UK's Labour says it will back call for second Brexit referendum

[RuamRudy]

5 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Scotland recently  voted to remain in the UK , with its Parliament in Westminster and Northern Irish prefer Westminister to Dublin  

Taking into account the importance of sovereignty that so many Brexiteers refer to when explaining why they back leaving the EU, why do you suppose that this same notion would not be one felt by Scots and Irish? Why do you think that they would prefer that their larger, neighbouring country called all the shots?

[rixalex]

21 hours ago, Spidey said:

Firstly, your ears are closed. You are blinkered. EU = good. Brexit = bad.

 

Just as all Brexiteers ears are closed and they are blinkered. Brexit=good, EU=bad.

Well at least you admit being blinkered. Accepting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

[rixalex]

21 hours ago, Spidey said:

Secondly, they were asked whether they wanted to leave or remain in the EU. They replied that they wanted to leave. They don't have to justify their decision to you or anyone.

 

Or themselves as it's pretty impossible to justify. Probably why brexiteers never answer that question, just deflect by attacking remainers when asked the question.

When have you been attacked?

[Spidey]

Just now, sanemax said:

Scotland recently  voted to remain in the UK , with its Parliament in Westminster and Northern Irish prefer Westminister to Dublin  

It wasn't that recently and there was no suggestion of leaving the EU then. Scotland voted overwhelmingly (62% - 38%) to remain in the EU (where's their democratic rights?) and , it's fairly obvious that if we were to leave the EU and Scotland were subsequently given another referendum, they would see independence as a back door method of rejoining the EU. Thus, this time, they would vote for independence.

 

As for NI, the majority, protestant immigrants, do indeed want to stay in the UK. The indigenous Catholics would give their right arms to rejoin the South. As it's an Irish issue, It would be only fair for the whole island to have a vote in the referendum, guess who would win that vote!

[sanemax]

Just now, RuamRudy said:

Taking into account the importance of sovereignty that so many Brexiteers refer to when explaining why they back leaving the EU, why do you suppose that this same notion would not be one felt by Scots and Irish? Why do you think that they would prefer that their larger, neighbouring country called all the shots?

Same as Londoners really , London voted to Remain , but Londoners realise that it wasnt just them voting and everyones vote in the UK needs to be taken into consideration  before the U.K makes a choice as a whole

[Spidey]

4 minutes ago, rixalex said:

Well at least you admit being blinkered. Accepting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

Here's hoping that you have a swift recovery.... in time to vote remain at the next referendum. You know it makes sense.

[sanemax]

Just now, Spidey said:

Here's hoping that you have a swift recovery.... in time to vote remain at the next referendum. You know it makes sense.

There will not be another referendum though

[Spidey]

1 minute ago, sanemax said:

There will not be another referendum though

Luckily, that's not up to you.

[Spidey]

7 minutes ago, rixalex said:

When have you been attacked?

A week last Tuesday. Fortunately, I was able to repel the attack without sustaining injury. Any more absurd moronic questions?

[sanemax]

4 minutes ago, Spidey said:

Luckily, that's not up to you.

.............and have you called another referendum ?

[Spidey]

Just now, sanemax said:

.............and have you called another referendum ?

Has senility set in? It's the job of parliament to call for a referendum.

[Nigel Garvie]

1 hour ago, Laughing Gravy said:

That is the difference from leavers to remainers. we don't want masters. We have the strength, vision and courage to look after ourselves instead of being ruled by Brussels.

 

It must be frightening for you having to rely on a foreign entity to be able to stand on your own too feet and govern. Don't worry the Leavers will do that for you.

 

As for the barmy laws they are the laws that the EU have insisted on with reciprocal benefits for EU members. It is just that nobody from the UK fancies Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, Latvi, Slovakia etc etc.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/10391238/Benefits-in-Europe-country-by-country.html

 

I am self employed thus my own master if I keep out of trouble with the cops. The idea of Leavers having "Vision" has caused me vast amusement already, and the day has just started. I grant you it does take courage to shoot yourself in the head, although the emptier the head the less courage it takes.

The prospect of being ruled by a mob of moronic gammon from Sunderland and the like does not excite me, let alone by that self serving Fromage character. 

The solution for Scotland to this is simple -  independence - not being ruled by the greatest collection of fools Westminster has ever seen.

Of course you are right, very few people from the UK fancy living in Romania, Poland, Bulgaria, Latvia, Slovakia etc etc. However they do fancy Spain, though how long they can afford to remain there with the UKP becoming progressively more worthless is questionable.

Apparently there is going to be a new TV program called "A place in the shit". The theme is Sunburnt rascist pensioners having been forced back from Spain after Brexit, look around shitty UK flats with faces like thunder. 

[RuamRudy]

4 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Same as Londoners really , London voted to Remain , but Londoners realise that it wasnt just them voting and everyones vote in the UK needs to be taken into consideration  before the U.K makes a choice as a whole

Sorry if I was a bit wandering, but I was referring more to the general notion that Brexit was driven by those who felt that the EU was subsuming their own nation's sovereignty.

 

This data is a bit old (2011) but you can see that, with the exception of NI, each of the other hoe nations sees itself as predominantly of that country first.  Of course, as England calls the shots, the status quo will be easier to maintain there, but can you see how this notion of sovereignty that Brexiteers talk about is one that resonates strongly in both Wales and Scotland?

 

 

 

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, Spidey said:

The politeness I was referring to is when someone asks you a question, it's polite to try to give them an answer. Just as I'm giving you a courteous reply to your absurd moronic post.

As has been pointed out, the question asked has been answered quite literally thousands of times on this forum, since the vote you lost in 2016. Impolite and disingenuous to continue asking a question that has already been answered. I think this has been the remainer tactic though from the beginning. Keep the debate going around in circles. Never moving forward. Then bemoan how nothing is moving forward.

 

And there's nothing courteous about calling someone's post absurd and moronic.

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Taking into account the importance of sovereignty that so many Brexiteers refer to when explaining why they back leaving the EU, why do you suppose that this same notion would not be one felt by Scots and Irish? Why do you think that they would prefer that their larger, neighbouring country called all the shots?

I do understand it. The question is, since you know very well what it is like to want freedom and independence for your nation, why don't you understand leavers having that same desire?

 

It's ok for you to want separation from Britain, but it's not ok for Britain to want separation from the EU.

[rixalex]

1 hour ago, sanemax said:

Same as Londoners really , London voted to Remain , but Londoners realise that it wasnt just them voting and everyones vote in the UK needs to be taken into consideration  before the U.K makes a choice as a whole

Indeed. And in the same way, if Scotland has another vote on independence and the majority says yes, but Dumfries says no, should Scotland then "drag" Dumfries into independence against its will? Of course yes, because it is agreed upon prior to the vote that the vote is taken as a whole.

[Spidey]

3 minutes ago, rixalex said:

I do understand it. The question is, since you know very well what it is like to want freedom and independence for your nation, why don't you understand leavers having that same desire?

No problem with people having that altruistic notion. Enacting it and destroying the economy is another matter.

 

I would love a new Ferrari, I could jut about scrape enough money to buy one, but it would leave me penniless. Does it make sense for me to go out and buy a new Ferrari?

[Spidey]

17 minutes ago, rixalex said:

And there's nothing courteous about calling someone's post absurd and moronic.

Comic irony not part of your repertoire? 

[malagateddy]

The people of Scotland will vote to remain in the UK..believe me.
Scottish voters with life experience are not stupid!!

Indeed. And in the same way, if Scotland has another vote on independence and the majority says yes, but Dumfries says no, should Scotland then "drag" Dumfries into independence against its will? Of course yes, because it is agreed upon prior to the vote that the vote is taken as a whole.

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[malagateddy]

R/r..if you think the snp will take the Scottish people to the promised land..full of milk and honey..please think again.
I admit it's nice to now and again dream..but the snp will not "pull the wool " over the voting public again.
Just wonder where all the money will come from to make Scotland Sturgeon's " alice in wonderland's " scenario.

I am not sure if it is denial or ignorance on the part of some, but the UK has never been so disunited as it is now. 
If anything good comes from Brexit, it will be that the United Kingdom will, very soon, become nothing more than a part of our shared islands' past. 
 

YouGov: Plaid Cymru leader Adam Price the highest rated politician in Wales

Paddy Power has slashed the odds on reunification within five years as research shows Ireland could be heading for a referendum
 
Scottish Tories are scared of indyref2, Nicola Sturgeon says
 
 

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[Nigel Garvie]

13 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

The people of Scotland will vote to remain in the UK..believe me.
Scottish voters with life experience are not stupid!!

 

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  36 minutes ago,  rixalex said: 

"Indeed. And in the same way, if Scotland has another vote on independence and the majority says yes, but Dumfries says no, should Scotland then "drag" Dumfries into independence against its will? Of course yes, because it is agreed upon prior to the vote that the vote is taken as a whole."

 

The point is that Scotland were never asked if they wanted a vote on independence in the first place, the vote was imposed on them against their will. I am a Scottish voter, and at 70 I have plenty of "Life experience" thanks, including running my own business for over 30 years. The unequal Union stinks to me, I don't feel British in any way at all. The EU has not stoped anyone from having a British passport (You can even have a blue one like Croatia if you are obsessed with that) but I can't have a Scottish passport. That is why I wan't out of the UK and to stay in the EU.

Edited March 3, 2019 by Nigel Garvie
omission

[Loiner]

13 hours ago, bomber said:

i agree asylum seekers we can do without,but the govt you have so much faith in and want to give all power to isnt capable of keeping them out despite being an island.EU workers/migrants i have no issue's with.

And the EU will keep them out of the UK for us? I think not. The EU and its' Schengen scheme allows them to creep through various countries on their way to the UK. How many EU borders does the average gimmigrant cross before he arrives in the land of milk and honey?

What about those invited into the EU by Angela Merkel who then wants to share them out among the other EU nations? That wasn't that wasn't a reflection of the UK government's capabilities. Once they're in, they are almost always 'in'.

Both current government and opposition has no real will to stem the flow. It was started by Tony B.liar when he was PM and has hardly changed over the last 20 years. The same members of parliament who don't fix the problem are also in the majority as Remainers. Is that just a coincidence? Maybe the next GE will change all that.

[SheungWan]

2 hours ago, sanemax said:

Same as Londoners really , London voted to Remain , but Londoners realise that it wasnt just them voting and everyones vote in the UK needs to be taken into consideration  before the U.K makes a choice as a whole

Actually no. If only Londoners had the option to split off from the rest of the UK. Bliss!

[malagateddy]

I was born in Glasgow 1950..lived and worked there till I moved Thai October 2014.
I feel BRITISH not scottish..we have different thoughts and feelings obviously.
I also ran a small business till I retired. The rancid eu..I loath them..I have absolutely nothing against the vast majority of european people..having friends in Spain etc..but I do not believe in a united states of europe.
We all think differently.
At least we can kick out any UK Govt every 5 years..try kicking out the brussels jobsworths!!!!!

  36 minutes ago,  rixalex said:  "Indeed. And in the same way, if Scotland has another vote on independence and the majority says yes, but Dumfries says no, should Scotland then "drag" Dumfries into independence against its will? Of course yes, because it is agreed upon prior to the vote that the vote is taken as a whole."  
The point is that Scotland were never asked if they wanted a vote on independence in the first place, the vote was imposed on them against their will. I am a Scottish voter, and at 70 I have plenty of "Life experience" thanks, including running my own business for over 30 years. The unequal Union stinks to me, I don't feel British in any way at all. The EU has not stoped anyone from having a British passport (You can even have a blue one like Croatia if you are obsessed with that) but I can't have a Scottish passport. That is why I wan't out of the UK and to stay in the EU.

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[RuamRudy]

1 hour ago, rixalex said:

I do understand it. The question is, since you know very well what it is like to want freedom and independence for your nation, why don't you understand leavers having that same desire?

 

It's ok for you to want separation from Britain, but it's not ok for Britain to want separation from the EU.

Not at all - in fact I have stated on several of the many Brexit threads that I fully respect the right of England to secede from the EU. I wish for England nothing but success in its post-Brexit future, but I think that Brexit should not be forced upon the other home nations without their expressed consent. 

[sanemax]

43 minutes ago, Nigel Garvie said:

. The unequal Union stinks to me, I don't feel British in any way at all. The EU has not stoped anyone from having a British passport (You can even have a blue one like Croatia if you are obsessed with that) but I can't have a Scottish passport. That is why I wan't out of the UK and to stay in the EU.

 

You are mixing two things up there  , yes you cannot get a Scottish passport and neither can I get a English passport and we can both get British passports

[RuamRudy]

52 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

R/r..if you think the snp will take the Scottish people to the promised land..full of milk and honey..please think again.
I admit it's nice to now and again dream..but the snp will not "pull the wool " over the voting public again.
Just wonder where all the money will come from to make Scotland Sturgeon's " alice in wonderland's " scenario.

 

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The question that has been asked many, many time but never, ever answered, MT - why is Scotland unique in the world as being unable to manage its own affairs? Johann Lamont, former SLab leader did state that Scots "are not genetically programmed... to make political decisions." Is that something with which you agree?

 

Here is a list of all the countries that have gained independence from the UK. I believe that the number which have later expressed regret at the transition or asked to revert the move is somewhere in the region of ZERO.

 

[dick dasterdly]

2 hours ago, rixalex said:

As has been pointed out, the question asked has been answered quite literally thousands of times on this forum, since the vote you lost in 2016. Impolite and disingenuous to continue asking a question that has already been answered. I think this has been the remainer tactic though from the beginning. Keep the debate going around in circles. Never moving forward. Then bemoan how nothing is moving forward.

 

And there's nothing courteous about calling someone's post absurd and moronic.

I wish remainers would give up on the insults.

 

It doesn't encourage genuine discussion - rather the opposite. ☹️

 

I suspect they're trying to encourage even worse insults in return - that will result in closing down threads?

 

Even if I'm wrong in this suspicion, how on earth does insulting those with a different opinion further their cause?

[malagateddy]

My dear mucker R/R...you will obviously know that last august/september there was a " hope not fear " parade through Glasgow city centre trying to drum up support for indyref2.
Were/are you aware that there was an irish republican flute band playing their " tunes " marching in their midst.!!!!![emoji35]

The question that has been asked many, many time but never, ever answered, MT - why is Scotland unique in the world as being unable to manage its own affairs? Johann Lamont, former SLab leader did state that Scots "are not genetically programmed... to make political decisions." Is that something with which you agree?
 
Here is a list of all the countries that have gained independence from the UK. I believe that the number which have later expressed regret at the transition or asked to revert the move is somewhere in the region of ZERO.
 

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[RuamRudy]

2 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

My dear mucker R/R...you will obviously know that last august/september there was a " hope not fear " parade through Glasgow city centre trying to drum up support for indyref2.
Were/are you aware that there was an irish republican flute band playing their " tunes " marching in their midst.!!!!!

 

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I was not aware, Teddy, but I am struggling to see the relevance of your point. It is no less irrelevant than the OO man jailed last week for spitting in the face of a priest. Sectarianism has no place in the 21st century. 

Edited March 3, 2019 by RuamRudy