Why, after 9 months, Retired in Thailand, I left and am back in the USA?

[stevew407]

9 hours ago, GinBoy2 said:

You can go around and around on these threads.

 

My wife is Thai we met and for 12 years lived in Singapore. Wise women, told me I'd tire of the place within 10 years, got it wrong by 11 months

 

We moved back to the US, nearly 2 years ago now, but we still do the snowbird thing to our house in Khon Kaen.

 

That dual location thing seems to be an increasing option for many retirees. 

 

I've said this before in many threads, but over the past 10 years the cost advantage of being in Thailand pretty much evaporated for me at least.

 

Now we have a holiday home which is perfect

Yep - like many things in or on the web too.  We are similar in age and you talked about a "Dave" - I have a friend or ex-friend that comes here and other places often, so your comments about helping me with a visa are appreciated and now have ESCALATED.  So any help in getting a VISA is appreciated.  We are in Buenos Aires and leaving on the 27th for a cruise. The latest and greatest idea is to extend that cruise and do two back to backs. While waiting for a USA Visa for my Thai wife guessing that like the recent denial for her to leave Thailand will escalate costs as all of this just seems to be government taxing schemes or control tactics? Or differences in opinion as the USA border delimeas are newsworthy daily or not?  So writing back and a bit lost in cyberspace but I am easily out there and avaialble. Do not want to do anything wrong but that old ignorance of the law is no excuse bounces around in my head and do not want to spend all my time doing research etc etc etc .........find this forum useful, but a lot of BS and other internet stuff at times too............so peace, love, happiness and understanding.  We can go private or stay public, I just want to like the old Dale Carnegie course deal with people that get it done!!!  And comes from the heart.........I really love my Thai wife, never thought I would be here and now but would love to get to San Diego and clean up some messes and you decided to stay in the USA it seems, but still travel is that right?  We might do it a bit different..........

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, Odysseus123 said:

Captain Jack,

 

Thank you for pointing out about how Thai women (and others) are objectified..

 

I never had any problems with Thai immigration (very kind) and my wife was of great assistance in getting me home-a very touch and go medical scenario...

 

In return I applied for her to join me in my own country.The process went as smooth as silk (5 months) and she had her Medicare and Tax File Number within two weeks of arrival.There appears to be no stopping her now..????

 

You made the decision which is right for you-as I did.Well done.

You are in Australia and Jack in America?

[Destiny1990]

Who says u have to retire in a country  for the rest of ur life?

Check out Panama Vietnam Phillipines etc much more interesting rotating Countries then staying  20 years in Kong Khaeng for example in some back street appartment.

[newnative]

     Fellow American here, 67 years old.  My Thai partner and I came to Thailand in 2010 when he had to leave the US with visa issues.  I was recently retired and we lived on my small pension--which at that time barely met the 65,000 baht requirement.  We didn't have 800,000 to go the funds-in-the-bank route then.

    My retirement pension definitely went farther here than it would have in the US, and I think that is very much still the case. I now have social security, as well, so our monthly income is higher than it was.  

     I have hospitalization medical insurance with April International, a Paris company that caters to expats; they have a Bangkok office.  I pay 873 Euros every 3 months; my last payment was around $1000 with the exchange rate then.  So, around $333 a month.  I dropped the outpatient coverage to save money as my outpatient charges have mostly been so small I usually didn't bother to even claim them.

     In 9 years I've never had any immigration problems, never been stopped by a cop, really never been hassled in any way by anyone.  A couple years ago I switched to the 800,00 baht in the bank to do my yearly retirement extension--just got tired of doing the Embassy income verification thing every year.  The account earns 1.8% interest and I just leave the money in the account.  So far, the visa changes haven't made any difference to me, although I know they have for some.

     For the most part I am enjoying living  in Pattaya, with a getaway condo in Bangkok.  However, I will be the first to admit that I would not be in Thailand, it would not even be on my radar, without my Thai spouse.  If he was out of the picture I would likely move back to the US, at least for part of the year.

     Strangely, although some come to Thailand and manage to lose some or all their money, for us it has been the opposite.  We arrived poor as church mice.  But, over the 9 years we flipped and sold 16 condos and we've thrived.  If we wanted, we could now afford to live in the US, although likely not as well as here.  

[Spock]

2 hours ago, ozmeldo said:

Thanks for the post. I wish you luck.

 

I'm once again reconsidering staying on past 62 (65). Ridiculously priced insurance, pre existing conditions (blood pressure me, wife cholesterol).

 

Medicare despite it's issues.

Wife is young enough to work.

 

Horrible value for some crap box where? Chaing Mai? Phuket? Bangkok? 5 million baht steps to ocean in Florida and half dozen other states.

 

31.2 to USD. As long as Thailand has unstable military govt, they will keep the thb strong.

 

Military government forever.

 

No PR, no citizenship despite being married ten years.

 

Pollution in BKK, CM. Will never change, only worsen.

 

Yeah, I'm back on Zillow again.

 

Good luck there buddy.

 

Consider yourself lucky that you are American, that your Medicare gives you some overseas discount on medical treatment and that your dollar fetches 31+ baht. If you are Australian, your medical insurance, free or private, covers nothing overseas and th Australian dollar, only 5 years ago worth 35 baht, now fetches just above 22. Plus an Australian pension will only give you about 42000 baht a month - if you are able to access it overseas. Personally, I would much rather be in your situation than mine.

Edited February 17, 2019 by Spock

[Artisi]

30 minutes ago, Spock said:

Consider yourself lucky that you are American, that your Medicare gives you some overseas discount on medical treatment and that your dollar fetches 31+ baht. If you are Australian, your medical insurance, free or private, covers nothing overseas and th Australian dollar, only 5 years ago worth 35 baht, now fetches just above 22. Plus an Australian pension will only give you about 42000 baht a month - if you are able to access it overseas. Personally, I would much rather be in your situation than mine.

Hang in there, the fictitious 22 rate can't last forever, although I intend asking immigration if my B400 000 I currently keep for extension can be converted to $A in a fixed foreign Thai account - might as well make some use of this low Bht - $A to my benefit for a change.

[Sheryl]

US Medicare does not give a discount on overrseas care.

It contributes nothing at all to care received outside the US. You're on your own for that.

Can only be used in the US.

And there are not insignificant copays and deductibles, especially if hospitalization is prolonged.

You have to pay a monthly premium for outpatient cover and medication cover, about USD 170/month for the two. This is aside from the copays and deductible.

So far from free care.

The only respect in which it is advantageous compared to Oz or UK is that the cover is not compromised if you live overseas. Dosn't matter if you live abroad nor for how long, as long as you can manage to travel back to the US for care, you are covered.



Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[wreckingcountry]

Who says u have to retire in a country  for the rest of ur life?
Check out Panama Vietnam Phillipines etc much more interesting rotating Countries then staying  20 years in Kong Khaeng for example in some back street appartment.

Kong Khaeng?


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[NoshowJones]

Excellent post Captain Jack, everything you have said is true and I wish you all the best.

 

There is a certain element among the Thaivisa members who need to read your post and try and understand it, yes, believe it or not, there are members who actually believe the Thai government is fair to us.

 

[villagefarang]

Their game, their rules...fair has nothing to do with it.

[crazykopite]

Good to see someone who is honest enough without spewing verbal diarrhoea. I believe that there are a lot more like you but won’t own up to it . I agree with everything you have said I to am considering upping sticks as each year the requirements become more of a pain and for some of us enough is enough ☹️

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, possum1931 said:

Excellent post Captain Jack, everything you have said is true and I wish you all the best.

 

There is a certain element among the Thaivisa members who need to read your post and try and understand it, yes, believe it or not, there are members who actually believe the Thai government is fair to us.

 

Jack and I have similar backgrounds.  Same military background.  I retired to Thailand 20 years before Jack and have enjoyed those 20 years.  Through a twist of fate my insurance here is covered - disability.  I was also lucky that I got out of Bangkok after a year and CM after 3 and found safer saner pastures.  I was also lucky to get rid of numerous women and find a good one - just luck nothing smart on my part - right place right time.  Karma?  No, I'm not that silly.  

 

I don't think the government is fair.  I didn't think my father and mother and the Pope have been fair to me.   The only sentient being that is consistently fair to me is my soi dog.  

 

I guess it depends on what you expect.  I woke up after my first major operation in a Thai Navy hospital and said, "Wow, I'm alive - didn't see that coming."

[CaptainJack]

Hi,

 

It's 4am here in Austin. The jet lag really has kicked my rear this time.  Woke up and decided to write a little. Can I ask for those so inclined to cut me some slack on this post please? If you can't,  so be it.

 

Since I started this topic, I should stay with it.  A matter of some self respect here.

 

Ok, look, I made some mistakes.   I know that.  Some other background on me.  I'm also a retired police officer.   I took early retirement after 12 years with a big metropolitan department after one of my partners was murdered and I could not get to his location in time and a rookie of mine was murdered only a few months later.   Between Vietnam and law enforcemen, I had all the death I could take.  I continued in the reserve flying search and rescue and went to work for DoD.  My total pensions are not bad.

 

I messed up and married a couple of western gold diggers and they cleaned out most my savings.   I have a history of picking the wrong women.   That's why my savings is blown.

 

So, I'm a pretty tough guy.  I hooked up with 8 other retirees,  some police and some Vietnam veterans and in 2016 trekked to the Mt. Everest Base Camp in Nepal.   It about killed me, but I did it.

 

I'm not one to give up easily, but in all honesty   I'm just tired.  The whole deal with retiring to Thailand just wore me out. I think I had this illusion I'd come to Thailand,  get my retirement visa and just relax and chill.  It just did not hold that way.

 

One person asked me about being stopped by immigration police?  When that happened,  I asked the officer that spoke excellent English what was going on.  There were about 8 of them, they had wireless notebook computers and he told me they have teams that will setup around Bangkok at known farrang apartmen and start checking for Visa violations.   I doubt he just made that up, but if no one else has experienced that, maybe I just had bad luck that morning.  Bottom line, it did not leave me with a warm and fuzzy.  

 

My next experience was when I went for my first 90 day report.  The female IO asked me where my TM30 was.  I did not even know what a TM30 was.  So she starts in on how my visa can be revoked because I have not had my landlord file a TM30 for me when I rented my first apartment in Bangkok.   The IO gave be a bunch of forms, told me to get my landlord to fill them out and come back the next day with them all completed and bring a 5,000 baht fine, or I'd be in trouble.  This is not what I considered relaxing. 

 

I called my landlord,  she said she never heard of a TM30 before, but met me and filled out the paperwork, only gave me half if the fine  and I'm back at immigration again.  It's not an easy deal to get from from where I lived up to the immigration offices.

 

I knew no one in Bangkok except a few people, and none of this was sitting very well for me.  I did not know about TV yet. 

 

So I get through all that, and then I start to read about the changes.   In all honesty,  this is not what I signed up for.  My bad, I got it. But with all that, I still met my girlfriend.  OMG.  I have never been treated with so much affection and love by a western woman.   If not for her, I think I would have said enough,  and gone somewhere else. So  as I have admitted.  I missed some important items, the big one medical insurance.   Regardless of what one thing finally pushed me to say, I'm done, I need a break, reconsider my decisions, learn from them and move forward.   One thing I have appreciated from all who have written,  is if I want to live as an expatriate somewhere for sometime, I am wiser to be only 8 or 9 hours away by air then 30 or 40 hours away if I needed USA medical care.  

 

The other is perhaps I'll continue my travels,  I do have all the logistics now in place, but unless another reason comes up, just plan to finish out in the USA.   A small cabin in the mountains sounds pretty good. 

 

One other person asked me to please let everyone know what I decide.   I will do that.  I've only been back for less then 48 hours  so rest and and getting clear on all this is important. 

 

That's it.  I'll make some decisions in the next week, and in a month  I'll have a new plan.  I do know this much.  On the risk analysis, I won't be coming back to Thailand,  except as a tourist.   I don't think it is right for me.

 

Once again, good luck and best to you all.  I'll drop in on the forum in a few weeks and give an update.   Cheers everyone..

 

Captain Jack

Edited February 17, 2019 by CaptainJack
Misspell

[CharlieH]

flame post removed.

[CMNightRider]

13 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

Well, this is exactly what I expected.  A crude reply with assumptions that have no basis in my real experience.   Enjoy your life.  I'm going to have mine, do what is best for me and be happy I took the time to write something positive.  Bye bye.

This guys negative comment didn't surprise me.  There are about a half a dozen of these guys sitting in their underwear at their computers gloating over the fact they deposited 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.  Evidently, they think any expat unable or unwilling to abide by this latest hurdle immigration set up for expats is grouped as the bad expats, and they are the good expats.  

 

Some of these people will get caught up in the next hurdle or goal post move immigration sets up.  Then it will be their turn trying to figure out where they will be going.  Immigration has taken it on themselves to purge Thailand of as many western expats as they can, and exploit those remaining.  

 

You are doing right by leaving Thailand.  Good luck to you on the move. ????

[CaptainJack]

1 minute ago, CMNightRider said:

This guys negative comment didn't surprise me.  There are about a half a dozen of these guys sitting in their underwear at their computers gloating over the fact they deposited 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.  Evidently, they think any expat unable or unwilling to abide by this latest hurdle immigration set up for expats is grouped as the bad expats, and they are the good expats.  

 

Some of these people will get caught up in the next hurdle or goal post move immigration sets up.  Then it will be their turn trying to figure out where they will be going.  Immigration has taken it on themselves to purge Thailand of as many western expats as they can, and exploit those remaining.  

 

You are doing right by leaving Thailand.  Good luck to you on the move. ????

Thank you and I agree. I will say I don't wish anyone, even those that gloat and enjoy putting others down, to suffer under changes to immigration policies that force them through what will be 10 times worse then what I have experienced.   Maybe some will understand, being uncaring and mean has a tendency to come back on one.  I'll check in later and update y'all.   Oh, thank you again. I think being able to write about this has really helped. 

 

Cheers....

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

This guys negative comment didn't surprise me.  There are about a half a dozen of these guys sitting in their underwear at their computers gloating over the fact they deposited 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.  Evidently, they think any expat unable or unwilling to abide by this latest hurdle immigration set up for expats is grouped as the bad expats, and they are the good expats.  

 

Some of these people will get caught up in the next hurdle or goal post move immigration sets up.  Then it will be their turn trying to figure out where they will be going.  Immigration has taken it on themselves to purge Thailand of as many western expats as they can, and exploit those remaining.  

 

You are doing right by leaving Thailand.  Good luck to you on the move. ????

As it effects retired persons, one change in 20 years is hardly a purge.  Your negative comments didn't surprise me. There are about a half a dozen of these guys sitting in their underwear at their computers crying over the fact they could not deposit 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

 

Moving to another country is never cheap or easy.  Good luck on your life wherever you go. ????

[poka513]

Here is another retirement choice to consider: Cuenca, Ecuador.

 

I have lived 4.5 years in Chiang Mai based on Retirement, but may

change to Marriage this year (due mid-July).

 

Before moving to Thailand, I considered Lake Chapala, Mexico.

There is a large American Legion Post there.

 

Thanks for sharing your story CaptainJack, best wishes going forward.

[AlexRich]

My personal preference is to enter and leave Thailand on a legitimate tourist visa, and move around other countries before returning by the same means. So I avoid immigration visas and I don’t have to deposit money or own assets in Thailand. The gaps in stays keep me off the radar of immigration. I keep a low profile whilst in Thailand, keep away from illegal activities or trouble spots, and avoid any obvious rip-offs and scams. If I were unlucky enough to have a serious medical issue I can cover it with my own funds. 

 

My objective is to take advantage of the many pluses of Thailand and avoid the bulk of the negatives. I realise that’s not for everyone but is possibly the least risky option.

 

 

 

 

[TheThai]

I can tell you Panama has gotten expensive if you are considering Panama city or any place nearby.  If you go further away, you have the medical issue of finding quality health care providers.  Costa Rica is affordable and has good Health care services.  I have friends in Mexico, and everywhere has a bit of danger since the drug cartels have been feuding.  Ecuador, has been at the top of "best places to retire" for a few years now.  I hope you find somewhere that suites your needs.  There are plenty of places and a place for everyone. 

[GinBoy2]

6 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

How many times is enough. I'm counting you have said it at least 100 times so far.

Details are never your strong point LOL

[ancharee]

14 hours ago, CaptainJack said:

Indeed. I hope that something can be done about the health insurance issue, regardless of Thai immigration laws.   The costs of comparable insurance as I have totally destroyed my financial planning.

 

I'm really healthy,  but have a couple of preexisting conditions that if not covered by insurance if I needed medical care, even in Thailand would bankrupt me. That is just too big a risk for me to take.

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply. 

 

Good luck...

Good luck to you CaptainJack, you served you country I wish you well, I'm Scottish but did a tour with the 101st in Fort Campbell

[Spock]

2 hours ago, Sheryl said:

US Medicare does not give a discount on overrseas care.

It contributes nothing at all to care received outside the US. You're on your own for that.

Can only be used in the US.

And there are not insignificant copays and deductibles, especially if hospitalization is prolonged.

You have to pay a monthly premium for outpatient cover and medication cover, about USD 170/month for the two. This is aside from the copays and deductible.

So far from free care.

The only respect in which it is advantageous compared to Oz or UK is that the cover is not compromised if you live overseas. Dosn't matter if you live abroad nor for how long, as long as you can manage to travel back to the US for care, you are covered.



Sent from my SM-J701F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Sorry I obviously misread it. On reflection I think the poster was talking about a private USA medical cover which returned a percentage of overseas medical bills. The fact that you are covered and not wiped from the system for living abroad is certainly a bonus.

[Spock]

1 hour ago, CaptainJack said:

Thank you and I agree. I will say I don't wish anyone, even those that gloat and enjoy putting others down, to suffer under changes to immigration policies that force them through what will be 10 times worse then what I have experienced.   Maybe some will understand, being uncaring and mean has a tendency to come back on one.  I'll check in later and update y'all.   Oh, thank you again. I think being able to write about this has really helped. 

 

Cheers....

Top respect for your honesty and the fluid style and content that was a pleasure to the senses to read. You provoked thought and raised issues to which many can relate. Retiring to foreign shores at 65 is not as smooth to negotiate as I had imagined.

[rumak]

6 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Don't know about you but 3 ex wives and the anti male courts burned my bridges.  I would not have given three houses to women I didn't like on my own!  Not burning your bridges is a nice common sense sentiment that not all of us have a choice about. 

let me first say i almost always agree with the gist of your posts.

 

as for the 3 wives, however....... i did learn my lesson after one.   On gf number 5 now , think the odds finally paid off (and my bank acct. is still intact ) 

Edited February 17, 2019 by rumak

[marcusarelus]

20 minutes ago, rumak said:

let me first say i almost always agree with the gist of your posts.

 

as for the 3 wives, however....... i did learn my lesson after one.   On gf number 5 now , think the odds finally paid off (and my bank acct. is still intact ) 

I felt sorry for them.  Were they my kids?  I don't know.  If I had stayed in Thailand or had a vasectomy in the 1960's it may have been a smarter move.  Hindsight is always 20/20. 

Edited February 17, 2019 by marcusarelus

[CMNightRider]

3 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

As it effects retired persons, one change in 20 years is hardly a purge.  Your negative comments didn't surprise me. There are about a half a dozen of these guys sitting in their underwear at their computers crying over the fact they could not deposit 800,000 baht in a Thai bank.

 

Moving to another country is never cheap or easy.  Good luck on your life wherever you go. ????

Lol, there are a lot of expats living here who can easily deposit 800,000 baht in a Thai bank but are not buying into this nonsense.  According to two recent polls there are 30% to 49% who are leaving Thailand within this year.  

 

Some are leaving because they do fall short of the funds to abide by this financial hurdle, and many others are tired of immigrations nonsensical requirements and immigrations most recent financial requirement.  

 

No one is shedding tears over leaving.  ????

[madmen]

21 minutes ago, CMNightRider said:

Lol, there are a lot of expats living here who can easily deposit 800,000 baht in a Thai bank but are not buying into this nonsense.  According to two recent polls there are 30% to 49% who are leaving Thailand within this year.  

 

Some are leaving because they do fall short of the funds to abide by this financial hurdle, and many others are tired of immigrations nonsensical requirements and immigrations most recent financial requirement.  

 

No one is shedding tears over leaving.  ????

erm no. 6% leaving for sure . 76% staying for sure and the balance undecided

 

your in lala land why would half of all expats leave behind their partners, families , investments all because they need to season 800k for another 2 months and then season  a measly 400k for another 7 months. They already have the money lol

 

lets get real those that fiddled the system and there were many telling porkies got caught with their pants down and now of course its Thailand fault. Those losers never had the 800k to start with ! they had there fun in the sun and party is over , time to go home

Edited February 17, 2019 by madmen

[AlexRich]

6 hours ago, madmen said:

erm no. 6% leaving for sure . 76% staying for sure and the balance undecided

 

your in lala land why would half of all expats leave behind their partners, families , investments all because they need to season 800k for another 2 months and then season  a measly 400k for another 7 months. They already have the money lol

 

lets get real those that fiddled the system and there were many telling porkies got caught with their pants down and now of course its Thailand fault. Those losers never had the 800k to start with ! they had there fun in the sun and party is over , time to go home

 

What's with the glee at people leaving their home? Whether someone bent the rules or not makes no frigging difference to your life. 

 

[DonnyS]

22 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

I have a background in risk management as well and before moving here I researched Thailand for close to a decade. Strong points: language study, estimating cost of living, trying to understand the culture. Weak points: reading Thai behavior, detecting the difference between a diamond and cubic zirconia gleam in a girl's eye, and understanding the socio-economic composition of the expat community.  I'm just saying, no amount of preparation will prepare you 100% for taking the plunge and I wouldn't beat myself up too much in the 'what-I-know-now-but-didn't-know-then' department.

Wow!