NZ bans semi-automatic and assault rifles after mass shooting

emptypockets · March 21, 2019

4 hours ago, samran said:

Australia and NZ give each other automatic work and residency rights.

Might be an idea to check on that

samran · March 21, 2019

1 minute ago, emptypockets said:

Might be an idea to check on that

Why? It’s been working pretty well for a century.

emptypockets · March 21, 2019

1 minute ago, samran said:

Why? It’s been working pretty well for a century.

There are quite a few kiwi criminals getting booted out. They have no right of residency until they become Oz citizens. Quite a few poms too.

roo860 · March 21, 2019

I wish people would stop thinking she is the second coming of Jesus Christ. John Howard did this over twenty years ago in the aftermath of the slaughter by another nutter in Tasmania.
Just another politician using any situation for self aggrandisement.
Call me cynical.... I really don't care... Too old and worldy wise to worry.

Quite agree.

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Hanaguma · March 21, 2019

Not sure about NZ, but in the United States the number of murders committed using rifles of all kinds (semi automatic, "assault rifles", whatever those are, hunting rifles) is statistically insignificant. More people are killed with bare hands than with rifles. More people are killed with clubs and other blunt objects than rifles. The weapon of choice is the handgun, yet nobody proposes any kind if significant regulation on handguns. But what this does tell us is that politicians who want to grandstand without actually solving the problem of gun violence can do so by whining about so-called "assault weapons" and "weapons of war" and gain social justice points, while actually not doing anything to solve the problem.

In NZ, what is undeniable is that the murder rate is at its lowest point in 40 years. There have been only 7-10 gun related murders a year for most of the same time period. At least up to this year. So I don't see what a ban on any kind of firearms will do to make it even lower.

sonos99 · March 21, 2019

14 minutes ago, Hanaguma said:

Not sure about NZ, but in the United States the number of murders committed using rifles of all kinds (semi automatic, "assault rifles", whatever those are, hunting rifles) is statistically insignificant. More people are killed with bare hands than with rifles. More people are killed with clubs and other blunt objects than rifles. The weapon of choice is the handgun, yet nobody proposes any kind if significant regulation on handguns. But what this does tell us is that politicians who want to grandstand without actually solving the problem of gun violence can do so by whining about so-called "assault weapons" and "weapons of war" and gain social justice points, while actually not doing anything to solve the problem.

In NZ, what is undeniable is that the murder rate is at its lowest point in 40 years. There have been only 7-10 gun related murders a year for most of the same time period. At least up to this year. So I don't see what a ban on any kind of firearms will do to make it even lower.

Handguns are already extremely restricted in NZ. You need an additional endorsement on your license to own a handgun. These handgun endorsements are only issued to target shooters. You have to be a member of a shooting club and have to be sponsored by the club. I believe this has helped to keep gun crime low in NZ.

lucky2008 · March 21, 2019

Banning something doesn't make it disappear

Violent crimes can be committed without guns

Gun laws don’t work because criminals, those going to go ahead with violent crime, aren’t going to listen to them.

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

What slippery slope? Also right now certain weapons are banned.

I understand this law, thanks.

OK. Glad you understand this new NZ law or modification.

Could you write or include a link to a detailed and informed explanation of it including which models of firearms are included. I haven’t seen that and apparently what I have heard is incorrect.

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

I wish people would stop thinking she is the second coming of Jesus Christ. John Howard did this over twenty years ago in the aftermath of the slaughter by another nutter in Tasmania.
Just another politician using any situation for self aggrandisement.
Call me cynical.... I really don't care... Too old and worldy wise to worry.

The Americans did this with Obama as well.

Read something about it being the result of a loss of religion in their lives. They need to keep creating new gods in the form of their political leaders.

It seems to be supported when you look at how angry they get when any ill word is spoken about their new deity. It used to be even a supporter of a politician could easily admit that politico had made some mistakes but not anymore.

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

Handguns are already extremely restricted in NZ. You need an additional endorsement on your license to own a handgun. These handgun endorsements are only issued to target shooters. You have to be a member of a shooting club and have to be sponsored by the club. I believe this has helped to keep gun crime low in NZ.

Did I read correctly that this NZ nutter had 3 handguns?

Chomper Higgot · March 21, 2019

4 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

Did I read correctly that this NZ nutter had 3 handguns?

He may have been nuts, but he was a white racist terrorists, his crimes were rooted in his racism.

While he was in NZ he was an Australian.

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

He may have been nuts, but he was a white racist terrorists, his crimes were rooted in his racism.

While he was in NZ he was an Australian.

Well I do apologize for not being clear on the fact he was not a New Zealander proper. National identity is important. I know because it frustrates me when people say Canadians and Americans are the same...Lol...no way no how.

But as for nutter or white power, nazi or the like. Well I will wait to hear the details of the investigation. He sure sounds like a nutter to me. Did you read all the countries he has spent his travels in? Is that where white power nazis typically take their holidays?

Pakistan?

North Korea? Dennis Rodman vacations there. I rest my case...Nutter first.

But what about my actual question relevant to the thread.

What kind of firearms were the 5 he had and would this new law have kept him from having them?

Sure seems like limiting access to firearms to only NZ Kiwis would have accomplished the same thing as this knee jerk legislation. And, yes, when the victims have not even been properly buried yet and new laws are already implemented then it qualifies as knee jerk.

simple1 · March 21, 2019

7 hours ago, emptypockets said:

There are quite a few kiwi criminals getting booted out. They have no right of residency until they become Oz citizens. Quite a few poms too.

Dual citizens can have Oz citizenship revoked if they are sentenced to more than six years in prison, as well as other grounds.

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

A poster above said his crimes were rooted in his racism.

Did this nutter have a history of racist acts?

Did he show violence or racism at his workplace?

If there is no such history them I think he was a nutter first who fell into white power nazi sentiments.

Like some of these muslim terrorists that drank booze, smoked pot, got busted for crimes and only later became radicalized. They were nutters first and muslims second.

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Peasandmash · March 21, 2019

Once upon a time, a law was passed and then the nice little Kiwi's were able to sleep peacefully at night and live happily ever after.

The joy of a good fairies tail... oops...fairy tale.

sonos99 · March 21, 2019

1 hour ago, ShortTimed said:

Did I read correctly that this NZ nutter had 3 handguns?

No idea. He was a member of a gun club so it is possible that he was sponsored by them to obtain a handgun

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

Wonderful well done the public doesent need semi auto long guns.imo semiauto hand guns should be allowed for self protection

Tug,

Just for the sake of argument...Lol

The reason given for creating this more restrictive gun policy was because people died.

So whats to say the same excuse won’t be used when someone dies from handgun violence or long guns that are not affected by this new law? Say goodbye to your other guns.

Thats why this is called a “slippery slope”. When you start sliding then its difficult to stop.

There were other preventative measures that could have been taken such as eliminating the law which allowed a foreigner to own guns at all.

Edit:

In the days following the attack Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern confirmed gunman used five weapons, including two semi-automatic weapons, two shotguns, and a lever action firearm.

ShortTimed · March 21, 2019

Now the darned politicians in Canada are going to force us to wear diapers also:

https://ipolitics.ca/2019/03/20/liberal-gun-review-to-include-type-of-semi-auto-rifles-nz-shooter-used-blair/

Spidey · March 22, 2019

32 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

Tug,

Just for the sake of argument...Lol

The reason given for creating this more restrictive gun policy was because people died.

So whats to say the same excuse won’t be used when someone dies from handgun violence or long guns that are not affected by this new law? Say goodbye to your other guns.

Thats why this is called a “slippery slope”. When you start sliding then its difficult to stop.

There were other preventative measures that could have been taken such as eliminating the law which allowed a foreigner to own guns at all.

It's not an excuse, it's a reason. The term "slippery slope" usually indicates going from a good place to a bad place. In the UK, the overwhelming public opinion was that the introduction of highly restrictive gun ownership laws took us from a bad place to a good place. Sounds like Kiwis are of the same opinion, generally.

The only country that I know of where a reasonable percentage of the general population wouldn't see gun restrictions as a good thing is the US and that percentage is falling day by day, mass shooting by mass shooting. Yanks are obviously slow learners.

I think that the fact that the shooter was an Aussie is a complete red herring, could just as easily have been a Kiwi or any other nationality. Every country has it's white supremacist nut jobs.

From my personal experience, the Western country where this was least likely to happen was Norway. Scandanavians, generally are the most grounded people I have encountered. Remember Anders Behring Breivik?

Edited March 22, 2019 by Spidey

ShortTimed · March 22, 2019

It's not an excuse, it's a reason. The term "slippery slope" usually indicates going from a good place to a bad place. In the UK, the overwhelming public opinion was that the introduction of highly restrictive gun ownership laws took us from a bad place to a good place. Sounds like Kiwis are of the same opinion, generally.

The only country that I know of where a reasonable percentage of the general population wouldn't see gun restrictions as a good thing is the US and that percentage is falling day by day, mass shooting by mass shooting. Yanks are obviously slow learners.

I think that the fact that the shooter was an Aussie is a complete red herring, could just as easily have been a Kiwi or any other nationality. Every country has it's white supremacist nut jobs.

From my personal experience, the Western country where this was least likely to happen was Norway. Scandanavians, generally are the most grounded people I have encountered. Remember Anders Behring Breivik?

Good post. Sound logic.

I just happen to be a responsible law-abiding citizen who owns long guns in NW Canada so I have a personal interest in not being the one who is penalized for the actions of some nutter.

Nobody was talking about making cars and knives illegal after they have been used in terrorist attacks but I get it, many people are afraid of guns. To me, guns are no different than any other tool I own and what I have a healthy fear of are bears...

And meddlesome politicians but I can’t do anything about them but vote them out...Lol

But I would add that not only does every country have its white power nutjobs, it now has its muslim nutjobs since they have been welcomed in and given free services to boot.

I read on CNN this morning that after Australia banned firearms after Port Authur that gun related deaths have dropped only 5.5%.

Thats a lot of give for such little benefit.

No disrespect ever intended towards Aussies or Kiwis.

sonos99 · March 22, 2019

33 minutes ago, ShortTimed said:

Tug,

Just for the sake of argument...Lol

The reason given for creating this more restrictive gun policy was because people died.

So whats to say the same excuse won’t be used when someone dies from handgun violence or long guns that are not affected by this new law? Say goodbye to your other guns.

Thats why this is called a “slippery slope”. When you start sliding then its difficult to stop.

There were other preventative measures that could have been taken such as eliminating the law which allowed a foreigner to own guns at all.

Edit:

In the days following the attack Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern confirmed gunman used five weapons, including two semi-automatic weapons, two shotguns, and a lever action firearm.

Of course other weapons can and do kill people. Of course criminals do not obey laws. Everyone is aware of this. The purpose of the legislation is to close loopholes in the gun laws. For example an AR15 can be legally purchased by a Category A license holder as long as it has a 7 shot magazine. If you purchase the same weapon with a 30 shot magazine it is deemed to be a different category of weapon (a MSSA military style semi automatic) which requires a Catagory E license. However large capacity magazines can easily be purchased online and in NZ gun shops without any license effectively converting the weapon into a MSSA.

As it is so easy to convert the weapon into a MSSA the govt has passed regulations (to be followed by legislation) which reclassify any weapon that be converted into a MSSA (eg by the addition of a high capacity magazine) as a MSSA.

These weapons are not being banned but you will require a Catagory E license to own one. Apparently the government is looking at the whole licensing process so I suspect obtaining a licence will be more difficult in future. I believe they will also make it more difficult to obtain ammunition.

AR 15s and similar weapons are not widely used by hunters in NZ. They are used by DOC (Department of Conservation) for culling and are used by the commercial deer recovery operations who shoot from helicopters. It likely that there will be exceptions made for these groups especially DOC.

Spidey · March 22, 2019

1 minute ago, ShortTimed said:

Good post. Sound logic.

I just happen to be a responsible law-abiding citizen who owns long guns in NW Canada so I have a personal interest in not being the one who is penalized for the actions of some nutter.

Nobody was talking about making cars and knives illegal after they have been used in terrorist attacks but I get it, many people are afraid of guns. To me, guns are no different than any other tool I own and what I have a healthy fear of are bears...

And meddlesome politicians but I can’t do anything about them but vote them out...Lol

I read on CNN this morning that after Australia banned firearms after Port Authur that gun related deaths have dropped only 5.5%.

Thats a lot of give for such little benefit.
No disrespect ever intended towards Aussies or Kiwis.

I fully understand your POV. Had a work colleague who emigrated to Vancouver to work as a lineman. Once got stuck at the top of a telegraph pole for several hours with an angry bear guarding him!

Had another work colleague who was a life long target pistol shooter. Claimed that it was a great stress reliever. When hand guns were banned in the UK, he was forced to give up the hobby that he loved. 12 months later, at the age of 60, he died of a heart attack.

However, even one life saved, and in the UK it has been much more than that, is worth all the pain suffered by gun hobbyists. Guns are just not part of modern civilised society. Ever thought of taking up golf? 555

ShortTimed · March 22, 2019

Of course other weapons can and do kill people. Of course criminals do not obey laws. Everyone is aware of this. The purpose of the legislation is to close loopholes in the gun laws. For example an AR15 can be legally purchased by a Category A license holder as long as it has a 7 shot magazine. If you purchase the same weapon with a 30 shot magazine it is deemed to be a different category of weapon (a MSSA military style semi automatic) which requires a Catagory E license. However large capacity magazines can easily be purchased online and in NZ gun shops without any license effectively converting the weapon into a MSSA. As it is so easy to convert the weapon into a MSSA the govt has passed regulations (to be followed by legislation) which reclassify any weapon that be converted into a MSSA (eg by the addition of a high capacity magazine) as a MSSA.

These weapons are not being banned but you will require a Catagory E license to own one. Apparently the government is looking at the whole licensing process so I suspect obtaining a licence will be more difficult in future. I believe they will also make it more difficult to obtain ammunition.

AR 15s and similar weapons are not widely used by hunters in NZ. They are used by DOC (Department of Conservation) for culling and are used by the commercial deer recovery operations who shoot from helicopters. It likely that there will be exceptions made for these groups especially DOC.

Highly informative post.

I guess I am not understanding why not just making access to high capacity magazines illegal since that appears to be the issue.

Something like the US did in 1994. It was quite successful until it expired a decade later.

You guys have been real good about this conversation and what NZ chooses to do is not my business. Its just to my way of thinking, “throwing the baby out with the bath water”. An over-reaction brought on by an emotional crisis.

Did you see the stickers on that nutters weapon? If he brought that to a gun club prior to this shooting and others saw all that nutter crap on there then they share some of the blame this happened. I read a report from a fellow who says he was a member of the same gun club and heard the shooter having crazy talk with other nazi types and he reported to the police but the police did nothing. I can’t substantiate that but it was a major news report.

Now every gun owner suffers because people that should have been paying attention weren’t paying attention.

Regardless, I have used up enough space on this thread spouting off. Surely there must be some other issue more local to this fine country that I can have an opinion about...Lol

Cheers Gents

Kieran00001 · March 22, 2019

13 hours ago, seajae said:

I have been shooting since I was a teenager, we lived on a farm so it was natural. I honestly cannot see why a good shooter needs a semi automatic, a single shot is fine if you can shoot straight, reloading is fairly quick as well. One shot is all you should need for killing game, if you cant do it you shouldnt be shooting anyway

That's how I was looking at it, until a Kiwi came along and informed me of their need for semi's to fulfill their desire to gun down herds of goats!!!!

sonos99 · March 22, 2019

13 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

That's how I was looking at it, until a Kiwi came along and informed me of their need for semi's to fulfill their desire to gun down herds of goats!!!!

Very few kiwis will use a AR 15 type weapon for hunting. They are not suited for that purpose. That being said some game animals reach high populations in certain areas. They damage the land and the forests. They are culled on public land by DOC. DOC also grant concessions to the commercial hunting companies to help control the animals. For culling they will use semi autos often shooting from helicopters. I could understand private landowners using such weapons for pest control.

Spidey · March 22, 2019

5 minutes ago, sonos99 said:

They are not suited for that purpose. That being said some game animals reach high populations in certain areas. They damage the land and the forests. They are culled on public land by DOC. DOC also grant concessions to the commercial hunting companies to help control the animals. For culling they will use semi autos often shooting from helicopters. I could understand private landowners using such weapons for pest control.

Even with the Uk's very restrictive gun laws, this is exactly what happens in the UK although I don't think that professionals, in the UK, use helicopters or semi automatic weapons. It's more humane to use precision weapons where a single shot is usually sufficient for an instant kill.

Edited March 22, 2019 by Spidey

Scott · March 22, 2019

Off-topic posts removed. Continue and face a suspension.

pedro01 · March 22, 2019

Gun control is one of those issues that will take a generation to resolve.

As a Brit - I can't see why you need guns. I was never around them as a kid. I have no interest in them. I did of course play with toy guns as a child.

Many Americans - can't see a life without guns. They were raised to believe a certain way - and they hold those beliefs strongly.

This does not make those beliefs right or wrong. It's like religion - if you are raised with certain beliefs, you tend to hold them strongly. I don't think that America is more free than anywhere else. I don't think guns make the people more free or more able to fight off a bad government.

I think it's simply a matter of being raised with beliefs on both sides of the argument. Thing is - my British beliefs tend not to cause mass shootings, so I'm happy to keep them. I have 2 children of school age, it'd actually make a lot of sense for me to relocate to Chicago as that's the nerve center for my industry. I simply would not feel comfortable with my kids attending an American school though.

Each to their own. I don't get gun ownership and I never will.

xylophone · March 22, 2019

6 hours ago, ShortTimed said:

Sure seems like limiting access to firearms to only NZ Kiwis would have accomplished the same thing as this knee jerk legislation. And, yes, when the victims have not even been properly buried yet and new laws are already implemented then it qualifies as knee jerk.

You can attach whatever label you want to this law change in NZ, however for me and millions of other Kiwis, it was the right thing to do.

The type of weapons that have been banned are for use in wars and have no place in everyday society, so the banning of them is absolutely correct.

As another poster has said, it would not take an amendment change to do something similar in the USA, however the public have been brainwashed by the NRA, and I like this quote which sums it up well, "In the USA the gun lobby has been very influential in convincing people the Second Amendment prohibits any form of gun control, which affects the politics over even modest measures".

So in reality the banning of these weapons in the USA could take effect because it in no way prohibits any US citizen from "having the right to bear arms", just that they cannot be this particular type of weapon, however it is highly unlikely that things will change with a corrupt idiot in charge of the country, strongly backed by the NRA in one way or another.

thaibeachlovers · March 22, 2019

On ‎3‎/‎21‎/‎2019 at 5:33 PM, sonos99 said:

What would be the point in keeping an illegal weapon if you couldn't use it. Why would a gun owner risk losing his gun license, confiscation of his other weapons and other penalties maybe even jail time.

I believe that registration will be required going forward so when you renew your license you will be required to register all existing weapons.

I could be wrong but I think It is only semi automatic centre fire rifles that are being banned and gun parts such as bump stocks and large capacity magazines. . I don't think they are banning semi auto. 22 s. I'm not sure about semi auto shotguns.

I don't believe most NZers are against guns so no need for gun owners to keep a low profile. They are however against semi auto or auto weapons with large capacity mags.

and how many criminals will be registering all their semi auto weapons?

As usual, only law abiding people will be affected.

Let's not forget that NZ has a huge gang problem.

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