Do you believe in God and why

[wprime]

I believe Jesus existed but wasn't anyone special. His mother was probably shagging some other guy and didn't have the heart to admit it to poor Joseph so she invented the story of the virgin birth and with it, a religion.

 

 

[Surelynot]

2 minutes ago, Tagged said:

Tell us what love is? People look at love exactly the same way as they look at god or not? Chemical reaction, a hallucination, what is love? Is love something you creata yourself inside you, or it outside in experience? The answer is within yourself, and not anything other can answer for you. You can be told, and you can choose to listen, but it is completely up to you how you decide to make your truth and your answers based on your experiences. I can not answer you, but I can tell you what I believe, and my experiences, and that is what the whole discussion in this thread have been about. Nothing more nothing else and nothing less

I believe (and as suggested, I am allowed to do that) that woman have a greater tendency to "love" (no definition)  than men.

 

As much as I dislike the women, Germain Greer was pretty much spot on when she said that marriage is institutional rape.

 

Woman need/want security and financial security, which, historically at least, was achieved through marriage. Loving someone was a bonus.

 

Men want regular, easy to get, sex. Loving in many mens minds is just lust.

 

Wanting security and wanting sex both then get jumbled up into what passes for a loving relationship.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Tagged said:

Tell us what love is? People look at love exactly the same way as they look at god or not? Chemical reaction, a hallucination, what is love? Is love something you creat yourself inside you, or is it an outside in experience? The answer is within yourself, and not anything other can answer for you. You can be told, you can be teached, and you can choose to listen, but it is completely up to you how you decide to make your truth, and make your answers based on your experiences. I can not answer you, but I can tell you what I believe, and i can tell you my experiences, and that is what the whole discussion in this thread have been about. Nothing more nothing else and nothing less

LOL. There is a multi gazillion $ industry devoted to romantic love-magazines, books, movies, tv shows, flowers, gifts, diamond rings, engagement gifts, night before wedding parties, expensive weddings, gold rings, etc etc etc.

So, tell me it's a myth that people don't believe, if you can!

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, wprime said:

I believe Jesus existed but wasn't anyone special. His mother was probably shagging some other guy and didn't have the heart to admit it to poor Joseph so she invented the story of the virgin birth and with it, a religion.

 

 

and you know that because you were there?

Again- that's religion and some of us are talking about faith. I'm not even interested in religion.

I am interested in belief in God, which is the OP. Do you have anything to say about that?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, Surelynot said:

I believe (and as suggested, I am allowed to do that) that woman have a greater tendency to "love" (no definition)  than men.

 

As much as I dislike the women, Germain Greer was pretty much spot on when she said that marriage is institutional rape.

 

Woman need/want security and financial security, which, historically at least, was achieved through marriage. Loving someone was a bonus.

 

Men want regular, easy to get, sex. Loving in many mens minds is just lust.

 

Wanting security and wanting sex both then get jumbled up into what passes for a loving relationship.

IMO marriage was invented so rulers knew that their children were theirs, and eventually religion cottoned on that they could use it to control sex, which has always been the enemy, as it's beyond the control of the church, so they made it that only people they permitted to get married could have sex.

Back then most men probably died before 40 and they had to work all day, so marriage was important to raise children as the wife could stay home and do that. It also meant that divorce for the common people wasn't an issue.

IMO arranged marriages were the norm, so "love" wasn't important, as people didn't marry someone they loved.

 

IMO it's only since we were able to live long after our 40s and had leisure time that people started to want divorce as they probably hadn't loved each other for decades.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

As much as I dislike the women, Germain Greer was pretty much spot on when she said that marriage is institutional rape.

Given that women seem to stop wanting sex soon after sealing the deal for financial security, it's no wonder that they have been campaigning for the right to deny sex, while still ensuring that they got as much of the loot proceeds of the divorce as possible.

I'm all for the end of marriage as an institution, and IMO as soon as sexbots are perfected it will happen not long after, once men can get the perfect woman that always looks fantastic and never says no.

 

Given the amazing selection of lifelike dolls available now, IMO soon as those clever Japanese can stick a programmable android inside, the dominance of women will vanish like a frost in the sun. Perhaps this is our next phase on the path of evolution that the creator laid out.

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, Surelynot said:

No man ever lay on his deathbed and said "God! I wish I'd never slept with so many women".

Right on.

On my death bed my only regret in that department will be that I ended up with the wrong ones so often.

[Surelynot]

7 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Given that women seem to stop wanting sex soon after sealing the deal for financial security, it's no wonder that they have been campaigning for the right to deny sex,

The only cake that puts women off of having sex?...........wedding cake.

[Tagged]

44 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. There is a multi gazillion $ industry devoted to romantic love-magazines, books, movies, tv shows, flowers, gifts, diamond rings, engagement gifts, night before wedding parties, expensive weddings, gold rings, etc etc etc.

So, tell me it's a myth that people don't believe, if you can!

Teh same goes for religion and spiritualism. A multi gazillion industry

 

and the same people believe love is chemistry where maybe the beste mating partner for you is the one you get attracted to and call love. Religion, love, extreme sports, extreme scills where you have public to show off in front off, learning something new, music, drugs, fighting, you name it, give the same more or less respons to your reward system. Of course some is more attracted to religion and others drugs, sex and rockn roll. 

 

I guess this was discussed 300 pages back

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Tagged said:

Teh same goes for religion and spiritualism. A multi gazillion industry

LOL. My faith requires no financial expenditure of any kind. nature is all around as I don't live in a city, and sunsets are free for the looking.

 

Methinks you are confusing faith and religion, though perhaps you think spiritualism and faith are different.

 

It's great in the countryside as I can see all the stars on a dark night. Perhaps city dwellers lose faith because they can't see the glory of a starlit sky, or a perfect sunset.

 

[Tagged]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL. My faith requires no financial expenditure of any kind. nature is all around as I don't live in a city, and sunsets are free for the looking.

 

Methinks you are confusing faith and religion, though perhaps you think spiritualism and faith are different.

 

It's great in the countryside as I can see all the stars on a dark night. Perhaps city dwellers lose faith because they can't see the glory of a starlit sky, or a perfect sunset.

 

Omg, you have no idea where I have been born, places I have lived, and places I have travelled, and you forget everything we have discussed before. I believe nature is god, we, mother earth, galaxy, universe(s) are one. I also believe we our self create our own universe for us self where we learn to give us self rewards out from the chemical factory we have in our brain, some have better talent to do so, but everyone make their own happiness from what they have and how they learned to use it. So from there you get the picture of your own reality that give you taste, smell, senses, eye for beauty,  etc to stimulate your world and your reality. 

 

For some that is to work hard, and earn money, take care of family to something totally different for the next one. Some follow others because they see their happiness and success, but they really do not succeed in the same way, do not feel, do not see the reward, and then you have the misury and jealusy. So many levels, but yes, nature is god, and from there you have to create your own reality based on your own talents and your own experiences. 

 

Love, love for a god is just one destination on the journey

[thaibeachlovers]

Now that even the non believers have ceased to post, this seemed appropriate.

 

Proverbs 14:6

A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding.

[Orinoco]

3 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Now that even the non believers have ceased to post, this seemed appropriate.

 

Proverbs 14:6

A scoffer seeks wisdom in vain, but knowledge is easy for a man of understanding.

Just maybe they all got bored of the gang of three.

running the table. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

[ivor bigun]

Well i am not bored , i started this thread thinking that it may run to a few pages ,and that the original inventors of God ,the Jews would fight it out with ,the Christians , and the Muslims ,who we must say took a hell of a time to latch onto him , But they really do seem to have taken lots of bits out of both Christianity and Judaism and made it into Islam ,  dont you agree ? i mean you only have to look at the Nuns and you see where they got the Burkha from .

anyway carry on boys .

[Ladidaa]

4 minutes ago, ivor bigun said:

Well i am not bored , i started this thread thinking that it may run to a few pages ,and that the original inventors of God ,the Jews would fight it out with ,the Christians , and the Muslims ,who we must say took a hell of a time to latch onto him , But they really do seem to have taken lots of bits out of both Christianity and Judaism and made it into Islam ,  dont you agree ? i mean you only have to look at the Nuns and you see where they got the Burkha from .

anyway carry on boys .

You started the thread, bravo bravo bravo

What have you learned so far? 

[ivor bigun]

4 hours ago, Ladidaa said:

You started the thread, bravo bravo bravo

What have you learned so far? 

That many people believe and many people dont ,so nothing new there ,mind you i wish i truly believed ,and that i would go to heaven and see all my relatives when i die  ,mind you would be a problem when the wife and the ex wives die ,

all through time people have believed that there was a GoD OR GODS , NOTHING HAS CHANGED MY MIND ,I STILL DONT BELIEVE ,.

WE ARE BORN ,WE DIE AND GO BACK TO THE EARTH .

 

[Sunmaster]

9 hours ago, Orinoco said:

Just maybe they all got bored of the gang of three.

running the table. LOL !!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, Vincent started to quote Buddha in every post, so I guess we managed to assimilate him. Resistance is futile anyway. ???? 

[VincentRJ]

14 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Well, Vincent started to quote Buddha in every post, so I guess we managed to assimilate him. Resistance is futile anyway. ???? 

You want some more insights on Buddhism? ????

 

The Buddha lived in a country where most people were very religious, believing in many gods, including a Creator God they called Brahma. Most of the ascetics, recluses and wanders of those times were also religious, believing in the existence of Brahma.

 

When the Buddha achieved enlightenment, he apparently understood that the existence of a God, or the Creator of the Universe, was an unknowable, so it was a waste of precious time to speculate on such matters because there were more important issues to address in the 'here and now', such as reducing and eliminating suffering.

 

However, the Buddha realized after his enlightenment that there would be a major problem trying to teach his way of enlightenment to religious fanatics who believed in various gods, and that he might as well just spend the rest of his life living peacefully in the forests.

 

The problem was addressed by creating a story that the God Brahma descended from heaven to implore the Buddha to teach what he'd learned on his path to enlightenment (the Dhamma), because at least some people would understand. In some versions of the story, Brahma even bows down to Gautama, demonstrating his subservience.

 

This would obviously have appealed to the 'God believers' and would have enabled the the creation of the new religion of Buddhism that could appeal to the ignorant masses who needed a belief in some sort of God. ????
 

[Sunmaster]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

You want some more insights on Buddhism? ????

 

The Buddha lived in a country where most people were very religious, believing in many gods, including a Creator God they called Brahma. Most of the ascetics, recluses and wanders of those times were also religious, believing in the existence of Brahma.

 

When the Buddha achieved enlightenment, he apparently understood that the existence of a God, or the Creator of the Universe, was an unknowable, so it was a waste of precious time to speculate on such matters because there were more important issues to address in the 'here and now', such as reducing and eliminating suffering.

 

However, the Buddha realized after his enlightenment that there would be a major problem trying to teach his way of enlightenment to religious fanatics who believed in various gods, and that he might as well just spend the rest of his life living peacefully in the forests.

 

The problem was addressed by creating a story that the God Brahma descended from heaven to implore the Buddha to teach what he'd learned on his path to enlightenment (the Dhamma), because at least some people would understand. In some versions of the story, Brahma even bows down to Gautama, demonstrating his subservience.

 

This would obviously have appealed to the 'God believers' and would have enabled the the creation of the new religion of Buddhism that could appeal to the ignorant masses who needed a belief in some sort of God. ????
 

Like I said. Assimilated! ????

 

[VincentRJ]

8 hours ago, Sunmaster said:

Like I said. Assimilated! ????

 

Assimilated what, precisely? A belief in God? ????

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/15/2021 at 3:37 PM, VincentRJ said:

When the Buddha achieved enlightenment, he apparently understood that the existence of a God, or the Creator of the Universe, was an unknowable,

but, to be precise, he didn't say there was NO God, so in his opinion there could be one.

I believe that there is a creator God, but he isn't going to give me any help this side of death. In other words, I don't believe in a "personal" God.

The really great adventure starts after my body dies.

[thaibeachlovers]

On 5/15/2021 at 1:11 AM, ivor bigun said:

That many people believe and many people dont ,so nothing new there ,mind you i wish i truly believed ,and that i would go to heaven and see all my relatives when i die  ,mind you would be a problem when the wife and the ex wives die ,

all through time people have believed that there was a GoD OR GODS , NOTHING HAS CHANGED MY MIND ,I STILL DONT BELIEVE ,.

WE ARE BORN ,WE DIE AND GO BACK TO THE EARTH .

 

Soooooo, as your body is just a biological machine that carries "you" around it does go back to basic elements in the great circle of life on planet earth after it fails to keep living. "You" isn't a physical thing, so what do you think happens to it after your body dies? If it just ends in nothing, what's the point of living a good life? Might as well just be a selfish <deleted> and steal and con through life with wine women and song. After all, if there is nothing after life, why worry about it?

[VincentRJ]

11 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If it just ends in nothing, what's the point of living a good life? Might as well just be a selfish <deleted> and steal and con through life with wine women and song. After all, if there is nothing after life, why worry about it?

Wow! What a strange question. What's the point in living a good life? Crikey! 

 

A 'good life' is more likely to result in peace, harmony, happiness, intellectual insights, good health, a long life, and so on; whereas a 'bad life' is more likely to result in worry, anxiety, depression, anger, hatred, poor health due to excessive drinking and eating resulting from greed, illicit drug consumption, sexually transmitted diseases, and possibly a jail sentence for illegal behaviour, and so on and on.
 

[thaibeachlovers]

9 hours ago, VincentRJ said:

Wow! What a strange question. What's the point in living a good life? Crikey! 

 

A 'good life' is more likely to result in peace, harmony, happiness, intellectual insights, good health, a long life, and so on; whereas a 'bad life' is more likely to result in worry, anxiety, depression, anger, hatred, poor health due to excessive drinking and eating resulting from greed, illicit drug consumption, sexually transmitted diseases, and possibly a jail sentence for illegal behaviour, and so on and on.
 

The "bad" people I know personally that made my life worse are quite happy with their lives.

I think your points only apply to some bad people and the rest are having a great life, despite doing so at the expense of "good" people.

I have to wonder if you know any bad people personally, as your points seem to be the sort that would be found in some bureaucratic handbook.

BTW, bad people are not necessarily criminals. The bad people I know are at no risk of arrest or jail time.

 

A 'good life' is more likely to result in peace, harmony, happiness, intellectual insights, good health, a long life, and so on

Seriously? I think you must be takin' the <deleted>.

I don't consider myself a bad person, but I've had none of the benefits you give, apart from ( IMO ) intellectual insights.

[sirineou]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The "bad" people I know personally that made my life worse are quite happy with their lives.

I think your points only apply to some bad people and the rest are having a great life, despite doing so at the expense of "good" people.

I have to wonder if you know any bad people personally, as your points seem to be the sort that would be found in some bureaucratic handbook.

BTW, bad people are not necessarily criminals. The bad people I know are at no risk of arrest or jail time.

 

A 'good life' is more likely to result in peace, harmony, happiness, intellectual insights, good health, a long life, and so on

Seriously? I think you must be takin' the <deleted>.

I don't consider myself a bad person, but I've had none of the benefits you give, apart from ( IMO ) intellectual insights.

I am not making any value judgment or  take a position on this, I am simply offering it as a possible explanation. 

1"Nietzsche argued that there were two fundamental types of morality: "master morality" and "slave morality". Master morality values pride and power, while slave morality values kindness, empathy, and sympathy. Master morality judges actions as good or bad (, unlike slave morality, which judges by a scale of good or evil intentions  "

  If I understand that aspect of Nietzschean philosophy correctly , the "slave "has developed all sort of rationalizations to compensate for their inability to be "masters" for them living a good life is more important and the rewards will come after they are dead , when they will be judged. "Masters" are happy with that attitude , in fact they foster such attitude as a means of controlling the "slaves" 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Master–slave_morality

 

 

Edited May 17, 2021 by sirineou

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The "bad" people I know personally that made my life worse are quite happy with their lives.

I think your points only apply to some bad people and the rest are having a great life, despite doing so at the expense of "good" people.

I have to wonder if you know any bad people personally, as your points seem to be the sort that would be found in some bureaucratic handbook.

BTW, bad people are not necessarily criminals. The bad people I know are at no risk of arrest or jail time.

 

A 'good life' is more likely to result in peace, harmony, happiness, intellectual insights, good health, a long life, and so on

Seriously? I think you must be takin' the <deleted>.

I don't consider myself a bad person, but I've had none of the benefits you give, apart from ( IMO ) intellectual insights.

It is interesting how most of us are almost boring in our predictability in that we won't do the wrong thing to others except for minor infractions here and there. On the other hand others seem to have no compunction in ripping off others or worse. Put it down to different brains caused by nature or nurture.  Helps us get through the day to hope that karma or some sort of retribution awaits. Helps avoid that nagging feeling of powerlessness that we are not in a position either due to cleverness or circumstance to take action ourselves. 

[VincentRJ]

2 hours ago, thaibeachlovers said:

The "bad" people I know personally that made my life worse are quite happy with their lives.

I think your points only apply to some bad people and the rest are having a great life, despite doing so at the expense of "good" people.

I have to wonder if you know any bad people personally, as your points seem to be the sort that would be found in some bureaucratic handbook.

BTW, bad people are not necessarily criminals. The bad people I know are at no risk of arrest or jail time.

 

A 'good life' is more likely to result in peace, harmony, happiness, intellectual insights, good health, a long life, and so on

Seriously? I think you must be takin' the <deleted>.

I don't consider myself a bad person, but I've had none of the benefits you give, apart from ( IMO ) intellectual insights.

You seem to have missed the meaning of a significant phrase in my post, that is, 'more likely to result in.......'

 

Another issue, which I didn't mention because I thought it was obvious, is the problem of the either/or duality. It's very simplistic to describe something as either good or bad, hot or cold, hard or soft, and so on. There are always degrees between the two extremes which more accurately describe most things, or people. It's very unlikely, and even impossible, that anyone could be 'completely bad' or 'completely good'.

 

When you describe someone as a 'bad person', that is usually a projection of your own interpretation of a few specific actions or behaviour traits of the so-called bad person that you are aware of. There might be a number of good aspects of the so-called 'bad person' you are not aware of. We know ourselves much better than anyone else.

 

The opposite is also true. You might describe someone as a 'good person' because you are only aware of their good actions and not aware of their 'bad' actions, which only they are aware of.

[mauGR1]

1 hour ago, VincentRJ said:

There are always degrees between the two extremes which more accurately describe most things, or people. It's very unlikely, and even impossible, that anyone could be 'completely bad' or 'completely good'.

That's very true,  you should try to remember that when you go on mocking the "believers" as a whole ????

[Fat is a type of crazy]

1 hour ago, mauGR1 said:

That's very true,  you should try to remember that when you go on mocking the "believers" as a whole ????

It's fair not to judge believers as good or bad based on that belief. It is not fair to castigate believers because of that belief. I think it is fair to note that believers have gone to an extreme - that being belief. They could say I think, hope, long for, have a feeling of, a god. But a believer says I know 100 per cent there is a god. Conversation over. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy

[mauGR1]

11 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

It's fair not to judge believers as good or bad based on that belief. It is not fair to castigate believers because of that belief. I think it is fair to note that believers have gone to an extreme - that being belief. They could say I think, hope, long for, have a feeling of, a god. But a believer says I know 100 per cent there is a god. Conversation over. 

Agree, and the opposite is also true.

We are probably going to discuss for aeons without finding the truth about God. 

My point is that materialists can be as stubborn, unreasonable and in extreme cases as fanatics as believers.