Do you believe in God and why

[Jonah Tenner]

[Sunmaster]

On 4/21/2019 at 3:35 PM, steve73 said:

I see a few posts here have strayed onto the subject of death...

 

But what exactly is death? The heart stopping or the brain losing consciousness? Either can occur and be reversed and life can continue largely unaffected.

 

A heart attack often proves fatal when the blood (or more accurately, the oxygen supply) is cut off to the brain, which then loses consciousness. CPR can keep the blood circulating and the brain supplied with oxygen for quite some time, and if the heart can be restarted, then life can be extended.

 

Strangulation kills either by preventing breathing when death can take a few minutes, or by trapping the carotid artery, depriving the brain of blood and consciousness is lost within a few seconds, and if continued death follows soon after, perhaps even with the heart still pumping for a while....

 

But what about those unfortunate to be killed by the guillotine? Would they remain "conscious" for a few seconds as the head rolls into the basket? Or would the shock render them unconscious immediately?

 

Just when you think it's safe to die we read about recent research on pig brains that show "signs of activity" many hours after they've been removed.

https://www.bbc.com/news/health-47960874

 

 

Dying is not always like switching an on/off switch. Many times it's a process where consciousness gradually leaves the body. 
Think about it this way,...consciousness is not a product of the body but rather the body is a product of consciousness. Consciousness was there before the body and will be there once the body is no more.
 

I know science lovers will surely descend upon me and rip me apart, saying I have no proof, but this is what I gathered from my studies and my personal experiences. Furthermore, the fact that people have left their bodies during surgery, and afterwards telling in details things that went on in and outside the operating room, are well documented by doctors. 

[sweatalot]

1 hour ago, transam said:

The Bible has proven to be scientifically, and historically accurate.

that I don't believe 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, CMNightRider said:

The Bible says otherwise.  The Bible has proven to be scientifically, and historically accurate.  It was written over a period of about 1600 years by 40 different authors in 13 different countries, and even thought it consists of 66 books, it reads as one book.

 

Jesus confirmed the Bible was the word of God and was 100% accurate.  Don't be blinded by Satan.  

ehm...the world was created in 7 days? only 20.000 years ago? Dinosaurs come from where exactly? 

Just to mention a few of the historically accurate and scientifically proven facts.

[Bang Bang]

Let's assume that God created Man.

 

Ques then: who created God? Must have been another God. But who created that fella? Another God obviously.

 

Now back up a sec. If one God can create another God then why would the current one be latest and last? No reason at all. So we have a sequence of Gods infinite in both directions: ... <- God <- God <- God <- ...

 

But then this sequence would lead to nothing and come from nothing which makes no sense. So, the sequence must be circular:

      God

    /        \

  God         God

    \           /

      ...      ...

        God

 

But a circular sequence has no start or end which means it couldn't get off the ground in the first place. Unless it had help from the only other being intelligent enough: Man.

 

Therefore, Man created God. But this contradicts our starting hypothesis that God created Man. 

 

Unless they are interchangeable.

[steve73]

Of course Man created God... he even did it in his own image.

 

Man then shifted all his imperfections (and sins) onto this God, and this excused man from taking responsibility for his own actions.

He could wage war (and kill) in the name of (his) God.

He could persuade other to follow in his footsteps (provided they pay a tithe for the privilege).

 

Trouble is too many other men created their own personal gods, and tried to get others to follow them....  so war is encouraged.

 

The honest man is happy that he shares his own god with no one else, and is content. 

[Mansell]

On April 20, 2019 at 1:33 PM, Scutty said:

Very crude and not too funny . 

Very funny....I haven't seen him since the sixties.....like him then, like him now.

[Enki]

5 hours ago, Jonah Tenner said:

Actually when I came to Thailand to meet my GF the first time (we obviously "met" via internet) I brought her a silver Thors hammer. She is wearing it every thursday/Thorsday (and she is a teacher in a christian private school, the christians obviously don't know what it is, quite funny)

[notmyself]

5 hours ago, sweatalot said:

that I don't believe 

 

It's a joke.

[gunderhill]

14 hours ago, CMNightRider said:

The Bible says otherwise.  The Bible has proven to be scientifically, and historically accurate.  It was written over a period of about 1600 years by 40 different authors in 13 different countries, and even thought it consists of 66 books, it reads as one book.

 

Jesus confirmed the Bible was the word of God and was 100% accurate.  Don't be blinded by Satan.  

You sure have got  it real  bad.

[Nemises]

 

Senior magistrate calls for all bibles to be removed from courtrooms in Victoria

Genevieve Alison, Exclusive, Herald Sun

April 23, 2019 1:24pm

Subscriber only

A senior magistrate is calling for all Bibles to be removed from courtrooms in Victoria, labelling them relics that belong in a museum.

The well-known Melbourne magistrate likened the Bible and Koran to the “gavel, the wig, quill and ink” — objects he says have no place in a modern courtroom.

The proposal, appearing in an email chain seen by the Herald Sun, was prompted by an incident in which a Bible could not be found for a witness who was giving evidence via remote video link.

Witnesses who wish to swear on oath to tell the truth, rather than simply affirm they will do so, may take the oath while holding a Bible or Koran or other religious text, depending on their religion, but are not legally required to do so.

The email, which was sent to all Victorian magistrates and judicial registrars, encouraged others to weigh in on the proposed change.

The magistrate likened the bible to courtroom ‘relics’ such as the gavel and wig.

It read: “I have asked (a court registrar) to consider removing all the Bibles, Korans, etcetera from the courts. In my opinion they are relics from another time and like the gavel, the wig and the quill and ink, they belong in a museum, not a modern court. Am curious about what others think.”

The push to remove the religious texts follows legislation introduced last year, which took effect last month, updating Victoria’s laws relating to oaths, affidavits, and statutory declarations.

Last year the then Attorney-General, Martin Pakula, said the changes would make the legal system “fairer and more equal” and ensure that people were not discouraged from giving evidence by the formal wording of an oath or affirmation.

“This is an important step towards modernising and clarifying processes affecting thousands of Victorians who have previously had to struggle with some confusing and antiquated laws,” he said.

[transam]

14 hours ago, sweatalot said:

that I don't believe 

I did not write that post......????

 

 

Edited April 24, 2019 by transam

[sweatalot]

2 hours ago, transam said:

I did not write that post......????

 

Sorry wrong quote. CMNightrider wrote it.

 

[dick dasterdly]

18 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Dying is not always like switching an on/off switch. Many times it's a process where consciousness gradually leaves the body. 
Think about it this way,...consciousness is not a product of the body but rather the body is a product of consciousness. Consciousness was there before the body and will be there once the body is no more.
 

I know science lovers will surely descend upon me and rip me apart, saying I have no proof, but this is what I gathered from my studies and my personal experiences. Furthermore, the fact that people have left their bodies during surgery, and afterwards telling in details things that went on in and outside the operating room, are well documented by doctors. 

I hope you're right.

 

As a result of my childhood 'out of body' experiences - it's the hope that I prefer.

Edited April 24, 2019 by dick dasterdly

[steve73]

18 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Dying is not always like switching an on/off switch. Many times it's a process where consciousness gradually leaves the body. 

I agree that's it's not a simple on/off switch.. 

In many cases it's probably more like a dodgy light switch/connection; the occasional flicker, a period of dimming, and perhaps a final brightness, before it's extinguished forever.  In other cases the light barely get's above a flicker for its entire existence. 

 

Then just the physical remains to be redistributed back into the melting pot.

 

I read somewhere that every living person today contains a few Carbon atoms from every person that's ever lived before them, although I'd assume there'd be a time lag to incorporate all most recent additions.

[transam]

6 minutes ago, steve73 said:

I agree that's it's not a simple on/off switch.. 

In many cases it's probably more like a dodgy light switch/connection; the occasional flicker, a period of dimming, and perhaps a final brightness, before it's extinguished forever.  In other cases the light barely get's above a flicker for its entire existence. 

 

Then just the physical remains to be redistributed back into the melting pot.

 

I read somewhere that every living person today contains a few Carbon atoms from every person that's ever lived before them, although I'd assume there'd be a time lag to incorporate all most recent additions.

I read I am related to King Edward II.....????

[GarryP]

1 minute ago, transam said:

I read I am related to King Edward II.....????

Nice potatoes those.

[Sunmaster]

Another thing to think about...

For those who only believe what is rational, measurable and "categorizable".
Do you think love exists? Do you feel it for your family members, friends, pets etc?
If you say yes, how can you prove it exists? 
Can you measure its length, weigh it, tell me what color it is?
You can't. You can only describe it in very limiting words, because it's a personal experience. You can describe it by telling me the consequences of loving. Yet, when you describe it, others who feel the same can relate to it and understand what you're saying.

Now let's take it a step further. 
God, Spirit, the Universal Force is by definition the ultimate Force, infinite Love, the converging point of all that is Good, True and Beautiful. 
That's why I find it funny when people ask "Which God?". God, the way I see it, is non-dual, the Gods you're talking about are simply different manifestations of the ONE. They are ways to describe the undescribeable, to put into form/words something that is beyond form and words. Hence, those (human!) descriptions will always be imperfect and create imperfect/faulty understanding.

Our life's goal as a human species, ought to be to expand our ability to love. First we love our parents, our family, then friends, then spouse, then children, some love their country (this is were most people stop), but also YOURSELF, Mother Earth, all living beings and so on, up to feeling love for God itself.
 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Sunmaster

[transam]

4 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Another thing to think about...

For those who only believe what is rational, measurable and "categorizable".
Do you think love exists? Do you feel it for your family members, friends, pets etc?
If you say yes, how can you prove it exists? 
Can you measure its length, weigh it, tell me what color it is?
You can't. You can only describe it in very limiting words, because it's a personal experience. You can describe it by telling me the consequences of loving. Yet, when you describe it, others who feel the same can relate to it and understand what you're saying.

Now let's take it a step further. 
God, Spirit, the Universal Force is by definition the ultimate Force, infinite Love, the converging point of all that is Good, True and Beautiful. 
That's why I find it funny when people ask "Which God?". God, the way I see it, is non-dual, the Gods you're talking about are simply different manifestations of the ONE. They are ways to describe the undescribeable, to put into form/words something that is beyond form and words. Hence, those (human!) descriptions will always be imperfect and create imperfect/faulty understanding.

Our life's goal as a human species, ought to be to expand our ability to love. First we love our parents, our family, then friends, then spouse, then children (this is were most people stop), but also YOURSELF, country, Mother Earth, all living beings and so on, up to feeling love for God itself.

 

Well a read that Jesus was persieved to be the King of the Jews, yet his "father" never came to the aid of millions of Jews taken out by the German gov of the day.....Why was that...?

[Sunmaster]

11 minutes ago, transam said:

Well a read that Jesus was persieved to be the King of the Jews, yet his "father" never came to the aid of millions of Jews taken out by the German gov of the day.....Why was that...?

Jesus would tell you that "his father" is the same as "your father" and he would tell you that "the father" loves all his children equally, from the most saint to the worst mass murderer. "He" also gave people free will to choose on their own accord. How could he therefore intervene on behalf of one group and not the other?
If he would do something about it, then there would be no free will and he would have to intervene in every little dispute. Where do you draw the line? Would that life be worth living?

 

[transam]

2 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

Jesus would tell you that "his father" is the same as "your father" and he would tell you that "the father" loves all his children equally, from the most saint to the worst mass murderer. "He" also gave people free will to choose on their own accord. How could he therefore intervene on behalf of one group and not the other?
If he would do something about it, then there would be no free will and he would have to intervene in every little dispute. Where do you draw the line? Would that life be worth living?

 

Well I thought a couple of fish and loaves of bread fed thousands at a Jesus meeting..Was that not intervention...?

[Sunmaster]

5 minutes ago, transam said:

Well I thought a couple of fish and loaves of bread fed thousands at a Jesus meeting..Was that not intervention...?

I generally distrust "holy books", so you'll have to ask someone else.

[geoffbezoz]

7 minutes ago, transam said:

Well I thought a couple of fish and loaves of bread fed thousands at a Jesus meeting..Was that not intervention...?

After turning a bucketful of water into wine, then I guess after drinking that nobody really gave a sh$t about much else. ????

[transam]

3 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

I generally distrust "holy books", so you'll have to ask someone else.

But you follow a religion based on books.....????

[Sunmaster]

Just now, transam said:

But you follow a religion based on books.....????

What made you think, from all my posts, that I follow any religion??

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

What made you think, from all my posts, that I follow any religion??

Tell me you don't....????

[Skeptic7]

1 hour ago, Sunmaster said:

Another thing to think about...

For those who only believe what is rational, measurable and "categorizable".
Do you think love exists? Do you feel it for your family members, friends, pets etc?
If you say yes, how can you prove it exists? 
Can you measure its length, weigh it, tell me what color it is?
You can't. You can only describe it in very limiting words, because it's a personal experience. You can describe it by telling me the consequences of loving. Yet, when you describe it, others who feel the same can relate to it and understand what you're saying.

Now let's take it a step further. 
God, Spirit, the Universal Force is by definition the ultimate Force, infinite Love, the converging point of all that is Good, True and Beautiful. 
That's why I find it funny when people ask "Which God?". God, the way I see it, is non-dual, the Gods you're talking about are simply different manifestations of the ONE. They are ways to describe the undescribeable, to put into form/words something that is beyond form and words. Hence, those (human!) descriptions will always be imperfect and create imperfect/faulty understanding.

Our life's goal as a human species, ought to be to expand our ability to love. First we love our parents, our family, then friends, then spouse, then children, some love their country (this is were most people stop), but also YOURSELF, Mother Earth, all living beings and so on, up to feeling love for God itself.
 

Word, words, words. Woo. More words. Sounds nice but = nothing. All made up woo with no basis in reality. 

 

The emotion/feelings argument is just more inaccurate woo for misleading the ignorant, wishful and gullible. Total Deepak Chopra BS. Psychology explains emotions,  but regardless...a total non-issue because nothing is dependent on proving emotions exist. They don't make childish promises of some utopian afterlife...nor eternal terror and pain in a lake of fire. 

 

Even your last paragraph is terribly simplistic and flawed...though well intended...there is still absolutely zero need to finalize it with anything supernatural. Leave the woo out. We live in a natural world with natural laws...no gods, no demons, no heaven nor hell...just the natural universe.

Nothing supernatural about it.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Skeptic7

[transam]

1 minute ago, Skeptic7 said:

Word, words, words. Woo. More words. Sounds nice but = nothing. All made up woo with no basis in reality. 

 

The emotion/feelings argument is just more inaccurate woo for misleading the ignorant, wishful and gullible. Total Deepak Chopra BS. Psychology explains emotions,  but regardless...a total non-issue because nothing is dependent on proving emotions exist. They don't make childish promises of an some utopian afterlife...nor eternal terror and pain in a lake of fire. 

 

Even your last paragraph is terribly simplistic and flawed...though well intended...there is still absolutely zero need to finalize it with anything supernatural. Leave the woo out. We live in a natural world with natural laws...no gods, no demons, no heaven nor hell...just the natural universe.

Nothing supernatural about it.

One does wonder if some posters are smoking weed...????

[Sunmaster]

14 minutes ago, transam said:

Tell me you don't....????

I absolutely don't!

I used to be atheist until about 22 years old, when I experienced a spontaneous kundalini release. I had no idea what it was, but it changed my life. After that experience, I started reading all sorts of books, researching religions, studying philosophy, psychology, metaphysics, science, sociology and and and,...  trying to somehow make sense of it all. 
What I say here is a mixture of my personal experience and my studies, and has very little to do with organized religions.


PS: I probably dislike religion just as much as you guys do.

Edited April 24, 2019 by Sunmaster

[jvs]

2 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

"He" also gave people free will to choose on their own accord.

Tell that to the millions of Jews and other people who were killed by hitler.