Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Yes but the power of google and youtube to hide the truth. Scary. Google 100 times more powerful than Murdoch.

 

I read former ipcc reports. Riddled with errors. Google has erased so much of the criticism.

 

Mind control 1984 stuff!!!

Not surprising at all, interesting times ahead.

[Sparktrader]

Yandex is better. There is some skeptical stuff on page 1. 

 

 

[Walker88]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I trust ole Albert. 

The quote is the most misused piece of verbiage coming out of Einstein's mouth.

 

He was a non believer.

 

He also would not be so goal-seeking as to think---even if he thought some entity created the Universe (which he did not)---that any deduction as to good or bad entity, one or many entities, purpose or no purpose of home sapiens, or any of the other things those with 'faith' have decided must be true simply because the Universe is here was logical.

 

The height of non-logic is: the Universe is here, therefore there is only one god, he loves me, he is pure love, and his rules say no lying, cheating, stealing, killing, cussing, missing Sunday service, coveting neighbors goods and wives, and dishonoring your birth mother and sperm donor....and follow all those rules you get a seat in some celestial country club because the deity knocked up an Earthgirl and let the kid get nailed.

 

 

 

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Walker88 said:

The quote is the most misused piece of verbiage coming out of Einstein's mouth.

 

He was a non believer.

 

He also would not be so goal-seeking as to think---even if he thought some entity created the Universe (which he did not)---that any deduction as to good or bad entity, one or many entities, purpose or no purpose of home sapiens, or any of the other things those with 'faith' have decided must be true simply because the Universe is here was logical.

 

The height of non-logic is: the Universe is here, therefore there is only one god, he loves me, he is pure love, and his rules say no lying, cheating, stealing, killing, cussing, missing Sunday service, coveting neighbors goods and wives, and dishonoring your birth mother and sperm donor....and follow all those rules you get a seat in some celestial country club because the deity knocked up an Earthgirl and let the kid get nailed.

 

 

 

 

I'm not really interested in your nonsense, as every agnostic will admit the possibility of the existence of an intelligent design. 

Perhaps you have to look on the dictionary what's the meaning of "agnostic ".

[Sparktrader]

Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic",^[5] "religious nonbeliever"^[3] and a "pantheistic"^[9] believer in "Spinoza's God".^[2] Einstein believed the problem of God was the "most difficult in the world"—a question that could not be answered "simply with yes or no." He conceded that, "the problem involved is too vast for our limited minds."^[10]

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said:

Einstein used many labels to describe his religious views, including "agnostic",^[5] "religious nonbeliever"^[3] and a "pantheistic"^[9] believer in "Spinoza's God".^[2] Einstein believed the problem of God was the "most difficult in the world"—a question that could not be answered "simply with yes or no." He conceded that, "the problem involved is too vast for our limited minds."^[10]

Surely he was intelligent enough to acknowledge that there is an ongoing debate. And wise enough not to take a definite position .

[CharlieH]

A quantity of off topic posts and responses to them removed.

[canthai55]

15 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Are you saying that MSM has ethics ?

Aren't they humans?

They are a corporation.

Their sole reason for being is to make money for their shareholders.

Do not confuse human beings with corporations.

And MSM has no ethics - altho' they would argue otherwise

[canthai55]

12 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Starting with the premise of things being all due to power, corruption, and lies is a leap of faith that human nature is bad and that nothing is as it seems - a type of paranoia.

I would not say ALL things ...

But ask yourself - how many good people have you met - full of compassion, honest, kind, caring ...

And how many Ash Whole S have you met ...

In my case the latter far far outweighs the former.

This is not a scientific truth, this is what I have seen in my life.

Am I wrong ?  If it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck, it is probably a duck

[canthai55]

When Einstein gave lectures at U.S. universities, the recurring question that students asked him most was:

- Do you believe in God?

And he always answered:

- I believe in the God of Spinoza.

Baruch de Spinoza was a Dutch philosopher considered one of the great rationalists of 17th century philosophy, along with Descartes.

(Spinoza) : God would say:

Stop praying.

What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.

Stop going into those dark, cold temples that you built yourself and saying they are my house. My house is in the mountains, in the woods, rivers, lakes, beaches. That's where I live and there I express my love for you.

Stop blaming me for your miserable life; I never told you there was anything wrong with you or that you were a sinner, or that your sexuality was a bad thing. Sex is a gift I have given you and with which you can express your love, your ecstasy, your joy. So don't blame me for everything they made you believe.

Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures that have nothing to do with me. If you can't read me in a sunrise, in a landscape, in the look of your friends, in your son's eyes... you will find me in no book!

Stop asking me "will you tell me how to do my job?" Stop being so scared of me. I do not judge you or criticize you, nor get angry, or bothered. I am pure love.

Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you... I filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs, inconsistencies... free will. How can I blame you if you respond to something I put in you? How can I punish you for being the way you are, if I'm the one who made you? Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who behave badly for the rest of eternity? What kind of god would do that?

Respect your peers and don't do what you don't want for yourself. All I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that alertness is your guide.

My beloved, this life is not a test, not a step on the way, not a rehearsal, nor a prelude to paradise. This life is the only thing here and now and it is all you need.

I have set you absolutely free, no prizes or punishments, no sins or virtues, no one carries a marker, no one keeps a record.

You are absolutely free to create in your life. Heaven or hell.

I can't tell you if there's anything after this life but I can give you a tip. Live as if there is not. As if this is your only chance to enjoy, to love, to exist.

So, if there's nothing after, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I gave you. And if there is, rest assured that I won't ask if you behaved right or wrong, I'll ask. Did you like it? Did you have fun? What did you enjoy the most? What did you learn?...

Stop believing in me; believing is assuming, guessing, imagining. I don't want you to believe in me, I want you to believe in you. I want you to feel me in you when you kiss your beloved, when you tuck in your little girl, when you caress your dog, when you bathe in the sea.

Stop praising me, what kind of egomaniac God do you think I am?

I'm bored being praised. I'm tired of being thanked. Feeling grateful? Prove it by taking care of yourself, your health, your relationships, the world. Express your joy! That's the way to praise me.

Stop complicating things and repeating as a parakeet what you've been taught about me.

What do you need more miracles for? So many explanations?

The only thing for sure is that you are here, that you are alive, that this world is full of wonders.

- Spinoza

 

[thaibeachlovers]

15 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Is belief in god really like actions taken to stop the spread of a disease? I am interested who benefits from the so called covid con in Australia. And how do those that benefit influence government decision making?  You seem pretty sure so you should be able to provide a clear and articulate response. 

Sydney shut down a bit late and they have 10 times the cases of Melbourne. Thanks Dan. Imagine if no lockdowns in Sydney. Lots in hospital right now. 

The causation between junk food and cancer, compared to  covid and illness, is just a bit weaker. Also if  you eat junk food and drink beer it doesn't affect me. Except taxes in hospitals. That's the reason they don't ban it. They give people a choice.

Hard to give people a choice with covid because your actions affect others.

I said I'll stop talking covid because it's boring. After this.  

 

 

 

I don't know what everything after "Is belief in god really like actions taken to stop the spread of a disease?" has to do with the OP.

However, to answer that, would involve asking every believer in God as every believer would IMO have a different answer.

Some believe in a personal God that answers prayers and others don't. For myself, nature ( Gaia ) is God in an understandable form, but I don't expect it to stop raining because I pray to God.

So, is belief like an insurance policy against disease? Not in my opinion, but it may be so for others.

 

PS. Yes, talking about covid is very boring.

[mauGR1]

34 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

They are a corporation.

Their sole reason for being is to make money for their shareholders.

Do not confuse human beings with corporations.

And MSM has no ethics - altho' they would argue otherwise

Well, if we expect an ethic behaviour from the individual, i think we could expect at least some ethics from the ones who make a living by giving us information. 

But of course, you are right, corporations are there to make a profit, and the more profit they make, the less accountable. 

I'm starting to see democracy as a beautiful dream, but not so easy to make it real ????

 

[thaibeachlovers]

4 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, if we expect an ethic behaviour from the individual, i think we could expect at least some ethics from the ones who make a living by giving us information. 

But of course, you are right, corporations are there to make a profit, and the more profit they make, the less accountable. 

I'm starting to see democracy as a beautiful dream, but not so easy to make it real ????

 

IMO I have never known real democracy, even though we get a vote now and then. Far as I know, the politicians were always elected by a minority of voters.

 

What's ironic for me is that if people lived by the basic principles of Christianity there would be few interpersonal problems and no wars.

NB I say the basic principles, not the extraneous things added by fallible humans.

If we really loved everyone, how could we commit crimes against them or kill them?

[canthai55]

41 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I'm starting to see democracy as a beautiful dream, but not so easy to make it real

There is now, and has never been, Democracy.

It is just another tool to tell the Sheeple to keep them in line and obey

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, canthai55 said:

There is now, and has never been, Democracy.

It is just another tool to tell the Sheeple to keep them in line and obey

That's at least one thing we agree on.

[mauGR1]

40 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

If we really loved everyone, how could we commit crimes against them or kill them?

I think we have to deal with extremely powerful, sometimes conflicting forces, and try to make the best out of it, according to our personal level of evolution. 

As I believe in karma, i try my best not to feed the evil forces, but it's not always easy to take a selfless stand.

 

[mauGR1]

34 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

There is now, and has never been, Democracy.

It is just another tool to tell the Sheeple to keep them in line and obey

Yet it's a wonderful dream, to create a world where we can co-exist peacefully. 

The challenge is to turn a dream into a solid reality.

I have no doubt it will happen,  but surely not in my lifetime. 

[Fat is a type of crazy]

39 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

There is now, and has never been, Democracy.

It is just another tool to tell the Sheeple to keep them in line and obey

Australia

 

Not perfect, there is influence by the powerful, rich, and the media, but pretty good. Free and fair elections. You seem to be aiming for absolutes so you become disappointed.

Same with people.

Most I think have some natural moderation process to keep us between too good and too bad. There are exceptions, and some of those are the high profile leaders who get the headlines, while your neighbours, friends, and family and most people on this site are fairly goodish  people. 

 

Things such as drugs, money,  and power can intoxicate and throw us off track towards taking actions that hurt, or hinder others, but the sign that people are not too bad are the societal controls in place to either help us or punish us when we go to far. In countries like Australia. 

You can do your thing each day. That's a sign people aren't too bad where you are. 

[canthai55]

8 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Yet it's a wonderful dream, to create a world where we can co-exist peacefully. 

The challenge is to turn a dream into a solid reality.

I have no doubt it will happen,  but surely not in my lifetime. 

Change Human nature - impossible

 

[canthai55]

2 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said:

Australia

 

Not perfect, there is influence by the powerful, rich, and the media, but pretty good. Free and fair elections. You seem to be aiming for absolutes so you become disappointed.

Same with people.

Most I think have some natural moderation process to keep us between too good and too bad. There are exceptions, and some of those are the high profile leaders who get the headlines, while your neighbours, friends, and family and most people on this site are fairly goodish  people. 

 

Things such as drugs, money,  and power can intoxicate and throw us off track towards taking actions that hurt, or hinder others, but the sign that people are not too bad are the societal controls in place to either help us or punish us when we go to far. In countries like Australia. 

You can do your thing each day. That's a sign people aren't too bad where you are. 

You actually believe that the elections are Free and Fair ?

Politicians get elected by the campaigns they run, the platform they espouse.

These campaigns are paid for by special interest groups and individuals with contributions aimed at furthering their personal goals and increasing their personal fortunes.

Aiming for nothing - but I do not use Rose colored glasses either

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Change Human nature - impossible

 

Everything is possible. 

...if there is hope and faith. 

But, even if it was impossible,  dreaming is free.

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

You actually believe that the elections are Free and Fair ?

Politicians get elected by the campaigns they run, the platform they espouse.

These campaigns are paid for by special interest groups and individuals with contributions aimed at furthering their personal goals and increasing their personal fortunes.

Aiming for nothing - but I do not use Rose colored glasses either

It's funny in a way, someone still believes that the governments are there to help the people, it makes definitely more sense to believe in God ????

[ColeBOzbourne]

I ran across this catch-22 in a book this morning, it reminded me of this thread:  "Can God make a stone so big that He cannot lift it?"

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

I ran across this catch-22 in a book this morning, it reminded me of this thread:  "Can God make a stone so big that He cannot lift it?"

I'm fairly sure that he can employ other folks to do the job ????

[ravip]

2 hours ago, canthai55 said:

When Einstein gave lectures at U.S. universities, the recurring question that students asked him most was:

- Do you believe in God?

And he always answered:

- I believe in the God of Spinoza.

Baruch de Spinoza was a Dutch philosopher considered one of the great rationalists of 17th century philosophy, along with Descartes.

(Spinoza) : God would say:

Stop praying.

What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.

Stop going into those dark, cold temples that you built yourself and saying they are my house. My house is in the mountains, in the woods, rivers, lakes, beaches. That's where I live and there I express my love for you.

Stop blaming me for your miserable life; I never told you there was anything wrong with you or that you were a sinner, or that your sexuality was a bad thing. Sex is a gift I have given you and with which you can express your love, your ecstasy, your joy. So don't blame me for everything they made you believe.

Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures that have nothing to do with me. If you can't read me in a sunrise, in a landscape, in the look of your friends, in your son's eyes... you will find me in no book!

Stop asking me "will you tell me how to do my job?" Stop being so scared of me. I do not judge you or criticize you, nor get angry, or bothered. I am pure love.

Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you... I filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs, inconsistencies... free will. How can I blame you if you respond to something I put in you? How can I punish you for being the way you are, if I'm the one who made you? Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who behave badly for the rest of eternity? What kind of god would do that?

Respect your peers and don't do what you don't want for yourself. All I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that alertness is your guide.

My beloved, this life is not a test, not a step on the way, not a rehearsal, nor a prelude to paradise. This life is the only thing here and now and it is all you need.

I have set you absolutely free, no prizes or punishments, no sins or virtues, no one carries a marker, no one keeps a record.

You are absolutely free to create in your life. Heaven or hell.

I can't tell you if there's anything after this life but I can give you a tip. Live as if there is not. As if this is your only chance to enjoy, to love, to exist.

So, if there's nothing after, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I gave you. And if there is, rest assured that I won't ask if you behaved right or wrong, I'll ask. Did you like it? Did you have fun? What did you enjoy the most? What did you learn?...

Stop believing in me; believing is assuming, guessing, imagining. I don't want you to believe in me, I want you to believe in you. I want you to feel me in you when you kiss your beloved, when you tuck in your little girl, when you caress your dog, when you bathe in the sea.

Stop praising me, what kind of egomaniac God do you think I am?

I'm bored being praised. I'm tired of being thanked. Feeling grateful? Prove it by taking care of yourself, your health, your relationships, the world. Express your joy! That's the way to praise me.

Stop complicating things and repeating as a parakeet what you've been taught about me.

What do you need more miracles for? So many explanations?

The only thing for sure is that you are here, that you are alive, that this world is full of wonders.

- Spinoza

 

Thank you for this.

Reality, stated very simply.

(of course, we can argue about it till the cows come home, but still it is reality IMHO)

[canthai55]

48 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

Everything is possible. 

...if there is hope and faith. 

But, even if it was impossible,  dreaming is free.

Try Living forever

[mauGR1]

4 minutes ago, canthai55 said:

Try Living forever

Nope, i see my physical body as a cloth, when the cloth is worn, I'll get another if i can.

[CharlieH]

I believe it was once said that "no one truly dies until they are forgotten".

[CharlieH]

1 hour ago, ColeBOzbourne said:

I ran across this catch-22 in a book this morning, it reminded me of this thread:  "Can God make a stone so big that He cannot lift it?"

But if you "believe" he can, he has no need to demonstrate i.t

[mauGR1]

3 minutes ago, CharlieH said:

I believe it was once said that "no one truly dies until they are forgotten".

True, and the ones who can manage to give their best efforts for positive values, can live forever. 

No need to name names, but we know plenty of people who left this earth long ago, and are still alive in our thoughts.