 

 

[Cryingdick]

Would be interested to see how the votes split for Americans in the poll. 

[allanos]

1 hour ago, HerbalEd said:

Wether you want the wall, or not, and even if it runs from coast to coast, it will never stop people from coming into USA illegally. I'm amazed that so many people don't realize this. People will tunnel (which they've already been doing for many years); people will start coming in by boat via Pacific & Atlantic Oceans & Gulf of Mexico; many will climb over the wall; and other methods will evolve. 

Absolutely correct, it will not totally dissuade illegals from getting in to the USA, but I don't think that is the intention.  My understanding is that it will persuade illegal aliens not to even make the attempt, and thus cut the incursions down to manageable numbers.

 

I would also add that, in the scheme of things, $5bn is not a lot of money.  America is nearly $22 trillion dollars in debt, and counting.  In that financial context, the amount required for the wall is just chump change.

 

It is not often mentioned that social security payments, the cost of medical treatment, and the like, which the illegals claim or are paid out for, prison incarcerations where appropriate, etc., amounts to over

$100 billion dollars of American taxpayers' money each year.  If that could be reduced by just 5%, in year 1,  by keeping out a sufficient number of illegal aliens, the wall is paid for.

[KhaoYai]

Whatever your feelings are about illegal immigration to the USA - Trump's wall is a stupid and crazily costly idea. Remember when cars were stolen easily?  Modern security has made it very difficult so now thieves break into your house and steal the keys!!  If the wall is built, people will simply find another way to get into the USA.

 

Its just Trump's little pet 'want' and he's going to continue his tantrum until he gets it.  Like all naughty children - if you give into them, you're making a rod for your own back, he needs to be taught a lesson.

 

Yes it was an election pledge but in the same pledge he said that Mexico was going to pay for it - lunatic!

 

 

[Basil B]

I doubt this wall will stop or even significantly reduce illegal migration, they will find ways round, under, over and even through...

Trump say's he will recoup the cost of the wall with 20% tariffs on goods from Mexico but will this just make smuggling more profitable.

Would not the $12 billion be better spent as aid to the impoverished (and exploited by US interests) countries of South and Central America thereby reducing the causes of poverty and economic migration???

[sirineou]

49 minutes ago, Basil B said:

I doubt this wall will stop or even significantly reduce illegal migration, they will find ways round, under, over and even through...

Trump say's he will recoup the cost of the wall with 20% tariffs on goods from Mexico but will this just make smuggling more profitable.

Would not the $12 billion be better spent as aid to the impoverished (and exploited by US interests) countries of South and Central America thereby reducing the causes of poverty and economic migration???

  These people do not want to leave their countries, family, neighbors, friends and culture to come in the US and be exploited. 

For hundreds of years we have being supporting , despots, dictators, and plutocrats , creating banana republics and making the area and economic basket case. We have helped create the problem and have a responsibility to help resolve it.

   Creating jobs there and eliminating jobs for illegals here ,will go a long way towards solving the situation and would be a Win Win situation for all involved. 

 .

[OneEyedPie]

Hell yeah!  Build the wall and MAGA.  

[Jingthing]

No no no.

It's just a vanity propaganda project for a very vain president.

 

Quote

 

The wall is a testament to Trump’s toxic narcissism

As The Wall dominated the week’s news, a pitiful juxtaposition of two realities — one the hard truth, the other a lie — emerged to clarify the destructiveness of the American president’s toxic narcissism.

Federal workers facing their first payday without a check were selling their possessions on social media so they could pay their bills. President Trump told NBC News correspondent Kelly O’Donnell that he can “relate” to the unpaid workers.

 

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-wall-is-a-testament-to-trumps-toxic-narcissism/2019/01/11/f67f33e8-15ea-11e9-90a8-136fa44b80ba_story.html

[Ks45672]

15 hours ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Terrorists, most of which currently I would suggest are not prominently from Catholic South America, may well prefer sea and air routes. But the drug dealers, gang member, criminal element, who do come via land, and do commit robbery, rape and murder, as well as becoming involved in drugs, trafficking etc do come via land crossing. It is these elements that are the problem. In a similar way that the illegals trying to enter Europe and the UK are often young single men prepared to do anything. They obscure the real refugees and genuine asylum seekers as the numbers are swelled by the economic illegals.

 

The "wall" should be a metaphor for imposing much stricter tighter border controls. As the Mayor of McCallen says, it might be a wall, or fence, or whatever. But the objective must be to stop the large numbers illegally entering and those who prosper from it surely?

A wall will not have any effect on  drugs, the cartels own jets, submarines, shipping container vessels and countless other means not to mention sightly deeper tunnels will still work no matter how high the wall is

 

Probably Better to spend the cash on important stuff like hospitals etc

[NanLaew]

5 hours ago, allanos said:

I would also add that, in the scheme of things, $5bn is not a lot of money.  America is nearly $22 trillion dollars in debt, and counting.  In that financial context, the amount required for the wall is just chump change.

Fits the demographic well. Where the "average American household holds roughly $136,000 in debt, which can include mortgages, credit card debt, auto loans, student loans, and other kinds of household debt. In total, that amounts to $13.51 trillion of debt in the United States", the average American household doesn't think twice about buying a new car despite having maybe 2 or 3 years to run on the average existing car's 5 year note.

 

But I don't think there's been too much made of the actual price tag for the wall and detractors have reasonably suggested that it can be better spent on enhancing and improving the existing defenses. Analogous maybe to getting the existing 2 - 3 year old car fixed up, looking after it and running it for a few more years instead of buying a new one?

 

Unsurprisingly, asset depreciation doesn't factor in DJT's 'art of the deal' at all but building something with his name on it is yuge. Bigly yuge.

[canuckamuck]

It's a waste of money. The investment should be on AI gun turrets, appropriately spaced, and drone patrols.

Edited January 13, 2019 by canuckamuck