800,000 in account after extension. Start date?

[scottiejohn]

 My retirement extension was granted on 25 Feb 2019 with 800,000 in the bank.  New Exension now expires 4 April 2020.
We all know the money has to be in the bank 2/3 months beore application but does anyone know if the keeping 800,000 for 3 months after exension starts on exension approval date (25 Feb 2019) or acual renewal date (4 April 2019).

[ubonjoe]

The order went into effect on March 1st.

It seems people that did their extension application before March 1st are not included in it even though their extension was effective after March 1st.

[scottiejohn]

Thanks for that but in general do you have any info on what date the retention starts for those doing it now, or myself next year.

The dates for next year in my case are all to do with moving province/IO Office/banks etc and moving 400,000 from bank one to bank 2 so that 400,000 is in both banks at the same time and then move the remaining 400,000 from bank 1 to bank 2 to put that in bank 2 in a fixed account to get bank 2 back up to the 800,000. The timings may be critical for some and just profit maximizing for others.

 

PS; In CM the difference in dates can be up to 45 days!

Edited May 7, 2019 by scottiejohn
PS; added.

[ubonjoe]

After you apply for your extension next year the new rules will apply to you.

The 800k baht will need to be in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply and then 3 months after the day you apply. Then 400k baht until you top up your account for your next year extension.

[twizzian]

I renewed my extension on the 26th Apr. I asked the IO about the the 800/400k requirement, and my reply was don’t worry you can take it all out as we haven’t been given the new orders.

So I did!

 

So I’m wondering if there are other Immigrations that have held back too 

[travelerjim]

14 minutes ago, twizzian said:

I renewed my extension on the 26th Apr. I asked the IO about the the 800/400k requirement, and my reply was don’t worry you can take it all out as we haven’t been given the new orders.

So I did!

 

So I’m wondering if there are other Immigrations that have held back too 

Did you get that in writing ???

Good luck with your next extension.

[flexomike]

1 hour ago, twizzian said:

I renewed my extension on the 26th Apr. I asked the IO about the the 800/400k requirement, and my reply was don’t worry you can take it all out as we haven’t been given the new orders.

So I did!

 

So I’m wondering if there are other Immigrations that have held back too 

I think you were given wrong information, new rule says you have to keep 800,000 in for three months after and can not go below 400,000

[Pib]

1 hour ago, twizzian said:

I renewed my extension on the 26th Apr. I asked the IO about the the 800/400k requirement, and my reply was don’t worry you can take it all out as we haven’t been given the new orders.

So I did!

 

So I’m wondering if there are other Immigrations that have held back too 

You made a big mistake.

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, twizzian said:

I renewed my extension on the 26th Apr. I asked the IO about the the 800/400k requirement, and my reply was don’t worry you can take it all out as we haven’t been given the new orders.

So I did!

 

So I’m wondering if there are other Immigrations that have held back too 

What Immigration office?  It really is a critical question. 

[marcusarelus]

18 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

After you apply for your extension next year the new rules will apply to you.

The 800k baht will need to be in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply and then 3 months after the day you apply. Then 400k baht until you top up your account for your next year extension.

Will they check the old bank account if you open a new account 90 days before your extension renewal?  To comply with the law one must only have 800k in the bank 90 days before the extension. 

[ubonjoe]

15 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Will they check the old bank account if you open a new account 90 days before your extension renewal?  To comply with the law one must only have 800k in the bank 90 days before the extension. 

Every thing in the rules states months not days. It is now 2 months before the date you apply for the extension that the 800k baht has to be in the bank.

Under the new rules I assume they would want to see your old bank book before you apply for the extension to confirm you have met the requirements. People have been told that is when they will check it at several immigration offices.

[stephenterry]

23 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

Will they check the old bank account if you open a new account 90 days before your extension renewal?  To comply with the law one must only have 800k in the bank 90 days before the extension. 

I'm going to expand on UJ's statement to cover a first time extension using the 800k rule.

 

If this would be your first renewal under the new rules, the law (which could be interpreted differently) states that the 800k must be seasoned in a commercial Thai bank for two months before the application date, not three months (albeit some offices require three months). Then after the extension is granted a further three months from the day of issue should expire before you can withdraw up to 400k, leaving 400k in perpetuity.

 

Come your second extension, which is the same method as before, you will still need to show that the 400k remained in the account throughout the year and topped up to 800k two months before the application.

 

Therefore you cannot open up a new account without them requiring the evidence from your old passbook.

 

But, as I have mentioned several times, until the whole process is made countrywide similar at all Imm offices, best to use an agent to resolve any potential pitfalls.

 

And BTW, if you can meet and show the income requirement from a pension source, you can invest your lump sum into far better products than a Thai commercial bank account where the interest rate is abysmal. Try investing in three-year bonds issued by the Thai Government Savings Bank at various intervals which has a far greater potential return at no risk. Pity Imm will not accept that method.

    

 

 

 

[MikeN]

18 hours ago, scottiejohn said:

Thanks for that but in general do you have any info on what date the retention starts for those doing it now, or myself next year.

 

 

 The police order does say “ At least 2 months prior to filing date, and at least 3 months after being granted permission, the alien must have fund deposited in a bank in Thailand “

The countback for seasoning is from date of application, so I would think that is also the start of the post approval period too. In other words, money has to stay there for 3 months from the date your extension was granted.

 But as we all know, each office is it’s own little kingdom with it’s own rules so the only way to be certain is to ask your local immigration office.

[GreasyFingers]

I am in the same position as the OP with my IO at Phetchabun. Extension application on 12 Feb 2019 extended to 7 March 2020. Was given a sheet in English that clearly states "The applicant then must leave the 800,000 baht untouched in the Thai bank account for 3 months after the one year visa is granted." It then gives an example of how the dates would apply.

 

As long as this English version is a proper translation of the Thai Order it is 3 months from the day of approval.

In spite of what UJ says I was told the new rules would apply to me and could not touch the money until May, not June.

[attrayant]

I don't remember where I found this graphic, but it seems to agree that everything revolves around the filing date, not the extension expiration/renewal date.  In this example, the filing date is July 1.  The actual retirement extension expiration date could be 30-45 days later.
 

[marcusarelus]

1 hour ago, stephenterry said:

I'm going to expand on UJ's statement to cover a first time extension using the 800k rule.

 

If this would be your first renewal under the new rules, the law (which could be interpreted differently) states that the 800k must be seasoned in a commercial Thai bank for two months before the application date, not three months (albeit some offices require three months). Then after the extension is granted a further three months from the day of issue should expire before you can withdraw up to 400k, leaving 400k in perpetuity.

 

Come your second extension, which is the same method as before, you will still need to show that the 400k remained in the account throughout the year and topped up to 800k two months before the application.

 

Therefore you cannot open up a new account without them requiring the evidence from your old passbook.

 

But, as I have mentioned several times, until the whole process is made countrywide similar at all Imm offices, best to use an agent to resolve any potential pitfalls.

 

And BTW, if you can meet and show the income requirement from a pension source, you can invest your lump sum into far better products than a Thai commercial bank account where the interest rate is abysmal. Try investing in three-year bonds issued by the Thai Government Savings Bank at various intervals which has a far greater potential return at no risk. Pity Imm will not accept that method.

 

2.4% instead of 2.2% not much difference between a bond and a FD which is acceptable and I've not used an agent in 20 years and think they are not well informed in my experience. 

[smedly]

IMO using an agent for your next renewal will leave you in the same position as the OP - you have broken the rules and your next renewal will be rejected - further penalties unknown 

 

An agent right now will take your money - will they guarantee your next renewal when you have obviously broken the rules ? they might tell you  "no problem" as you hand them 20k baht - no risk to them

 

That is the big question that nobody can answer right now

[Scott424]

35 minutes ago, smedly said:

IMO using an agent for your next renewal will leave you in the same position as the OP - you have broken the rules and your next renewal will be rejected - further penalties unknown 

 

An agent right now will take your money - will they guarantee your next renewal when you have obviously broken the rules ? they might tell you  "no problem" as you hand them 20k baht - no risk to them

 

That is the big question that nobody can answer right now

My guess is the agents will find a way to process the application next year otherwise those (agents) who survive on the large payoffs will be out of business after this year.  Just the same as the immigration officials who accept the payoffs will want to continue to accept the payoffs after this year thus they will find a way with the agents to continue the process.

[marcusarelus]

8 minutes ago, Scott424 said:

My guess is the agents will find a way to process the application next year otherwise those (agents) who survive on the large payoffs will be out of business after this year.  Just the same as the immigration officials who accept the payoffs will want to continue to accept the payoffs after this year thus they will find a way with the agents to continue the process.

In my direct experience many Immigration agents have lost their position or whole offices been transferred because of accepting payoffs.  I would not bet on anything for next year. 

[stephenterry]

5 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

2.4% instead of 2.2% not much difference between a bond and a FD which is acceptable and I've not used an agent in 20 years and think they are not well informed in my experience. 

Up to you. I have given my advice. You can choose to ignore it, but don't come crying to me if it doesn't work out.

 

IMO, you know nothing and refuse to accept another's opinion..  

[stephenterry]

5 hours ago, smedly said:

IMO using an agent for your next renewal will leave you in the same position as the OP - you have broken the rules and your next renewal will be rejected - further penalties unknown 

 

An agent right now will take your money - will they guarantee your next renewal when you have obviously broken the rules ? they might tell you  "no problem" as you hand them 20k baht - no risk to them

 

That is the big question that nobody can answer right now

You are being stupid. For buddha's sake, get up to speed.

 

[stephenterry]

4 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

In my direct experience many Immigration agents have lost their position or whole offices been transferred because of accepting payoffs.  I would not bet on anything for next year. 

Rubbish

[smedly]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

You are being stupid. For buddha's sake, get up to speed.

 

do explain

 

If you have received some sort of guarantee about agent use in 12 months well bully for you - like I said, they might take your money now and might even guarantee your next extension in 12 months - good luck with that

 

I can see it now - arriving at your agent in 12 months passport in hand, need to renew - no can do solly………………...what then lol

 

you will have an extension you got 12 months ago that didn't meet the requirements i.e post 400k seasoning for 9 months and post 800k 3 months 

Edited May 8, 2019 by smedly

[stephenterry]

3 minutes ago, smedly said:

do explain

The agent I use is beyond reproach. Every nuance is explained and my legal options are clearly defined. Whilst there maybe some who don't walk the line, it's not my case. In any event, lending is not unlawful, and if some choose that path, it's up to them.

 

What you do need to understand is that there are ways and means to be seen to comply with IMM requirements for many years, and that will continue in the current situation. Any respectable agent would not risk losing clients - because it's their bread and butter.

 

I am confident that by using a recommended agent in this transitional period, any potential pitfalls would be eliminated.

[marcusarelus]

2 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Up to you. I have given my advice. You can choose to ignore it, but don't come crying to me if it doesn't work out.

 

IMO, you know nothing and refuse to accept another's opinion..  

OK Mr agent man here's your big chance to make me look like I don't know nothing. 

 

You wrote, "And BTW, if you can meet and show the income requirement from a pension source, you can invest your lump sum into far better products than a Thai commercial bank account where the interest rate is abysmal. Try investing in three-year bonds issued by the Thai Government Savings Bank at various intervals which has a far greater potential return at no risk"

 

So tell us how much more you would earn on 800k in a 3 year bond as opposed to a Fixed Deposit account for one year? 

[marcusarelus]

3 hours ago, stephenterry said:

Rubbish

The entire Rayong office was replaced with new people recently.  So no, not rubbish. 

And it is a large busy office as it services one of the largest industrial areas of Thailand. 

Edited May 8, 2019 by marcusarelus

[smedly]

9 hours ago, stephenterry said:

The agent I use is beyond reproach. Every nuance is explained and my legal options are clearly defined.

sorry my friend but "your legal options" if I am understanding you correctly - are not legal at all, you have been paying an agent who in turn bribes an IO to ignore the seasoning rules - Let me make it clear that everyone to their own - I have no issue with people paying bribes to skirt the law...up to them

 

If you believe your agent will be able to skirt the new rules which are entirely different than the previous then up to you - I personally don't have issue with you or anyone else taking that route, I am simply pointing out that it will be too late in 12 months time to do much about it if your trusty agent says - solly cannot do

 

I personally don't use agents to bribe my way to get an extension approved, I hope in 12 months time it works out ok for you    

[stephenterry]

10 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

OK Mr agent man here's your big chance to make me look like I don't know nothing. 

 

You wrote, "And BTW, if you can meet and show the income requirement from a pension source, you can invest your lump sum into far better products than a Thai commercial bank account where the interest rate is abysmal. Try investing in three-year bonds issued by the Thai Government Savings Bank at various intervals which has a far greater potential return at no risk"

 

So tell us how much more you would earn on 800k in a 3 year bond as opposed to a Fixed Deposit account for one year? 

My apologies for acting grumpily yesterday, but a few posters who, maybe mistakenly, act as if they know-it-all, are usually people I don't mix with or respond to.

 

However, below is a summation that might offer you an insight into how you could benefit from a lump sum investment instead of depositing it in a commercial bank.  It is correct up to mid 2018. 

 

It would be advisable to take a Thai along to a branch to find out the latest bond offers, if the latest tranche is available, and if there are any (new) restrictions for non-Thai. Mainly because I've found in CM that very few staff if at all, in any GSB branch speak English.

 

The unique factor, apart from being exempt from paying government tax on the bond interest, is that every month (usually) on the 16th, there is a lucky number draw, with many monetary prizes, as much as 10m baht. Yes, 10m. According to one of the staff when I enquired a few years ago, if a deposit of 500k minimum is made it is guaranteed to win at least one award - proven statistical evidence.

 

As it transpired my 500k earned me 100k prize money on the first month's draw, and although the majority of monthly prize money was around  600-1500 baht that is in addition to the basic bond deposit earning tax-free income.

 

What I did was to take my G/F along, purchase a lump sum of bonds - each numbered bond costs 20k - and contracted that either of us could sign to withdraw at any time after the first 3 months, a GSB requirement, if needed. I kept the bonds safe!

 

It's actually quite fun updating my bankbook after the 16th to see what prize money I've won  - in my case every single month last year, albeit I've never won one of the larger prizes again. But it sure beats any commercial bank deposit return.

 

I hope that helps.

 

     

[stephenterry]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

sorry my friend but "your legal options" if I am understanding you correctly - are not legal at all, you have been paying an agent who in turn bribes an IO to ignore the seasoning rules - Let me make it clear that everyone to their own - I have no issue with people paying bribes to skirt the law...up to them

 

If you believe your agent will be able to skirt the new rules which are entirely different than the previous then up to you - I personally don't have issue with you or anyone else taking that route, I am simply pointing out that it will be too late in 12 months time to do much about it if your trusty agent says - solly cannot do

 

I personally don't use agents to bribe my way to get an extension approved, I hope in 12 months time it works out ok for you    

You misunderstand - as usual. The reference to 'legal options' in MY case is a complete understanding of the new regulations that would be accepted by CM Imm. I.E. the basic lump sum deposit, the Income method, and hopefully the combo method, which I'm more interested in as it would free up a lump sum.

 

I've never skirted any rules or asked my agent any other that what do I have to produce to comply with the regs?  As far as agent/IO interaction is concerned I would hope that my application wouldn't be subject to any IO whim on the day and that my extension goes through smoothly. It's worth paying 8k which includes the fee and cost of photocopies for peace of mind until the new regs are completely absorbed and understood by IOs, agents, and applicants, at CM Imm office.

 

BTW, it's not unlawful/illegal to borrow money from a third party, as one could do for buying a condo, car or whatever. That's not skirting IMM rules to have a debt from a finance company. Maybe It'll cost around 25k in interest, which could be considered acceptable by some who don't have the luxury of a sizeable deposit to hand.

 

   

 

[marcusarelus]

32 minutes ago, stephenterry said:

My apologies for acting grumpily yesterday, but a few posters who, maybe mistakenly, act as if they know-it-all, are usually people I don't mix with or respond to.

 

However, below is a summation that might offer you an insight into how you could benefit from a lump sum investment instead of depositing it in a commercial bank.  It is correct up to mid 2018. 

 

It would be advisable to take a Thai along to a branch to find out the latest bond offers, if the latest tranche is available, and if there are any (new) restrictions for non-Thai. Mainly because I've found in CM that very few staff if at all, in any GSB branch speak English.

 

The unique factor, apart from being exempt from paying government tax on the bond interest, is that every month (usually) on the 16th, there is a lucky number draw, with many monetary prizes, as much as 10m baht. Yes, 10m. According to one of the staff when I enquired a few years ago, if a deposit of 500k minimum is made it is guaranteed to win at least one award - proven statistical evidence.

 

As it transpired my 500k earned me 100k prize money on the first month's draw, and although the majority of monthly prize money was around  600-1500 baht that is in addition to the basic bond deposit earning tax-free income.

 

What I did was to take my G/F along, purchase a lump sum of bonds - each numbered bond costs 20k - and contracted that either of us could sign to withdraw at any time after the first 3 months, a GSB requirement, if needed. I kept the bonds safe!

 

It's actually quite fun updating my bankbook after the 16th to see what prize money I've won  - in my case every single month last year, albeit I've never won one of the larger prizes again. But it sure beats any commercial bank deposit return.

 

I hope that helps.    

So tell us how much more you would earn on 800k in a 3 year bond as opposed to a Fixed Deposit account for one year? I don't think we really need the bingo reference as opposed to earning interesst.