The Real Problem With Keeping 800K In Thai Bank

[Sheryl]

6 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

 ....I'll look for the highest return to deposit my money in whatever bank gives me the most whatever country that may be. 

 

I'm sure I'm not alone.  I can see a net drop in foreign deposits as a result of the new law.  Obvious they have not thought it through. 

Unless you are a citizen of a country that still issues income certificates, under the new rules for the income method, you have to transfer the money monthly into a Thai bank.

 

The majority of retirees here are from the 4 countries that no longer give letters. How then do foreign deposits go down?

 

(not that I think this has anything to do with TI's thinking. Retiree income is a drop in the bucket in the overall economy of the country, and TI is a branch of the police, not the Ministry of Finance or BoT. They are not in any way concerned with the country's economic affairs or economic policy)

[guzzi850m2]

Also never lost money from my Thai bank accounts after +15 years here.

 

When buying a house I had a lot of money on my account, not too worried about it.

 

Using my ATM cards a bit carefully, one Visa card linked to on-line purchasing only have very limited funds at all times.

 

When drawing out money from an ATM machine, I try to use the ones at the banks.

[marcusarelus]

5 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unless you are a citizen of a country that still issues income certificates, under the new rules for the income method, you have to transfer the money monthly into a Thai bank.

 

The majority of retirees here are from the 4 countries that no longer give letters. How then do foreign deposits go down?

Perhaps I wasn't clear.  I have a large amount on deposit now in Thai banks. 

 

I also have a direct deposit account for my pension. 

 

I had used the 800,000 method but I don't want to come back to immigration if I get a conditional visa extension. 

 

So, I'll remove the large cash accounts to another country that pays better interest and leave the direct deposit account that receives my pension which is considerably over 65 per month. 

 

Others will do the same thing and Thailand will be the net loser in deposits. 

 

It is my understanding of the new law that I will get a letter from the bank and my passbook that will prove monthly deposits from Social Security. 

Edited February 3, 2019 by marcusarelus

[Sheryl]

No reason to think conditional extensions will be given nor a return visit required. They may simply verify compliance at the following year's extension, same as they already do on the 90 day reports.

 

But this has really not been made clear.

[ravip]

2 hours ago, arithai12 said:

A non-issue.

Keep 800k in a fixed deposit account.

Does a Fixed Deposit account of 800K qualify for the visa?

Is it not compulsory that it should be a savings account?

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Lacessit said:

In ten years with two banks, never had it happen. I stick with savings passbooks, no debit/credit cards.

 

That doesn't mean it cannot and does not happen. It does, it's in the news regularly, and even for accounts with no bank cards involved.

 

I agree with the OP's point. Given the history of (and handling of) account theft here, I would be very reluctant to keep any significant amount of funds in a bank account here.

 

Just because it hasn't (yet) happened to you or me or X number of others doesn't mean it can't and won't happen. Just a matter of odds, chances and time.

 

You haven't gotten killed yet in a Thai road crash either... But that doesn't mean folks aren't dying by the thousands.... (Just an analogy...not suggesting account theft is THAT prevalent).

 

 

[BritTim]

2 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

You have heard many stories?

Got any more besides the article you read where in fact the money was returned?

Over many years, with different banks, I have never personally had a problem like that described. At least now, I think such issues are rare. However, about 10-15 years ago (I cannot remember exactly) a good friend of mine had over 200,000 baht filched from his account by ATM skimmers. It took a great deal of determination on my friend's part to get the bank to accept responsibility. It was almost two years until the money was returned to his account.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

49 minutes ago, Toosetinmyways said:

Why would anyone who has doubts over a country's banking system choose to retire here.

 

Because you can safely keep your money in home country accounts that probably are safer and better protected by actual consumer protection laws and policies, and still live in Thailand at the same time.

 

I choose to take advantage and make use of the good aspects of things here, and avoid as much at possible the various bad and substandard things here.

 

[Khaeng Mak]

34 minutes ago, dcnx said:

Cambodia, Philippines, Ecuador, Mexico, Colombia, Peru, and Chile are reasonably priced. You can get citizenship in Peru in 2 years. Ecuador gives you 7% - 8% on the money you put in their banks for an investment / business visa. There are options, you just have to research. TONS of groups on Facebook for all of their countries full of helpful expats. 

Indonesia offers a 25 Year Visa for those that marry a local girl.

[Felt 35]

10 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Unless you are a citizen of a country that still issues income certificates, under the new rules for the income method

I plan to continue with income certificate (I'm from one of the countries still issue them) and will in addition update bankbook monthly to show that I actually transfer money here...........but but......I think I already can hear the IO when going for extension .......this.. no good, no have money in Bank no extension.......discretion

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

2 hours ago, Pib said:

Ditto....over 10 years with various Thai bank accounts, predominately Bangkok Bank, no problem.  No funds have gone missing, etc 

 

IMO most stories you hear from farangs in Thailand regarding money disappearing from their account are related to the individual's lax security of his ibanking and debit card credentials....debit card gets used for purchases...etc.  And of course "love you long time" girlfriends and estranged spouses.

 

There have been MANY news reports over the years of Thai citizens having their accounts illegally drained or drawn down by bank employees and/or those related to them through out-and-out criminal behavior. Nothing to do with any lapses or scheming acquiantances of the account holder.

 

Oftentimes, we end up hearing that some bank employee/employees finally were arrested by the police, but often little or no mention of whether and when and how much the account holder was reimbursed for.

 

[HuskerDo]

1 hour ago, Sheryl said:

yes, I have no complaints with Thai banks other than the currently low interest rates.

 

I'm starting to have some serious complaints with immigration though..... ????

There are low interest rates everywhere these days Sheryl. The only place I found more reasonable rates were in longer term CDs but even those were low by historical standards. I remember back in the early 80's and I was working my way thru college with both a full-time and part-time job. I couldn't understand why people got student loans and went into debt when they could work while attending college (still don't). I was eligible for a student loan so I got a small one ($5k) and promptly deposited it into a CD where the interest rate at that time was just over 18%. The first one worked out so well I got another student loan the next year and did the same thing with it. In 4 years they both had doubled in value so I paid off the loans and had $10k in my pocket fresh out of college with no debts. If only "decent" interests rates would return. However, the low low inflation we've had for many years pretty much offsets that. 

[marcusarelus]

11 minutes ago, ravip said:

Does a Fixed Deposit account of 800K qualify for the visa?

Is it not compulsory that it should be a savings account?

Yes

[Khaeng Mak]

9 minutes ago, ravip said:

Does a Fixed Deposit account of 800K qualify for the visa?

Is it not compulsory that it should be a savings account?

This is another area that demonstrates the ineptitude of Thai immigration.

The correct answer is sometimes.

Every office has a different take on this.

Some accept a FD, some don't.

And the clarity on issues such this has never been improved.  

And now the waters are even muddier with this new police order.

Immigration loves grey areas and uncertainty.

It creates financial opportunity.

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

There have been MANY news reports over the years of Thai citizens having their accounts illegally drained or drawn down by bank employees and/or those related to them through out-and-out criminal behavior. Nothing to do with any lapses or scheming acquiantances of the account holder.

 

Oftentimes, we end up hearing that some bank employee/employees finally were arrested by the police, but often little or no mention of whether and when and how much the account holder was reimbursed for.

 

Silly.  SMS notification of any account action will prevent this.  SMS notification easy and takes a minute to activate. 

[marcusarelus]

Just now, Khaeng Mak said:

This is another area that demonstrates the ineptitude of Thai immigration.

The correct answer is sometimes.

Every office has a different take on this.

Some accept a FD, some don't.

And the clarity on issues such this has never been improved.  

And now the waters are even muddier with this new police order.

Immigration loves grey areas and uncertainty.

It creates financial opportunity.

I have never heard of an office that did not take fixed accounts.  If you have link it. 

[melvinmelvin]

12 minutes ago, ravip said:

Does a Fixed Deposit account of 800K qualify for the visa?

Is it not compulsory that it should be a savings account?

 

fixed deposit

savings

 

both go, as far as I understand

 

I have used fixed deposit for years, have now changed to savings

 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, BritManToo said:

Cambodia, you only need $300 for a 1 year retirement VISA, if over 55.

Philippines, you only need the extension fees for up to 3 years, any age.

Vietnam, you just need the extension fees.

As for the Philippines, the extension fees for 3 years is not for a retirement visa (SRRV); that is for a tourist visa waiver, which is just that: A tourist visa.

 

The PI is cracking down on things that formerly could be done on a tourist visa, such as open a bank (still might be possible with a bit of searching and a lot of luck), get a driver's license, or register a motor vehicle.

 

There have also been one or two postings on some of the PI forums about individuals getting increased scrutiny when trying to extend within the 3 year period; ultimately they were able to extend, but it was not a slam dunk. Of course, those was anecdotes on a forum and, at least currently, outliers; these folks could have done something to draw attention to themselves or acted rudely toward the IO officer.

 

Vietnam does not currently have a retirement visa - the best multi-entry tourist visa one can get is for one year and that is for American passport holders only and is available only from the Vietnam embassy and consulates in the U.S.

 

And on the website for the Vietnam embassy in Washington, D.C., it is made quite clear that although the visa is for one-year multi-entry, it is up to the discretion of the immigration officer at one's arrival just how long one may stay on a particular entry, but the maximum is 3 months. It isn't specifically stated, but it's likely that, just as in other countries, although one has a valid multi-entry visa, an immigration officer may deny entry to whomever he sees fit.

 

Something to think twice about before trying to become a perpetual tourist in Vietnam.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, marcusarelus said:

Silly.  SMS notification of any account action will prevent this.  SMS notification easy and takes a minute to activate. 

 

And it's usually the 800K-like kind of accounts that the criminal bank employees often target --specifically, I don't mean just farang accounts, I mean accounts where there isn't a lot of, or any, transaction activity.  And the funds are just sitting there throughout the year earning some interest. Because the bank employee criminals correctly guess the accountholder won't immediately notice the thefts, and have no reason to be checking their accounts day in and day out.

 

 

Edited February 3, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[BritManToo]

7 minutes ago, gentlemanjackdarby said:

And on the website for the Vietnam embassy in Washington, D.C., it is made quite clear that although the visa is for one-year multi-entry, it is up to the discretion of the immigration officer at one's arrival just how long one may stay on a particular entry, but the maximum is 3 months. It isn't specifically stated, but it's likely that, just as in other countries, although one has a valid multi-entry visa, an immigration officer may deny entry to whomever he sees fit.

 

Something to think twice about before trying to become a perpetual tourist in Vietnam.

I met loads of guys there in April last year, they weren't having any problems getting VISA's at all.

Maybe you should visit there, and not just read posts on forums.

They all used agents, so 'denial' is just a river in Africa.

Edited February 3, 2019 by BritManToo

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

3 hours ago, ChouDoufu said:

if you're worried, set up three accounts:   a fixed account for your immigration seasoning that earns more interest.  a savings account for the bulk of your savings that you swift money into and has no atm card.  and a second savings account with atm card for your daily expenses that you can recharge from your bulk account online.

AND how exactly will i explain all this to the thai banker? last time

i talekd with them about getting new card the girl working there said, maybe to her collegue:

PAI LEO LEO  - go quick quick

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

There have been SOME past posts here on the forum of members with fixed deposit accounts a] having a certain bank tell them they won't do a passbook update without some activity in the account, and b] the type of fixed account not allowing any deposits or withdrawals during its term.

 

There also have been some past posts by members who ended up with apparently what are called by some banks time deposit accounts, where the money is seriously locked up for the duration of the account (no option to withdraw penalty or no penalty), and those have been refused by Immigration.

 

I have a fixed deposit account with CIMB, and I'm pretty sure they've told me in the past that they couldn't/wouldn't update my passbook merely upon my request (such as if I was heading to Immigration that day), and that their system and machines only would update it with activity.

 

One example:

 

 

 

 

[rott]

2 hours ago, BritManToo said:

Cambodia, you only need $300 for a 1 year retirement VISA, if over 55.

Philippines, you only need the extension fees for up to 3 years, any age.

Vietnam, you just need the extension fees.

What are the fees for Vietnam please. Initial plus extensions and what limit to extensions?

 

 Cheers

[SCOTT FITZGERSLD]

3 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

You have heard many stories?

Got any more besides the article you read where in fact the money was returned?

yep, in this story the money was returned, that's why you hear about it. the banks - all 

over the world - don't publish the many other stories where money was lost - for their client.

but you can get the truth if you talk to people or search for it, here, i did some research for you:

 

https://www.bangkokpost.com/news/general/1582910/cops-arrest-atm-card-skimmers

http://www.samuitimes.com/banks-looking-solutions-atm-fraud-two-russians-thai-tourist-police-arrested/

http://www.samuitimes.com/french-nationals-arrested-phuket-atm-fraud-attempting-bribe-police-officer/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30355178

https://www.thephuketnews.com/ukrainian-caught-over-b18mn-phuket-villas-atm-skim-scam-67474.php

https://www.upi.com/Thai-police-bust-Russians-in-international-ATM-scam/75351384804630/

http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30344197

 

[Sheryl]

There have been accounts of this over the years here and there, the rationale being that they wanted to see drawdowns on the money to show that you were using it for living costs. And there is some logic in that.

Of course now that the rules are that the money is not to be spent, this logic is out the window.

Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[gentlemanjackdarby]

1 hour ago, chickenslegs said:

I may be missing something, but I don't see any incentive to use the 800,000 in a Thai bank method any longer.

Sounds like you might be better off keeping your 800,000 back in your home country, then bring it here in monthly installments of 65,000 baht. That way you would qualify for your extension and be free to spend your money as you wish.

There is one downside to the monthly transfer method and that is ensuring that, if one uses Transferwise, all of the monthly transfers are coded 'FTT' for 'foreign telegraphic transfer' on one's Thailand bank's books - there is some speculation, and it's only speculation at this point, that one's extension may be denied if the IO can't easily distinguish that the monthly transfers are coming from outside Thailand.

 

Of course, one could use a bank that makes wire (SWIFT) transfers rather than Transferwise and it would be guaranteed that the transfer would be coded FTT; of course, that likely comes with a higher cost than Transferwise but it's not as bad as I first thought.

 

I checked on the wire transfer fees at the banks at which I have accounts and they're around USD 45 - 50; however, that is roughly the monthly interest that I would earn, with essentially no risk, on THB 800,000 (USD 25,600) in a purchased money fund (similar to a money market fund that invests in ultra short commercial paper).

 

And unlike a lot of folks who spew out about their 'great returns' on their 'sophisticated investments', I'll back up what I wrote above with specific details so that others, if they so choose, may verify what I'm saying and, if they care to, take advantage of it.

 

Charles Schwab, an American brokerage (the folks who brought us the Schwab Bank account with the debit card that reimburses ALL ATM fees, U.S. and non-U.S.), offers a purchased money fund (Ticker SWVXX) that, for the latest 7-day period, paid 2.33% on funds that are completely liquid.

 

So, in my analysis, keeping USD 25,600 (THB 800,000) in my Schwab account and simply transferring the equivalent of THB 65K from monthly income each month seems the smarter and safer option since I won't have to worry about any 'problems' in the Thai banking system affecting anything other than the portion of my monthly income, in the bank after paying monthly expenses, that I've transferred to meet the THB 65K requirement.

 

As well, because the U.S. allows financial accounts to be designated as 'Totten Trusts', i.e, with a designated beneficiary entitled to the funds in the account upon the account holder's death, my heirs would not have to deal with a lot of aggro, drills, expenses, etc. as they would if I have significant funds on deposit in a Thai Bank.

 

And I don't have to deal with exchange rate gains or losses as I would if I had significant funds on deposit in a Thai bank and one day chose to repatriate those funds - I know a lot of folks are crowing that 'the Thai Baht will only get stronger', but I've been around the money game long enough to understand that what goes up (interest rates, equities, currencies, etc.) eventually must come down and, with the rise in Thailand household debt, I see the Thai Baht more likely on the down side of things in the mid-term future. So I don't lose now (THB historically strong relative to USD) or at some point down the road (repatriating a largish sum when the THB is likely weak against the USD) or later by keeping my money at home.

[utalkin2me]

The problem with keeping 800k in the bank is keeping 800k in the bank. 

[OJAS]

Looks like I'm the first on here to have had actual experience of fraudulent ATM withdrawals on not 1, but 2, separate accounts with separate banks - Krung Thai and Kasikorn. So, as far as i am concerned, the OP's points are well-made. The amounts involved were around 20,000 THB in each case - and, needless to say, neither Krung Thai nor Kasikorn showed any inclination to reimburse me for my losses. As a result, I withdrew what was left in my accounts with those 2 particular banks PDQ, and let them eventually lapse.

 

These days I bank with Bangkok Bank but with no cards linked to my account. Fingers crossed, I have not, to date, experienced any further problems with unauthorised withdrawals. But, as others have pointed out, I am, of course, still not immune from negative actions instigated by determined crooked bank employees - in connection with which I recall, with some concern, a report on here about 6 months ago relating to one such Bangkok Bank employee.

Edited February 3, 2019 by OJAS

[richard_smith237]

Never an issue with money disappearing from an account...  But I have also read that it's happened - a corrupt bank employee... but that's incredibly rare. 

 

More common is ATM skimming.... which, could happen to any of us.  To ensure I am protected against this I have two accounts...

- One 'main account' with a larger amount in it (ATM card is kept in the safe)

- Two 'user account' in which I keep a smaller amount (ATM card in my wallet) and top it up with my phone banking App as and when required.

 

 

[gentlemanjackdarby]

39 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

I met loads of guys there in April last year, they weren't having any problems getting VISA's at all.

Maybe you should visit there, and not just read posts on forums.

They all used agents, so 'denial' is just a river in Africa.

Well, I'm not sure where you mean by 'there' since you didn't state it.

 

Nowhere in my OP did I say anything about anyone having problems getting a visa, either to the PI or Vietnam

 

Keep in mind RIF - READING IS FUNDAMENTAL!

 

Since most folks who go to the PI enter on a visa waiver and don't get SRRVs (an SRRV is a real visa), I have no choice by to assume you meant Vietnam

 

And I did not read WORD ONE about Vietnam visas on a forum nor did I say that I did in my OP.

 

As for what I wrote about Vietnam, I read THAT on the official website for the Vietnam Embassy in Washington, D.C. which is pretty close to the horse's mouth.

 

And I don't share your disdain for forums - I will admit that there are a lot half-baked and crackpot postings on all the forums, but most adults know enough not to believe everything they read and to perform their own due diligence before jumping. I'm also not so arrogant and self-assured to believe that I know so much that someone else's experience or opinion is of no value to me.

 

In the past, on this very forum, there were a lot of people posting about the eventual and inevitable crackdown on perpetual tourists, those abusing education visas, increased scrutiny on marriage visas, and finally those using 'liar's letters' and other methods to strengthen their financial bona-fides to meet retirement extension standards. And lo and behold, all of those things have come to pass and look at the situation in which some folks find themselves.

 

Glad I had sense enough to pay attention and act on what I've read on forums.