Trump pulling U.S. out of U.N. arms treaty, heeding NRA

[xylophone]

4 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

Colonists shot quite a few tyrannical politicians but in my mind, they didn't shoot enough.  We almost got to that level but luckily Trump won the election.

I would suggest that you are way past that level at this moment in time!

[atyclb]

8 hours ago, bluesofa said:

As a Brit who can't understand as what I see as an obsession with guns, I just don't get why there are even more guns needed?

The often quoted second amendment about the 'right to bear arms', seems no more bizarre to me than the 'right to arm bears'.

 

 

do british schools teach british history?

[CGW]

19 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

The reason why the right to bear "arms" is a protected right, protected by the 2nd Amendment to the United States Federal Constitution, and protected by many State Constitutions, is there, is so we as The People can shoot politicians and other tyrants who might try to take over country and government.

 

Got that?  We own guns so we can shoot dishonest politicians.  Read the Federalist Papers.

I'm agreeing with you - don't shoot the messenger ???? 

[riclag]

34 minutes ago, Scutty said:

These nra guys need a bullet in the head IMO . They are responsible for countless murders and crimes in the USA .

 more nonsense, In America It's a guns rights group . It's a lawful organization that promotes gun safety through seminars,laws,tips and how to use them . It helps teach 5 million Americans of which 1 million are democrat ! The anti gun activist  are made up of liberals mostly leftest to denounce and deligitimize the members rights to bare arms and belong to a group that promotes safety !

Edited April 28, 2019 by riclag

[spidermike007]

6 hours ago, bluesofa said:

Good guys in, bad guys out?

As BJ's over there now, do you reckon he's about to get involved in US gun law - assuming he has a work permit?

His qualifications and credibility are such that he could not qualify for a stock boy position at Walmart. 

[4675636b596f75]

4 minutes ago, riclag said:

 more nonsense, In America It's a guns right group . It's a lawful organization that promotes gun safety through seminars,laws,tips and how to use them . It helps teach 5 million Americans of which 1 million are democrat ! The anti gun activist  are made up of liberals mostly leftest to denounce and deligitimize the members rights to bare arms and belong to a group that promotes safety !

You forgot to mention Eddie Eagle - teaching young children firearm safety.

 

My son from the age of 5 was always around guns.  Loaded guns.  He knew never to touch a firearm.  He knew and still knows, that all firearms are considered loaded even when you may know it is not.  

 

If he wanted to handle a gun, all he had to do was ask.  

 

He never touched a gun without me present.  

 

Not once.  He was taught properly from an early age.

[4675636b596f75]

Guns don't kill people.  Socialists do.

 

[spidermike007]

7 hours ago, Spidey said:

My google says 60%. Gun deaths in US standing at 12 deaths per 100,000 people, even excluding suicides that leaves close to 5 deaths per 100,000 people. Figures for some other Western countries (including suicides): UK - 0.3, Japan - 0.2, Germany 0.9 and Canada - 2.1.

 

Us is one of the top 6 countries in the world for gun deaths, alongside Brazil, Mexico, Columbia, Venezuela and Guatemala. Proud to be an American?

Not really. No. It is quite a low point in history to be an American. Make America great again? Effective slogan.  Not going to happen. Whatever "greatness" America had is behind her now. It is the waning days of the Western Roman empire, circa 465AD,  prior to Odoacer marching into Rome and sacking the city. People just don't see it. The empire is declining at a stunning pace. Trump is no doubt accelerating the decline precipitously.

 

The fascinating thing about Trump, is that he barely even tries to hide his astonishing degree of moral and ethical character deficits.  

[thaibeachlovers]

6 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Not really. No. It is quite a low point in history to be an American. Make America great again? Effective slogan.  Not going to happen. Whatever "greatness" America had is behind her now. It is the waning days of the Western Roman empire, circa 465AD,  prior to Odoacer marching into Rome and sacking the city. People just don't see it. The empire is declining at a stunning pace. Trump is no doubt accelerating the decline precipitously.

 

The fascinating thing about Trump, is that he barely even tries to hide his astonishing degree of moral and ethical character deficits.  

You said something I agree with!

Western civilization is on it's way out. We have become too soft, too corrupt, too fat and lazy.

A more ruthless, and powerful civilization will defeat us, provided we don't use the nuclear option and burn everything. No prizes for guessing which civilization it will be.

Never mind, we'll be getting high and debating what gender we are while the enemy is invading.

Edited April 28, 2019 by thaibeachlovers

[geoffbezoz]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

You said something I agree with!

Western civilization is on it's way out. We have become too soft, too corrupt, too fat and lazy.

A more ruthless, and powerful civilization will defeat us, provided we don't use the nuclear option and burn everything. No prizes for guessing which civilization it will be.

The second coming perhaps ?

[spidermike007]

5 hours ago, Odysseus123 said:

Well, Georges Clemenceau once remarked that "America was the only country that he knew of which had gone from barbarism to decadence without any intervening stages"

 

Apparently the posters here are stuck somewhere on the Indian frontier circa 1765 a'loadin their muskets and eternally on the watch for shadows in the night..

 

Which makes the US a very conflicted society. Decadence prevails, yet there is an overwhelming need to cling to an almost Victorian degree of false puritanism. 

 

Crime in the US is not nearly as high as alot of gun owners would profess. The problem with owning a gun is that you may find yourself in a position of having to use it, assuming your son does not find it first, and do something really inane with it. Killing a man or woman is a serious thing. Something alot of people would have a hard time living with. Yet, many on this forum who have never killed go on and on about how easily they could take a life, if someone broke into their house, or tried to jack their car. Really?

Edited April 28, 2019 by spidermike007

[bluesofa]

3 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

Which makes the US a very conflicted society. Decadence prevails, yet there is an overwhelming need to cling to an almost Victorian degree of false puritanism. 

 

Crime in the US is not nearly as high as alot of gun owners would profess. The problem with owning a gun is that you may find yourself in a position of having to use it, assuming your son does not find it first, and do something really inane with it. Killing a man or woman is a serious thing. Something alot of people would have a hard time living with. Yet, many on this forum who have never killed go on and on about how easily they could take a life, if someone broke into their house, or tried to jack their car. Really?

I think that's a very valid point about killing someone in reality.

Having said that, perhaps Americans wouldn't have a problem with killing. So much of US TV seems to have violence and shooting, that they perhaps see it as acceptable?

[geoffbezoz]

3 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

without the United States and the innovations we have invented, you would still be throwing your fecal matter into the street from the pot you put it in.  We invented the industrial revolution.  We invented the assembly line to bring all the rest of the world with us as we elevated the lives of Americans throughout the country.  

 

We export ideas.  What has your country exported to rival the United States?

One of the greatest things Europe has exported to the US is the religious and pious crackpots and puritanical cranks that either could not live in a civilized Europe or else were not wanted. The benefit of that is for all the world to see in a confused, hypocritical country called the US where you even have elevated a crack pot to the President.

[4675636b596f75]

1 minute ago, geoffbezoz said:

the US where you even have elevated a crack pot to the President.

We voted a patriot to be our President.  

 

Guns don't kill, socialists do.

[geoffbezoz]

7 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

We voted a patriot to be our President.  

 

Guns don't kill, socialists do.

You got a show on TV as a stand up comedian perhaps ?????

[riclag]

Ban all entertainment that glorifies violence, starting with music,movies and video games!  Perhaps the celebrities  will sponsor such a radical moral idea! cha ching, cha ching

15 minutes ago, bluesofa said:

I think that's a very valid point about killing someone in reality.

Having said that, perhaps Americans wouldn't have a problem with killing. So much of US TV seems to have violence and shooting, that they perhaps see it as acceptable?

 

Edited April 28, 2019 by riclag

[4675636b596f75]

Just now, riclag said:

Ban all entertainment that glorifies violence, starting with music,movies and video games!  Perhaps the celebrities  will sponsor such a radical moral idea! cha chig, cha chig

 

If you did this in Thailand, what would be left to broadcast during the day?

[Justgrazing]

20 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

hypocritical country called the US where you even have elevated a crack pot to the President.

Given some of what he comes out with you'd swear he'd been on the crack and pot .. 

[Baerboxer]

9 hours ago, bluesofa said:

As a Brit who can't understand as what I see as an obsession with guns, I just don't get why there are even more guns needed?

The often quoted second amendment about the 'right to bear arms', seems no more bizarre to me than the 'right to arm bears'.

 

 

Americans enjoy, and have always enjoyed freedoms, since the founding of their nation. They have the right to bear arms to protect themselves, their families and their property and rights. America is a young nation and its wise founding fathers not only saw the tyranny of oppressive autocratic rule by elites around them, and from which they'd managed to escape but were visionary and maybe had thoughts of how in the future "people's governments" might seek to control and rule people rather than govern them. If you look to Europe, you can see how the various governments across Europe have sought to increase state control and therefore reduce individual freedoms.

In the UK, we have more cctv surveillance than any other country. Our police can, and do, track vehicles 24/7 etc. Yet we have massive increasing street crimes, home break-ins, violent assaults. Yet UK governments and local governments do all they can to restrict people's ability to defend themselves, their property and their families. There has been a large shift towards more liberalized societies in which the criminal is treated with compassion and society blames whilst the victims are either forgot or in some way almost blamed.

 

If I lived in many American states I could legally carry guns, knives, swords, impact weapons etc to protect myself. Should I use them aggressively and to attack others then I'd be in trouble of course. In the UK I can't carry anything. Nothing. Zilch. I rely on some police officer seeing me being attacked on cctv and then response time if he/she decides to alert a patrol. 

 

I know which I prefer.

[PatOngo]

2 hours ago, howbri said:

You don't understand because Brits are used to having their govt run their lives. We have a Constitution that gives the power TO THE PEOPLE. America is on the brink of civil war because the socialists/communists/elitists/democrats want to return us to pre-Constitution days when we had to bow before the king. Ain't gonna happen cupcake. THAT'S WHY we have guns.

Yee Haa!

[watcharacters]

3 minutes ago, PatOngo said:

2 hours ago, howbri said:

You don't understand because Brits are used to having their govt run their lives. We have a Constitution that gives the power TO THE PEOPLE. America is on the brink of civil war because the socialists/communists/elitists/democrats want to return us to pre-Constitution days when we had to bow before the king. Ain't gonna happen cupcake. THAT'S WHY we have guns.

Yee Haa!

[geoffbezoz]

1 minute ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Americans enjoy, and have always enjoyed freedoms, since the founding of their nation. They have the right to bear arms to protect themselves, their families and their property and rights. America is a young nation and its wise founding fathers not only saw the tyranny of oppressive autocratic rule by elites around them, and from which they'd managed to escape but were visionary and maybe had thoughts of how in the future "people's governments" might seek to control and rule people rather than govern them. If you look to Europe, you can see how the various governments across Europe have sought to increase state control and therefore reduce individual freedoms.

In the UK, we have more cctv surveillance than any other country. Our police can, and do, track vehicles 24/7 etc. Yet we have massive increasing street crimes, home break-ins, violent assaults. Yet UK governments and local governments do all they can to restrict people's ability to defend themselves, their property and their families. There has been a large shift towards more liberalized societies in which the criminal is treated with compassion and society blames whilst the victims are either forgot or in some way almost blamed.

 

If I lived in many American states I could legally carry guns, knives, swords, impact weapons etc to protect myself. Should I use them aggressively and to attack others then I'd be in trouble of course. In the UK I can't carry anything. Nothing. Zilch. I rely on some police officer seeing me being attacked on cctv and then response time if he/she decides to alert a patrol. 

 

I know which I prefer.

Do you live, or have lived in the US then ? If not you are in no position having not had exposure to that society, to be able make any sort of informed judgement as to what is, or  what is not, preferable. Other of course then the rose tinted glass concept of "the grass must be greener on the other side"

[4675636b596f75]

35 minutes ago, geoffbezoz said:

Do you live, or have lived in the US then ? If not you are in no position having not had exposure to that society, to be able make any sort of informed judgement as to what is, or  what is not, preferable. Other of course then the rose tinted glass concept of "the grass must be greener on the other side"

I don't live, nor have I ever lived in North Korea. If I had to make a choice between living in England, or America and North Korea, I don't have to go there to definitively tell you that I would not like to live there. I don't need to live among the people of North Korea, or live under the petty dictatorship of the fat one. I know my choice of country is better than going there. Your argument is specious and therefore is rejected.

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

without the United States and the innovations we have invented, you would still be throwing your fecal matter into the street from the pot you put it in.  We invented the industrial revolution.  We invented the assembly line to bring all the rest of the world with us as we elevated the lives of Americans throughout the country.  

 

We export ideas.  What has your country exported to rival the United States?

My country is America. I say all of this as an American, who is witnessing the decline of an empire. If you cannot see it, that is not my issue. I agree America has accomplished alot. But the country is so broken on so many levels, that is will be very hard to fix. And it will require alot more than a president that is so incompetent, that he could not collude with Russia, due to the disobedience of those around him, rather than his desire and willingness to commit felonies. 

[spidermike007]

1 hour ago, bluesofa said:

I think that's a very valid point about killing someone in reality.

Having said that, perhaps Americans wouldn't have a problem with killing. So much of US TV seems to have violence and shooting, that they perhaps see it as acceptable?

Interesting debate. However, as easy as video games and TV make it look, taking a man's life is a whole different game. It is something you and your family will have to live with, the rest of your life. And whether it is justified or not, it is still a life you have taken, and there are bound to be consequences. 

 

It is not nearly simple as millions of American gun owners, who have never killed anything bigger than a bird or a rabbit, think t is. 

[4675636b596f75]

11 minutes ago, spidermike007 said:

My country is America. I say all of this as an American, who is witnessing the decline of an empire. If you cannot see it, that is not my issue. I agree America has accomplished alot. But the country is so broken on so many levels, that is will be very hard to fix. And it will require alot more than a president that is so incompetent, that he could not collude with Russia, due to the disobedience of those around him, rather than his desire and willingness to commit felonies. 

 name one felony.

[Justgrazing]

3 minutes ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

 Must be from Wikipedia. Rejected

Is that it .? 

[4675636b596f75]

Just now, Justgrazing said:

Is that it .? 

 your question lacks specificity

[Jonnapat]

NRA holds the trump cards just like it always has.

What a really sad situation. 

[simple1]

3 hours ago, 4675636b596f75 said:

The reason why the right to bear "arms" is a protected right, protected by the 2nd Amendment to the United States Federal Constitution, and protected by many State Constitutions, is there, is so we as The People can shoot politicians and other tyrants who might try to take over country and government.

 

Got that?  We own guns so we can shoot dishonest politicians.  Read the Federalist Papers.

Out of curiosity which of the Federalist Papers authorises an individual to assassinate someone who meets the criteria above e.g. trump