UK in deadlock over Brexit 'Plan B' as May and Corbyn tussle

[webfact]

UK in deadlock over Brexit 'Plan B' as May and Corbyn tussle

By Kylie MacLellan and William James

 

An anti-Brexit demonstrator stands outside the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain January 9, 2019. REUTERS/Henry Nicholls/Files

 

LONDON (Reuters) - Britain's last-minute scramble to shape an EU exit, its biggest policy upheaval in half a century, stalled on Thursday as Prime Minister Theresa May and opposition Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn dug in their heels for competing visions.

 

After May's two-year attempt to forge an amicable divorce with an independent trade policy was crushed by parliament in the biggest defeat for a British leader in modern history, May asked party leaders to forget self-interest to find a solution.

 

Yet there was little sign on Thursday that either of the two major parties -- which hold 88 percent of the 650 seats in parliament -- were prepared to compromise on key demands.

 

Corbyn said May had sent Britain hurtling towards the cliff edge of a disorderly exit on March 29 with no transition period, and urged her to ditch "red lines".

 

But he repeated his own prerequisite for talks: a pledge to block a no-deal Brexit. May told Corbyn that was "an impossible condition" and urged him to join cross-party discussions.

 

"You have always believed in the importance of dialogue in politics. Do you really believe that, as well as declining to meet for talks yourself, it is right to ask your MPs not to seek a solution with the government?," she said in a letter.

 

The further May moves towards softening Brexit, the more she alienates dedicated Brexit supporters in her own Conservative party who think the threat of a no-deal exit is a big bargaining chip and should anyway not be feared.

 

May's spokeswoman said she held "constructive" talks on Thursday with lawmakers, including some from Labour.

 

If she fails to forge consensus, the world's fifth-largest economy will drop out of the European Union on March 29 without a deal or will be forced to delay Brexit, possibly holding a national election or another referendum.

 

Corbyn said that he might look at options including another referendum -- a remark that increased market expectations the chaos could ultimately delay or stop Brexit.

 

But a second referendum would take a year to organise, according to government guidance shown to lawmakers on Wednesday, a source in May's office said.

 

ANOTHER VOTE?

Corbyn wants May to call another election, something she has refused, having lost her parliamentary majority in a 2017 snap poll that left her reliant on the support of a small Northern Irish pro-Brexit party.

 

She has also repeatedly said another referendum would corrode faith in democracy among the 17.4 million people who voted to leave the EU in 2016. Her spokesman said Britain had not raised the idea of delaying exit with the EU.

 

As the United Kingdom tumbles towards its biggest political and economic shift since World War Two, other EU members have offered to talk.

 

"We will do everything we can so that Britain exits with, and not without, an agreement," said German Foreign Minister Heiko Maas.

 

EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier said the bloc was open to the possibility of a "more ambitious" deal than May's, which he said could not be improved on under principles she set out.

 

But they can do little until London decides what it wants.

 

Ever since the UK voted by 52-48 percent to leave the EU, politicians have failed to agree on how or even whether to quit the bloc. If there is a solution to the riddle, it may be for parliament's back-benchers to find it.

 

May will on Monday put forward a motion on her proposed next steps. Over the following week, lawmakers will be able to propose alternatives.

 

On Jan. 29, they will debate these plans, and voting on them should indicate whether any could get majority support.

 

If a way forward emerges, May could then go back to the EU and seek changes to her deal. Parliament would still need to vote on any new agreement, and it is not clear when that might happen.

 

Labour says it would back a deal with a permanent customs union with the EU -- which would resolve the problem of managing the land border between Northern Ireland and the Irish Republic -- as well as a close relationship with its single market and greater protections for workers and consumers.

 

Most Conservative lawmakers reject a customs union because it would prevent Britain having an independent trade policy -- one of their main demands.

 

Without any deal, trade with the EU would default to basic World Trade Organization rules -- a worrying prospect for manufacturers dependent on smooth, uncomplicated supply lines.

 

Company chiefs are aghast at the crisis and say it has already damaged Britain's reputation as Europe's pre-eminent destination for foreign investment.

 

From Channel Tunnel operator Eurotunnel to Scottish whisky distillers, firms want decisive government action.

 

"If anybody believes that you can just go ahead without some sort of an agreement here, I think that that is reckless," said John Bason, finance chief of Associated British Foods <ABF.L>, a food and retail group with annual sales of over $20 billion.

 

(Writing by Guy Faulconbridge; Additional reporting by Elizabeth Piper in Hastings, England, and Kate Holton, Andy Bruce and James Davey in London; Editing by Kevin Liffey, Catherine Evans and Andrew Cawthorne)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2019-01-18

 

[Chomper Higgot]

Didn’t Rees-Mogg, Gove, Davis and Johnson promise to deliver a ‘Plan-B’ some months back?

[SheungWan]

11 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Didn’t Rees-Mogg, Gove, Davis and Johnson promise to deliver a ‘Plan-B’ some months back?

Well maybe they did, but things have moved on and since there is no Parliamentary majority for any deal or no-deal currently on the table, the initiative for cross-party discussions is the de facto Plan B. 

[OneMoreFarang]

May and her party are like a big truck which she drove into dead end street. Now she is at the very end with no options anymore and now she asks the opposition: What should I do? But she insist she will continue into the same direction.

 

If this would be a movie nobody would watch it because it's totally unbelievable.

But it's reality for the UK and EU - unbelievable, but it really happens...

[Lungstib]

Britain has been in deadlock ever since the referendum. The politicians dont want what the people voted for and what Cameron promised. How is that fixed?

[OneMoreFarang]

4 minutes ago, Lungstib said:

Britain has been in deadlock ever since the referendum. The politicians dont want what the people voted for and what Cameron promised. How is that fixed?

The politicians promised the impossible. And now they find out it's impossible to have the cake and eat it.

The same politicians should cancel the impossible brexit, resign and never "work" in politics again.

[Denim]

Bet I know what May sings in the bath.

 

' Three wheels on my wagon

and I'm still rolling along.

 

[Cobby]

I do not understand why all the fuss

its better to have a no deal 

as a country we can stand alone we can survive very well 

england dose not need any one else 

we import 70% more than we export 

its Europe that needs us 

German cars 

French cars

itslian cars

spanish cars 

then it’s the wine

all foods the list goes on 

a no deal means the whole world will deal with us 

imigration

we can choose who we want to come to England 

???????????????????????????? 

it’s time now to put the great back into Britten 

 

and England to rule the waves again 

Long live 

 

 

 England ???????????????????????????? 

[steve187]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

Corbyn said May had sent Britain hurtling towards the cliff edge of a disorderly exit on March 29 with no transition period, and urged her to ditch "red lines".

 

But he repeated his own prerequisite for talks: a pledge to block a no-deal Brexit

the problem with Corbyn other than he is the leader of the labour party is that he knows there can not be a deal, (the EU have shown this during the negotiating over the last 2 years) and by asking for no, no deal brexit, he is edging for a spin at no 10, or another public vote, he is not putting the choice of the majority who voted in the referendum first.

[owl sees all]

It was a mistake JC calling a vote of 'no confidence' IMO.

 

May is saying to JC; "Look Dude, if you get your lot to support a slightly tweaked second deal, I will agree to an election. Got it!"

 

UKIP could rise once again. The people voted to leave; not to be half-in, half-out. We are being fooled into thinking that a no-deal (leave) would be bad. It would be great to get away from the federalists-in-disguise club.

[whatsupdoc]

34 minutes ago, Cobby said:

I do not understand why all the fuss

its better to have a no deal 

as a country we can stand alone we can survive very well 

england dose not need any one else 

we import 70% more than we export 

its Europe that needs us 

German cars 

French cars

itslian cars

spanish cars 

then it’s the wine

all foods the list goes on 

a no deal means the whole world will deal with us 

imigration

we can choose who we want to come to England 

???????????????????????????? 

it’s time now to put the great back into Britten 

 

and England to rule the waves again 

Long live 

 

 

 England ???????????????????????????? 

Really do not understand this logic. So after Brexit the UK does not need cars and food from abroad anymore?

As you say; "england dose (sic) not need any one else". Good luck with that, the reality will bite hard.

 

Why does the UK import more than it exports? Because it is so independent and self sufficient?????

[OneMoreFarang]

3 minutes ago, whatsupdoc said:

35 minutes ago, Cobby said:

I do not understand why all the fuss

its better to have a no deal 

as a country we can stand alone we can survive very well 

england dose not need any one else 

we import 70% more than we export 

its Europe that needs us 

German cars 

French cars

itslian cars

spanish cars 

then it’s the wine

all foods the list goes on 

a no deal means the whole world will deal with us 

imigration

we can choose who we want to come to England 

???????????????????????????? 

it’s time now to put the great back into Britten 

 

and England to rule the waves again 

Long live 

 

 

 England ???????????????????????????? 

Really do not understand this logic. So after Brexit the UK does not need cars and food from abroad anymore?

As you say; "england dose (sic) not need any one else". Good luck with that, the reality will bite hard.

I agree with you.

With posts like above I always think: Is this real? Do you really believe what you write? Or are you just taking the p$#?

[Loiner]

It was a mistake JC calling a vote of 'no confidence' IMO.
 
May is saying to JC; "Look Dude, if you get your lot to support a slightly tweaked second deal, I will agree to an election. Got it!"
 
UKIP could rise once again. The people voted to leave; not to be half-in, half-out. We are being fooled into thinking that a no-deal (leave) would be bad. It would be great to get away from the federalists-in-disguise club.

At the next GE it will be time for UKIP to rise again. The current bunch of incompetents in govt and opposition have failed the British public. The electorate on both sides of the divide have had enough of them.

At the 2015 GE the results were:
CON - 36.9%
LAB - 30.4%
UKIP - 12.6%
Significant swing votes from the millions of disgruntled voters could easily sweep UKIP into power.

Unless something very odd happens, even in these uncertain times, it is unlikely to affect the current mess. But who knows what the future implications would be to what is now being rigged for the EU at Theresa’s round table?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[KiChakayan]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I agree with you.

With posts like above I always think: Is this real? Do you really believe what you write? Or are you just taking the p$#?

Are you talking to 52% of UK voters?

[Loiner]

Really do not understand this logic. So after Brexit the UK does not need cars and food from abroad anymore?
As you say; "england dose (sic) not need any one else". Good luck with that, the reality will bite hard.
 
Why does the UK import more than it exports? Because it is so independent and self sufficient?????

There’s still a lot of not understanding going on with the Remainers. What he’s saying is that a No Deal could be better for the UK

The balance of trade is massively in favour of the EU. So the leverage for a deal that suits the UK is massively in our favour. That’s wether we can find a deal, or emerge free to trade on our terms.

Theresa must not be allowed to continue her attempts at capitulation. Corbyn’s attempt to remove a major negotiation lever (and probable outcome) should be kicked out of the discussions.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[whatsupdoc]

8 minutes ago, Loiner said:

The balance of trade is massively in favour of the EU. So the leverage for a deal that suits the UK is massively in our favour. 

Sorry, but sounds more like wishful thinking than logic to me.

[nobodysfriend]

1 hour ago, Cobby said:

I do not understand why all the fuss

its better to have a no deal 

as a country we can stand alone we can survive very well 

england dose not need any one else 

we import 70% more than we export 

its Europe that needs us 

German cars 

French cars

itslian cars

spanish cars 

then it’s the wine

all foods the list goes on 

a no deal means the whole world will deal with us 

imigration

we can choose who we want to come to England 

???????????????????????????? 

it’s time now to put the great back into Britten 

 

and England to rule the waves again 

Long live 

 

 

 England ???????????????????????????? 

Thanks for the good laugh ...

[melvinmelvin]

1 hour ago, OneMoreFarang said:

I agree with you.

With posts like above I always think: Is this real? Do you really believe what you write? Or are you just taking the p$#?

 

when reading posts like that I always wonder;

is this real, like barstool rambling

or is it supposed to be funny/joke?

 

[JAG]

1 hour ago, whatsupdoc said:

Really do not understand this logic. So after Brexit the UK does not need cars and food from abroad anymore?

As you say; "england dose (sic) not need any one else". Good luck with that, the reality will bite hard.

 

Why does the UK import more than it exports? Because it is so independent and self sufficient?????

I think that perhaps he is suggesting that it would be in the interests of the remaining EU nations to facilitate trade with the UK, as they do sell us rather a lot of things? 

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Britain has been in deadlock ever since the referendum. The politicians dont want what the people voted for and what Cameron promised. How is that fixed?

The politicians dont want what some of the people voted for.

 

Most people did not vote for Brexit.

 

This is not ‘the will of the people’.

[RuamRudy]

2 hours ago, Cobby said:

I do not understand why all the fuss

its better to have a no deal 

as a country we can stand alone we can survive very well 

england dose not need any one else 

we import 70% more than we export 

its Europe that needs us 

German cars 

French cars

itslian cars

spanish cars 

then it’s the wine

all foods the list goes on 

a no deal means the whole world will deal with us 

imigration

we can choose who we want to come to England 

???????????????????????????? 

it’s time now to put the great back into Britten 

 

and England to rule the waves again 

Long live 

 

 

 England ???????????????????????????? 

Well said, my friend, although you do realise, don't you, that Britten (sic), great or otherwise, is not synonymous with England?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, Cobby said:

I do not understand why all the fuss

its better to have a no deal 

as a country we can stand alone we can survive very well 

england dose not need any one else 

we import 70% more than we export 

its Europe that needs us 

German cars 

French cars

itslian cars

spanish cars 

then it’s the wine

all foods the list goes on 

a no deal means the whole world will deal with us 

imigration

we can choose who we want to come to England 

???????????????????????????? 

it’s time now to put the great back into Britten 

 

and England to rule the waves again 

Long live 

 

 

 England ???????????????????????????? 

The Little Englander forgot about the rest of the UK, or, like as not, it never entered his head.

[rixalex]

29 minutes ago, OneMoreFarang said:

The politicians promised the impossible. And now they find out it's impossible to have the cake and eat it.

The same politicians should cancel the impossible brexit, resign and never "work" in politics again.

The politicians, first and foremost, promised to implement the will of the people. And that was to LEAVE the EU. Anyone who tells you THAT is impossible, is lying. Of course it is possible. Britain existed before the EU, it can exist again.

 

The only people who are now demanding the cake and eat it stuff, are those who don't want Brexit to happen.

[Srikcir]

1 hour ago, owl sees all said:

It was a mistake JC calling a vote of 'no confidence' IMO.

Which may have presented better clarity for UK's future.

325 British lawmakers said they had confidence in the government, while 306 said they did not.

The vote increased the possibility of a softer exit from the EU - Goldman Sachs

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/01/16/pound-little-changed-ahead-of-no-confidence-vote-in-the-uk.html

[whatsupdoc]

24 minutes ago, JAG said:

I think that perhaps he is suggesting that it would be in the interests of the remaining EU nations to facilitate trade with the UK, as they do sell us rather a lot of things? 

Of course that is why the EU is not happy with Brexit (amongst other reasons), but the UK imports more than it exports. That indicates it is not self sufficient and needs goods from abroad. So after Brexit the UK will continue to import goods (also from the EU) but with a lot more paperwork and costs. A lose-lose situation but the most damaging for the UK.

[DPKANKAN]

2 hours ago, Lungstib said:

Britain has been in deadlock ever since the referendum. The politicians dont want what the people voted for and what Cameron promised. How is that fixed?

That brain dead Corbyn is seeking his one chance at power so f..k the British people!! He is a waste of space and air!!!!????????????????

[sammieuk1]

Hopefully Corbunkel will now face a similar vote after squandering any chance of credibility in the face of such weak and divided opposition .

 

Meantime Has Boris evaporated ? Gove has switched sides yet again and is now busy polishing his knife to stab May! Farage popped up to deliver some Norway and fish crap and Rees Mogg  has bolstered his Russian portfolio in the event of any deal. What a great Brittan ????   

[David in the north]

2 hours ago, whatsupdoc said:

Really do not understand this logic. So after Brexit the UK does not need cars and food from abroad anymore?

As you say; "england dose (sic) not need any one else". Good luck with that, the reality will bite hard.

 

Why does the UK import more than it exports? Because it is so independent and self sufficient?????

Twaddle
Do you honestly think countries will refuse to sell cars & food to the UK?
Corbyn is purely out to cause as much mischief as possible in his futile attempts to have a Marxist government in the UK, regardless of what damage it does to the country or it's people.

[whatsupdoc]

7 minutes ago, David in the north said:

Twaddle
Do you honestly think countries will refuse to sell cars & food to the UK?
 

They will happily continue selling, but the UK customer likely ends up paying a lot more for them.

You completely misunderstood me.

[vogie]

42 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

The politicians dont want what some of the people voted for.

 

Most people did not vote for Brexit.

 

This is not ‘the will of the people’.

The politicians by voting for article 50 were saying they wanted to leave the EU, it is law now, all parliamentary MPs agreed to leave accept the SNP. You cannot get pregnant and decide 6 months later you don't want to be.

 

I know you have trouble with the word democracy, but more voters voted out than voted in, I hope that clears this matter up, but somehow I doubt it.

 

Below is a typical remainers idea of what democracy is, but have no fear Nigel Farage soon corrected her.