What is your legal status and consequences if failing to meet a post seasoning bank book check?

[Peterw42]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

You'll probably need to post that 10 more times before some people stop denying this issue exists. 

I'm not denying the issue exists, more trying to get to the bottom of where and how often, and the wording etc.

 

As I said, a friend just did an extension at Jomtien and was adamant he just got a "dont forget to keep money in the bank" document. (i am trying to get hold of him to clarify) It does appear to be inconsistent even in the offices doing it.

 

I was interested to see the wording to see if it could be misunderstood, but as above, its pretty clear.

 

 

[SEtonal]

Quote

As the immigration leader in Phuket didn't offer any information on what happens if people show up for their 90 day show bank book thing, I don't think it's reasonable to assume that you know either. 

 

42 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I am not aware of a 90 day check. Only the 3 months after they applied note done in Jomtien.

I think it would depend on how much and when the it dropped below 800k baht.

I am sure it went to almost zero shortly after the application was done they would have grounds to cancel the extension since that is what I think they are trying to prevet.

If went below the 800k baht number by a small amount they might be flexible.

 

Phuket does not have a 90-day or 3 month check-in/"show bank book thing" like Jomtien.   Instead, Phuket Immigration Volunteers say that it is possible that a retirement extension application may randomly be selected to receive a "90 days under consideration stamp".

 

It took me a few days to figure out the difference between Jomtien and Phuket.

 

In a random selection process it is possible that applicants will receive a 90 days under consideration stamp and have to return to the immigration department after 90 days with new bank statements to proof that the 800.000 Baht is still in your account after which the remaining months will be granted.

 

http://piv-phuket.com/long-stay-extensions/changes-regarding-retirement-extension-application/

[Ebumbu]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

I agree. That is what this topic is about. We NEED information and clarification about what is the exact policy for people that have been ordered to show up to show bank book after 90 days (which I am calling now POST seasoning) that have failed to comply. 

It makes a big difference if the consequence is leave the country in 7 days and then you can start on a new visa VS. instant overstay, immigration prison, deportation, and blacklisted. Many retired expats have large assets here such as condos and vehicles and no place to go back to in their home country. How do you deal with assets here if you're blacklisted? So if blacklisting is on the table as a possible consequence, people NEED to know. I'm not saying it will be. I don't know. But such harsh measures are applied for other immigration violations, so again, people NEED to know. 

 

Yes, the ambiguity surrounding visas is the largest negative about staying in Thailand.

 

If you haven't already extended, you might consider the "combined" method of savings and deposits. Your current balance plus your monthly deposits add up to 800k and you're good to go. I think that the minimum amount of savings is 400k (for combined method), and the seasoning requirements are the same. I'm not certain. The combined method would have you covered for any dip under 800k. Trying to be helpful. This is the land of ambiguity. 

 

Since "the retirement visa" has become so convoluted, I'm considering backup plans, including starting a Thai business and other types of visas to ensure my continuity here (not a tourist visa). 

 

 

 

 

[phuketrichard]

1 hour ago, Jingthing said:

This is not hypothetical.

We already know the orders are being issued. 

It's common sense to realize that some percentage of people being given the orders (for whatever reasons, either justifiable or not) are not going to be able to meet the 90 day POST seasoning rule that WILL BE checked at the 90 day bank book checks.

Perhaps as another suggested, they just should not show up. But if not, that is a violation too. But this important question asks, when such people do show up to a 90 day bank book check and they sadly are under the required level, what EXACTLY will happen to them?

OK:
lts say u get the letter which has been issued to everyone at jomtien immigration with a due report date .

 

do they write ur name down as having been given the letter?

If not, u can say, you received no letter.

You can do ur 90 day report online

 

All i can assume is ur next extension if you dont follow the rules ( 800,000 for 3 months, 400,000 for the next 7)
u will NOT get anymore extensions

[Jingthing]

1 minute ago, Ebumbu said:

 

Yes, the ambiguity surrounding visas is the largest negative about staying in Thailand.

 

If you haven't already extended, you might consider the "combined" method of savings and deposits. Your current balance plus your monthly deposits add up to 800k and you're good to go. I think that the minimum amount of savings is 400k (for combined method), and the seasoning requirements are the same. I'm not certain. The combined method would have you covered for any dip under 800k. Trying to be helpful. This is the land of ambiguity. 

 

Since "the retirement visa" has become so convoluted, I'm considering backup plans, including starting a Thai business and other types of visas to ensure my continuity here (not a tourist visa). 

 

 

 

 

The combo method is another topic. The situation is very messy. I wouldn't recommend that to my worst enemy especially without an embassy letter. I have heard recent credible reports from Jomtien that they are not accepting them anymore. In any case, this is not a combo method topic specifically, though I would assume that an office handing out 90 day show money orders for full income applications would ALSO be handing them out to combo method people as well. 

[phuketrichard]

If your on a Marriage extension and u get divorced>
your extension is voided

if ur on a extension based on working and a wp and your work is canceled or your fired...

your extension is voided,

so would it go to follow if your on a retirement extension and you do not follow the law

your extension is voided?
 

they really need to tell everyone>>>

agents are still doing extensions for the next year for anywhere from 15-23,000 baht.

do they know something?

 

[Ebumbu]

8 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

The combo method is another topic. The situation is very messy. I wouldn't recommend that to my worst enemy especially without an embassy letter. I have heard recent credible reports from Jomtien that they are not accepting them anymore. In any case, this is not a combo method topic specifically, though I would assume that an office handing out 90 day show money orders for full income applications would ALSO be handing them out to combo method people as well. 

 

I'm going to have a "Thai Business" and an "ED Visa" researched and ready in case things get extremely messy with Type O extension. I don't expect they will be. I hope not. But, my life hangs in the balance, so I'm organizing plan B and C. I think it will be OK, but will send a smart lawyer into immigrations this year for the extension, even though my ducks should be in a row (Phuket). 

 

I'm willing to pay an extra 25,000 baht to "connected" lawyer if it will smooth the process a little bit. Like you (it seems), I get stressed out by this ambiguity nonsense. Coming from IT, I like every detail documented. But, TIT! 

Edited March 16, 2019 by Ebumbu

[mokwit]

4 minutes ago, phuketrichard said:

agents are still doing extensions for the next year for anywhere from 15-23,000 baht.

do they know something?

Yes, no refund policy if it doesn't work out.

[AGareth2]

58 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

No. You're wrong. These orders to show up with bank book exist.

 

where is your evidence of this

please reproduce

[Negita43]

It's slightly off topic but what concerns me (as is highly likely in my case next year) If you have thw required more than 400K in the bank but are not actually in the country at the time you have to prove it. Is this a subtle way of forcing retirement extension owners to be in the country the whole time???

[yodsak]

7 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

where is your evidence of this

please reproduce

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, yodsak said:

looks more like a request

what if you had to be out of the country?

[Thingamabob]

Dear oh dear. Calm down. Nothing to worry about. The rules have been published in English. Just follow them.

[elliss]

 

   Farang ,  have legal status  in Thailand ?. 

Alien not have .   

     New  immi requirements  are  flexible,  ask any friendly agent.  555

 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 16, 2019 by elliss

[jesimps]

Maybe you'd be treated as being on overstay from the day you dropped below the required amount and punished as such. After all, from the moment you drop below the limit, you're living here illegally. Not saying it's fair, just my guess as to immig's reaction.

[topt]

1 hour ago, phuketrichard said:

do they write ur name down as having been given the letter?

If not, u can say, you received no letter.

I received the same document on Thursday at Jomtien. Additionally attached to the back of it was a photo copy of my passport details page and bank account cover page. The IO definitely has a copy.

[david555]

2 hours ago, Jingthing said:

This is not hypothetical.

We already know the orders are being issued. 

It's common sense to realize that some percentage of people being given the orders (for whatever reasons, either justifiable or not) are not going to be able to meet the 90 day POST seasoning rule that WILL BE checked at the 90 day bank book checks.

Perhaps as another suggested, they just should not show up. But if not, that is a violation too. But this important question asks, when such people do show up to a 90 day bank book check and they sadly are under the required level, what EXACTLY will happen to them?

i would understand this would be the most accurate control and the most easy to remember to do , and on top of it it would solve the problem in case leaving the country ...as 90 day rapport is reset by this until entering Thailand a new .

As what should happen else , you would be like in North Korea style , no freedom to travel  . I don't mind control ,even when not liking it , it follow them , but It must be a reasonable made control .

finally your bank passbook is the ultimate control ….. and yes … from the moment some one  is under the 800 or 400 k baht , your not following your extension rule and, yes can be considered void ….not knowing further measures if it affect future visa applications ...to resolve a quick leaving the country for taking care of assets 

No scaremongering or disaster fantasy's , just a plain reality 

Edited March 16, 2019 by david555

[Jingthing]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

i would understand this would be the most accurate control and the most easy to remember to do , and on top of it it would solve the problem in case leaving the country ...as 90 day rapport is reset by this until entering Thailand a new .

As what should happen else , you would be like in North Korea style , no freedom to travel  . I don't mind control ,even when not liking it , it follow them , but It must be a reasonable made control .

finally your bank passbook is the ultimate control ….. and yes … from the moment some one  is under the 800 or 400 k baht , your not following your extension rule and, yes can be considered void ….not knowing further measures if it affect future visa applications ...to resolve a quick leaving the country avoiding for taking care of assets 

No scaremongering or disaster fantasy's , just a plain reality 

Well, I've been following this and my impression is that the show bank book thing will not prevent people from traveling on that stamped date, but they would be required to show up after reentering Thailand. Of course immigration assuming they're organized well enough (and there is strong evidence they are getting more organized) would know the list of people that are ordered and haven't shown. 

As far as what this represents in general. I am very concerned and I think it's rational for all foreigners to be concerned. I also think prospective future expats should take note of this as well. It's not about one rule. There is a trend going on that you would need to be totally blind not to see. 

[david555]

23 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Well, I've been following this and my impression is that the show bank book thing will not prevent people from traveling on that stamped date, but they would be required to show up after reentering Thailand. Of course immigration assuming they're organized well enough (and there is strong evidence they are getting more organized) would know the list of people that are ordered and haven't shown. 

As far as what this represents in general. I am very concerned and I think it's rational for all foreigners to be concerned. I also think prospective future expats should take note of this as well. It's not about one rule. There is a trend going on that you would need to be totally blind not to see. 

Oh I understand you very well and I made my plan already on long term , as in to 4 years I take official address back in my home country and shall divide it with example 6 month's home country and6 month's Thailand ...or other sunny winter destination, as now they start going to far to be a welcome country , rules yes , but I kept more than 6 years more than the double on my account untouched …. and now they start treating me/us as under guardianship .... oh no , for those 6 months Thailand I shall see for  other visa system , sorry Thailand your banks go not be filled with my money any more if that was the "target " ...Do they consider that for many this means a whole year around 40/45000 baht shall be economized ….and which part of Thai population go mis that monthly 40/45k x  X- number farangs not spending anymore …. yes the lowest earners first ...and yes again the north easter ones , so …. they shall become  even more rebellious on long term missing 40/45 k income….of course Thai gov. don't think about that ..and sure not a military one ...until another part take over ...

Edited March 16, 2019 by david555

[AGareth2]

21 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Of course immigration assuming they're organized well enough (and there is strong evidence they are getting more organized) would know the list of people that are ordered and haven't shown. 

so what are they going to do?

Issue arrest warrants?

[david555]

9 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

so what are they going to do?

Issue arrest warrants?

just cancel extension suffice them already enough , until culprit show up on immigration ,

How you think our western country's "catch" their wanted ones …. just revoke their passport and warn Thailand or other foreign country from that , and a sudden the person is illegal in that country because no passport anymore , so no visa & also void  ….

So easy and accurate  

Edited March 16, 2019 by david555

[AGareth2]

3 minutes ago, david555 said:

just cancel extension suffice them already enough , until culprit show up on immigration , 

I don't think it is that simple to cancel arbitrarily without notification

[david555]

1 minute ago, AGareth2 said:

I don't think it is that simple to cancel arbitrarily without notification

You think ….if they need us it is te easiest way to make us unwanted in the run too country …. you can always sue your government once back there …..good luck with that , but in mean time you are home country anyway already 

[john ianson]

11 hours ago, jacko45k said:

You do not know that. If that were the case, there would be no reason whatsoever to ask someone to return with their bankbook after 3 months.

The new rules, as I read them, refer to the current extension. Ie 2 months before, 3 months after and then 6-7 months at 400,000, again after. No mention of next years application there.

 

Myself, I kinda think you would be a bit of a schmuck to go to immigration with a bankbook showing under 800k after the post 3 months. Perhaps do on-line 90 day reporting, see the year out, and go agent or Visa from home country. 

I hear all the discussion about bank books etc and I understand the confusion . But what happens when someone arrives with a dodgy visa and no bank book for 90 days reporting and someone like me asks why this person does not have to show a bank book balance ? I ask this because I am told the agents are advising clients business as usual with 15000 to 20000 under the table dodgy visas which require NO bank books or statements are still available!

[david555]

20 minutes ago, john ianson said:

I hear all the discussion about bank books etc and I understand the confusion . But what happens when someone arrives with a dodgy visa and no bank book for 90 days reporting and someone like me asks why this person does not have to show a bank book balance ? I ask this because I am told the agents are advising clients business as usual with 15000 to 20000 under the table dodgy visas which require NO bank books or statements are still available!

I may assume that is the reason Jomtien 5 immigration give those appointment documents …so the agent knows when to pass by to "arrange" it a new for his client  …. gives the impression they are also controlled those agents ...but normally by " a random not in the deal I.O's …" , normal control ,those dodgy ext. holders would be in BIG problem

Edited March 16, 2019 by david555

[cleopatra2]

15 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

I don't think it is that simple to cancel arbitrarily without notification

They only have to send notification to the last known address By sending the notice the authorities fullfil their obligation with respect to notifying the alien..

It should be noted that having permission of stay revoked falls under persons not allowed entry under section 12 of the immigration act.

[Negita43]

1 hour ago, Thingamabob said:

Dear oh dear. Calm down. Nothing to worry about. The rules have been published in English. Just follow them.

Link to these rules please

[Grusa]

4 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

Does anyone have a snapshot/copy of one of the orders ? Would be interesting to see the wording etc.

[Grusa]

4 hours ago, Vacuum said:

Well, I did my extension last week, there was no such paper handed to me. IO said; see you next year.

That was last week, this is this week. I am sure the answer to the OP lies in who do you know/how fat is the envelope. Or both. As usual.

I confess to being a cynic, based on experience.

Edited March 16, 2019 by Grusa
Hubris

[Grusa]

3 hours ago, phuketrichard said:

OK:
lts say u get the letter which has been issued to everyone at jomtien immigration with a due report date .

 

do they write ur name down as having been given the letter?

If not, u can say, you received no letter.

You can do ur 90 day report online

 

All i can assume is ur next extension if you dont follow the rules ( 800,000 for 3 months, 400,000 for the next 7)
u will NOT get anymore extensions

They give you the form, make you read it, sign it, then THEY photocopy it and give you the copy.

Whilst I have grave doubts about their ability to run a filing system for all that paper, their computer system gets better, and their is undoubtedly paper proof that you have seen it and signed it. No proof you read it or understood it - so what? So it all depends on their ability to find the papers, unless they run under Napoloenic law - which they mostly do, when it suits them.