Marriage/Retirement - Interpretations explained.

[Tanoshi]

30 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Before changing banks, get a copy of the "Credit Advice" from your last transfer and see what detail it contains. See discussion above.

I hope he has better luck than we had.

I downloaded your example of the credit advice to show exactly what he required.

[Sheryl]

11 hours ago, Kenny202 said:

Again I got to be missing something.....

Which leads me back to my original question...does the lump sump component of the combo method need to be in the bank for the full 12 months prior to your application or 3 months.

 

Tanoshi stated this before...

Seasoning still required same as funds deposited in the bank method.

Whatever amount of funds you decide on, it should be deposited 3 months before the application, unless it's your first retirement extension application, then it's only 2 months.

12 months is annual, 11 months is not.

 

Sorry, not trying to score points here just get clarity

 

It is quite clear that, when you do your second extension under these new rules (second since the new rules come into effect, i.e. 2020 for most people) the lump sum component has to have been there for the full 12 months. This method does not get you out of the need to park money in a Thai bank.

 

What is not clear is how long it has to have been in there before the first time you do the extension under the new rules. (First time since new rules came int effect, not first extension ever). I think it is 3 months but perhaps @Tanoshi could confirm?

[Tanoshi]

1 hour ago, poohy said:

People using 800K method and spending it its now gone up to 1.2 Million because of 400 k dead money

I don't understand your reasoning behind that statement.

You still only need 800K and you must be receiving a monthly income to top up what you spend.

It's just a case of a change in financial management, your no worse off.

[Monomial]

39 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

 The transfer to them originated from a domestic commercial bank. How would they know  where that bank received the money from?  Are you saying that the domestic transfer will have contained the information on the money's prior origins? (If so, the whole problem is solved, people can use TW with confidence and no need for those banking elsewhere to change to BB in hopes that all their transfers will be coded FTT).

 

It would be good if someone using a TW and a bank other than BB would get a copy of a Credit Advice to see what info exactly it contains.

That is exactly what I am stating. By law, they need to know where the money is coming from. If not, it is a big money laundering problem. The routing it takes to get to the bank is irrelevant. It can come from a domestic transfer at Bangkok Bank or an overseas correspondent bank via SWIFT. Either way, the information on each and every transfer must be tracked and sent to every bank along the way, and it should show up on the credit advice. They can not group money into a single "received from Bangkok Bank intermediary account" and pretend it appeared out of nowhere. They must know who initiated it in order to meet money laundering requirements.

 

[Expattaff1308]

Thanks for the interpretation of the new rules it's much appreciated, however I'm still at a loss how this will do away with the agents as Big Joke suggests is the reasoning behind the tightening up of the rules, as Bank letters, statements as before are still to be used are still open to abuse by those who used them in the past.

I cannot understand why he didn't make all applications to be done in person (no agents) except for those bed ridden or hospitalised and then to support the claim with a Dr's note to be followed up with a visit from a Senior Immigration Officer.

Edited February 12, 2019 by Expattaff1308

[Tanoshi]

8 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

What is not clear is how long it has to have been in there before the first time you do the extension under the new rules. (First time since new rules came int effect, not first extension ever). I think it is 3 months but perhaps @Tanoshi could confirm?

A first time application for an extension of any kind would be from an Non Imm O Visa.

It's then 2 months prior to application.

Thereafter it would be 3 months prior to application.

Changing the reason of the extension application, doesn't alter the fact it isn't your first extension application.

 

As I've previously stated the new order 35/2562 hasn't replaced the older order of 327/2557, it's an addition to the existing order effective March 1st. 

The existing order stated 60 days for 1st time extension applicants (from March 1st, that becomes 2 months), subsequent extension applications 3 months prior to applications, remain the same.

Quote

(4) On the filing date, the applicant must have funds deposited in a bank in Thailand of no
less than Baht 800,000 for the past three months. For the first year only, the applicant must
have proof of a deposit account in which said amount of funds has been maintained for no
less than 60 days prior to the filing date: or

The major alteration is the seasoning period after the extension is granted.

 

I assume BJ sat with a copy of existing orders on his left hand side, making notes to amend certain conditions on his right hand side, then instead of rewriting the whole order afresh, he just wrote up the notes and called it order 35/2562.

If his intention was to amend and clarify certain changes, from a foreigners point of view it's caused confusion.

Some IO's are probably still confused, but the information I was given bore no confusion as to how it should now be interpreted.

[Thaidream]

44 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

I don't understand your reasoning behind that statement.

You still only need 800K and you must be receiving a monthly income to top up what you spend.

It's just a case of a change in financial management, your no worse off

IMO- a transfer of 65K per month is much  easier than having to place funds in a Thai bank (unless 400K for Marriage)  There is no seasoning requirements- there is no locking up 400K and there is no need to bring extra funds into the country  to live on while seasoning goes on.  However- the ease ceases when one goes for the extension.

 

My major complaint remains that I can get 65K per month (I do it every month) from the ATM outside my Thai bank- keep it in my pocket - do it every month and simply show 2 pieces of paper to Thai Immigration verifying my income backed up by my US Bank account which clearly shows the same debits and the exact location of the Thai ATM machine. Absolute proof it comes from abroad.

Thai Immigration has come up with plans that are more cumbersome- will cause IOs  longer to evaluate an extension and be no further ahead in verifying  income. 

Under their plan- I present  a bank statement showing 12 months of transfers- they need to add up each months transfer to make sure  each month the figure is 65K.   Then they need to total all the months to make sure the total jibes with the monthly figures.

Now- if they want to make sure it is foreign sourced- one has to present at least 12 Credit Advice. They have to check the date of each advice- then cross reference it with the amount.

 

As I said, i can show a few sheets of paper and a US Bank Statement that  provides everything they need and takes a few minutes to comprehend rather than the needless amounts of paper they will need to  go over using the transfer method.

 

They have also made the money in the bank situation much worse than it needs to be- the Io's will have to watch  dates of  deposits; then make sure the balance never drops below 400K- 

 

The Combo method creates even more paperwork to scrutinize and for the applicant to watch as far as dates and amounts are concerned.

 

While all is workable and can be done- they have created a system that adds significant burdens to retirees/others and to IO's who try and muddle through all the paper.

 

Up until know- my retirement has been peaceful and without stress. Instead- it is now being turned into  a clock watcher for making  on time transfers; a predictor of the ever changing exchange rate; making sure my bankbook is coded correctly; make sure the amounts post correctly; getting credit advice etc. Then the annual trek to Immigration- hoping that i didn't make a mistake or that the IO is from an office that actually goes by the real rules and not make up their own.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 12, 2019 by Thaidream

[ace000]

Guys can you help me , my retirement visa expired while o/s I knew this was going to happen so I visited the emigration office Bangkok and advice then of my predicament. They told that on my return to Thailand , I should first go a Thai embassy at my visiting country and come back in on a Tourist Visa , that what did no worries getting back in last week. My question is now that 800k , will they want to see a fresh 800k from Australia or will the originally Australian 800k from Australia suffice . Also can you confirm the system of 800k has not changed except for the 400k having to now stay permanently in the Thai account.


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[jacko45k]

5 minutes ago, ace000 said:

Guys can you help me , my retirement visa expired while o/s I knew this was going to happen so I visited the emigration office Bangkok and advice then of my predicament. They told that on my return to Thailand , I should first go a Thai embassy at my visiting country and come back in on a Tourist Visa , that what did no worries getting back in last week. My question is now that 800k , will they want to see a fresh 800k from Australia or will the originally Australian 800k from Australia suffice . Also can you confirm the system of 800k has not changed except for the 400k having to now stay permanently in the Thai account.


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Can you prove that original 800k was brought into Thailand? If so likely they will accept it. Otherwise all is same to convert your tourist entry into a non-Imm-O. Providing you use an office that is accepting of it. (Some try to be difficult, purely to get you to use an agent, or do similar 'directly')

 

[Tanoshi]

10 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

Under their plan- I present  a bank statement showing 12 months of transfers- they need to add up each months transfer to make sure  each month the figure is 65K.   Then they need to total all the months to make sure the total jibes with the monthly figures.

No, they don't! It's 65K per month, not an average of 12 months.

 

They had 12 monthly bank statements, two foreign transactions on each page covering the month.

Very easily identified as the only income he was receiving.

1 + 2 = above 65K, next page and so on.

Took them 3 minutes to assess his monthly incomes met the requirements.

[Sheryl]

21 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

A first time application for an extension of any kind would be from an Non Imm O Visa.

It's then 2 months prior to application.

Thereafter it would be 3 months prior to application.

 

I wasn't asking about first extension but about first time extending under these new rules.  The 2019 extension for most people.

 

People using the combo method were nto previously required to maintain the lump sum balance in the bank for the whole year. Am I correct to assume that someone applying for extension with this method now, in 2019, will only have had to have the lump sum seasoned for 3 months i.e. the whole year requirement will not be retroactively applied but rather start with the first extension made post 1 March??

[Tanoshi]

18 minutes ago, ace000 said:

Guys can you help me , my retirement visa expired while o/s I knew this was going to happen so I visited the emigration office Bangkok and advice then of my predicament. They told that on my return to Thailand , I should first go a Thai embassy at my visiting country and come back in on a Tourist Visa , that what did no worries getting back in last week. My question is now that 800k , will they want to see a fresh 800k from Australia or will the originally Australian 800k from Australia suffice .

I seriously doubt you'll have an issue with the existing 800K.

It's not your first extension, they have a record of your previous extensions.

Provided your 800K has been on deposit in a Thai bank for 3 months, I don't foresee an issue.

 

22 minutes ago, ace000 said:

Also can you confirm the system of 800k has not changed except for the 400k having to now stay permanently in the Thai account. 

Confirmed.

[Sheryl]

20 minutes ago, ace000 said:

Guys can you help me , my retirement visa expired while o/s I knew this was going to happen so I visited the emigration office Bangkok and advice then of my predicament. They told that on my return to Thailand , I should first go a Thai embassy at my visiting country and come back in on a Tourist Visa , that what did no worries getting back in last week. My question is now that 800k , will they want to see a fresh 800k from Australia or will the originally Australian 800k from Australia suffice . Also can you confirm the system of 800k has not changed except for the 400k having to now stay permanently in the Thai account.


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That and the 800 has to remain for 3 months after the extension is granted. So basically you have to keep balance of not less than 800k 6 monthso f the year and 400k the other 6 months.

 

Probably better to just make that 800K  year round unless some unforeseen emergency expense  arises.  If you move out the 400K after the 3 months are up you will only have to put it back again 6 months later. The opportunity costs of having 400K in a Thai bank vs otherwise  invested aren't going to be much with only  a 6 month time period in which to do so and you'd incur 2 extra transfer and currency exchange costs. Plus have to be sure to remember when to put the money back in. Likely much more trouble than it is worth.

[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

It's not your first extension, they have a record of your previous extensions.

He cannot do an extension directly on a Tourist Visa.

[Tanoshi]

11 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

People using the combo method were nto previously required to maintain the lump sum balance in the bank for the whole year.

No they weren't. There was nothing in the order to prevent them withdrawing on the funds deposited throughout the year.

 

14 minutes ago, Sheryl said:

Am I correct to assume that someone applying for extension with this method now, in 2019, will only have had to have the lump sum seasoned for 3 months i.e. the whole year requirement will not be retroactively applied but rather start with the first extension made post 1 March??

My understanding is that they will be looking that you meet the requirements after March 1st 2019, but will show leniency if there is an issue, on a case by case basis, so there is no definitive answer.

From 2020 you'll have to meet the full requirements, no leniency afforded.

[Tanoshi]

13 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

He cannot do an extension directly on a Tourist Visa.

He does a change in Visa status to a Non O as a prelude to obtaining his extension.

He still has to prove the 800K deposited in a Thai bank to obtain the Non O.

[jacko45k]

Just now, Tanoshi said:

He does a change in Visa status to a Non O as a prelude to obtaining his extension.

He still has to prove the 800K deposited in a Thai bank to obtain the Non O.

Yes, from outside Thailand.

[wobalt]

Honestly-What is the benefit of an extension over a 1 y visa


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[jacko45k]

4 minutes ago, wobalt said:

Honestly-What is the benefit of an extension over a 1 y visa


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You mean a Non-Imm OA?

Extensions easier to get, you get them in Thailand not home country.

[ace000]

Yes , I would think the bank would still have that data as would emigration, so I shell approach the first .Thanks for the reply mate.



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[Tanoshi]

7 minutes ago, jacko45k said:

Yes, from outside Thailand.

It's already in Thailand and the IO already have evidence from his previous extensions.

I doubt they would have advised him to get a TV if they had an issue with his 800K in the Thai bank which there already fully aware of.

 

There obviously using their discretion of powers to ignore the proof of overseas transfer of 800K for the Non O conversion in his circumstances.

[Thailand]

If agents can get around these  latest change in requirements then they will probably deserve their fees-provided they are not too extortionate.

As it stands looks like a huge loss in income for them and their associates in uniform.

[wobalt]

You mean a Non-Imm OA?
Extensions easier to get, you get them in Thailand not home country.

Basically i mean non o for marriage


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[Thaidream]

35 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

No, they don't! It's 65K per month, not an average of 12 months.

 

They had 12 monthly bank statements, two foreign transactions on each page covering the month.

Very easily identified as the only income he was receiving.

1 + 2 = above 65K, next page and so on.

Took them 3 minutes to assess his monthly incomes met the requirements.

I still doubt that the average IO will be able to take 12 pieces of paper (bank statement)  and identify the transfers- add each month  and also identify the coding as foreign sourced all in 3 minutes.   If the applicant used Transfer wise- they also need to  show 12 Credit Advice that have to  be reviewed.

 

IMO-  the IO s will eventually not even worry about  the money being foreign sourced which to me would make sense since they don't care where I get the 800K  if I use the bank method. Much easier to pull 65K out of a Thai ATM and deposit it in a Thai bank without all the rigmarole of having to call my US bank each month for a  transfer. Transfer wise situation still not cleared up in my mind and no one knows how pedantic some offices will be.

 

Remember- you were talking to Senior people at a headquarters very familiar with what they want to happen.  Let's see it in action- everywhere at each Thai Imm office handled by IO's-each applying the same rule in the same manner.

 

I hope it works as smoothly as you say and each office handles it the same way. Time will tell 

[wobalt]

Basically i mean non o for marriage


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Question is for what I need an extension -what are the benefits (beside no need to leave the country after 90 days)


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[Tanoshi]

5 minutes ago, Thaidream said:

I still doubt that the average IO will be able to take 12 pieces of paper (bank statement)  and identify the transfers- add each month  and also identify the coding as foreign sourced all in 3 minutes.

Very easily identified on a statement from the banks HQ.

Other than your foreign income, how many others transfers do you have in the deposits section of your bank accounts.

1/2/3 foreign transaction per month in the deposit section of your bank statement makes it hard work for the IO to calculate the months income ……. seriously.

[Tanoshi]

1 minute ago, wobalt said:

Question is for what I need an extension -what are the benefits (beside no need to leave the country after 90 days)


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1. Cost

2. Not worrying about being sick, missing that border run and going into overstay.

3. Time

[wobalt]

1. Cost
2. Not worrying about being sick, missing that border run and going into overstay.
3. Time

So these are very „soft“ reasons.
Disadvantages:
1. need money in bank or transfer methods
2. 90 days reports
3 maps, pictures,visits,tm 30s
4. deal with Immigration officers


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[Thaidream]

17 minutes ago, Tanoshi said:

Very easily identified on a statement from the banks HQ.

Other than your foreign income, how many others transfers do you have in the deposits section of your bank accounts.

1/2/3 foreign transaction per month in the deposit section of your bank statement makes it hard work for the IO to calculate the months income ……. seriously

Agreed-  I will only have 1 each month so should be easy-  I am hoping the  Transfer shows FTT or Bahtnet which makes it more easy.  Time will tell....  Good work by you- Many Thanks.

[phuketrichard]

already in Pattaya agents are offering to do the extension,  cost 15,000 Baht more than last year ( last year apx 22,000 include the extension and 1 year multi re entry).. so its now 37,000 baht
so much for shutting down corruption of immigration and ........LOL