UK not paying Brexit bill would be debt default, French source says

[Blue Muton]

11 hours ago, malagateddy said:

A new hardline negociating Brexit team would easily slash the 39 big ones down to a far more reasonable realistic price.
Remember..nothing has been signed to my knowledge..it's only a provisional costing right now as far as I'm aware.

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

On what basis have you come to the conclusion that the agreed sum is unreasonable and/or unrealistic? 

 

If you have the information to back up your claim, why didn't you share it with HM's Treasury, they could have used it to the UK's advantage in the negotiations?

 

Or perhaps you're just blustering.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Time for you to read. Japan is the only deal completed and that was sped up after Brexit to try and pinch the automakers.

The rest are....ongoing...some for decades!

Any more strong points?

And YOU think, Boris the Liar, with 65 mln consumers behind him, can make better deals as the EU with 525 mln consumers behind ? 

As THAT was, is and stays the reason why I mentioned all these links.

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I don't have a problem with paying the debt whatever the cost provided there is an international firm of accountants (perhaps Swiss) to go through the amount line by line to ensure thaty we are paying the correct amount and the bill is itemised.

 

Also that an international firm of auditors (Swiss again?) audit the EU accounts.

Let’s give them a test run on where Aaron Banks got the £8million he donated to Brexit Leave campaign.

[puipuitom]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Same old rubbish poster. UK net contribution is wrong. 

of course... all what si different as in the minds of a Brexiteer is fake news. Even the library of the House of Commons… all fake news.. 

[aright]

2 minutes ago, david555 said:

Please can somebody tell the U.K. it is a push door , not pulling ….they are very free to go out 

 

Things could well be different with Mrs May gone. We could well see a door before B Day where Boris is shoulder pushing  from one side and Nigel is pulling the door from the other side. Now that would make a difference.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, welovesundaysatspace said:

Brilliant. You should apply those ingenious tactics to your personal life as well: “No, I will not pay the remaining six months of my gym contract. I want to leave now and honoring contracts hurts my sovereignty. I might pay if you give me free access to your facilities for another three years though, and, of course, you would have to prove that you’re being audited by a Swiss audit firm. Not sure what that has to do with my gym contract, but my Führer told me I should say it.”

 

Why would anybody want to be a member of gym when the fitness instructor is always drunk, I certainly don't want shown how to do burpees by an intoxicated trainer. I would rather buy a home gym and get instructions from YouTube.

[david555]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

Things could well be different with Mrs May gone. We could well see a door before B Day where Boris is shoulder pushing  from one side and Nigel is pulling the door from the other side. Now that would make a difference.

Oh ….about Nigel …..a nice quote I found in a news page 

 

"despite coming tantalisingly close to victory in Peterborough, Mr Farage's silence was significant. He will be concerned that if his new party couldn't win here, where 61% of voters voted Leave in 2016, where can they win? "

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by david555

[puipuitom]

50 minutes ago, david555 said:

Don't worry we will help you out E.U. by joining the Macron veto ...as you can not by yourself Even with your overwhelming referendum majority …. 

You forget the British voting system:

First, you divide the country over 651 constituencies as.. "each baron want to be heard at the crown.."

Then, in each "village" ONLY the one with the most votes gets everything, all others nothing..  Imagine 5 parties, but the biggest 20,1% of the votes.. 

Then.. 326 of the seats and.. with just 10% of the voters, you have the full government. ( And the members of the House of Lords are appointed, very "democrately")

 

In a normal democracy the majority fore sure takes the wishes of the minority in their evaluation.

[vogie]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

You forget the British voting system:

First, you divide the country over 651 constituencies as.. "each baron want to be heard at the crown.."

Then, in each "village" ONLY the one with the most votes gets everything, all others nothing..  Imagine 5 parties, but the biggest 20,1% of the votes.. 

Then.. 326 of the seats and.. with just 10% of the voters, you have the full government. ( And the members of the House of Lords are appointed, very "democrately")

 

In a normal democracy the majority fore sure takes the wishes of the minority in their evaluation.

You complain about the Brexit bus being misleading, but it is ok to put two bowls of rice on here purporting to be different, yet infact they are exactly the same photo, who is kidding who here?

[the guest]

I think this is going look very ugly for the UK !

[puipuitom]

breakdown British divorce bill

·         Brexit divorce bill - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_divorce_bill

The Brexit financial settlement ('divorce bill') is a sum of money due to the European Union (EU) from the United Kingdom (UK) ...

·         The EU "divorce bill" - Full Fact

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

The latest estimate for the size of the UK's 'divorce bill' with the EU is £39 billion ( €42 billion). This is based on calculations the UK and EU have agreed, ...

·         Brexit: the financial settlement - Commons Library briefing - UK ...

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039

The financial settlement - often labeled the 'exit bill' or 'divorce bill' - sets out how the UK and EU will settle their outstanding financial commitments to each other ...

·         Brexit divorce bill explained: Why the UK needs to pay the EU to ...

https://qz.com/1134703/brexit-divorce-bill-explained-why-the-uk-needs-to-pay-the-eu-to-leave/

21 Nov 2017 ... The UK is reportedly thinking of doubling its offer to €40 billion ($47 billion). ... Everything you need to know about the Brexit “divorce bill”.

·         The EU divorce bill | The Institute for Government

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/eu-divorce-bill

28 Mar 2018 ... Currently the UK makes annual contributions to the EU budget. ... The divorce bill is the amount we have agreed to pay in settlement of our ...

·         Brexit divorce bill: how much is it and what is it for? | Politics | The ...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/29/brexit-divorce-bill-how-much-is-it-and-what-is-it-for

29 Nov 2017 ... The UK has conceded to EU demands to honour its financial liabilities, but who decides what they are and when does the UK have to pay up?

·         The Brexit divorce bill explained

http://theconversation.com/the-brexit-divorce-bill-explained-74466

29 Mar 2017 ... Will the UK have to pay a vast sum of money to the EU in order to leave it – or will it get cash back?

·         UK legally bound to pay £39bn Brexit 'divorce bill' before EU trade ...

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-divorce-bill-uk-pay-eu-trade-deal-talks-david-davis-suella-braverman-a8364841.html

23 May 2018 ... Britain will be legally bound to pay its £39bn Brexit divorce bill before the details of a future EU trade deal are agreed, a minister has admitted.

·         Brexit news: Scrap EU divorce bill and use the money to boost UK ...

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/973253/brexit-news-latest-uk-economy-city-of-london-eu-divorce-bill

12 Jun 2018 ... CANCELLING Britain's £40billion EU divorce fee could boost the economy ... if the talks break down and the UK leaves the EU without a deal.

·         FactCheck: can we avoid paying the £39 billion Brexit divorce bill ...

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-can-we-avoid-paying-the-39-billion-brexit-divorce-bill

9 Jan 2019 ... The former Brexit secretary, David Davis, has suggested this week that the UKmight not have to pay a “divorce” settlement to Brussels if we ...

 

[puipuitom]

3 minutes ago, vogie said:

You complain about the Brexit bus being misleading, but it is ok to put two bowls of rice on here purporting to be different, yet infact they are exactly the same photo, who is kidding who here?

A too big step for a British to understand… Who can see the difference in reality between 51,88 % and 48,11 % spread over two rice bowls ? 

[vogie]

1 minute ago, puipuitom said:

A too big step for a British to understand… Who can see the difference in reality between 51,88 % and 48,11 % spread over two rice bowls ? 

Oh I understand it alright, there isn't any difference, they are the same photo.

[billd766]

38 minutes ago, billd766 said:

I don't have a problem with paying the debt whatever the cost provided there is an international firm of accountants (perhaps Swiss) to go through the amount line by line to ensure thaty we are paying the correct amount and the bill is itemised.

 

Also that an international firm of auditors (Swiss again?) audit the EU accounts.

What is confusing you Chomper?

 

Is it too difficult for you to understand that the UK would like an itemised bill and truthfully audited accounts?

39 minutes ago, Bullie said:

Sorry wrong post.

 

[aright]

14 minutes ago, david555 said:

Oh ….about Nigel …..a nice quote I found in a news page 

 

"despite coming tantalisingly close to victory in Peterborough, Mr Farage's silence was significant. He will be concerned that if his new party couldn't win here, where 61% of voters voted Leave in 2016, where can they win? "

 

That looks more like a newspaper opinion than a Nigel quote. Link please?

 

I found this   "Whichever way you cut it, we’ve come from nowhere ... we’re pretty buoyed by this."

“We came into Peterborough with zero data, up against the Labour party who have been working this seat mercilessly for months because they knew their former MP was going to be removed.

“Whichever way you cut it, we’ve come from nowhere, produced a massive result, we haven’t quite got over the line, but we’re pretty buoyed by this.”

 

Nigel Farage Hails 'Massive' Peterborough By-Election Result Despite Brexit Party Defeat

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-hails-massive-result-despite-brexit-party-defeat-in-peterborough-by-election_uk_5cfa075fe4b06af8b5063dcc?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JKUzlNMlRQNWNYUUlBRFJoTEJReC47X3lsdT1YM29ETVRCeU1XazJPV050QkdOdmJHOERhWEl5QkhCdmN3TXlCSFowYVdRREJITmxZd056Y2ctLS9SVj0yL1JFPTE1NjAxOTgzMjYvUk89MTAvUlU9aHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZ3d3cuaHVmZmluZ3RvbnBvc3QuY28udWslMmZlbnRyeSUyZm5pZ2VsLWZhcmFnZS1oYWlscy1tYXNzaXZlLXJlc3VsdC1kZXNwaXRlLWJyZXhpdC1wYXJ0eS1kZWZlYXQtaW4tcGV0ZXJib3JvdWdoLWJ5LWVsZWN0aW9uX3VrXzVjZmEwNzVmZTRiMDZhZjhiNTA2M2RjYy9SSz0yL1JTPU9iOXhJOHV3Z0h4MkpfZTdndVFMcFNxMVh2TS0&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKK2jxPGD0_qPFY28sTQTFoEcOh2KQvE_Yf3ePXsyLe2tWeUT0LmyWipIC5hDNuECxXuzig9rv51d6qwEydGDgCUN-xV0ghgM_ZkUxPX-gSbeCbegVJdLoRWnZcjcuBRS94oYNQ9TBRBpl2CklPdfh8NtBfBtaJ0G43OPREwtHcZ

 

[billd766]

42 minutes ago, Bullie said:

Don't be silly. European ports would be closed to the UK, stiff tariffs would be imposed, millions of Britons living in Europe would be forced to go back to the UK. You can't have your cake, and eat it.

And there would only be humble cake left, anyway.

Naturally you have the links and reports to prove this?

 

I think that you are a Remainer who believes that if you say something then it must be true.

 

I am sure that you have all the relevant information to hand so just post it here.

[david555]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

What is confusing you Chomper?

 

Is it too difficult for you to understand that the UK would like an itemised bill and truthfully audited accounts?

 

I am sure they will get that …., if not done already …. but maybe not published as so many things in your H.O.C. ….remember how far Cox was pushed before he cleared it up ? 

And how P.M. may danced around it when asked and admitted the U.K. pay his debt , along with noticed the Chancellor same way, and that's the man for the U.K. pocket money  ...

[david555]

4 minutes ago, aright said:

That looks more like a newspaper opinion than a Nigel quote. Link please?

 

I found this   "Whichever way you cut it, we’ve come from nowhere ... we’re pretty buoyed by this."

“We came into Peterborough with zero data, up against the Labour party who have been working this seat mercilessly for months because they knew their former MP was going to be removed.

“Whichever way you cut it, we’ve come from nowhere, produced a massive result, we haven’t quite got over the line, but we’re pretty buoyed by this.”

 

Nigel Farage Hails 'Massive' Peterborough By-Election Result Despite Brexit Party Defeat

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-hails-massive-result-despite-brexit-party-defeat-in-peterborough-by-election_uk_5cfa075fe4b06af8b5063dcc?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JKUzlNMlRQNWNYUUlBRFJoTEJReC47X3lsdT1YM29ETVRCeU1XazJPV050QkdOdmJHOERhWEl5QkhCdmN3TXlCSFowYVdRREJITmxZd056Y2ctLS9SVj0yL1JFPTE1NjAxOTgzMjYvUk89MTAvUlU9aHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZ3d3cuaHVmZmluZ3RvbnBvc3QuY28udWslMmZlbnRyeSUyZm5pZ2VsLWZhcmFnZS1oYWlscy1tYXNzaXZlLXJlc3VsdC1kZXNwaXRlLWJyZXhpdC1wYXJ0eS1kZWZlYXQtaW4tcGV0ZXJib3JvdWdoLWJ5LWVsZWN0aW9uX3VrXzVjZmEwNzVmZTRiMDZhZjhiNTA2M2RjYy9SSz0yL1JTPU9iOXhJOHV3Z0h4MkpfZTdndVFMcFNxMVh2TS0&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKK2jxPGD0_qPFY28sTQTFoEcOh2KQvE_Yf3ePXsyLe2tWeUT0LmyWipIC5hDNuECxXuzig9rv51d6qwEydGDgCUN-xV0ghgM_ZkUxPX-gSbeCbegVJdLoRWnZcjcuBRS94oYNQ9TBRBpl2CklPdfh8NtBfBtaJ0G43OPREwtHcZ

 

I did not say it was Nigel 's quote , a quote from a newspaper , fact is he lost in a Brexiteers fortress …. is that not enough for him to worry about …..said from the side line ….. O.K. now ?

[Thongkorn]

A bit like not paying into NATO for 28 years then.

[billd766]

14 minutes ago, puipuitom said:

breakdown British divorce bill

·         Brexit divorce bill - Wikipedia

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brexit_divorce_bill

 

The Brexit financial settlement ('divorce bill') is a sum of money due to the European Union (EU) from the United Kingdom (UK) ...

 

·         The EU "divorce bill" - Full Fact

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

 

The latest estimate for the size of the UK's 'divorce bill' with the EU is £39 billion ( €42 billion). This is based on calculations the UK and EU have agreed, ...

 

·         Brexit: the financial settlement - Commons Library briefing - UK ...

 

https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-8039

 

The financial settlement - often labeled the 'exit bill' or 'divorce bill' - sets out how the UK and EU will settle their outstanding financial commitments to each other ...

 

·         Brexit divorce bill explained: Why the UK needs to pay the EU to ...

 

https://qz.com/1134703/brexit-divorce-bill-explained-why-the-uk-needs-to-pay-the-eu-to-leave/

 

21 Nov 2017 ... The UK is reportedly thinking of doubling its offer to €40 billion ($47 billion). ... Everything you need to know about the Brexit “divorce bill”.

 

·         The EU divorce bill | The Institute for Government

 

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/explainers/eu-divorce-bill

 

28 Mar 2018 ... Currently the UK makes annual contributions to the EU budget. ... The divorce bill is the amount we have agreed to pay in settlement of our ...

 

·         Brexit divorce bill: how much is it and what is it for? | Politics | The ...

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/nov/29/brexit-divorce-bill-how-much-is-it-and-what-is-it-for

 

29 Nov 2017 ... The UK has conceded to EU demands to honour its financial liabilities, but who decides what they are and when does the UK have to pay up?

 

·         The Brexit divorce bill explained

 

http://theconversation.com/the-brexit-divorce-bill-explained-74466

 

29 Mar 2017 ... Will the UK have to pay a vast sum of money to the EU in order to leave it – or will it get cash back?

 

·         UK legally bound to pay £39bn Brexit 'divorce bill' before EU trade ...

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-divorce-bill-uk-pay-eu-trade-deal-talks-david-davis-suella-braverman-a8364841.html

 

23 May 2018 ... Britain will be legally bound to pay its £39bn Brexit divorce bill before the details of a future EU trade deal are agreed, a minister has admitted.

 

·         Brexit news: Scrap EU divorce bill and use the money to boost UK ...

 

https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/973253/brexit-news-latest-uk-economy-city-of-london-eu-divorce-bill

 

12 Jun 2018 ... CANCELLING Britain's £40billion EU divorce fee could boost the economy ... if the talks break down and the UK leaves the EU without a deal.

 

·         FactCheck: can we avoid paying the £39 billion Brexit divorce bill ...

 

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-can-we-avoid-paying-the-39-billion-brexit-divorce-bill

 

9 Jan 2019 ... The former Brexit secretary, David Davis, has suggested this week that the UKmight not have to pay a “divorce” settlement to Brussels if we ...

 

 

 

quote from your post.

 

The EU "divorce bill" - Full Fact

 

https://fullfact.org/europe/eu-divorce-bill/

 

The latest estimate for the size of the UK's 'divorce bill' with the EU is £39 billion ( €42 billion). This is based on calculations the UK and EU have agreed, .

 

It seems that the figure of £39 billion ( €42 billion) is only an estimate and not yet the correct figure. It could be more or less.

 

So get in some neutral accountants and auditors (the Swiss are good at accounting) to go through the estimate line by line and come up with the correct figure.

[welovesundaysatspace]

34 minutes ago, vogie said:

Why would anybody want to be a member of gym when the fitness instructor is always drunk, I certainly don't want shown how to do burpees by an intoxicated trainer. I would rather buy a home gym and get instructions from YouTube.

Ask that your country who signed up for it. 

[aright]

4 minutes ago, david555 said:

I did not say it was Nigel 's quote , a quote from a newspaper , fact is he lost in a Brexiteers fortress …. is that not enough for him to worry about …..said from the side line ….. O.K. now ?

No I asked for a link...……..please?

[Chomper Higgot]

49 minutes ago, aright said:

Germany now 'biggest breaker of EU rules', according to official figures

 

Angela Merkel's government worst offender in Europe

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/angela-merkel-germany-breaks-more-eu-rules-worst-bottom-class-a8198271.html

 

Perhaps you could help us find a solution to the problems regarding rule breakers in the EU. An honourable solution of course since you are so keen on it.

Kind of lends the lie to the claim the UK is ‘controlled and shackled’ by the EU.

 

So thanks for your contribution.

[welovesundaysatspace]

 

6 minutes ago, billd766 said:

So get in some neutral accountants and auditors (the Swiss are good at accounting) to go through the estimate line by line and come up with the correct figure.

That’s what will happen if you don’t pay. It will go to the courts and they will look at it very thoroughly, probably over many years. It would be a classic Brexiteer move; losing big bucks each and every year for the prospect of a small symbolic victory in far future. Geniuses. 

[david555]

12 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Naturally you have the links and reports to prove this?

 

I think that you are a Remainer who believes that if you say something then it must be true.

 

I am sure that you have all the relevant information to hand so just post it here.

Of course there are no links to that as It would look aggressive  and defiant ,.... but be sure in case of no payment , all of this and more could become so ….., remember South Africa boycott ….

[Chomper Higgot]

16 minutes ago, aright said:

That looks more like a newspaper opinion than a Nigel quote. Link please?

 

I found this   "Whichever way you cut it, we’ve come from nowhere ... we’re pretty buoyed by this."

“We came into Peterborough with zero data, up against the Labour party who have been working this seat mercilessly for months because they knew their former MP was going to be removed.

“Whichever way you cut it, we’ve come from nowhere, produced a massive result, we haven’t quite got over the line, but we’re pretty buoyed by this.”

 

Nigel Farage Hails 'Massive' Peterborough By-Election Result Despite Brexit Party Defeat

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/nigel-farage-hails-massive-result-despite-brexit-party-defeat-in-peterborough-by-election_uk_5cfa075fe4b06af8b5063dcc?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JKUzlNMlRQNWNYUUlBRFJoTEJReC47X3lsdT1YM29ETVRCeU1XazJPV050QkdOdmJHOERhWEl5QkhCdmN3TXlCSFowYVdRREJITmxZd056Y2ctLS9SVj0yL1JFPTE1NjAxOTgzMjYvUk89MTAvUlU9aHR0cHMlM2ElMmYlMmZ3d3cuaHVmZmluZ3RvbnBvc3QuY28udWslMmZlbnRyeSUyZm5pZ2VsLWZhcmFnZS1oYWlscy1tYXNzaXZlLXJlc3VsdC1kZXNwaXRlLWJyZXhpdC1wYXJ0eS1kZWZlYXQtaW4tcGV0ZXJib3JvdWdoLWJ5LWVsZWN0aW9uX3VrXzVjZmEwNzVmZTRiMDZhZjhiNTA2M2RjYy9SSz0yL1JTPU9iOXhJOHV3Z0h4MkpfZTdndVFMcFNxMVh2TS0&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAKK2jxPGD0_qPFY28sTQTFoEcOh2KQvE_Yf3ePXsyLe2tWeUT0LmyWipIC5hDNuECxXuzig9rv51d6qwEydGDgCUN-xV0ghgM_ZkUxPX-gSbeCbegVJdLoRWnZcjcuBRS94oYNQ9TBRBpl2CklPdfh8NtBfBtaJ0G43OPREwtHcZ

 

Which is why Farage hid and slipped out the backdoor when The Brexit Party failed to win.

[david555]

6 minutes ago, aright said:

No I asked for a link...……..please?

Was a quote from reporter from The guardian , you think I keep all from where I take , this I kept ...

if I find it again I sure will deliver it , but can not search now , to much fun here for the moment 

 

Edited June 10, 2019 by david555

[aright]

1 minute ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Kind of lends the lie to the claim the UK is ‘controlled and shackled’ by the EU.

 

So thanks for your contribution.

Au contraire......I think it adds to it.

To give examples.... Since 2007 Germany  has been in breach of European fiscal rules because it,s trade surplus is one of the largest in the world. It's what happens when you set up a self serving currency. They also have forged a sweetheart deal with Russia on gas......as a member state under EU rules they  are not allowed to negotiate separately.

In short Germany is the EU and it does what it wants......what's the point in belonging to a rules based organisation if you are not prepared to obey the rules. They are also the biggest cry babies when other member states  disobey the rules 

Thanks for allowing me to point that out.

 

 

[david555]

19 minutes ago, aright said:

No I asked for a link...……..please?

A whole page links with same headline, and it was 1 of them, useless to look for them for somebody change my words , as I never said NIGEL said that , I said a quote of a news paper , here you have plenty same topic …. just Google has them all ….. you must be desperate to pull so hard for something I copy pasted out an newspaper article 

Plenty here 

https://www.google.be/search?hl=nl&source=hp&ei=W1X-XLW-OvGzmgfe5pDQDQ&q=But+despite+coming+tantalisingly+close+to+victory+in+Peterborough%2C+Mr+Farage's+silence+was+significant.+He+will+be+concerned+that+if+his+new+party+couldn't+win+here%2C+where+61%+of+voters+voted+Leave+in+2016%2C+where+can+they+win%3F&oq=But+despite+coming+tantalisingly+close+to+victory+in+Peterborough%2C+Mr+Farage's+silence+was+significant.+He+will+be+concerned+that+if+his+new+party+couldn't+win+here%2C+where+61%+of+voters+voted+Leave+in+2016%2C+where+can+they+win%3F&gs_l=psy-ab.12...4644.4644..6712...0.0..0.0.0.......1....2j1..gws-wiz.....0.

[puipuitom]

43 minutes ago, vogie said:

Oh I understand it alright, there isn't any difference, they are the same photo.

so… does that change the argumentation ? ? The photo is only as a gimmick.