Judicial System Experience

[ajcnx]

For long time expats living in Thailand, Do you have any personal experience in Judicial System in Thailand ? How were you treated as Foriegner ?

Civil or Criminal cases involved , how was your lawyer ? were you explained good enough on the cases against you ? Or did you sue someone who is Thai ?

[lordblackader]

So what are you in trouble for? ????

[ezzra]

30 odd years in this country and my experience with the local laws are mostly if not all, bad, the system here doesn't cater for foreigners, only Thais, i had a fair share of suing locals and a foreigner, lawyers are mostly are out for themselves, charging fortun for little results, my advice, avoid legal issues at all costs and specially lawyers, settle all disputes the best you can and be smart and you will save yourself lots of money, time and frustrations...

[JingerBen]

1 hour ago, ezzra said:

30 odd years in this country and my experience with the local laws are mostly if not all, bad, the system here doesn't cater for foreigners, only Thais, i had a fair share of suing locals and a foreigner, lawyers are mostly are out for themselves, charging fortun for little results, my advice, avoid legal issues at all costs and specially lawyers, settle all disputes the best you can and be smart and you will save yourself lots of money, time and frustrations...

OP, whatever other advice you may get, come back to this post and take it to heart.

It's spot on.

[orang37]

Short version: deep pocket$ trump truth or evidence; the lawyers alway$ win.

 

~o:37;

[rumak]

agree that its best to avoid conflicts ,  even if it involves a little ..god forbid...loss of face on your part.

But it is a slow day on TV if you care to tell us your story and accept the missiles that will be launched

by our esteemed members.

[Greenside]

Stay away from any kind of legal dispute with Big Power, i.e. those with money and/or influence.  From personal experience I can tell you that honest lawyers may be threatened with career derailment, police will lose files and evidence or consign them to a bottom drawer and supporters and witnesses quickly lose enthusiasm and metaphorically run for the hills.  This in an "open and shut" case of residential building mismanagement with multiple offences recorded by both the police and land office.

 

It's not because foreigners are involved it's simply that the system is broken and you'll end up with nothing but sleepless nights, depleted pockets and a major worry that somehow your next visa extension won't run smoothly.

[Trujillo]

The judicial system is a lot more than just suing someone. 

 

Case in point, I have an ongoing matter regarding theft. The police handled the case as well as could be expected and the perpetrator was found and confessed. The case is now in the court and is being adjudicated in Bangkok with the "attorney general" regarding a point of law. 

I will have my day in court.

 

I have not retained a lawyer and have done whatever needs to be done myself. I was even able to locate the Chiang Mai prosecutor who will be hearing the case, who informed me of the process. I will not be accompanied by a lawyer in court. And my reading is not quite at the level to understand Thai legal documentation. I have someone help me with that. 

 

There is a notion, both here and abroad, that if you have any dealings with the law, you must have an attorney to represent you. This is largely untrue. Of course this does not include you being arrested for something, in which case you may be unable to properly obtain the legal information you need. 

 

I have found that all the officials I have dealt with have been friendly and helpful. Some of the police officers have been less than sanguine at times, but I think some of their behavior was for the benefit of the underlings.

 

I don't know what you specifically are asking, OP ajcnx, so a little narrowing of the scope might help you. 

 

By the way: "...the system here doesn't cater for foreigners, only Thais..." seems a little odd from someone of such long standing here. Unless of course you mean they don't provide all the documentation in English for you, then yes, they only cater to Thai speakers and readers. I am not aware of a two-tiered legal system in the same vein as the dual pricing system for foreigners and Thais as in, say, national parks here. 

Edited April 24, 2019 by Trujillo
grammar

[ajcnx]

9 hours ago, Trujillo said:

The judicial system is a lot more than just suing someone. 

 

Case in point, I have an ongoing matter regarding theft. The police handled the case as well as could be expected and the perpetrator was found and confessed. The case is now in the court and is being adjudicated in Bangkok with the "attorney general" regarding a point of law. 

I will have my day in court.

 

I have not retained a lawyer and have done whatever needs to be done myself. I was even able to locate the Chiang Mai prosecutor who will be hearing the case, who informed me of the process. I will not be accompanied by a lawyer in court. And my reading is not quite at the level to understand Thai legal documentation. I have someone help me with that. 

 

There is a notion, both here and abroad, that if you have any dealings with the law, you must have an attorney to represent you. This is largely untrue. Of course this does not include you being arrested for something, in which case you may be unable to properly obtain the legal information you need. 

 

I have found that all the officials I have dealt with have been friendly and helpful. Some of the police officers have been less than sanguine at times, but I think some of their behavior was for the benefit of the underlings.

 

I don't know what you specifically are asking, OP ajcnx, so a little narrowing of the scope might help you. 

 

By the way: "...the system here doesn't cater for foreigners, only Thais..." seems a little odd from someone of such long standing here. Unless of course you mean they don't provide all the documentation in English for you, then yes, they only cater to Thai speakers and readers. I am not aware of a two-tiered legal system in the same vein as the dual pricing system for foreigners and Thais as in, say, national parks here. 

Thanks for sharing your experience, I am just curious of knowing some of the experiences of different people as I have been studying Thai Laws in last 2 years . I have worked as an interperator for more than 50 cases in Chiangmai Civil and Criminal court . What i have experienced is no matter you are at fault or not everybody try to push you accept the charges no matter you have done it or not . 

[Inn Between]

8 minutes ago, ajcnx said:

What i have experienced is no matter you are at fault or not everybody try to push you accept the charges no matter you have done it or not . 

 

I'm sure that's not unique to Thailand. It seems over 90% of those charged with crime in the "land of the Free", USA, never see a courtroom and are often bullied into accepting the charges, commonly in some watered-down form. No criminal system fairly serves the poor. 

[amexpat]

I personally know a farang who sued a wealthy Thai to collect a substantial debt and won. 

Thai lawyer charged a very reasonable sum and presented an air-tight case. 

And, yes, the payments are coming in on time. 

 

Sorry, bar stool experts. 

 

[Teak]

I mentioned this case awhile ago where a young Canadian boy was murdered by a Thai policeman, who then shot a young Canadian girl in Pai. She survived and sued the Royal Thai Police. She could only afford a young Thai female lawyer and it took ten years, but she was successful in court; was awarded a considerable settlement and after another year of waiting, the money was transferred to her.

This young lady was brave and tenacious. I would have walked away as my opinions are somewhat similar to other posters regarding  these situations. However, "might is right" did not seem to apply in this particular situation. However, being a young, female, attractive tourist can't hurt.

 

 

 

[DLock]

I have been, and still are, involved in numerous legal cases, some of considerable size.

 

My personal experience is that the system works, it's just very, very slow, and yes as a result of the time, the amount of paperwork, and you wanting update meetings to make sure rings are moving, lawyers fees can get expensive....but that is the same in most countries.

 

If you really want to take a matter to court, be prepared for a year or 2 to actually get to the first court date, be prepared for the the other party to not turn up the first 2 sessions and waste more of your time and money, and be patient with the legal process.

 

The actual court process is a bit of a pantomime, but I did not feel that being a foreigner was any disadvantage. The law prevailed.

 

If you are looking for a quick legal process, I recommend that you seriously consider the arbitration process, which the court will usually insist on as a way to avoid going to court.

[ajcnx]

5 hours ago, Teak said:

I mentioned this case awhile ago where a young Canadian boy was murdered by a Thai policeman, who then shot a young Canadian girl in Pai. She survived and sued the Royal Thai Police. She could only afford a young Thai female lawyer and it took ten years, but she was successful in court; was awarded a considerable settlement and after another year of waiting, the money was transferred to her.

This young lady was brave and tenacious. I would have walked away as my opinions are somewhat similar to other posters regarding  these situations. However, "might is right" did not seem to apply in this particular situation. However, being a young, female, attractive tourist can't hurt.

 

 

 

Thanks for sharing . Me too I am aware of this story , She went through a lot of difficulties but Brave enough not to leave the matter 

[Marvin70]

We had an officer who stole over 500.000 THB in 2 years. We sued the person and went to court. Judge agreed with us (Western and Thai) and the person was given 5 months to return the amount, which received or face 5 years jail. Took us 3 times going to the court and 85.000 for a laywer. Worth it.

[Nip]

The entire Thai judicial system is a maleable commodity bought and sold to the highest bidder. It favors the rich and powerful over the poor and disadvantaged. It defies rhyme or reason despite the laws being in essence or principle adequate. One judge one day summed it all up in court. When he said to me with a smirk ... ' and you trusted your lawyer?' You are dealing with a system that is operated by a Lawyers Council in which a lawyer is shielded it's more of a fraternity. And courts that operates without precedence, stenography and accountability and add into that heady mix the Royal Thai Police Farce. Stay away. 

[Nip]

On 4/24/2019 at 4:40 AM, Trujillo said:

The judicial system is a lot more than just suing someone. 

 

Case in point, I have an ongoing matter regarding theft. The police handled the case as well as could be expected and the perpetrator was found and confessed. The case is now in the court and is being adjudicated in Bangkok with the "attorney general" regarding a point of law. 

I will have my day in court.

 

I have not retained a lawyer and have done whatever needs to be done myself. I was even able to locate the Chiang Mai prosecutor who will be hearing the case, who informed me of the process. I will not be accompanied by a lawyer in court. And my reading is not quite at the level to understand Thai legal documentation. I have someone help me with that. 

 

There is a notion, both here and abroad, that if you have any dealings with the law, you must have an attorney to represent you. This is largely untrue. Of course this does not include you being arrested for something, in which case you may be unable to properly obtain the legal information you need. 

 

I have found that all the officials I have dealt with have been friendly and helpful. Some of the police officers have been less than sanguine at times, but I think some of their behavior was for the benefit of the underlings.

 

I don't know what you specifically are asking, OP ajcnx, so a little narrowing of the scope might help you. 

 

By the way: "...the system here doesn't cater for foreigners, only Thais..." seems a little odd from someone of such long standing here. Unless of course you mean they don't provide all the documentation in English for you, then yes, they only cater to Thai speakers and readers. I am not aware of a two-tiered legal system in the same vein as the dual pricing system for foreigners and Thais as in, say, national parks here. 

Your gonna learn the hard way. The rule of thumb in Thailand is ..... TRUST LEAST those who SMILE MOST. You will have your day alright but I fear not the one you expect.

[malibukid]

On 4/24/2019 at 8:18 PM, Inn Between said:

 

I'm sure that's not unique to Thailand. It seems over 90% of those charged with crime in the "land of the Free", USA, never see a courtroom and are often bullied into accepting the charges, commonly in some watered-down form. No criminal system fairly serves the poor. 

in America Justice is Just Ice

[Dania2019]

Take care what You writing if you like to live here

[PerkinsCuthbert]

I have no direct experience of the Thai justice system, but a general principle in life, along the lines of knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em, has served to keep me relatively sane for upwards of seven decades, and might usefully be applied to the present question. 

[DILLIGAD]

Your gonna learn the hard way. The rule of thumb in Thailand is ..... TRUST LEAST those who SMILE MOST. You will have your day alright but I fear not the one you expect.

Agree. In Thailand, what is better than having a lawyer that knows the law, is one that knows the Judge (1st hand experience on this).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[golfpro47]

I lived with a Thai girl for quite a few Years it was a good relationship for most of the time but as a lot of people (Farang)know it doesn’t always last.

 I was working outside of Thailand on a regular basis and things started to change in our relationship and then I found out she has started gambling losing and borrowing money to feed her gambling habit.

Coming Home one time she had asked me to go to a Wedding in Bangkok which I refused due to what had happened at the previous one we went to,after paying for the Whisky and Beer I was “one of the boys”after refusing to buy anymore they all(Thai guys) left the table,so I refused to go to this one.

So she went off to Bangkok with the daughter for 3 Days,I went round to friends of ours to see why they hadn’t been round to our House as they always came round,then the news came to me from them as they wouldn’t come round as my girl wanted them to lie to me about her playing cards,they wouldn’t do that but told me what she had been up to and now had problems with the mafia as she had borrowed from them.

Confronting her when she came back home from Bangkok she eventually told me some of the things she had done to get money to gamble.so with what she told me I kicked her out of the House and next Day started Legal proceedings to get the House back.

 I was confronted by all the Bar Beer Lawyers and the neigh sayers all telling me I was an idiot for trying to get the House back as everything was in her name.

 I took no notice of the doom sayers and pressed on, I hired a Thai Lawyer,it took just under a Year to finalize the Case which I won and got the House back,it cost me 200,000baht but I was very happy the way that the Lawyer performed and thought his Costs were very reasonable,obviously this is a wartered down version of events but if anyone is interested in knowing ask and I will try to help.

[StevieAus]

6 minutes ago, PerkinsCuthbert said:

I have no direct experience of the Thai justice system, but a general principle in life, along the lines of knowing when to hold 'em and when to fold 'em, has served to keep me relatively sane for upwards of seven decades, and might usefully be applied to the present question. 

Not a bad principle to have if I may say.

I am a retired lawyer who specialized in a specific jurisdiction of the law in Australia.

My advice to my clients while denying myself fees was to try and avoid litigation if at all possible, when you allow another person ( a Judge ) to make the decision you lose control and there is usually only one winner and one loser.

Unfortunately many people make decisions based on emotion rather than cost and it is often to their detriment.

I have seen examples in the Family Law area drag on for years and at huge financial cost due to the stubbornness of the individual/s.

Very very sad.

[MadMuhammad]

1 hour ago, golfpro47 said:

I lived with a Thai girl for quite a few Years it was a good relationship for most of the time but as a lot of people (Farang)know it doesn’t always last.

 I was working outside of Thailand on a regular basis and things started to change in our relationship and then I found out she has started gambling losing and borrowing money to feed her gambling habit.

Coming Home one time she had asked me to go to a Wedding in Bangkok which I refused due to what had happened at the previous one we went to,after paying for the Whisky and Beer I was “one of the boys”after refusing to buy anymore they all(Thai guys) left the table,so I refused to go to this one.

So she went off to Bangkok with the daughter for 3 Days,I went round to friends of ours to see why they hadn’t been round to our House as they always came round,then the news came to me from them as they wouldn’t come round as my girl wanted them to lie to me about her playing cards,they wouldn’t do that but told me what she had been up to and now had problems with the mafia as she had borrowed from them.

Confronting her when she came back home from Bangkok she eventually told me some of the things she had done to get money to gamble.so with what she told me I kicked her out of the House and next Day started Legal proceedings to get the House back.

 I was confronted by all the Bar Beer Lawyers and the neigh sayers all telling me I was an idiot for trying to get the House back as everything was in her name.

 I took no notice of the doom sayers and pressed on, I hired a Thai Lawyer,it took just under a Year to finalize the Case which I won and got the House back,it cost me 200,000baht but I was very happy the way that the Lawyer performed and thought his Costs were very reasonable,obviously this is a wartered down version of events but if anyone is interested in knowing ask and I will try to help.

I went through a 2 year property battle in Australia and it cost me the equivalent of 1.5mil baht for the same time period. All up I was billed for approximately 40 hours. 

Your fees would cover around 6 hours 555

 

Congratulations. 2 wins for you in my book 

Edited April 27, 2019 by MadMuhammad

[justin case]

1 hour ago, DILLIGAD said:

Agree. In Thailand, what is better than having a lawyer that knows the law, is one that knows the Judge (1st hand experience on this).

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw some law offices that "rented" to you if you wished : a retired judge, or high police officer... big steep prices ...  

[TGIR]

Had a dispute with home builder.  Paid $60K for a piece of property and builder wouldn't furnish Chanote (title) as promised.  Filed a complaint with Consumer Affairs dept.  Had a hearing in front of what was supposed to be some kind of Judge.  We gave testimony, Builder gave testimony which in our favor.  Never heard from Consumer Affairs about the outcome.   Wife has cousin who works for P.M.  Asked her to look into it for us......she couldn't find out anything at all.

 

about 18 mos later we got a notice we were being sued for rent (house wasn't completed and we never took possession).  Counter-sued for the $60K and 400,000 baht which we had spent on uninstalled plumbing, marble etc. for bathrooms, which we had left on site and had never asked for re-reimbursement, but added to lawsuit as long as builder had decided to sue us when we had actually just walked away from the $60K and wrote it off.  Spent 200,000 baht on a Thai attorney who never even presented our written evidence that builder had promised title but refused to deliver: builder even acknowledged receipt of our money and refusal to give us the title or refund our money.  Lawyer never, as far as I could tell, did anything but sit on his ass watching.

 

Got reprimanded in public by the "judge" for crossing my legs in the courtroom.  He had my wife on the stand for four hours instructing her on contract law, as near as I could tell, as everything was done in Thai of course.  (I think I really got chewed out for glaring at the Judge after a couple of hours). Builder (a retired pediatrician, female, with American husband who never came to court) admitted everything just as in the prior testimony with the Consumer Affairs Office.  Was asked if we wanted to arbitrate, we said yes then the judge said O.K., go ahead.  By that time I had enough and loudly said (WHAT?) expecting we would be sent off with our attorneys to a private room.  Nope, just do it right there in open court.  Builders attorney made some ridiculous offer to which I said not a chance.  Ordered by Judge to counter, so I countered with us getting back our $60k and builder could keep everything but the money......final verdict:   Builder got to keep all the stuff we left behind and $30K our money.

 

Stupid builder could have just keep the whole $60K and we would have never spoken about it again, but for whatever reason they decided to sue......So we got half our money back after 2 days of court which was like anything I'd ever seen.  I won't go into any of what I witnessed but I will tell you and anyone within earshot NEVER go to court in Thailand........they'll just end up splitting the baby so everyone goes home with something whether they deserve it or not.  I paid a lawyer a lot of money to sit on his ass and do absolutely nothing, while I got to sit on a wooden bench for several hours that would have been better spent watching the tide come and go.

 

 

[Mansell]

On April 24, 2019 at 8:05 PM, ajcnx said:

Thanks for sharing your experience, I am just curious of knowing some of the experiences of different people as I have been studying Thai Laws in last 2 years . I have worked as an interperator for more than 50 cases in Chiangmai Civil and Criminal court . What i have experienced is no matter you are at fault or not everybody try to push you accept the charges no matter you have done it or not . 

Is this my friend in CHIANG MAI with the first initial B?

[NoshowJones]

On 4/25/2019 at 9:25 PM, amexpat said:

I personally know a farang who sued a wealthy Thai to collect a substantial debt and won. 

Thai lawyer charged a very reasonable sum and presented an air-tight case. 

And, yes, the payments are coming in on time. 

 

Sorry, bar stool experts. 

 

I personally witnessed a case in a Thai court of where a farang with a Thai lawyer who spoke good English representing him, won his case, his lawyer told him that his divorce papers would be through within two weeks.

His lawyer then emailed him these two weeks later and said that the judge had changed her mind and decided that she did not believe him.

[johnmcc6]

On 4/23/2019 at 1:00 PM, JingerBen said:

OP, whatever other advice you may get, come back to this post and take it to heart.

It's spot on.

Dtto. Avoid at all costs.

[ThomasThBKK]

Litigation cases take around 2 years here but can be won against thais.

Take a GOOD lawyer that won multiple cases in front of the surpreme court if you can. They won't take any crap lawyer serious in court imho, that's why most people struggle here - most lawyers here simply suck but there are good ones.