Do you believe in God and why

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You'd have to prove that there is more than one universe at the same time and that it is possible to travel from one to another for me to believe that.

 

I believe that it is possible for energy to pass to/ from the other side, but no way I agree that matter can.

 

Unless new stars are being born from matter that didn't already exists in the universe, eventually the last star will burn it's fuel and die, which is the end of the universe that can support life in any form, IMO.

Oh, man, I believe you have to turn on your imagination, and also see what you self believe in, and think multiverses is so far out there, that you actually gave me a good laugh. Prove it? Christ sake, people believe alot more strange things than that. 

 

Humans can act like god, send life in to space, and create life on new planets. It is just matter of time. 

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Oh, man, I believe you have to turn on your imagination, and also see what you self believe in, and think multiverses is so far out there, that you actually gave me a good laugh. Prove it? Christ sake, people believe alot more strange things than that. 

 

Humans can act like god, send life in to space, and create life on new planets. It is just matter of time. 

Well, OK. You can believe that DNA can be transferred from one universe to another but I don't.

[canuckamuck]

56 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

My point is, if the Law of Conservation of Energy is true, there is no need of a 'Creator God', and such a God would be in conflict with that law, since the 'Law' states that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

You are only substituting the Law of Conservation, for God. 

[Tagged]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well, OK. You can believe that DNA can be transferred from one universe to another but I don't.

Why? Why is that hard to believe that life travel space, and if it travel trough our galaxy, it should be possible to travel trough others, as well other universes. 

 

I think that is quite narrov thinking if you ask me. 

[Tagged]

6 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Well, OK. You can believe that DNA can be transferred from one universe to another but I don't.

Everything you put on your skin have an possibility to end up in your bloodstream. That should give you something to think of

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Okay! I'll rephrase my question. 'Perhaps you can assist in enlightening me with regard to any evidence that the Law of Conservation of Energy is not true.

 

As you probably already accept, everything is connected to some degree and is interdependent. Human life is a continuous process of change, rising and falling through interdependence with numerous other processes. Enlightenment, on whatever issue, cannot be achieved without the help and influence of others. Agree?

No, I don't agree at all.

Enlightenment can ONLY be "achieved" on your own. Nobody can do that for you. Some more advanced souls can point you in the right direction, but it is up to you do do the work.
Also, "achieving" enlightenment is not the right term either, as it implies that enlightenment is not present right here right now, or something that can exist at some point but is lacking at other times. All the sages however, have taught us that this is not so. It is only our inability to realize that enlightenment is ever present, that give us the illusion of "not having" it.
All those who actually have realized that, have told us that it was like waking up to find out that they have always been enlightened.

Why do you keep asking me about the conservation of energy law and why do you assume it shouldn't be true for me? 

[VincentRJ]

6 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

No, I don't agree at all.

Enlightenment can ONLY be "achieved" on your own. Nobody can do that for you. Some more advanced souls can point you in the right direction, but it is up to you do do the work.

 

Don't be silly. Nobody can do anything on their own. You wouldn't exist if were not for the trillions of 'good' bacteria in your gut and elsewhere.
What I suggest you do is get down on your knees and pray to those good bacteria that will keep you alive until you reach 'enlightenment'. Also, when you meditate, try counting those 'good bacteria'. ????

 

As for 'work', it's not just up to you. The Mitochondria organelles in most of your cells are the 'power house' and storage of energy in your body, which allow you to work. Pray to them also. ????
 

[Sunmaster]

6 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Don't be silly. Nobody can do anything on their own. You wouldn't exist if were not for the trillions of 'good' bacteria in your gut and elsewhere.
What I suggest you do is get down on your knees and pray to those good bacteria that will keep you alive until you reach 'enlightenment'. Also, when you meditate, try counting those 'good bacteria'. ????

 

As for 'work', it's not just up to you. The Mitochondria organelles in most of your cells are the 'power house' and storage of energy in your body, which allow you to work. Pray to them also. ????
 

LOL You call me silly and then come up with this pearl? Oh, you're funny, you almost got me there ????????????

[Peter Denis]

23 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

Don't be silly. Nobody can do anything on their own. You wouldn't exist if were not for the trillions of 'good' bacteria in your gut and elsewhere.
What I suggest you do is get down on your knees and pray to those good bacteria that will keep you alive until you reach 'enlightenment'. Also, when you meditate, try counting those 'good bacteria'. ????

 

As for 'work', it's not just up to you. The Mitochondria organelles in most of your cells are the 'power house' and storage of energy in your body, which allow you to work. Pray to them also. ????

Reminds me of the Thomas Dolby song 'She blinded me with science' > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V83JR2IoI8k

 

I recommend a one-way visit to the Home of Deranged Scientists.... ????

[VincentRJ]

1 hour ago, Peter Denis said:

I recommend a one-way visit to the Home of Deranged Scientists.... ????

 

Let's do a test of your degree of rationality and logic. Who do you think is more deranged? A person who jokingly suggests that one prays to a microscopic entity, which is essential for human life, and whose existence is confirmed by science; or a person who seriously suggests that one prays to a macroscopic entity, called a Creator God, whose existence has no scientific basis. ????

[Sunmaster]

18 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

Let's do a test of your degree of rationality and logic. Who do you think is more deranged? A person who jokingly suggests that one prays to a microscopic entity, which is essential for human life, and whose existence is confirmed by science; or a person who seriously suggests that one prays to a macroscopic entity, called a Creator God, whose existence has no scientific basis. ????

wow, so now I'm "deranged"... ???? 

Let me ask you...after telling you over and over again that science doesn't have the tools, the will, nor the knowledge to inquire into spiritual matters, you still take science as the only basis for all knowledge and judge others from that very limited perspective.
What was the definition of crazy again?

Someone who performs the same action over and over again, each time expecting a different outcome. ????????????

[olfu]

As its not fun to read all 697 pages of comments I apologize if I repeat somebody else.

Religions just born somehow, lets see modern examples--communism and Scientology. As results are sure not impressive we should try see forest behind trees.

Some of new idea is we live in a computer program which just looking and waiting what we, humans, capable of.

Yes, I see every day how small humans are but screaming really loud. 

[VincentRJ]

40 minutes ago, Sunmaster said:

wow, so now I'm "deranged"... ???? 
 

 

How did you work that out? I didn't suggest you were deranged. It was Peter Denis who suggested that I was deranged, for some inexplicable reason.

 

"What was the definition of crazy again?
Someone who performs the same action over and over again, each time expecting a different outcome."

 

Never heard of that definition before. The methodology of science requires that the same action over and over again produces the same outcome, for the verification of a theory. But sometimes the outcome is different, and the search for an explanation can result in an advancement of our scientific knowledge.

[Sunmaster]

36 minutes ago, VincentRJ said:

 

How did you work that out? I didn't suggest you were deranged. It was Peter Denis who suggested that I was deranged, for some inexplicable reason.

 

"What was the definition of crazy again?
Someone who performs the same action over and over again, each time expecting a different outcome."

 

Never heard of that definition before. The methodology of science requires that the same action over and over again produces the same outcome, for the verification of a theory. But sometimes the outcome is different, and the search for an explanation can result in an advancement of our scientific knowledge.

You said "[...] a person who seriously suggests that one prays to a macroscopic entity, called a Creator God, whose existence has no scientific basis." I am such a person, so I must be included in the deranged group, according to you. But no worries, I don't take it personally.
 

Not sure if it's true, but apparently it was Einstein who said: “The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.”
 

[Sunmaster]

47 minutes ago, olfu said:

As its not fun to read all 697 pages of comments I apologize if I repeat somebody else.

Religions just born somehow, lets see modern examples--communism and Scientology. As results are sure not impressive we should try see forest behind trees.

Some of new idea is we live in a computer program which just looking and waiting what we, humans, capable of.

Yes, I see every day how small humans are but screaming really loud. 

I understand that it might be tedious, but if you had read them, you would know that the bible bashers left the thread at around page 500  (a guesstimation ???? )and we've stopped talking about religion soon thereafter. Thanks God. ???? 

 

In your example, is the computer program sentient? 

Edited December 8, 2020 by Sunmaster

[Elad]

3 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

I understand that it might be tedious, but if you had read them, you would know that the bible bashers left the thread at around page 500  (a guesstimation ???? )and we've stopped talking about religion soon thereafter. Thanks God. ???? 

 

So all those religions are wrong, all the scientists are wrong, and you are the last man standing because you believe in an entity that exists outside time. 

It's a good one that "outside time". ????

[faraday]

3 hours ago, Elad said:

 

So all those religions are wrong, all the scientists are wrong, and you are the last man standing because you believe in an entity that exists outside time. 

It's a good one that "outside time". ????

 I'm sure he isn't "the last man standing". I agree with a lot that Sunmaster posts, but don't really have the time, the inclination or patience, to defend my beliefs to the "science is the only way" believers.

 

 

[Tagged]

4 hours ago, Elad said:

 

So all those religions are wrong, all the scientists are wrong, and you are the last man standing because you believe in an entity that exists outside time. 

It's a good one that "outside time". ????

Or maybe scientists do their job and make theories and work on proving them, while a belief in a god is very personal and impossible to prove. It is a choice we have to make or can make if we want. The debate of truth is kind of obscured and conflicting. 

 

Again we are part of the nature here on planet earth, our mother, gaia, and our planet is part of a much bigger system, therefor we are one. From dust to dust litterally speaking as the only truth we have. As trees is connected to each other trough fungus, we are all connected to something we can not yet discribe, but most people are disconnected. Have a good morning

[Sunmaster]

6 hours ago, Elad said:

It's a good one that "outside time". ????

Why would that concept be a problem for you?
Time is not a constant...it's relative according to Einstein and his theory. Being subject to change, time is therefore subordinate to that which is timeless and not bound by change. Again, according to science textbooks, time started with the Big Bang. So what was before? What will be after? Science doesn't have answers to these questions. Do you?

[thaibeachlovers]

23 hours ago, Tagged said:

Everything you put on your skin have an possibility to end up in your bloodstream. That should give you something to think of

Nicotine patches work that way, but the outside and inside of the skin is in the same universe.

 

Of course anything is possible in infinity, but I prefer to deal with things that have more meaning to myself in my life. Multiple universes may exist but are of no interest to myself.

[thaibeachlovers]

8 hours ago, Elad said:

 

So all those religions are wrong, all the scientists are wrong, and you are the last man standing because you believe in an entity that exists outside time. 

It's a good one that "outside time". ????

Seems to me that those that do not believe in God must believe that somehow all the matter that exists in the universe just appeared, magically, out of nothing. Some, apparently think it was always there, but can't explain how that could be possible. If the universe will die, as it will when the last sun burns out, it must have had a beginning, IMO.

I prefer to believe that it didn't and was created, ergo, the force that created it is "God". I'm quite OK with the notion that the Creator exists in a different dimension and is not bound by our science or time.

[thaibeachlovers]

Here's a thought. Non believers say the BIble is a fairy story because it says the earth and the stars were created in 6 days.

However, what if the Creator exists in an alternate space time where a day is a trillion trillion earth days long? Who said the bible has to be referring to planet earth days?

What if the burning bush was a sort of telephone from another dimension?

What if Jesus was God energy made visible to humans, but with the power to do miracles and raise the dead?

Edited December 9, 2020 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

13 hours ago, olfu said:

As its not fun to read all 697 pages of comments I apologize if I repeat somebody else.

Religions just born somehow, lets see modern examples--communism and Scientology. As results are sure not impressive we should try see forest behind trees.

Some of new idea is we live in a computer program which just looking and waiting what we, humans, capable of.

Yes, I see every day how small humans are but screaming really loud. 

Had you read all 697 pages you would have discovered that this thread is not about religion. It's about belief in God.

[Tagged]

24 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Nicotine patches work that way, but the outside and inside of the skin is in the same universe.

 

Of course anything is possible in infinity, but I prefer to deal with things that have more meaning to myself in my life. Multiple universes may exist but are of no interest to myself.

And how little you know or will knew. It is quite controersial to everything you have written and liked others have said about open your mind, but of course other sides of the topic. 

[thaibeachlovers]

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

wow, so now I'm "deranged"... ???? 

Let me ask you...after telling you over and over again that science doesn't have the tools, the will, nor the knowledge to inquire into spiritual matters, you still take science as the only basis for all knowledge and judge others from that very limited perspective.

IMO one has to suspect that those that actually believe present day science has all the answers or that the future will not bring new realities must be overlooking the history of humanity.

New discoveries are always happening, but in the past the science was so fixed that people that claimed the earth revolved around the sun were in peril of their lives. We don't burn heretics any more, but the inquisition IMO still works to prevent new discoveries threatening present science.

I've said it before, but IMO present science is too primitive to prove or disprove the supernatural. The only way we have now is to die.

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, Tagged said:

And how little you know or will knew. It is quite controersial to everything you have written and liked others have said about open your mind, but of course other sides of the topic. 

Bye.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 12/8/2020 at 2:45 PM, Peter Denis said:

Would Pure Consciousness have a need for 'matter' or for the 'Universe'?

Asking for a friend...

Depends on what Pure Consciousness is. If it IS the universe, then obviously the universe matters. People assume God is separate from us and the physical universe, but that is just supposition, IMO.

I think everything in the universe is part of God- God made visible, if you like.

People just have to get away from thinking God is like a human, and understand that God is everything, IMO.

[Peter Denis]

5 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Depends on what Pure Consciousness is. If it IS the universe, then obviously the universe matters. People assume God is separate from us and the physical universe, but that is just supposition, IMO.

I think everything in the universe is part of God- God made visible, if you like.

People just have to get away from thinking God is like a human, and understand that God is everything, IMO.

Yes, everything is connected which is just another way of saying all that is, is One.

But we are 'tricked' by polarity - the way in which we view the world - that we somehow are 'outside' this oneness. 

[Tagged]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Depends on what Pure Consciousness is. If it IS the universe, then obviously the universe matters. People assume God is separate from us and the physical universe, but that is just supposition, IMO.

I think everything in the universe is part of God- God made visible, if you like.

People just have to get away from thinking God is like a human, and understand that God is everything, IMO.

Yes, and how hard can it be to understand we are one? It just we as humans have disconnected, or been distracted to long and missing out on the important part, where we have to fight to survive. 

 

On the other hand, anyone think tribes in amazonas is more connected? 

 

Edit note: Isolated tribes

Edited December 9, 2020 by Tagged

[yodsak]

19 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Seems to me that those that do not believe in God must believe that somehow all the matter that exists in the universe just appeared, magically, out of nothing.

"There was never a Big Bang that produced something from nothing. It just seemed that way from mankind's perspective,”—  Hawking

 

 Scientists do not say that before the Big Bang, nothing existed. However, creationists often say that scientists say that before the Big Bang, nothing existed. What scientists actually say is that at the Planck epoch, which is the period up to which the universe is a Planck time old (10^-43 seconds), they don't know what happened and maybe never will.

 

This is the closest that current physics can get to the absolute beginning of time, and very little can be known about this period. General relativity proposes a gravitational singularity before this time (although even that may break down due to quantum effects), and it is hypothesised that the four fundamental forces (electromagnetism, weak nuclear force, strong nuclear force and gravity) all have the same strength, and are possibly even unified into one fundamental force held together by a perfect symmetry which some have likened to a sharpened pencil standing on its point.

 

’’ The word  ‘’God'' for me is nothing more than the product of human weaknesses, and religious scripture a collection of honourable, but still primitive legends which are nevertheless pretty childish.’’ — Albert Einstein. 

Edited December 9, 2020 by yodsak