Do you believe in God and why

[mauGR1]

5 minutes ago, Hummin said:

Without church blessing, many of the missions would not have been carried out. 
 

Alexander the great used religion for his missions and also for motivation and loyality both for his warriors  and those he conquered, and finely thought he became one himself the son of Zevs I believe it was. 

Of course religion was used to unite the tribes into kingdoms, and kingdoms into empires. 

In the same way religion was used to convince all those people to accept money as the currency of such empires.

You can think that religion is a bunch of lies, but the fact is that there would not be a modern society without it.

Now, sometimes i don't like central governments and modern society, but it's impossible to go back in those times, unless some asteroide strikes really hard????

[mauGR1]

9 minutes ago, Hummin said:

And it will happen again and again, because history have an bad record of repeating itself. 

I think that's very good. 

History repeats itself, so we can learn, and hopefully, some day, fully understand. 

Agree with the rest of the post.

Edited July 22, 2022 by mauGR1

[Sunmaster]

3 hours ago, seedy said:

I can not understand why this is so hard to understand ...

Religion = Politics

The end result desired by both is Control.

With that Control comes Power, and with the Power comes Wealth.

There is NO other reason

No religion or Gov't wants you to think for yourself.

None want you to be happy, or fulfilled, or content.

No politician will not say other than "I am from the Gov't and I am here to help you" Do as I say, or suffer the consequences.

No priest will not say other than "Believe" Do as I say, or suffer the consequences.

 

It's harder than you think apparently.

Religions are codified maps of spiritual practice. They usually stem from one teacher/man of knowledge/enlightened person who tried to put into words that which is unfathomable. Other people of the same or similar level of understanding, know very well what they meant when they used their parables and allegories. The problem arises when people of lesser (direct) understanding try to promote those concepts to others. They then distort and corrupt the original teachings, intellectualize them, add a great deal of empty rituals to them and tataaa....religions become the hot mess you're decrying. 

As soon as direct experience leaves the stage, dogma enters and thus creates all sorts of problems. You see the end result of this problem, but that is only a part (although the most visible) of the whole issue. 
Religions were NOT born to control people, but to liberate them from the illusion of the separate self. An illusion that the vast majority of people still live under, unfortunately.

You say "No religion or Gov't wants you to think for yourself." Baseless generalization. If you would study the Bhagavad Gita, the Upanishads, Sufism, Sikhism, Buddhism, Christian mystical teachings, Shamanism, Taoism and many others....you would see that their core is the same: re-binding (re-ligion) the individual to the divine source. Basically the opposite of what you claim.
When it comes to governments though, I have to agree with you. There are some more enlightened/progressive countries (I'm thinking Netherlands, Norway, Sweden, Bhutan perhaps), but we're not quite there yet. 

 

Edited July 22, 2022 by Sunmaster

[TropicalGuy]

8 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

That expression sounds dumb to you because you don't understand it.

An example?

In old times people were brainwashed by dishonest priests, now they are brainwashed by technology.

In other words, form changes, but the substance stays the same????

One example has nothing to do with it. “ nothing new under the sun” means everything has existed before when clearly jet engines , space telescopes and AI , TV etc Did Not. ????????

[mauGR1]

6 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

One example has nothing to do with it. “ nothing new under the sun” means everything has existed before when clearly jet engines , space telescopes and AI , TV etc Did Not. ????????

I told you that you are brainwashed by technology ????

[TropicalGuy]

16 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Of course religion was used to unite the tribes into kingdoms, and kingdoms into empires. 

In the same way religion was used to convince all those people to accept money as the currency of such empires.

You can think that religion is a bunch of lies, but the fact is that there would not be a modern society without it.

Now, sometimes i don't like central governments and modern society, but it's impossible to go back in those times, unless some asteroide strikes really hard????

Religion did none of that. Human nature / minds clearly responsible????with religion only holding back progress. 

[TropicalGuy]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I told you that you are brainwashed by technology ????

You do much “ telling” without evidence, fail to address specific points, branching off into nonsense like above. ????

Dismissed. ????

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

You do much “ telling” without evidence, fail to address specific points, branching off into nonsense like above. ????

Dismissed. ????

I addressed the point .

The evidence is clear, but you don't want to see it.

We can see in history that the majority of the people are tricked into being followers, and this is happening while we're talking. 

If you, or me, or others, for some reason, decide to be a follower, we are entering the cage of the brainwashed. More or less consciously. 

Personally i think it's important, at some stage of one's life, to ask oneself some questions: like "how did i get here ?" etc

 

 

[TropicalGuy]

3 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

I addressed the point .

The evidence is clear, but you don't want to see it.

We can see in history that the majority of the people are tricked into being followers, and this is happening while we're talking. 

If you, or me, or others, for some reason, decide to be a follower, we are entering the cage of the brainwashed. More or less consciously. 

Personally i think it's important, at some stage of one's life, to ask oneself some questions: like "how did i get here ?" etc

 

 

Modern humans around for 200,000 years, in Near East & Europe for 50,000 years, and haven’t fundamentally changed in nature, only in knowledge and achievements.

Homo Sapiens were “new under the sun”. 
 

reason & enlightenment & advanced civilization only 5,000 years old, with modern age of scientific observations & method starting 500 years ago in North Italy but substantially only 300 years old from Western Europe. ????????
 

With endemic woke “progressive” culture in West, humans are regressing back to a new age of modern dark Unreason. ????
 

With leading medical & political institutions now denying science by erasing women as a biological gender, despite cellular dna evidence, or see “ nothing wrong” with Islam for example, or accept that Ancient Egyptians were “black Africans”, contrary to all the scientific & factual evidence, we are in big trouble on the logic & reason front. ????
 

If the scientific & historical institutions (somehow) ever betray our trust & sign up to this <deleted>, we are truly lost, for they and the common people remain amongst the few defenders of reality & sense it seems. ????

[mauGR1]

8 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Modern humans around for 200,000 years, in Near East & Europe for 50,000 years, and haven’t fundamentally changed in nature, only in knowledge and achievements.

Homo Sapiens were “new under the sun”. 
 

reason & enlightenment & advanced civilization only 5,000 years old, with modern age of scientific observations & method starting 500 years ago in North Italy but substantially only 300 years old from Western Europe. ????????
 

With endemic woke “progressive” culture in West, humans are regressing back to a new age of modern dark Unreason. ????
 

With leading medical & political institutions now denying science by erasing women as a biological gender, despite cellular dna evidence, or see “ nothing wrong” with Islam for example, or accept that Ancient Egyptians were “black Africans”, contrary to all the scientific & factual evidence, we are in big trouble on the logic & reason front. ????
 

If the scientific & historical institutions (somehow) ever betray our trust & sign up to this <deleted>, we are truly lost, for they and the common people remain amongst the few defenders of reality & sense it seems. ????

You make many good points, and i agree with most of it.

Perhaps we have just a different concept of what "sense" and "reality " represent. ????

[TropicalGuy]

22 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

Modern humans around for 200,000 years, in Near East & Europe for 50,000 years, and haven’t fundamentally changed in nature, only in knowledge and achievements.

Homo Sapiens were “new under the sun”. 
 

reason & enlightenment & advanced civilization only 5,000 years old, with modern age of scientific observations & method starting 500 years ago in North Italy but substantially only 300 years old from Western Europe. ????????
 

With endemic woke “progressive” culture in West, humans are regressing back to a new age of modern dark Unreason. ????
 

With leading medical & political institutions now denying science by erasing women as a biological gender, despite cellular dna evidence, or see “ nothing wrong” with Islam for example, or accept that Ancient Egyptians were “black Africans”, contrary to all the scientific & factual evidence, we are in big trouble on the logic & reason front. ????
 

If the scientific & historical institutions (somehow) ever betray our trust & sign up to this <deleted>, we are truly lost, for they and the common people remain amongst the few defenders of reality & sense it seems. ????

Woke nonsense spreading further now with “ radical” archeologists proposing not to identify skeletons by race or gender as “ we don’t know how they identified” or it’s “racist”. ????????Monty Python as Science.

[mauGR1]

13 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Woke nonsense spreading further now with “ radical” archeologists proposing not to identify skeletons by race or gender as “ we don’t know how they identified” or it’s “racist”. ????????Monty Python as Science.

Well, you cannot blame religion for that.

[ivor bigun]

1 hour ago, TropicalGuy said:

Woke nonsense spreading further now with “ radical” archeologists proposing not to identify skeletons by race or gender as “ we don’t know how they identified” or it’s “racist”. ????????Monty Python as Science.

yes i read that ,the west gets worse and worse by the day ,shame is the vast majority do  not shout like these fools do on social media .

[KhunLA]

14k+ replies for a yes or no answer, of which neither answer can be proven nor disproven.

 

Mind boggling.

[Orinoco]

2 hours ago, TropicalGuy said:

Woke nonsense spreading further now with “ radical” archeologists proposing not to identify skeletons by race or gender as “ we don’t know how they identified” or it’s “racist”. ????????Monty Python as Science.

They could have a point. 

 

[TropicalGuy]

4 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Well, you cannot blame religion for that.

It’s a new religion of woke dogma ????????

[TropicalGuy]

On 7/23/2022 at 7:46 AM, mauGR1 said:

I addressed the point .

The evidence is clear, but you don't want to see it.

We can see in history that the majority of the people are tricked into being followers, and this is happening while we're talking. 

If you, or me, or others, for some reason, decide to be a follower, we are entering the cage of the brainwashed. More or less consciously. 

Personally i think it's important, at some stage of one's life, to ask oneself some questions: like "how did i get here ?" etc

 

 

Science has answered that question through study of evolution. Advanced mammals inc. Homo sapiens a complete fluke  initiated by a random asteroid strike eliminating the dinosaurs who otherwise would still be in charge here.????????

[Photoguy21]

I believe in me of course I do

[mauGR1]

16 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

Science has answered that question through study of evolution. Advanced mammals inc. Homo sapiens a complete fluke  initiated by a random asteroid strike eliminating the dinosaurs who otherwise would still be in charge here.????????

Yes, asteroids, earthquakes mega-tsunamis have routinely create many effects on the planet, thus, in all likeness, evolutionary developments or regressions and even disapperances.

Yet evolutionary science and literature don't have all the answers, and the more the answers, the more the questions. 

The search for the so called missing ring will go on for long, and perhaps there's no missing ring to be found. 

Actually we should give more respect and study the old legends, which go back to 1000s years before the invention of the script, instead of ridiculing them.

I completely disagree with your description of h.sapiens as a "fluke" ????

[TropicalGuy]

2 hours ago, mauGR1 said:

Yes, asteroids, earthquakes mega-tsunamis have routinely create many effects on the planet, thus, in all likeness, evolutionary developments or regressions and even disapperances.

Yet evolutionary science and literature don't have all the answers, and the more the answers, the more the questions. 

The search for the so called missing ring will go on for long, and perhaps there's no missing ring to be found. 

Actually we should give more respect and study the old legends, which go back to 1000s years before the invention of the script, instead of ridiculing them.

I completely disagree with your description of h.sapiens as a "fluke" ????

evidential science of animal evolution on planet earth is clear. Which has provided sufficient (99%+) answers any reasonable person could possibly want concerning the 15 million year primate origin & development leading to us modern humans????????

[KhunLA]

3 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

evidential science of animal evolution on planet earth is clear. Which has provided sufficient (99%+) answers any reasonable person could possibly want concerning the 15 million year primate origin & development leading to us modern humans????????

Proving the bible is the farce that it is, too easy, but, doesn't answer the query ...

... GOD ... yay or nay ?

 

Nay if taken in the context of the bible ... creating all.  Then he/she/it has a terrible sense of humor.  Cancer, covid, WMD ... what an A$$hole.

 

Yay ... been some miraculous things happen, that simply are hard to explain scientifically.

 

If you believe in GOD, then belief in afterlife follows.  I'm nay on both those.  Any and all version that are preached.

[mauGR1]

12 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

evidential science of animal evolution on planet earth is clear. Which has provided sufficient (99%+) answers any reasonable person could possibly want concerning the 15 million year primate origin & development leading to us modern humans????????

I and many others, including scientists, have many unanswered questions about the theory of evolution. 

A simple and short Google search is just what you need to do.

Glad to help ????

[TropicalGuy]

3 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Proving the bible is the farce that it is, too easy, but, doesn't answer the query ...

... GOD ... yay or nay ?

 

Nay if taken in the context of the bible ... creating all.  Then he/she/it has a terrible sense of humor.  Cancer, covid, WMD ... what an A$$hole.

 

Yay ... been some miraculous things happen, that simply are hard to explain scientifically.

 

If you believe in GOD, then belief in afterlife follows.  I'm nay on both those.  Any and all version that are preached.

Existence of God ???? is “Unfalsifiable” (like a teapot orbiting Pluto; Odds ? Billion to one ?) so can be disregarded as plausible theory but can only be sustained by unevidenced “Faith” of credulous simpletons or societal conformists????

[TropicalGuy]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I and many others, including scientists, have many unanswered questions about the theory of evolution. 

A simple and short Google search is just what you need to do.

Glad to help ????

such view is typically for (1) professional scientists fully understanding the known 99% yet seeking to close the insignificant knowledge gaps for record purposes …..OR

(2) pseudosciencers rejecting the known 99% & claim to seek an (unnecessary unrealistic) 100% absolute truth before “believing” ( clue: they will never accept any 100% completion).

 

You are neither so no logical need to go there ……..without first becoming (1) above????
 

 

[mauGR1]

2 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

such view is typically for (1) professional scientists fully understanding the known 99% yet seeking to close the insignificant knowledge gaps for record purposes …..OR

(2) pseudosciencers rejecting the known 99% & claim to seek an (unnecessary unrealistic) 100% absolute truth before “believing” ( clue: they will never accept any 100% completion).

 

You are neither so no logical need to go there ……..without first becoming (1) above????
 

 

I don't need to convince anyone, not even myself.

Lies, even repeated a million times don't become truth.

The  "insignificant gaps" as you describe them, are not insignificant. Poor Darwin didn't know, but you have no excuses. 

Where did you take that funny 99% figure, perhaps some tv movie, or some comic magazine?

If you can read, read more, it's not wasted time, i promise ????

[TropicalGuy]

6 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

I don't need to convince anyone, not even myself.

Lies, even repeated a million times don't become truth.

The  "insignificant gaps" as you describe them, are not insignificant. Poor Darwin didn't know, but you have no excuses. 

Where did you take that funny 99% figure, perhaps some tv movie, or some comic magazine?

If you can read, read more, it's not wasted time, i promise ????

So nothing is truly known & some discovered fragment might unravel everything. Right got it. Moved you now to category (2). We’re done. ????

[mauGR1]

15 minutes ago, TropicalGuy said:

So nothing is truly known & some discovered fragment might unravel everything. Right got it. Moved you now to category (2). We’re done. ????

It's ok to be  ignorant, but it's nothing to be so proud .

Evolution of the species is a theory, not a law and not a fact.

There are flaws in that theory, if you are truly interested in science, and not just posing, you'll find out by yourself. 

[KhunLA]

46 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

If you can read, read more, it's not wasted time, i promise ????

Yea, it is.   I really don't care about the past, it's gone, and nothing evolution wise interests or benefits my 'now'.   Really not that interested in the future, as don't really expect to be around that long, 10 maybe, 15 or 20 more years, that's a stretch.

 

My future references are more like, when the damn EV gettin' here, Xmas ?.  What to do with the ICE, though I think that is solved.   Now, where to go first, on a 2 week out & about ?

 

Got about 4 months to plan, so plenty of time to set up new house, and that's my future till next year.  That's about as far as I can, or need to think ahead.  Pass New Years is a mystery, just the way like it.  

 

My fellow Christian brothers (real brothers) are hard thinking and expecting the 2nd coming or eternal afterlife.  Praise Jesus.  Yea, we don't talk much ...  ????  At least avoid that subject.

 

I'm busy chuckling at the folk worried about that 1°C uptick in the temp over the next 100 yrs they won't be around for, or even happen.  Or the 30cm of rising tide that is a big nothing.  

 

More wasted time, and the ultimate waste ... thinking about space travel & colonization of other rocks out there.  That will never .... ever happen.  

 

Can't even keep shuttles safely in the air.  And at the speed of 'you're dead before you arrive' ... ????

Edited July 24, 2022 by KhunLA

[mauGR1]

19 minutes ago, KhunLA said:

Yea, it is.   I really don't care about the past, it's gone, and nothing evolution wise interests or benefits my 'now'.   Really not that interested in the future, as don't really expect to be around that long, 10 maybe, 15 or 20 more years, that's a stretch.

 

My future references are more like, when the damn EV gettin' here, Xmas ?.  What to do with the ICE, though I think that is solved.   Now, where to go first, on a 2 week out & about ?

 

Got about 4 months to plan, so plenty of time to set up new house, and that's my future till next year.  That's about as far as I can, or need to think ahead.  Pass New Years is a mystery, just the way like it.  

 

My fellow Christian brothers (real brothers) are hard thinking and expecting the 2nd coming or eternal afterlife.  Praise Jesus.  Yea, we don't talk much ...  ????  At least avoid that subject.

 

I'm busy chuckling at the folk worried about that 1°C uptick in the temp over the next 100 yrs they won't be around for, or even happen.  Or the 30cm of rising tide that is a big nothing.  

 

More wasted time, and the ultimate waste ... thinking about space travel & colonization of other rocks out there.  That will never .... ever happen.  

 

Can't even keep shuttles safely in the air.  And at the speed of 'you're dead before you arrive' ... ????

Lol, apart from your hate for reading, your disbelief in afterlife and supernatural intelligent design, i would say that we are on the same page ????

[TropicalGuy]

43 minutes ago, mauGR1 said:

It's ok to be  ignorant, but it's nothing to be so proud .

Evolution of the species is a theory, not a law and not a fact.

There are flaws in that theory, if you are truly interested in science, and not just posing, you'll find out by yourself. 

Evolution is Fact. Overwhelming Evidence. Gravity is Fact. Overwhelming Evidence. Also no credible alternatives. Both are also (proven) Theories. There are no “flaws” that matter a damn. 

Absolutists are pointless disrupters, never experts, finding “flaws” in everything & never satisfied. would argue black is white or night is day.

Usually also pseudo- scientists, Flat Earthers & Moon Landing Deniers or Creationists ????????????
 

Example: Earth is 4.7 billion years old but some say 4.6. Disrupter says “so we don’t know how old the earth is !”. Yeah,  we do it’s 4.6 to 4.7 billion years old. The difference is insignificant.????