Skeptic7 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 3 hours ago, mauGR1 said: can we also agree that a hypothesis may be sold as a theory to the public, or even worse, as a fact ? Absolutely...and especially by the "believer" team. They steal that ball and run with it all the time. Been their M.O. since...forever. Even today with still trying to crowbar Intelligent Design in as an alternate scientific theory. It's not. Or inserting "god" or "creator" in any gap or anything still yet unknown. Or equating consciousness with god without any reason, so much as evidence. Edited August 21, 2021 by Skeptic7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: Religion can often be a good thing for a sense of community and many do help people in practical terms. It also adds to the 'us' and 'them' mentality. So what if god and religion is gone. It would be nice to think it could be love to bring us together but self interest might be enough. As Morrissey said 'If it's not love then it's the bomb that will keep us together'. As we become aware that there is not likely to be a god, and if there is, they are not protecting us, the importance of self control becomes necessary. This is since now we are able to destroy ourselves with bombs, or climate change, or a slow disintegration of society or whatever. Human nature seems to be to protect ourselves and our tribe. It could be that we are not so bad and that, without a god, it can still feel good to help our tribe and others even if it doesn't lead to heaven. It might help if our leaders can send the message, and have policies that back it up, that self interest can be consistent with the interest of society, and that our tribe is now bigger than just your family, political party or religion whether we like it or not. The economic and social policies could act as a carrot and stick to ideally lead to the conclusion that the world is, if not totally fair, a place where if you work hard you can give you and your tribe a decent and free life, and can assist those who can't fend for themselves. The outcome being that you can benefit yourself and that this is consistent with not destroying what others have created. It might sound a bit hopeful but in my opinion an imperfect form of the above exists in many countries like Australia and New Zealand. I appreciate it, but yes, it's a bit hopeful to think that "self interest can be consistent with the interest of society ". ...Actually, that was supposed to be the goal of Christianity.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Skeptic7 said: Absolutely...and especially by the "believer" team. They steal that ball and run with it all the time. Been their M.O. since...forever. Even today with still trying to crowbar Intelligent Design in as an alternate scientific theory. It's not. Or inserting "god" or "creator" in any gap or anything still yet unknown. Or equating consciousness with god without any reason, so much as evidence. This post, not surprisingly, sounds exceedingly biased, and it's really hard to take it seriously. Next you'll blame the believers even when it's raining too much ???? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat is a type of crazy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 (edited) 26 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: I appreciate it, but yes, it's a bit hopeful to think that "self interest can be consistent with the interest of society ". ...Actually, that was supposed to be the goal of Christianity.. Why? Many countries doing OK with this thinking. My idea is self interest through being informed and thinking it through for yourself. Not indoctrination leading to no logic and common sense. Just a cultish belief in heaven and hell and tribalism leading to wars and dodgy crusades and not letting other cultures be. Priests acting badly. A bit of charity too. Put it on the scale and the bad outweighs the good because it's based on a fantasy and control and not on human nature. It's all been said before. Edited August 21, 2021 by Fat is a type of crazy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 6 hours ago, mauGR1 said: I don't really like fanatics too. But, do you really think that, if it was possible to erase religion propaganda from the haters' mind, fanaticism and extremism will cease to exist ? Or even more, would evil disappear from this planet if any religious belief could be erased ? No $ runs it. They use religion to motivate people. They use fear. Fear of god. Athiests use fear too, earth ending climate con, you will die covid. Its all a big $ con really. Cancer kills far more they dont ban junk food or smokes. $ rules. $ gives power. Humans are scum at the top. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 3 hours ago, VincentRJ said: Absolutely! This is a very common political practice. It's a major problem for humanity in general. Economics and 'power over others', tend to rule, and probably always have throughout human history. Scientific investigation has moved towards an economic industry, with large groups of scientists engaging in work as a necessary job to support themselves and their family. The great scientists of the past, such as Galileo, Charles Darwin, Isaac Newton, Albert Einstein, were self-funded and were motivated by curiosity. However, nowadays, most research organizations have to be funded by government grants or some type of 'foundation' which has an economic interest in the outcome of the research. This introduces a bias. 100% correct. Today, humans are chasing behind money, forgetting all ethics, which are almost non-existent, except in media circuses! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 50 minutes ago, Sparktrader said: No $ runs it. They use religion to motivate people. They use fear. Fear of god. Athiests use fear too, earth ending climate con, you will die covid. Its all a big $ con really. Cancer kills far more they dont ban junk food or smokes. $ rules. $ gives power. Humans are scum at the top. At least on something we agree ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 25 minutes ago, ravip said: 100% correct. Today, humans are chasing behind money, forgetting all ethics, which are almost non-existent, except in media circuses! Are you saying that MSM has ethics ? Aren't they humans? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 hour ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: Why? Many countries doing OK with this thinking. My idea is self interest through being informed and thinking it through for yourself. Not indoctrination leading to no logic and common sense. Just a cultish belief in heaven and hell and tribalism leading to wars and dodgy crusades and not letting other cultures be. Priests acting badly. A bit of charity too. Put it on the scale and the bad outweighs the good because it's based on a fantasy and control and not on human nature. It's all been said before. Well, my point is that not much is really changing for the better. Indoctrination may change its clothes, so to speak, but it's still there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat is a type of crazy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 51 minutes ago, Sparktrader said: No $ runs it. They use religion to motivate people. They use fear. Fear of god. Athiests use fear too, earth ending climate con, you will die covid. Its all a big $ con really. Cancer kills far more they dont ban junk food or smokes. $ rules. $ gives power. Humans are scum at the top. Is belief in god really like actions taken to stop the spread of a disease? I am interested who benefits from the so called covid con in Australia. And how do those that benefit influence government decision making? You seem pretty sure so you should be able to provide a clear and articulate response. Sydney shut down a bit late and they have 10 times the cases of Melbourne. Thanks Dan. Imagine if no lockdowns in Sydney. Lots in hospital right now. The causation between junk food and cancer, compared to covid and illness, is just a bit weaker. Also if you eat junk food and drink beer it doesn't affect me. Except taxes in hospitals. That's the reason they don't ban it. They give people a choice. Hard to give people a choice with covid because your actions affect others. I said I'll stop talking covid because it's boring. After this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 29 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: Are you saying that MSM has ethics ? Aren't they humans? I am saying humans have no ethics, except maybe a rare person or two. If we were honest, would we suffer so much and argue and fight about mundane things? By hook or by crook we want to be one better than the other! Sad, but true. Sorry, by the way, what are MSM's? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 21 minutes ago, ravip said: I am saying humans have no ethics, except maybe a rare person or two. If we were honest, would we suffer so much and argue and fight about mundane things? By hook or by crook we want to be one better than the other! Sad, but true. Sorry, by the way, what are MSM's? MSM = mainstream media. Yep, I surely agree with what you say, and MSM is not exempt. Btw, I don't see the competitive spirit as an evil, as far as it's fair... unfortunately, if we are dominated by profit, fairness gets forgotten. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ravip Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 47 minutes ago, mauGR1 said: MSM = mainstream media. Yep, I surely agree with what you say, and MSM is not exempt. Btw, I don't see the competitive spirit as an evil, as far as it's fair... unfortunately, if we are dominated by profit, fairness gets forgotten. Yes, competitive spirit is good and it should be present. Unfortunately, that too is biased. I guess, this is the 'new trend'. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 hours ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: Is belief in god really like actions taken to stop the spread of a disease? I am interested who benefits from the so called covid con in Australia. And how do those that benefit influence government decision making? You seem pretty sure so you should be able to provide a clear and articulate response. Sydney shut down a bit late and they have 10 times the cases of Melbourne. Thanks Dan. Imagine if no lockdowns in Sydney. Lots in hospital right now. The causation between junk food and cancer, compared to covid and illness, is just a bit weaker. Also if you eat junk food and drink beer it doesn't affect me. Except taxes in hospitals. That's the reason they don't ban it. They give people a choice. Hard to give people a choice with covid because your actions affect others. I said I'll stop talking covid because it's boring. After this. Rubbish. Vic far more deaths and Dan is an idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat is a type of crazy Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 It's an interesting topic as to if people who believe in god, i.e. who have faith, are more akin to those who are suspicious of power to a strong degree, e.g. many on Asean Now who believe in conspiracies about elections, covid and or climate change etc , or those that accept the consensus of science and are more likely to comply with such consensus. I am more like the latter and see the former as extrapolating way beyond what they actually know, and on basing their opinions on feelings, and on joining dots for which there is no evidence. This is similar to a belief in god where faith means you start with a belief and work back from there. Others might say I am like a sheep who needs to question things more, and look behind the scenes, and that this is similar to a belief in god where I am making a leap in faith. To that I would say that life in general probably requires some leap of faith from time to time but that no leap is required for following the consensus if you have an open mind. Starting with the premise of things being all due to power, corruption, and lies is a leap of faith that human nature is bad and that nothing is as it seems - a type of paranoia. So we all probably think we have an open mind but stick to our positions. I would like to think following science and not being unnecessarily cynical about each and every decision made by the educated and powerful, while still hopefully keeping an open mind, requires the least leap of faith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 4 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: accept the consensus of science Science is about facts not opinions. A consensus is like the Oscars. Medicine is a science. If 99% of people who get a virus have it mild then it's not serious by definition for most people. Lets stick to facts not opinions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: But if you don't agree that's fine as long as you accept a lot more deaths and people in hospitals. No. 99% mild. The old can stay home. Lockdowns not effective. Punishing the healthy. Its like banning driving licences of good drivers. Ban the idiots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: I rest my case. Right so concede defeat. Thought so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 I guess everyone knows what eugenics is, and in modern times most people cringe at the thought of it. Apart from being immoral, eugenics is apparently unhealthy as well, as it would kill the diversity of genes. Most associate eugenics with the infamous nazi regime, but it's no mystery that e. was popular among most white scientists in America way before the nazis. Just to say that science consensus is not necessarily right, and often it can be bought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 5 minutes ago, Fat is a type of crazy said: Proof is proof. Is it? What proof have you got on god? What proof have u got on 97%? Google? Debunked in 2013. It was 1%. Obama claimed it was 97%. Proven liar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Study found 7% atheist. 93% believe in god. That may be wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Just now, Sparktrader said: I dont know. Just trying to stay on topic, otherwise only God knows what's going to happen ???? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 The more I study science, the more I believe in God. ~Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 minute ago, Sparktrader said: Study found 7% atheist. 93% believe in god. That may be wrong. Imho, in the western world it's about 50/50. Of course many old folks may say they believe because of ingrained bigotry, while the younger may say they don't believe because now it's trendy. (See the science propaganda) 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Go Albert! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 2 minutes ago, Sparktrader said: The more I study science, the more I believe in God. ~Albert Einstein I trust ole Albert. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Over 50yo high Under 30yo low They believe in climate change, woke stuff, crazy socialism, word games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 1 minute ago, mauGR1 said: I trust ole Albert. Smarter than this forum combined 555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mauGR1 Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 3 minutes ago, Sparktrader said: Over 50yo high Under 30yo low They believe in climate change, woke stuff, crazy socialism, word games. Nothing new under the sun, about 70% of the people believe what they are told to believe. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sparktrader Posted August 21, 2021 Share Posted August 21, 2021 Just now, mauGR1 said: Nothing new under the sun, about 70% of the people believe what they are told to believe. Yes but the power of google and youtube to hide the truth. Scary. Google 100 times more powerful than Murdoch. I read former ipcc reports. Riddled with errors. Google has erased so much of the criticism. Mind control 1984 stuff!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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