The horns of a dilemma.

[Gandtee]

While I am in the fortunate position of being able to meet the Immigration Department's financial requirements, I suspect there are some who are not as fortunate as I. What about those who came to Thailand many years ago, married a Thai woman, bought a house here and sold their home in their homeland. They brought children into the world, raised and educated them. They even gave financial assistance to their Thai relatives when needed. The money they use comes from their homeland to do all these things, swelling Thailand's coffers, but not enough to maintain the baht 800,000 in the bank required by the Thai immigration laws. If they are now denied a visa extension what becomes of his family with noone to support them and deprived of their husband and father?  What becomes of him? He may be too old to work and has nothing in his own country. What is the answer?

[cranki]

They may very well have to leave the country...leaving the children fatherless.

[RJRS1301]

I thought that if married the amount is 400,000BHT??

 

 

[cranki]

11 minutes ago, RJRS1301 said:

I thought that if married the amount is 400,000BHT??

 

 

400K or 800K....I think it doesn't matter for the sake of the thread....some people are flat broke and may very well have to leave... is the gist of it I think.

[from the home of CC]

well since there is no 'dole' here there's not much that can be done except return home, perhaps a good lesson to those whose finances appear to look borderline down the road..

[ezzra]

The OP confuses the issue by calling it a delima, indeed it's a dilemma and a moral miscarriage of the rights to live in a place whereby you were a big part of it, alas, for the Thai, your delima is a non issue for them, adhere to the rules and stay and if you can't, well, see you later pal...

[ballpoint]

Why abandon the family?  Why don't they sell their house here and move the family back to their home country?  Could it be because their own country's immigration requirements are far stricter than Thailand's?

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, ballpoint said:

Why abandon the family?  Why don't they sell their house here and move the family back to their home country?  Could it be because their own country's immigration requirements are far stricter than Thailand's?

The cost of houses, healthcare and daily living in many countries like Australia, would preclude many not to mention the cost of getting the necessary visa and healthcare checks, and not being entitled to universal health care.

 

[FritsSikkink]

Glad we have a thread about this, was afraid nobody would give it any thought here.

[Carlosm]

1 hour ago, ballpoint said:

Why abandon the family?  Why don't they sell their house here and move the family back to their home country?  Could it be because their own country's immigration requirements are far stricter than Thailand's?

If i could sell my house i'd do it in a heart beat. I cannot meat the requirements and would literally do anything for 400k right now. I invested everything i had, mid last year, into my business and employ 4 Thais. I am slowly recovering the money but will not be enough for a couple of years.

The rural housing market is all but dead so before you comment use your dead brain ! I know 2 other westerners who have small business's and cannot come close to the new requirements. They will lose their families and home and are really scared right now, like many others i suspect.

It looks like only 2 options (realistically) are available, leave the Country and get a non 'O' or use and agent and take your chance's of not been caught. Both costly and time consuming but there's no other choice's i can see.

[gjoo888]

With currencies like the Pound and the Aussie Dollar falling to record or near-record lows, the monetary requirements keep getting higher all the time for people from those countries. 

[Kwasaki]

2 hours ago, Gandtee said:

What is the answer?

Pretty obvious to me.

Anyone doing what you describe would keep the 800,000 in bank intact or 400,000 in bank and not touch it.

[dotpoom]

When I came here first in the year 2001...I lodged that money in the bank....and immediately carried on my life as if it never existed...I put it totally out of my mind and lived my life like I never had/owned it.

   Even to this day (at almost 70) when sometimes I think of returning home or moving to Spain and I start to do my financial calculations as to if it's possible or not (I have no place to live if I did return home or family that would want me and my pension wouldn't even pay the rent on a studio apt. )...after I'v finished doing my sums I almost have to pinch myself to remind myself that I also have an extra 800,000 Bt. in the bank.

   Plus...that money is worth a lot more Euro now than it was when I first lodged if.

   I think the Euro was about 54 Bt. back then....today it's only 35 Bt....A nice little windfall if I were to pack up and head off in the morning.

  I have also survived 2 relationships in those 18 years that almost took me for everything.

[wwest5829]

2 hours ago, from the home of CC said:

well since there is no 'dole' here there's not much that can be done except return home, perhaps a good lesson to those whose finances appear to look borderline down the road..

The return home will not be an option for me should things turn sour here. I retired to Thailand in large measure because I cannot afford to live in the US on my retirement income. OK, perhaps a rusting out trailer in Florida or Arizona? I suspect many working middle class from Europe, the Americas, and Australia can be found here for the same reason.

[mike787]

No dilemma, no cognitive dissonance, or existential crisis to speak of; it's "binary" logic...go or stay?  Similar to life and death: we are here then we die, except there is no choice, the maker has decided we ALL must go eventually. 

[Sheryl]

3 hours ago, RJRS1301 said:

I thought that if married the amount is 400,000BHT??

 

 

 

it is. Or 40,000 monthly income from any source.

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, ballpoint said:

Why abandon the family?  Why don't they sell their house here and move the family back to their home country?  Could it be because their own country's immigration requirements are far stricter than Thailand's?

I don't believe so. A spouse visa is possible if difficult, then permission to stay long term and work, and after residing there some time she could get citizenship. Not so easy for a foreigner in Thailand.. you have to live year to year.

[Fairynuff]

45 minutes ago, Kwasaki said:

Pretty obvious to me.

Anyone doing what you describe would keep the 800,000 in bank intact or 400,000 in bank and not touch it.

You’re assuming everyone has that amount which shows you’ve missed the point of the OP

[CharlieH]

I am sorry but I really dont get this attitude of "I have to leave" I cannot stay. My family will be broken etc.

 

Just because you can no longer obtain a certain visa doesnt mean ANY of the above.

There is always an option, agreed it may not be as convenient or as easy as it has in previous years, but there is an alternative in most cases.

Even if it means border runs at 90 day intervals (which requires no capital nor insurance)

 

(To clarify I am mostly talking about married people here).

 

There is no way I would let a visa change "break up" anything. There is always another option.

[Beggar]

If you look at the retirement extension it is granted only for one year. There is no guarantee that regulations might not change in the future. Perhaps we are only allowed to stay 180 days a year here - a regulation many countries have.

 

The people moving here have to understand and accept the rules and facts. In the end they create their problems and not the rules and facts are the real reason. 

[watcharacters]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

the maker has decided we ALL must go eventually. 

 

 

What maker?

 

 

[1FinickyOne]

4 hours ago, Gandtee said:

swelling Thailand's coffers, but not enough to maintain the baht 800,000

Well, if you are swelling coffers, I would think you might have enough to meet visa requirements... 

 

But, the question that comes to mind is, how were they meeting requirements before? I am on a retirement ext too and for me the requirements are fairly close to what they were before... just need to leave the money in the bank an extra few months... 

[The Deerhunter]

Personally I think things will get tougher and tougher here for expats here espevislly a the exchanget rateds go south.   I for one am not waiting for them to make my life difficult.  My Thai wife can hardly wait to get back to our other country and fortunately I have things to go back to.  Unlike many I am sorry to say.

Sorry for all the ones in this situation but I am outa here by the end of June.  Very difficult dilemma for many.  I know several in that situation.   Awful decisions to make. And people still ask why some of our number jump off balconies

 

[malibukid]

1 hour ago, mike787 said:

No dilemma, no cognitive dissonance, or existential crisis to speak of; it's "binary" logic...go or stay?  Similar to life and death: we are here then we die, except there is no choice, the maker has decided we ALL must go eventually. 

our lives where determine billions of years ago.  relax and float downstream.  don't fight the current

Edited June 1, 2019 by malibukid

[brain150]

The amount of empathy from some posters in here is unbelievable !!!

[equally abyssal to Thai Immigration or any other Government institution on the planet]

 

It's a disgrace to anything the human race was ever intended to be !

The brainwashing sits so deep that people actually believe that Governments

[any Government] can and should treat human beings like animals ... it's sad but true.

 

The human farming on the planet is way out of control !!!

[abizeus]

I don't have many years behind me in Thailand like many here.

Been here since 2001 and there criteria for new visa's next year is absolutely beyond me.

They are expecting us to show 65,000bht coming from pension from your Country origin!!!

I actually do not know anyone receiving that much pension, in fact, I hardly netted that when working in UK.

Anyhow, hope all the farangs leave, like myself and leave's Thailand completely on its arse.

Good riddance to Thailand and I know for sure I won't even return for a short holiday in future.

Vietnam, Da Nang here I come - Marry a Vietnamese if you like and get 5 year visa.

They do actually want us there.

All the best Thailand - please sink.

[Gandtee]

9 minutes ago, brain150 said:

The amount of empathy from some posters in here is unbelievable !!!

[equally abyssal to Thai Immigration or any other Government institution on the planet]

 

It's a disgrace to anything the human race was ever intended to be !

The brainwashing sits so deep that people actually believe that Governments

[any Government] can and should treat human beings like animals ... it's sad but true.

 

The human farming on the planet is way out of control !!!

Animal Farm? Our dear leaders suggested reading. Oh, the irony.

[TerryLH]

4 hours ago, cranki said:

400K or 800K....I think it doesn't matter for the sake of the thread....some people are flat broke and may very well have to leave... is the gist of it I think.

Actually, it does matter.  If the person has been married and lived here for years, getting extensions for marriage, there has not been a change in requirements.

[Gandtee]

10 minutes ago, TerryLH said:

Actually, it does matter.  If the person has been married and lived here for years, getting extensions for marriage, there has not been a change in requirements.

What year did the financial requirement for foreign retirees come into force and what were they? Anyone?

[RJRS1301]

3 minutes ago, Gandtee said:

What year did the financial requirement for foreign retirees come into force and what were they? Anyone?

The new orders, 2019