Feeling 'eyed' by Thailand and what I'm planning on doing about it

[marcusarelus]

6 minutes ago, BritManToo said:

How interesting they are would be a relative judgement.

 

What about the evil eye? 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

Have a look at the attached article. It appears to be very shrewd advice, and I am following this strategy. The two points he makes are:

 

(1) it is smarter to start tapping IRA accounts first if it enables you to delay enrolling in SS because the 8% per year "raise" you get by delaying SS benefits is probably greater than the return you will receive on your IRA. Also, if you withdraw from IRAs after you have retired but before you start collecting social security, the tax rate on the IRA withdrawals will probably be lower than it would be if you wait until after you start collecting SS to make IRA withdrawals.

 

(2) mandatory IRA withdrawals after age 70.5, coupled with taxes on SS income, and taxes on other income could possibly put you into a higher tax bracket. He argues that it may be advisable to start withdrawing from IRAs in order to reduce your taxes later on when you start collecting SS.

 

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/12/03/many-people-could-claim-a-larger-social-security-check-by-doing-this.html

OK sorry buddy you are thinking too serious my IRA comment was about The Irish Republican Army you yanks can't nick everything, you have God bless America.

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, tlandtday said:

yes I can argue with it... so if a Thai or any immigrant comes to America or Britain or wherever i should assume it is my country not theirs?  this is your logic?

OK I understand you I have kids and grandchildren of my own.

[mania]

9 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

People forget easily and blame Thailand when it was countries Embassies that started stirring things up. 

Not to pick specifically on your post but I have seen this same thing posted a few times in this thread.

 

I do not think it is factual

I believe the events went more like this....

 

Thailand put the burden of proof that what foreign citizens were swearing to in the embassies about income was true.

The Embassies claimed it was not possible for them to prove due to too many privacy laws etc protecting the claimant info or

it was too convoluted to dig out the truth. Probably easy enough to see a SS payment or Pension but many citizens had a list of sources...

ie: rent income etc etc

 

Secondly I think Thailand has just reached a limit on seeing homeless foreigners in the capita cities literally begging with signs in Thai

& English (yes likely scammers but there..) Also the often mentioned unpaid medical bills left by foreigners showing up in hospitals.

 

Lastly this past year quite a few unflattering articles in papers pointing out such things as many Foreign retirees live on less than 40k baht a month

In itself nothing wrong with that as Thailand is inexpensive etc. but it made authorities realize many may not have means to support themselves through troubled times

 

So at the end of the day I would not say it was Thailand & I would not say it was the Embassies. If anything it was just the bad example retirees themselves

or the basic precaution being taken by Thailand to ensure those who retire to Thailand had the means to stay without being a burden to Thailand.

 

The new requirement to leave money year round in account while a denial of use to owner in a sense is after all an enforced nest egg that surely could be used

by the owner in a dire need case

[Nyezhov]

3 hours ago, BritManToo said:

How interesting they are would be a relative judgement.

 

I like talking to the Monks, you alway can find an english speaking one. Thats kind of interesting. And I jawed it with a Sr Cop the other day and learned a lot (he was a Colonel).

 

I usually dont have much of a conversation with cab drivers, MC guys, Noodle Ladies, Fruit Dudes or Thermae girls and the like.

Edited March 19, 2019 by Nyezhov

[Jingthing]

49 minutes ago, Benroon said:

It’s BARE faced lie ????

Depends.

https://www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/baldfaced-lie-or-barefaced-lie

 

[swissie]

On 3/18/2019 at 6:17 PM, Jingthing said:

American or not, of course I only speak for myself.

I was fully aware moving to Thailand that Thailand offered no residence security or path towards residence security based on retirement extensions.

HOWEVER, what I didn't know, what I didn't anticipate, was that immigration was going to morph into something resembling mandated AGGRESSIVE INSECURTY, seemingly setting booby traps, many rules and even more so their ENFORCEMENT norms having the clarity of MUDDY MUD … giving many long term expats the justifiable feeling that there is a general SHAKEOUT in process. Drip drip drip. That some people can't see that amazes me.

 

This is just too much to think is a healthy or happy situation for people as they age. 

Yes it's drip, drip, drip. A "Big Bang" would cause too much international diplomatic turmoil. So it's drip drip drip.....

[swissie]

20 hours ago, mania said:

You know this one thing is pretty dang bad.

 

I mean ok they require you to get a one year extension with all that entails..Fair enough

You jump thru the hoops & are granted a 1 year stay

 

BUT...not really because every 90 days they want to know again are you here?

 

Now say you want to travel out of country

One year visa extension still ok? Well yes IF you pay another 1900baht & get a permission to return/re-enter

Why? Did we not have a 1 year extension with all the T's crossed & i's dotted?

 

Now say you want to just travel within the country?

That TM-30 you speak of is the worse.

 Because after all again do we or do we not already have permission to be here?

PS: on out of country trips don't forget even WITH the paid for re-entry permit you still will need to comply with this TM-30 quickly

after your return

 

It once was that many folks moved to Thailand & felt great freedom. I did

But to be honest since moving back to the US I feel greater freedom

 

In the years I have been back I have never been stopped by a cop...because I guess here you actually need to

commit an offense to get stopped. Many other things but I think most know

 

Good Luck to you what ever you decide

On the SS I would maybe do a proforma type of sheet

I did & when I saw the results I went for early SS @ 62

 

Just make a list of what if's

Use a standard exit age of say 83

Then look at the amounts you would collect total & see if it is worth waiting...you may be surprised ????

 

Yep. The TM 30 broke my Camels back. With a valid visa, I didn't quite understand why the Thai-Governement needs to know where I am at all times. Reminding me of the surveillance mechanism in the former Sovjet-Union.
Made me dissolve my assets in Thailand that wouldn't fit into a suitcase.
I felt it was a harbinger of things to come.
As current developements show, the harbinger wasen't lying.

[swissie]

9 hours ago, uhuh said:

Much simpler than this: familiarity breeds contempt. 

Westerners are nothing special anymore. 

As soon as Thais are familiar with Westerners they behave just as ugly and brutal as they behave between themselves. No more smile and gone are the niceties.

Pattaya is the real Thailand. Here Thais drop the mask and show their real personality.  Not a nice sight. 

A depressing comment. The most depressing thing about it is, that the comment is depressingly accurate.

[swissie]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I like talking to the Monks, you alway can find an english speaking one. Thats kind of interesting. And I jawed it with a Sr Cop the other day and learned a lot (he was a Colonel).

 

I usually dont have much of a conversation with cab drivers, MC guys, Noodle Ladies, Fruit Dudes or Thermae girls and the like.

A life in isolation. But that's OK. We all came here for the temples in the first place only. Low cost of living as a deciding factor?

You would not be the only one, as I gather.

 

[GoodieAfterDark]

15 hours ago, mngmn said:

There is no security for personal relationships.  You can only stay with your partner/children at the whim of the immigration department on a year-by-year basis.  Rules can change at any time, possibly forcing a long term separation.

I have to agree 100%, specially if your wife is a bar girl.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Nyezhov said:

I like talking to the Monks, you alway can find an english speaking one. Thats kind of interesting. And I jawed it with a Sr Cop the other day and learned a lot (he was a Colonel).

 

I usually dont have much of a conversation with cab drivers, MC guys, Noodle Ladies, Fruit Dudes or Thermae girls and the like.

of course learning to say turn left, turn right, and for many here ...turn over.... are vital in conversations with taxi drivers and thermae ladies

[dbrenn]

10 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Nope..it's your truth not mine-own it.

I discount 99% of the internet wallah's statements about "truth" and that is before 9 o'clock in the morning.

So why bother writing here then, as an Internet wallah yourself?

 

The fact is that Thais used to hold westerners collectively in high regard. Then, their government tired of all the negative preaching from the west about how they should run their country, and turned towards China. It was all in the news. Now, they still like us on an individual level, but not so much on a collective level, hence a less forgiving official policy.

 

What's your theory then, Einstein?

[GoodieAfterDark]

6 hours ago, Mansell said:

Pretty sad way to live your life in my opinion, though I'm sure you don't care. You are also part of the problem why Thais do not care for us. I interact with Thais where I live and they are friendly, nice, interesting people. So I consider myself part of the solution. Pretty lonely existence for you. If you look at this world the only thing that actually counts for anything is friends, relationships, and love. All the rest doesn't count for much of anything.

I think Thais are very social people. Usually they are in large groups eating or  doing different activities together.(not necessarily beating foreigners)  If you are not a social person, or you are  introvert having a hard time to make friends or trust people, then Thailand will be a difficult place to live in. 

[rumak]

41 minutes ago, swissie said:

  10 hours ago, uhuh said:

Much simpler than this: familiarity breeds contempt. 

Westerners are nothing special anymore. 

yeah.....took the thais a lot longer than most to find that out.

of course many Westerners still act like they should be treated in some special way.

Sense of entitlement I believe it is called.   

Edited March 19, 2019 by rumak

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎3‎/‎19‎/‎2019 at 12:23 AM, Orton Rd said:

Can relate to the change in Thai attitudes, I have had people who will not sit next to the foreigner on a bus many times, or if they do move as soon as they can. Last week sitting at the food court in TOPS the woman next to me got up and dragged her table away (they have two together) Many other little slights like that go on, it's stopped being the land of smiles a long time ago, although you there are still nice encounters of course.

That sounds like Bkk. I didn't live in Bkk and never noticed any such attitude.

I lived in Pattaya a while, a village far from a city for a while, Lamphun a few years and then Chiang Mai for a year. In none of those locations did I feel any hostility from the Thai populace.

[mania]

1 hour ago, dbrenn said:

The fact is that Thais used to hold westerners collectively in high regard. Then, their government tired of all the negative preaching from the west about how they should run their country, and turned towards China. It was all in the news. Now, they still like us on an individual level, but not so much on a collective level, hence a less forgiving official policy.

I tend to agree & have seen such tit for tat for lack of better description but...

 

On the other hand a Military Junta cannot waltz into a democratically elected govt...overthrow it & not expect some other countries to say something.

 

Perhaps it will now continue? Who do you think will suffer more? If these other governments become less forgiving of Thailand?

I actually think that the outcome of this coming weekends elections will have a hand in making that decision.

 

[marcusarelus]

9 hours ago, Benroon said:

Isn’t everything then ? 

No, of course not.  Thailand reduced the bank seasoning from 3 months to 2 before the extension.  Not a judgement but written fact. 

 

The evil eye - what it is and how many people give it to you and why is all a relative judgement. 

[tingtongtourist]

17 hours ago, Jingthing said:

There are definitely new rules about the 800K method.

For those that have been relying on income methods and lost the embassy letter option, the 800K method is much easier to comply with.

For those under 65K monthly pension, the combo method is now in a great state of enforcement uncertainty, meaning sensible people will shift to the 800K method if they can. 

Within the 800K method the SEASONING requirements have expanded greatly to cover the entire year. Before it was three months before for the 800K, now it is two months before, and three after, while for the remainder of the year you can't go below 400k.

Some offices are already handing out show bank book orders for 90 days AFTER, meaning those that do go under will most likely have their extensions cancelled and worse.

People that say the rules haven't changed are either intentionally lying or are greatly misinformed.

please correct me if wrong but what the only changes i learn from this post

is, 

1. you now have to season and hold the 800k an extra few months

2. cant go below 400k at any time.

 

Sorry but i cant really see what the fuss is about?

 

I dont know, but for staying long term over 10 years i assume you would have had to show the 800k several times anyway when reapplying or getting an extension?

 

so in the old rules, you would have spent money and then had to top up the 800k anyway?

 

it seems to be, the only problem would be if you never had the 800k in the first place and been fraudulently using agents?

 

[mngmn]

5 hours ago, GoodieAfterDark said:

I have to agree 100%, specially if your wife is a bar girl.

If you have married a bar girl immigration well be the very least of your problems mate.

[Cryingdick]

19 hours ago, The Theory said:

 

My brother in law offered me a piece of land in small town, Pennsylvania. I did not need to pay for it, for free. I did not take it, because of the same problem you mentioned about Maine. 

Depression would be even worse than snow at higher age.  

 

Build a a small cabin on the cheap and get a travel trailer and winter in the south. You could also just rent an airbnb down there as well. Given the type of squalid little boxes people tend to be living Thailand why not just build a studio cabin for $25,000? 

 

 

As far as the SS discussion I would take it early. If you don't need it throw it into index funds or the like. I am just over 40 and recently returned to the USA. I have decided against paying into SS because there aren't enough young people paying to make SS work in the long run. 

 

The national debt is skyrocketing and the driving force is SS and medical related. If the debt goes higher the dollar will drop because we will lose our credit rating as we have to pay a figure equal to defense spending just to service it. If the people that think the world ends in 12 years get in they will print money. On the other side debt has gone up under Trump. So either way I think it is a safe bet to take money now if you play it right. I think they are saying SS will hit a critical point of fail around the same time the world ends. It will be much sooner if they print a few trillion to prevent it.

 

Look at the posters who currently rely on SS. Why become like that? Seems to me for anybody wishing to leave the longer you wait the harder it gets, If the 800,000 Baht thing is a burden look what your money could have done since the beginning of the year if you could keep it compounding. The writing is on the wall for a pensioner on 65,000 or less if they are not at the very least pacing inflation.

 

 

[Berkshire]

13 hours ago, Gecko123 said:

It ain't Thailand that has changed so drastically? That's debatable. Climate, congestion, social environment, road safety, immigration policy, political repression, income inequality, rural poverty? Those problems are real, brother, and they're not gonna go away simply by joining a Norman Vincent Peale study group . But I do appreciate your SU SU spirit!

Thailand has changed....just like every country in the world.  That's normal.  What I notice is that some expats in Thailand have a very difficult time admitting that THEY'VE changed.  Including yourself.  While your TVF posts are certainly not 100% proof, I've noticed that you have changed.

 

Me?  Darn right I've changed in the 15+ yrs I've been here.  I've gotten older.  I'm not the "hansum man" I used to be, literally.  So the females (and others I suppose) may not react to me the same way as before.  And I've got less energy than before, not as excited or enthusiastic about seeing and doing new things.  And maybe I've gotten less patient and more intolerant, not to mention cynical.  And I can see the generation gap widening, especially as it relates to technology and social media.  My attitude is not always as positive as it used to be....things I need to work on.  It's all mostly personal and internal.  So at least I look inside myself and not blame others.  Well, I do blame the current President of the USA for the state of my home country, but that's totally off-topic.   

[Olmate]

Advice from a 40 year old to those of us retired 70+ year olds. 

34 minutes ago, Cryingdick said:

 

Build a a small cabin on the cheap and get a travel trailer and winter in the south. You could also just rent an airbnb down there as well. Given the type of squalid little boxes people tend to be living Thailand why not just build a studio cabin for $25,000? 

 

 

As far as the SS discussion I would take it early. If you don't need it throw it into index funds or the like. I am just over 40 and recently returned to the USA. I have decided against paying into SS because there aren't enough young people paying to make SS work in the long run. 

 

The national debt is skyrocketing and the driving force is SS and medical related. If the debt goes higher the dollar will drop because we will lose our credit rating as we have to pay a figure equal to defense spending just to service it. If the people that think the world ends in 12 years get in they will print money. On the other side debt has gone up under Trump. So either way I think it is a safe bet to take money now if you play it right. I think they are saying SS will hit a critical point of fail around the same time the world ends. It will be much sooner if they print a few trillion to prevent it.

 

Look at the posters who currently rely on SS. Why become like that? Seems to me for anybody wishing to leave the longer you wait the harder it gets, If the 800,000 Baht thing is a burden look what your money could have done since the beginning of the year if you could keep it compounding. The writing is on the wall for a pensioner on 65,000 or less if they are not at the very least pacing inflation.

 

 

 

[Cryingdick]

9 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Advice from a 40 year old to those of us retired 70+ year olds. 

 

 

On the off chance that some of those won't wait around in Thailand until they are 70 year olds. Much of what I say is true. Sitting around with their last 800,000 lousy left and letting it diminish with no returns at all. I was mostly talking to the guy who was thinking of taking his social security early. Not sure what age he is but money now is better than nothing later. 

 

If you are seventy years old or more then either you die with less quality of life or you can actually do something proactive for your final years. So if you want to see your purchasing power decrease in your twilight years. Keep your last nest egg in a Thai bank doing nothing and let the ship steer itself. 

 

I think there many guys (perhaps a few women, however the women here seem a little smarter as a whole) on here that are 40s 50s 60s who can benefit from my advice. If you feel that you can not keep doing it your way. One thing that I noticed is the older members always reduce the conversation to only what they require other people still exist as well,

Edited March 20, 2019 by Cryingdick

[marcusarelus]

53 minutes ago, mngmn said:

If you have married a bar girl immigration well be the very least of your problems mate.

Do you have enough experience to comment or are you relying on Thai Visa as your source of knowledge? 

[Orton Rd]

6 hours ago, GoodieAfterDark said:

I think Thais are very social people. Usually they are in large groups eating or  doing different activities together.(not necessarily beating foreigners)  If you are not a social person, or you are  introvert having a hard time to make friends or trust people, then Thailand will be a difficult place to live in. 

Sitting on the floor eating som tam and looking lakorn on ch 7, endlessly taking photos of each other and of their food, drinking crap beer like leo, talking about lottery numbers and the neighbours and then falling asleep, it's a wonderful life ????

[marcusarelus]

9 minutes ago, Orton Rd said:

Sitting on the floor eating som tam and looking lakorn on ch 7, endlessly taking photos of each other and of their food, drinking crap beer like leo, talking about lottery numbers and the neighbours and then falling asleep, it's a wonderful life ????

OAEP, the national nuclear research center of Thailand, is a governmental institution under the Ministry of Science about 500 people work there in between  eating som tam and drinking crap beer. 

[Gecko123]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

Thailand has changed....just like every country in the world.  That's normal.  What I notice is that some expats in Thailand have a very difficult time admitting that THEY'VE changed.  Including yourself.  While your TVF posts are certainly not 100% proof, I've noticed that you have changed.

 

Me?  Darn right I've changed in the 15+ yrs I've been here.  I've gotten older.  I'm not the "hansum man" I used to be, literally.  So the females (and others I suppose) may not react to me the same way as before.  And I've got less energy than before, not as excited or enthusiastic about seeing and doing new things.  And maybe I've gotten less patient and more intolerant, not to mention cynical.  And I can see the generation gap widening, especially as it relates to technology and social media.  My attitude is not always as positive as it used to be....things I need to work on.  It's all mostly personal and internal.  So at least I look inside myself and not blame others.  Well, I do blame the current President of the USA for the state of my home country, but that's totally off-topic.   

I think sorting out changes in perspective as you get older from changes to what is going on around you is pretty easy. At least I feel that is the case with me, and I think I've been pretty self-objective.

 

If there's one thing which has unleashed a willingness to voice criticism towards Thailand it would be the sense that I'm being judged, looked down upon, treated like I don't measure up, or can't be trusted, in a word, being made to feel inferior. That's an all to familiar feeling from back in the States, and when I'm treated like that, you're gonna get pushback. You're gonna hear 'You think you're better than me, what about this, what about that?' defensive type comments.

 

'Oh, in order to live here you have to keep 800K in the bank for all practical purposes year round? What about the 95% of Thais who don't have that kind of money in the bank? Or you need to know where I am at all times within 24 hours, but it's no problem when Thais leave people who haven't lived there for decades on their house registry? Pointing out this hypocrisy is long overdue.

 

From the 'I can't speak English, and I'm not gonna make the slightest effort to understand your Thai' attitude, the rudeness, the unreliability, the dishonesty? I know you - and plenty of other diehard loyalists - know exactly what I'm talking about, because -as you pointed out - I, too, was once in the same camp.

 

But I have never been married to any agenda, be it Thai- apologist or Thai-basher. I just believe in saying what I honestly think. I think there are some people on this forum who are so married to their forum persona, they're trapped, they can't voice anything that deviates from the stance they've taken or persona they've created. I'm not one of them. It took a lot of courage to break out of my earlier persona which no longer reflected how I felt. I knew there were people who would feel I had broken rank with them and those who would smugly claim I had finally come to see what they knew all along, but I'm really glad I did. It felt very liberating, and I encourage everyone to be honest about their feelings as they evolve.

Edited March 20, 2019 by Gecko123

[marcusarelus]

2 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I think sorting out changes in perspective as you get older from changes to what is going on around you is pretty easy. At least I feel that is the case with me, and I think I've been pretty self-objective.

 

If there's one thing which has unleashed a willingness to voice criticism towards Thailand it would be the sense that I'm being judged, looked down upon, treated like I don't measure up, or can't be trusted, in a word, being made to feel inferior. That's an all to familiar feeling from back in the States, and when I'm treated like that, you're gonna get pushback from me. You're gonna hear 'You think you're better than me, what about this, what about that?' defensive type comments.

 

'Oh, in order to live here you have to keep 800K in the bank for all practical purposes year round? What about the 95% of Thais who don't have that kind of money in the bank? Or we need to know where I am at all times within 24 hours, but it's no problem when Thais leave people who haven't lived there for decades on their house registry? Pointing out this hypocrisy is long overdue.

 

From the 'I can't speak English, and I'm not gonna make the slightest effort to understand your Thai' attitude, the rudeness, the unreliability, the dishonesty? I know you - and plenty of other diehard loyalists - know exactly what I'm talking about, because -as you pointed out - I, too, was once in the same camp.

 

But I have never been married to any agenda, be it Thai-apologist or Thai-basher. I just believe in saying what I honestly believe. I think there are some people on this forum who are so married to their forum persona, they're trapped, they can't voice anything that deviates from the persona they've created. I'm not one of them. It took a lot of courage to break out of my earlier persona which no longer reflected how I felt. I knew there were people who would feel I had broken rank with them and those who would smugly claim I had finally come to see what they knew all along, but I'm really glad I did. I feel freer as a result, and encourage everyone to be honest about their feelings as they evolve.

You did write, "Climate, congestion, social environment, road safety, immigration policy, political repression, income inequality, rural poverty? Those problems are real"  But you didn't say that out of 195 countries in the world all but 20 have the same problems or worse. 

 

Also. 

 

There is no hypocrisy in requiring you to keep 800,000 in the bank or keeping track of your movements it is in fact prudent as you are not a Thai.  If you want to be treated like a Thai get Thai citizenship.  

 

I have more freedom than you.  Because no one tracks my movements and the government is far less obtrusive or harmful than America who tried to kill me numerous times (got drafted) and taxed me till i bled. 

[JTXR]

Good post.  One of the reasons I stay in BKK is that the TM-30 nonsense doesn't apply here (so far, at least).  I too would find that very close to a deal breaker.

 

As for moving back to the U.S., if I did it (I'm close to 70), I'd definitely rent.  Screw the hassle of owning.  Because health insurance at my age is a problem, the one thing that would certainly make me repatriate is a serious health issue.  Access to Medicare would outweigh almost all other economic considerations.