Mandatory health insurance for non-immigrant O-A retirement visa holders likely to take effect in July

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

15 minutes ago, DUNROAMIN said:

 

So it seems after todays Nation report anybody holding a Non Immigrant O-A retirement visa will maybe required to have health insurance on renewing their next 1 year extension of stay.

 

O-A visas are one thing... Extensions of stay based on retirement are a different thing.

 

It remains to be seen whether they intend to apply the insurance requirement to retirement based extensions of stay.

 

[marcusarelus]

1 minute ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

O-A visas are one thing... Extensions of stay based on retirement are a different thing.

 

It remains to be seen whether they intend to apply the insurance requirement to retirement based extensions of stay.

 

What does "renewing your one-year permits-to-stay mean"?

 

A. Extending your retirement visa?

B.  Extending your permission to stay?

C.  I don't know?

The requirement applies to all new applicants for one-year non-immigrant O-A visas, and for those applying to “renew” their one-year permits-to-stay, he said.

 

 

 

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, gdhm said:

I offer this article I found today:

https://thethaiger.com/thai-life/compulsory-health-insurance-for-foreigners-will-it-affect-you

 

As I am here, I have observed in this and some recent topics, that a few fellow members seem to have a perverse kind of pleasure, in taking opportunity to infer or directly suggest those "not rich" living here in Thailand, who are worrying or struggling with one new Immigration requirement or another, are less worthy to be here. I find it very sad that these few, seem to prefer judging others based upon wealth alone, rather than judging us by our morals, decency and honesty. What pleasure may I ask, does anybody get trying to undermine the confidence of those already worrying they may have to leave and maybe leave their families!

 

Well said! I've been posting similar thoughts for ages because there're some very nasty pieces of work on this forum. I've started doing something that in my twelve years on here I've resisted and that's using the "ignore" button. Trouble is, there're so many of these weird people that I've ended up with lots of pages of ignored users. Never mind, the forum's a nicer place without them. Shame that you can't also block their imojis!

Edited May 16, 2019 by jesimps

[lemonjelly]

Only Non O-A visas... Non O visas not included?


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[KhaoYai]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

For O-A visa there is no requirement to hold Thai baht in a Thai bank.

Yeah well, lets wait for clarification on the visa categories affected. If Dr, Natthawut is really seeking to put an end to the unpaid hospital bills he quotes, he is possibly 'barking up the wrong tree'. Their own figures, although very questionable seem to identify O-A holders as the major culprits behind these 'unpaid bills' yet I'd suspect that the majority of retired ex-pats are on extensions. If that is the case, he's not going to solve the problem by targeting only those on O-A's.

 

However, at the moment they are talking about O-A's and renewals thereof. As far as I know, a 12 month O-A can only be renewed once - for a futher 12 months.  I don't know but if you originally entered on an O-A and then applied for an extension, would your visa category not remain O-A? How many have done that and how many 'converted' a different type of entry?

 

If it pans out the new rules are only in respect of O-A visas and extensions are a totally different category, that changes the picture for a lot of people. Also, if it turns out that it is only those on O-A visas, those affected would be able to simply leave and re-enter under a different category and extend that - thereby not having to obtain insurance.  I really can't see that changing things from the Thai perspective and I suspect a mistake.

 

However, as I say, let's wait for clarification - Dr. Natthawut may realise he's made a mistake - hopefully not.

 

Also, be prepared for 'local interpretaion' of who the the insurance requirement applies to across different immigration offices.

Edited May 16, 2019 by KhaoYai

[jesimps]

1 hour ago, micmichd said:

They should make it mandatory then. Those short-stay tourists are obviously the group that leave most unpaid bills in Thailand. 

I should imagine that the most likely candidates for needing hospital treatment are the manual labourers from neighboring Laos, Cambodia and Myanmar. Those injured travelling in the back of pick-up trucks must make up a high percentage. Also building site and factory injuries must be pretty frequent too, especially to their bare feet! I can't see some old codgers from Europe or the US exerting themselves or putting themselves in line of danger in the same way. Add to that, as you say, the short stay tourists falling off motorbikes and you can understand who the majority of those responsible for the unpaid bills are. I personally have never heard of a long stay farang not paying a medical bill.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

3 minutes ago, marcusarelus said:

What does "renewing your one-year permits-to-stay mean"?

 

A. Extending your retirement visa?

B.  Extending your permission to stay?

C.  I don't know?

The requirement applies to all new applicants for one-year non-immigrant O-A visas, and for those applying to “renew” their one-year permits-to-stay, he said.

 

Good questions...

 

It could mean... upon applying for an O-A, and then reapplying for a new O-A again after its initial one-year period....

 

Or, it could be their vague way of talking about retirement extensions....  But so far, that's only speculation...

[Lovethailandelite]

1 hour ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

Ya... how many years have they been talking about making health insurance a requirement for tourists... and yet... never done it...

 

Instead, they take aim at the 0-A population that isn't the group chiefly responsible for the unpaid hospital bills they're complaining about.

 

And the reason they haven't made it a requirement for tourists is...if they were to do so...their precious annual arrival numbers would drop and many tourists would go elsewhere instead of being bothered.

 

Personally, I would never travel abroad without appropriate health insurance cover. But the world is full of cheapo tourists who don't want to put up with those kinds of requirements. And even the dimwit policy makers here understand that.

 

That's why every time Chinese tourism takes a hit because dozens die in boat sinkings, the government here rushes to waive visa on arrival fees for Chinese, Indians and others.... and sometimes waive general tourist visa application fees.... Amounting to what...piddly amounts per traveler in the context of international travel.

 

 

Agreed and none of this aiming at O-A visa holders makes any sense. Neither do the figures of how many O-A visa holders in 2018 and basically using those visa holders as responsible.
I firmly believe something, somewhere has either been lost in translation or an understanding by the spokesman of MoPH of how they intend to work this or indeed, who it will effect. Hence the earlier quote of "But it should be stressed that we are still awaiting clarification from Immigration regarding the interpretation and implementation of the new mandatory health insurance rules, including who exactly is affected". 
I think there well maybe be a surprise or two when this finally gets written up.

Edited May 16, 2019 by Lovethailandelite

[utalkin2me]

It seems they stated their reasons for targeting o-a. Impossible to know the full story. 

 

If I step back objectively, retirees are by definition not working (ie can't pay a bill off on a monthly basis as perhaps say a married teacher could), retirees are not married (ie no actual legit attachment to any Thai citizen.... I think we all know that means a lot here), retirees could well have fled their own country for fear of not being able to pay future medical bills, lastly.... maybe some thai officials dropped by thai visa and read some of the comments and deduced ages based on comments. That is a half joke but seriously, cmon guys there are basic levels of human decency. 

[Lovethailandelite]

Box:

Bad medical debts from expats have been cited in the move to make health insurance mandatory for foreigners aged 50 and above who are living in Thailand on a one-year long-stay visa.

2016

Number of foreign visitors: 32 million

Number of medical visits by them: 2.6 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 71,288

Number of unpaid medical bills: 667,000

Outstanding debt: Bt380 million

2017

Number of foreign visitors: 35 million

Number medical visits by them: 3.3 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 68,696

Number of unpaid medical bills: 565,000

Outstanding debt: Bt346 million

2018

Number of foreign visitors: 38 million

Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950

Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000

Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

Proposed mandatory health insurance 

Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment

Bt400,000 coverage for inpatient treatments

Source:Department of Health Service Support

[Andrew Dwyer]

Indeed, must admit I wasn't aware of that.   I thought that it just expired and required a new visa, not extension.   This is the MFA edict:
 
http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4908/15385-Non-Immigrant-Visa-"O-A"-(Long-Stay).html

Yup, this MFA website also states that you need a Thai police check as well as your home country, that wasn’t the case 2 1/2 years ago!!

Also never seen it in writing about squeezing a 2nd year from the OA .
I learnt that trick on TVF , and this week a poster with an OA was surprised to find that out .

[pookiki]

10 minutes ago, Lovethailandelite said:

Box:

Bad medical debts from expats have been cited in the move to make health insurance mandatory for foreigners aged 50 and above who are living in Thailand on a one-year long-stay visa.

2016

Number of foreign visitors: 32 million

Number of medical visits by them: 2.6 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 71,288

Number of unpaid medical bills: 667,000

Outstanding debt: Bt380 million

2017

Number of foreign visitors: 35 million

Number medical visits by them: 3.3 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 68,696

Number of unpaid medical bills: 565,000

Outstanding debt: Bt346 million

2018

Number of foreign visitors: 38 million

Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950

Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000

Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

Proposed mandatory health insurance 

Bt40,000 coverage for outpatient treatment

Bt400,000 coverage for inpatient treatments

Source:Department of Health Service Support

I see that the Nation has revised the statistics that were originally published. This would appear to indicate that someone at the Nation did not report the statistics correctly in the first instance.  Despite what an earlier poster noted about a hospital in Chiang Mai, I find it difficult to believe that it a person in Thailand on an O-A visa and or an extension of stay would be all that difficult to chase down to pay an outstanding hospital bill.  All the Thai government would need to do is to flag those individuals with outstanding bills with immigration computers. If and when these individuals applied for an extension of stay and/or left or re-entered the country, make them pay under threat of arrest and/or deportation.  Personally, it the nearly 14 years I've lived here, I've never heard of anyone falling to pay for medical services.  

 

I would also posit that the MOPH has the wherewithal to tell the government and the Thai people who exactly is responsible for the outstanding medical bills by visa category and whether such people were tourists.  However, the disclosure of this information would most likely fail to support the hysteria that MOPH is whipping up about retirees.

[Mosha]

Can I self identify as a car?

[Lovethailandelite]

It doesn't make sense to include a Thai Insurance being acceptable for a one year visa bought in the UK, US, China etc.
I can see the logic for an O-X being included in that. The visa is for 10 years (2 x 5 year blocks) so highly likely those people will be here for that time period so likely to renew. What is logic to get a Thai insurance or indeed, any insurance for an O-A Visa if, after the first year, you won't need to have it anymore? Unless they are going to apply this to extensions, I really don't see where it's going?
No doubt, it will all become clear shortly.

[sambum]

12 hours ago, pookiki said:

The statistics cited in the article are absurd!  In addition, the use of such misinformation is inflammatory and defamatory towards expat retirees in Thailand.  This will only serve to create ill-will towards the retired expat community in Thailand.

 

I would implore all the embassies in Thailand with retirees in Thailand to condemn the MOPH in issuing such erroneous information in support of their efforts to implement mandatory medical insurance for O-A visa holders and future applicants -and the issue as it applies to those retirees on extension of stay is still very murky.

 

To have this issue surface just a few days ago with an implementation date of 1 July only serves to create an atmosphere of panic and forces retirees to make decisions that will not be in their best interests.  

 

Since the decision of the US, UK, and Australia to cancel their affidavits/income verification, the Thai government has taken numerous steps that appear to indicate and unwillingness to accommodate and understand expat retirees in Thailand.  The issuance of the statistics in this news article must be questioned and the MOPH must recognize that the problems of unpaid medical bills is not a problem being caused by expat retirees in Thailand. 

Hear, hear!

[malagateddy]

Fully aware of that but seriously do think they can or would be able to check
Anyway Agents will up their fee to include such certificate..job done!
 

Ok..but if you are rushed to hospital with eg..a burst ulcer .. exactly what good will a " mickey mouse " bit of forged paper do you.

NOT A LOT

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[sambum]

11 hours ago, Peterw42 said:

You can take Indonesia and Vietnam off the list as they both have compulsory insurance for expats.

Have you a link re Vietnam - a bar stool lawyer I know disagrees!

[humbug]

someone posted the link thread on the guy working for the health industry with his call centre chasing unpaid bills, at the end of the article he states the stages, first stage one group of foreigners, final stage tour company foreigners all requiring insurance, yes its a sellout of immigration to the health industry, yes  the plan might not work or only be left at the first stage, who knows with this crime gang, how long they can stay around, but thats maybe the reason why 30-40 million foreigners was put in the nation article, even with lost in translation, if their whole plan succeeds, thats 30-40 million people on various stays etc paying 50-100 billion baht to the health industry every year, thats the whole point of their wacko greed plan, when you have a crime gang happily sell elephants, forests etc they will happily sell out foreigners to the health industry.

 

i also think agents will make an extra killing in all of this and good luck to them and those that use them, because this feels like one big almighty scam

[sambum]

11 hours ago, jonesthepost said:

Not only medication but conning people into all sorts of test that are not needed and overcharging for those 

 

Good point, although already mentioned. Possibly a great proportion of "bill skippers" wouldn't be doing it if the prices were more reasonable, and if the Government had clamped down on these blatant scams (as they said they were going to do!) then there would be less need for these latest "fleece the elderly farang" measures!

[Tracyb]

For what it’s worth......

I have been looking at Thai embassy and Thai consulate websites in Canada and USA searching for requirements for O-A and O-X visa applications.  The O-X requirements include the insurance policy.  The O-A requirements do NOT!

 

Just sayin.

 

It all remains to be seen, eh?

[Pattaya46]

2 minutes ago, Tracyb said:

// The O-X requirements include the insurance policy.

The O-A requirements do NOT! //

Did you read this thread, or at least its title ? From July. 

[Andrew Dwyer]

For what it’s worth......
I have been looking at Thai embassy and Thai consulate websites in Canada and USA searching for requirements for O-A and O-X visa applications.  The O-X requirements include the insurance policy.  The O-A requirements do NOT!
 
Just sayin.
 
It all remains to be seen, eh?

The OA has been around many years and has never required health insurance.
The OX is relatively new ( less than 1 year ? ) and they introduced the health insurance requirement.

Now ( from July 1 ) all new OA visas require the health insurance, so it hasn’t happened yet therefore is not on Embassy websites.

[sfokevin]

2 hours ago, Lovethailandelite said:

2018

Number of foreign visitors: 38 million

Number of medical visits by them: 3.42 million

Number of non-immigrant (O-A) visa holders: 80,950

Number of unpaid medical bills: 680,000

Outstanding debt: Bt305 million

Can or will the Health Department tell us of the 305 million in outstanding debt what percentage of this is due to foreign visitors (I assume this means tourists) and what percent is due from long term visa holders?...

 

Also what does the term “Outstanding Debt” mean?... Is this the loss for that year or the cumulative over all the past years?

 

Its sad that they can’t find a way to add a 100 baht surcharge to all flight arrivals to cover these costs... But instead they are choosing to turn this into a police enforcement exercise...  

 

 

Edited May 16, 2019 by sfokevin

[Mango Bob]

I think they are being unfair to those who need to have health insurance to start it on 1 July.  They should give a year of grace to get the insurance.  It will not be easy for those over 70 to find a health insurance company to take you.  It is not going to happen overnight.

[marcusarelus]

3 minutes ago, Mango Bob said:

I think they are being unfair to those who need to have health insurance to start it on 1 July.  They should give a year of grace to get the insurance.  It will not be easy for those over 70 to find a health insurance company to take you.  It is not going to happen overnight.

https://longstay.tgia.org/

 

6 companies that will take you. 

[sfokevin]

1 minute ago, marcusarelus said:

https://longstay.tgia.org/

 

6 companies that will take you. 

For more than a few pieces of silver... 

[marcusarelus]

4 minutes ago, sfokevin said:

For more than a few pieces of silver... 

70.000 to 100,000+

[SheungWan]

3 hours ago, lemonjelly said:

Only Non O-A visas... Non O visas not included?


Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect

No.

[SheungWan]

4 hours ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

I agree entirely... But instead, they chose for some inexplicable reason to take aim at the O-A group who, by definition, have already have to prove they have significant funds just in order to qualify for the O-A, not to mention, at least being healthy enough to travel internationally back to their home country every year or two to apply for a new O-A.

 

Just to note the actual details:

--with the O-A insurance proposal, O-A holders would have to have coverage for at least 400,000 in inpatient expenses...

--and yet to simply qualify for an O-A, the applicant already has to prove at least 800,000 baht in their bank account or monthly income of at least 65,000 baht or a combination of the two. O-As are typically NOT the destitute ones.

 

If they were actually aiming to address the actual problem of unpaid foreigner hospital bills, by and large, they most likely took aim in entirely the wrong direction in the big scheme of things. Not surprisingly.

O-A does not require any baht bank balance.

[mitebbots]

I want to get an OA this week and plan on spending July - December most likely. I wonder if I can get month-to-month medical?

 

I will be in and out often, 30 days might be a bit tight tho.