Too many people here in denial that these things are actually happening.   Wake up Folks; they are happening and these new rules are being implemented by many Immigration Offices already.  Won't be long (1st March) before all offices have to be on the same wavelength. Shame a lot of people on TV will still be living in Cloud Cuckoo Land !

41 minutes ago, Spidey said:

This version is a complete cobble together.

 

For the 65k baht income method, it's the old version, pre Embassies withdrawing their letters.

No mention of 65k baht from a foreign source going into a Thai bank, either this year or next.

 

I suspect that it's Phetchabun Immigration's (a.k.a. Nakon Nowhere Immigration) attempt at denying that the new method of proving monthly income exists. Probably because they can't get their heads round it and think that it will be too much trouble for them.

 

Appear to have combined 2 documents together. The original document showing the 65k/ month method and the new document outlining method of proving 800k in a Thai bank method.

 

Nice try. Suspect that you won't see this document anywhere outside Phetchabun Immigration.

The memo is from Bangkok Immigrations dated Jan 18, 2018...

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

As of 2020…

·         To apply for a NEW Retirement visa, you must either have:

o   A letter from your embassy verifying you receive a pension (not just any income) of a minimum of ฿65K per month. (As of 2020, this will be the ONLY acceptable proof of monthly income.),

So, if you are only 50, are a millionaire and are financially dependent ................ then they don't want you here!

 

Brilliant! Fantastic! You COULD NOT make this up! Classic !

 

    

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

The memo is from Bangkok Immigrations dated Jan 28, 2018...

2nd page. 1st page?

 

2 documents, one old and 1 new, cobbled together.

15 minutes ago, Justin Side said:

Neither of these are "Visas".

They are extensions of your permission to stay.

Yes, Justin, you are right. They are OA Visas granted under the conditions and requirements of the qualifications based on marriage or retirement (or guardian). They are commonly referred to, even by Thai Immigrations, as "Marriage," "Retirement," or "Guardian" visas. ????

2 minutes ago, billsmart said:

The memo is from Bangkok Immigrations dated Jan 28, 2018...

According to your documents, even if you do an extension in 2019, you still need to show 12 months of international transfers and that is no help at all.

That was just introduced and many people do not have 12 monthly transfers at this stage and many just started to transfer now when the new rule came in.

Are they all screwed? Is there no leniency for transfers that just started in 2019?

13 minutes ago, billsmart said:

The memo is from Bangkok Immigrations dated Jan 28, 2018...

 

Yep, my wife says the first page is like a transmittal letter from some headquarters Immigration guy explaining the following pages, including the following two-page Jan. 18 memo from the national police chief (35/2019) and then the attachments with the updated conditions for retirement extensions, including at least the TH version of that.

 

FWIW, I'm not reading this as one set of rules for 2019 and then changing for 2020.

 

I'm reading it as a change for 2019 that basically seem to disregard any notion of monthly foreign transfers into a Thai bank, and instead spells out the details for 3 choices:

--65K pension with Embassy income affidavit

--800K bank deposit

--combination of the two.

(which would further screw over the no more affidavit Americans, Brits, Aussies and Danes....since it would seem to leave them without any option for using the combo method).

 

So the upshot of my reading is -- have they already abandoned the notion of monthly foreign deposits into a Thai bank account?

 

 

18 minutes ago, phutoie2 said:

Just read through the PDF Bill posted and that is me totally screwed for the retirement combo method. My pension is just a small amount from the required funds and just keep a small sum in a Thai bank. Extension is due in a few weeks time, I already have the UK Embassy letter. Will not have time to get the 400K.

The IO Bill is commenting on is Phetchabun, they have only been open a few years, before that we all came under Phitsanulok. 

 

U R not screwed. Get proactive.

 

Get some one to call Imm in Bangkok, explain how this office is confused and ask them to make a call to your local immigration.

 

They will make the call, as my wife called them before about an immigration officer in my local immigration. 

 

For those that think NO ! Make the call and you will see changes. Coming from CW and they do listen. Trust me. ????

6 minutes ago, thequietman said:

So, if you are only 50, are a millionaire and are financially dependent ................ then they don't want you here!

 

Brilliant! Fantastic! You COULD NOT make this up! Classic !

 

    

I don't know where you get that BS from but it is utter nonsense.

33 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

We have been through this ad nauseum on other threads. It shows as an international transfer if your bank is the bank they used for the transfer - they use a total of 3 different Thai banks and currently seem to use Bangkok Bank far more often than the other 2. But not always, and there have been posters who report an occasional transfer to their BB account appearing as a domestic transfer.

 

If  TW uses a bank other than yours, the bank that first receives it will do a domestic transfer to your bank and that, obviously, will show as a domestic transfer.

 

I personally emailed TW about this and they informed me that they might use any of 3 Thai banks and that they cannot say (and customers cannot choose) in advance which one it will be.

 

I would be cautious about continuing to use TW for the income method of extension and assuming that because your account is with BB it will always show as FTT.  This is not guaranteed. At present it will show as FTT most of the time but sooner or later you will get a transfer or two that does not.

 

 

Here is what Transferwise replied to my enquiry about this:

 

"

Hi William,

I hope this email reaches you well.

The basis of how TransferWise operates is that we’re able to move funds internationally without the money physically crossing borders. This is achieved through a series of two domestic transfers— a domestic transfer from your account to our account and another local transfer from our account in the currency the recipient is receiving into their local account. We’re able to offer better rates and less fees to our customers by executing transfers in this manner.

Unfortunately, there is not a way that we can change the way we complete transfers since this is a fundamental part of how we operate as a company.

I’ve included additional information on how TransferWise works for you HERE.

Feel free to reach out with any additional questions.

All the best,
Wilson"

8 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Yes, Justin, you are right. They are OA Visas granted under the conditions and requirements of the qualifications based on marriage or retirement (or guardian). They are commonly referred to, even by Thai Immigrations, as "Marriage," "Retirement," or "Guardian" visas. ????

An O-A is only available from the Thai Embassy in your passport country. Rules for proof of income are a bit different.

6 minutes ago, FritsSikkink said:

I don't know where you get that BS from but it is utter nonsense.

From the Original OP. Did you not read it?

40 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

So much conflicting info, the only opinion that is going to matter is the one of the IO in front of you when you are renewing the extension, that is unpredictable at any time.

Very true. Depends on which immigration office you go to and the IO who is processing your extension.

16 minutes ago, Spidey said:

2nd page. 1st page?

 

As I posted above, my wife says the first page is a Jan. 28 transmittal letter from main Immigration (not some provincial remote office).

 

And the second and third pages are a memo from the national police chief dated Jan. 18 with a reference of 35/2019.

 

13 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Yep, my wife says the first page is like a transmittal letter from some headquarters Immigration guy explaining the following pages, including the following two-page Jan. 18 memo from the national police chief (35/2019) and then the attachments with the updated conditions for retirement extensions, including at least the TH version of that.

 

FWIW, I'm not reading this as one set of rules for 2019 and then changing for 2020.

 

I'm reading it as a change for 2019 that basically seem to disregard any notion of monthly foreign transfers into a Thai bank, and instead spells out the details for 3 choices:

--65K pension with Embassy income affidavit

--800K bank deposit

--combination of the two.

 

So the upshot of my reading is -- have they already abandoned the notion of monthly foreign deposits into a Thai bank account?

 

 

Yes! That is EXACTLY what I was told at Immigrations. BUT, they did say there was a dispensation for 2019 that would allow you to get a letter from your bank verifying 12 months of THB 65K (or 40K) international deposits. I showed them my bank book and they said that would be okay as long as I got a letter from my bank. But, what they didn't know was these deposits show as DOMESTIC transfers because I am using TRANFERWISE. I am changing that this month to use an international wire transfer to see what that shows up as. 

2 hours ago, billsmart said:

Oops! You are right, sorry. Here is the document I was given Friday...

Retirement Visa Rules 2020.pdf 640.14 kB · 38 downloads

Item 5, bank docs MUST be updated "the day of visa execution", this would have to mean the date of application, me assumes, otherwise the application would be rejected? Or, must the bank docs be updated and submitted to immigration when visa / extension is available for pick up?

3 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

As I posted above, my wife says the first page is a Jan. 28 transmittal letter from Immigration.

 

And the second and third pages are a memo from the national police chief dated Jan. 18 with a reference of 35/2019.

 

Well at least it proves that Phetchabun Immigration have some skills in "cut & paste"!

18 minutes ago, thequietman said:

So, if you are only 50, are a millionaire and are financially dependent ................ then they don't want you here!

 

Brilliant! Fantastic! You COULD NOT make this up! Classic !

 

    

I have the distinct impression a lot more things will be made up before everything is cleared up.

33 minutes ago, Thomas J said:

I vehemently disagree.  Consider it is Thailand that should seriously rethink.  It is their regulation, not the regulation of the U.S., U.K., Australia, or Denmark.  Thailand is for all intents demanding that the rest of the world be their auditors to comply with their rules.  Thai immigration already approves numerous foreign documents such as marriage, divorce, police, medical etc.  For them to get 12 monthly statements from a local thai bank or for that matter 112 statements from any foreign bank that shows a 65K baht minimum pension is a no brainer.  They just are pushing to get more foreign money into the Thai banks. 

I appreciate your point of view.  However, us Brits (on both sides of the argument) are seeing in our country what happens when two opposing views meet and no compromise is in sight.  We in the middle suffer. Likewise its no good suggesting that we expats can have any influence on Thai immigration policy. Thailand has no responsibility for us but our home countries do. If they continue to refuse to compromise with Thailand Immigration it is us that might suffer, not the two parties arguing.  One poster has suggested that this possible change is because, for individual immigration officers, checking bank statements is too onerous a task and they have passed this message upwards. They were happy with embassy letters and don't want any extra work.  15-love. Over to the embassies.      

5 minutes ago, 2tall said:

Item 5, bank docs MUST be updated "the day of visa execution", this would have to mean the date of application, me assumes, otherwise the application would be rejected? Or, must the bank docs be updated and submitted to immigration when visa / extension is available for pick up?

I asked that also and was told I had to get the letter the same day I went to Immigration to file the application for my extension. If the extension is approved, it's issued right then. A Marriage visa has to be sent somewhere to be approved - I think.

After pages of crying and speculation like can you please accept my condo as a proof of income and I'm flying to Cambodia if Thailand doesn't do as I please here comes a guy with some concrete info and not a single like.

 

Perhaps some posters would like to continue living in Lala land.

Can somebody answer the following because I am very concerned. When I did my last 90 day report at Nong Khai in December 2018 I showed them my letter dated 9th December confirming my income from the British Embassy. This income included my UK state pension. private pension and bank interest. The income and my Thai bank balance took me over the threshold of 800.000 to qualify for a retirement extension. Two officers confirmed that my letter from the embassy would be accepted the next time I renewed my extension due May the 6th and I would have no problem renewing my extension providing the balance did not fall below 800.000 baht including the income letter. However it would seem now that only state pension income is now taken into account has income when applying for a visa extension after March 1st, unless I have misunderstood the position.

10 minutes ago, billsmart said:

Yes! That is EXACTLY what I was told at Immigrations. BUT, they did say there was a dispensation for 2019 that would allow you to get a letter from your bank verifying 12 months of THB 65K (or 40K) international deposits. I showed them my bank book and they said that would be okay as long as I got a letter from my bank. But, what they didn't know was these deposits show as DOMESTIC transfers because I am using TRANFERWISE. I am changing that this month to use an international wire transfer to see what that shows up as. 

 

Interesting...

 

I had my wife re-read the Thai version of the documents you posted... And admitting she's not a great translator, she confirmed she sees nothing in the documents themselves that talks about 12 months of foreign bank to Thai bank deposits as being a qualifying method.

 

So, if they're going to allow that for 2019, she doesn't find any reference to that interim method in the documents themselves....

3 minutes ago, khastan said:

 However it would seem now that only state pension income is now taken into account has income when applying for a visa extension after March 1st, unless I have misunderstood the position.

 

I think you have to be careful about making that presumption. The Thai immigration documents often have used their TH term that gets translated into the EN term of pension. But in reality, it's always meant the broader reference to recurring income. As long as you have a valid, accepted Embassy income letter, that should be fine....

 

But again, we're in a time of Immigration rules in flux... so it's hard to have absolute guarantees.

 

2 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Interesting...

 

I had my wife re-read the Thai version of the documents you posted... And admitting she's not a great translator, she confirmed she sees nothing in the documents themselves that talks about 12 months of foreign bank to Thai bank deposits as being a qualifying method.

 

So, if they're going to allow that for 2019, she doesn't find any reference to that interim method in the documents themselves....

Yes, that's what I was told. The "get a letter from the bank verifying international deposits" was just an interim, transitional method acceptable in 2019 as a temporary dispensation.

9 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I asked that also and was told I had to get the letter the same day I went to Immigration to file the application for my extension. If the extension is approved, it's issued right then. A Marriage visa has to be sent somewhere to be approved - I think.

 

The documents you posted only appear to relate to retirement extensions, and don't seem to deal at all with marriage extensions.  But yes, our reading also was that the bank letter and bank book update both need to be the day of application.

 

1 minute ago, billsmart said:

Yes, that's what I was told. The "get a letter from the bank verifying international deposits" was just an interim, transitional method acceptable in 2019 as a temporary dispensation.

 

But a totally undocumented one??? No reference to that specifically in any of the docs you posted...

 

8 minutes ago, billsmart said:

I asked that also and was told I had to get the letter the same day I went to Immigration to file the application for my extension. If the extension is approved, it's issued right then. A Marriage visa has to be sent somewhere to be approved - I think.

Since opening Phetch have always insisted that the Bank letter is on the day you apply for your extension. If you have a Bangkok Bank account you can do it in the main BKB in the city. The staff there are aware of this and will do the letter for you. It does save going along in my case to Si Thep and getting the letter.  Not sure about the other Thai Banks, but cannot see why not.

22 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Well at least it proves that Phetchabun Immigration have some skills in "cut & paste"!

 

There's nothing in the TH language documents the OP posted that indicates they were written by Phetchabun immigration. The OP may have gotten the copies from that office. But the authors / sources of the documents are main Thai Immigration and the national police chief.

 

Actually TransferWise does show as an International transfer. I've done it and so has a friend. 2 different banks. Shows in the bank record as an international transfer.