yeah, CM's wilted, and i'm wilting

[orang37]

Nikkei Asian Review JUNE 23, 2019 12:00 JST

 

Thailand's famed 'Rose of the North' is wilting

Ancient Chiang Mai is suffering from over-development and pollution

DENIS D. GRAY, Contributing

 

clickee

 

it was really good, when it was good !

 

sigh, ~o:37;

[Bassosa]

Thanks for posting.

 

It's what we all knew but guess the secret is out.

[NCC1701A]

Nine years ago I remember asking a friend at work what was the name of that city in Thailand you were talking about?

 

Oh well...

[elektrified]

Good article. I read it this morning. Sad but true.

[Throatwobbler]

Quote "burgeoning metropolitan area of 12 million people". Not sure if that is quite accurate.

 

[orchis]

"Every year, despite dire warnings and penalties, farmers across northern Thailand set post-harvest crops alight while villagers ignite mountainsides to harvest mushrooms, ants' eggs and other forest products for commercial sale."

 

there are quite a few more reasons for all the burning going on.

[Bruce Aussie Chiang Mai]

Thailand nothing will change. I love Chiang Mai basxxxds won't smoke me out. 20 kms out town nice. When smoke dad head inside. Turn on aircon and air purifier in bedroom relax watch Netflix.  Worst come worst put your head under blankets with the missus. ????❤????????

[amykat]

3 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

Quote "burgeoning metropolitan area of 12 million people". Not sure if that is quite accurate.

 

Seems like it when you try to drive anywhere these days ....quite a drastic difference over the years ....huge, like nothing I have ever seen in such short amount of time.

[mania]

Life is too short & precious & the world has many many great spots.

 

We loved our CM life in the years we lived there but by 2016 the writing on the wall was clear enough for us to sell everything & leave.

No regrets as we know the CM we loved never returned because we visited a few times since then & nodded in agreement that we made the right choice.

Edited June 27, 2019 by mania

[jko]

Let's hope that Dennis Gray’s daunting message not only reaches the ears those in power, but also those of prospective leisure travellers, investors, medical tourists, incentive and exhibition planners and retirees who, as a result, remove Chiang Mai from their planning.

That may sound defeatist, but it is now clear that only a steady, slow collapse of the economy is likely to bring the authorities to their senses. Multiple business failures, empty hotels and an exodus of students from our international schools may be the bitterest, but the only medicine.

The plain truth is that until the powers - finally - learn this hard lesson, nothing is going to happen. We are now only six or seven months away from the Deadly Burning, and since we have heard nothing from government, we can reasonably assume it will happen again.

Meanwhile, many (or most) of us are looking at ways to relocate completely, or at least abandon the city (and Lanna in general) from Feb-Jun 2020. I am certainly in this category. Climate change may make things worse as temperatures rise, and the quality of life steadily declines.

The future does not look rosy for the Rose.

[orang37]

13 hours ago, Throatwobbler said:

burgeoning metropolitan area of 12 million people". Not sure if that is quite accurate.

 

Very inaccurate; the population of the Province is under 2 million.

 

https://www.citypopulation.de/php/thailand-prov-admin.php?adm2id=50

[rumak]

From the closing few lines of the article :  " How to change attitudes? It comes back to awareness and education."        

That is always a very convenient way to end an article or broadcast or you name it.

If honesty was ever in fashion the next line would be,  "GOOD LUCK WITH THAT ! "

 

now,  where is the next place we can "develop" ?   (sensibly, of course    lmao )

 

 

[Trujillo]

"Some people and pets coughed blood, and hundreds were treated at hospitals for respiratory diseases."

 

I did not hear or read of a single case of pet and humans coughing blood. I would take this as highly suspect; perhaps outright fabrication. 

 

"Chiang Mai already records the country's highest incidence of lung cancer."

 

Lampang is the highest lung cancer rate in the nation, not Chiang Mai. 

 

"With some 70% of municipal income derived from tourism,..."

 

Sounds high to me. In 2016, Chiang Mai only had 7% of total foreign tourists visiting Thailand, according to a study by the SCB. 

 

"The Old City, the seat of bygone kings, is packed with restaurants, boutique hotels, souvenir shops and tattoo parlors."

 

Packed with tattoo parlors? Uh, okay....

 

"Official statistics are not yet available, but by one estimate -- from guesthouse owner Annette Brady -- arrivals plunged by 30% for the Thai New Year festival, the high point of Chiang Mai's annual tourism calendar."

 

Uh...this isn't what you'd call good journalism. I can't be bothered to do any research so I will ask the owner of the guesthouse I'm staying in for the "facts." 

 

"Businesses complained about lack of customers and even such sites as Thapae Gate along the Old City wall, particularly popular with Chinese tourists, were nearly empty on some days."

 

Sounds hyperbolic to me. 

 

As a former editor, I'd give this story just less credit than some in-flight magazine fare. Other than having a bad burning season, this is pretty much standard -- urbanization comes at a cost. It's always been this way and will continue as such. 

 And by the way, what exactly has been lost in the past 10 years for example? The temples are still here and maintained (albeit non-Thais have to pay for what ought to be free); the waterfalls and natural areas are basically the same; good northern Thai food can be still obtained. The beef about encroachment on Doi Sutep park land (which was resolved, as I understand it with reclamation of the area that was alleged to have been cleared that was inside the park boundary), is a red herring -- I couldn't find that place if I tried to. The article is disingenuous in that it makes it sound like the temple grounds itself was violated by construction. 

What exactly have we lost? It seems to me the problem is that we've not as much open space as before, perhaps, but then you'd have to look back farther than 10 years to really see that. 

 

 

[chingmai331]

I can tell you, from personal observation, that in the last 5 years many trees and open lots in CM city, esp outside the moat, have been lost to hotels and condos. No trees means no birds, no green areas but more cars, motos, air pollution,  more plastic litter etc.

Not denying that this seems the way of the world. The owners of the new CM hotels are hoping and praying that the chinese tourists continue to arrive in CM without respite for decades to come.

[rumak]

thirty years ago i would ride my bicycle leisurely up Huay Keow to the strawberry farms on canal road.

twenty years ago going around on a motorcycle stlll a breeze..... and no police checks anywhere

ten years ago the areas outside city center (mae rim, hang dong, sankampaeng, doi saket) really started to take off and the moobahn craze was in full motion. And the population explosion as well.

I now live 70 km from the city  .   Nothing has changed very much.   But no escaping the pollution even here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 28, 2019 by rumak

[Trujillo]

"...that in the last 5 years many trees and open lots in CM city, esp outside the moat, have been lost to hotels and condos."

 

1) This is inevitable human expansion; it can't be halted. 

2) I don't think a few fewer vacant lots or missing trees have the slightest impact on the cultural make-up of the city as a whole. The city cut a stand of old growth rain trees down along the road near my house because (I'm not making this up) they were "too tall" under the power lines, which were half again as high as the trees. Now those power lines are being replaced with MASSIVE towers 2.5 times as high. 

Did the loss of the trees make Chiang Mai a less desirable place to live? No. A needless shame? Yes. 

[DeaconJohn]

1 hour ago, rumak said:

thirty years ago i would ride my bicycle leisurely up Huay Keow to the strawberry farms on canal road.

twenty years ago going around on a motorcycle stlll a breeze..... and no police checks anywhere

ten years ago the areas outside city center (mae rim, hang dong, sankampaeng, doi saket) really started to take off and the moobahn craze was in full motion. And the population explosion as well.

I now live 70 km from the city  .   Nothing has changed very much.   But no escaping the pollution even here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Good post from someone who seems to have a sense of perspective.

Yes, I remember the strawberry fields on the canal road thirty years ago. Ten years before that the view of Chiang Mai from the scenic outlooks on Doi Suthep was a beautiful sight. It was a sea of green - a real garden city - with the chedis and orange tiled roofs of the wats being the prominent features. The highest building was the Poy Luang Hotel outside town.

Now you could just as well be looking at some concrete jungle in California.

More has been lost than has been gained over the years. 

[lipflipper]

You really can't call it progress if all you doing is creating more problems. Of course this being Thailand and Chiang Mai in this particular case it's not going to change. More Condos, more cars, more burning, more people, more pollution has pretty much sealed the doom of Chiang Mai for many who wish to continue living here or are considering retiring here. There is no bringing back the good old days I'm afraid.

Sent from my CMR-AL19 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[rumak]

to be fair,  any small city that was really nice 30 years ago has gone through the same "progress".

Austin,Tx..... San Diego.... SF........ Seattle...... and I'm sure countless others that I am not as familiar with.  They may not have air pollution, but traffic, mass growth/loss of charm are inevitable.  

Sigh.   With the powers that be constantly promoting more population, more consumerism, more technology,  well...it is what it is.

Currently I am looking for the crappiest place on the planet as maybe then I won't be disappointed when progress arrives .  ( tongue in cheek )

Edited June 28, 2019 by rumak

[Small Joke]

Agree with Trujillo and Rumak.

All that needs fixing is the burning (an ASEAN issue) and e-tolls on the moat and inner city sois.

 

The ring roads system and highway south is being continually upgraded, and nearly finished, that's great. Safer u turns have been built and others closed. Speed cameras are coming... FANTASTIC!

There's a real bus service that has begun. Grab car and bike are killing the old transport mafia slowly.

Meechok market area has two great supermarkets and everything in between, including upmarket and very lively wine bar.

Plus some racey 'nong bars' that are very reasonable and great fun.

All we need is a Dukes outlet, and I'll die happy. 

Things change, it's life.

I can remember when Sydney was affordable, and easy to get around, the Pacific Highway on the North Shore there is a nightmare, with no solution. And the nightlife sucks as ever, but it was never Sydney's strongest draw. I'll take CM thanks.

[Antonymous]

6 hours ago, rumak said:

thirty years ago i would ride my bicycle leisurely up Huay Keow to the strawberry farms on canal road.

twenty years ago going around on a motorcycle stlll a breeze..... and no police checks anywhere

ten years ago the areas outside city center (mae rim, hang dong, sankampaeng, doi saket) really started to take off and the moobahn craze was in full motion. And the population explosion as well.

I now live 70 km from the city  .   Nothing has changed very much.   But no escaping the pollution even here.

 

Thirty years ago although Chiang Mai City had some appeal, what I really fell in love with was the surrounding beautiful countryside and the pretty villages, which is where my work took me much of the time.

 

I lived close to the City for many years, but have moved house six times, each time ‘further out’ to escape creeping construction that sprang up all around and trying to find more peace and seclusion. Like you Rumak, I have now settled a good hour’s drive outside Chiang Mai in what I regard to be a blissful country location that has everything I ever loved about Chiang Mai on my doorstep, including being surrounded by happy and resourceful Thai people. To me this is and always has been the ‘real’ Thailand. I rarely go into the City any longer and don’t miss it at all.

 

Chiang Mai as a province and not just the City, still has so much to offer – a lot more than 30 years ago in fact - if you know where to settle.

[malibukid]

On 6/26/2019 at 10:22 PM, orchis said:

"Every year, despite dire warnings and penalties, farmers across northern Thailand set post-harvest crops alight while villagers ignite mountainsides to harvest mushrooms, ants' eggs and other forest products for commercial sale."

 

there are quite a few more reasons for all the burning going on.

Thai mentality, me me me

[malibukid]

On 6/27/2019 at 10:15 AM, jko said:

Let's hope that Dennis Gray’s daunting message not only reaches the ears those in power, but also those of prospective leisure travellers, investors, medical tourists, incentive and exhibition planners and retirees who, as a result, remove Chiang Mai from their planning.

That may sound defeatist, but it is now clear that only a steady, slow collapse of the economy is likely to bring the authorities to their senses. Multiple business failures, empty hotels and an exodus of students from our international schools may be the bitterest, but the only medicine.

The plain truth is that until the powers - finally - learn this hard lesson, nothing is going to happen. We are now only six or seven months away from the Deadly Burning, and since we have heard nothing from government, we can reasonably assume it will happen again.

Meanwhile, many (or most) of us are looking at ways to relocate completely, or at least abandon the city (and Lanna in general) from Feb-Jun 2020. I am certainly in this category. Climate change may make things worse as temperatures rise, and the quality of life steadily declines.

The future does not look rosy for the Rose.

for the local government to declare CM to be a disaster area would lose major face.  think of Chernobyl

[Jeffkp]

The Juristic person for my condo just informed me that the Astra has started construction of a new 17 story condo across the street from their current building. It will have 500 units.

Traffic hell is here.

[legend49]

Speed cameras are coming... FANTASTIC!

 

There are three lanes on ring road 2 near San Sai with the overhead indicators to speed cameras. Lots of signs warning dont exceed 90KPH. The odd thing I have noticed in both directions of the overhead speed readings is that all 3 speed reading electronic signs read exactly the same speed? Yesterday. a truck in the fast lane was doing 79KPH. I was losing ground on my motorbike and doing 79 KPH and the poor cyclist in the left lane was falling back also doing 79 KPH. Amazing Thailand.

[rumak]

2 hours ago, Antonymous said:

Thirty years ago although Chiang Mai City had some appeal, what I really fell in love with was the surrounding beautiful countryside and the pretty villages, which is where my work took me much of the time.

 

I lived close to the City for many years, but have moved house six times, each time ‘further out’ to escape creeping construction that sprang up all around and trying to find more peace and seclusion. Like you Rumak, I have now settled a good hour’s drive outside Chiang Mai in what I regard to be a blissful country location that has everything I ever loved about Chiang Mai on my doorstep, including being surrounded by happy and resourceful Thai people. To me this is and always has been the ‘real’ Thailand. I rarely go into the City any longer and don’t miss it at all.

 

Chiang Mai as a province and not just the City, still has so much to offer – a lot more than 30 years ago in fact - if you know where to settle.

well said !  I can't ride my motorcycle all over the North like I once did.... but my daily bike rides are a great reminder of the beauty and peacefulness which still exist .

[mpyre]

6 hours ago, rumak said:

to be fair,  any small city that was really nice 30 years ago has gone through the same "progress".

Austin,Tx..... San Diego.... SF........ Seattle...... and I'm sure countless others that I am not as familiar with.  They may not have air pollution, but traffic, mass growth/loss of charm are inevitable.  

Sigh.   With the powers that be constantly promoting more population, more consumerism, more technology,  well...it is what it is.

Currently I am looking for the crappiest place on the planet as maybe then I won't be disappointed when progress arrives .  ( tongue in cheek )

Human beings are essentially termites when it comes to the home we call Planet Earth...they multiply and destroy everything in their path. Fortunately this situation is self-correcting as far as the Earth is concerned...it's called extinction. 

[stephenterry]

Being a newcomer to CM of four settled years, the annual smog is the worst effect for my continuing health. If only the local government would actually do something to prevent it happening would be progress. I hardly ever go into town nowadays for entertainment, as I prefer staying in a quiet place, which to be fair, is always available in the province.  

 

I suppose it's all to do with personal preferences and style of living that suits one's age group.

[jak2002003]

22 minutes ago, mpyre said:

Human beings are essentially termites when it comes to the home we call Planet Earth...they multiply and destroy everything in their path. Fortunately this situation is self-correcting as far as the Earth is concerned...it's called extinction. 

That's a bit mean to termites.  They are part of nature and do the job of recycling dead wood, they also are food for other animals.

 

Humans, on the other hand don't give anything back to the 'cycle of life' and we are more like a virus which will destroy everything. 

 

I think we might have a massive population crash in the future, but not go extinct.  Sadly, we will drag a lot of other species do real extinction.. never to return, by humanities greed.

 

I live in CM, and around my area was beautiful rice fields, old tall trees, lakes and lots of wildlife.  Now much of it is a concrete jungle, messy, eyesore.  The fields are mostly all filled in and built on, same as the lakes and ponds.  The big trees chopped down in the process, and the ones left are just cut down for money for the wood.  There is also a massive problem with dumping rubbish all around the remaining countryside and even in the forests on the mountains, as well as illegal quarries and the usual burning and killing / eating the wildlife that is left. 

 

This place needs to get some building regulations, and regulations for preserving the countryside too, otherwise in the future it will all be gone... ugly houses and congested roads right up to the mountains (then they will start building on them). 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎6‎/‎27‎/‎2019 at 3:15 PM, jko said:

The future does not look rosy for the Rose.

C M is many things but I'd never have called it a rose.

The thing that kills it and has always killed it since at least 1974 when I first visited is the car. Unrestricted numbers of cars on roads built decades ago is madness. If they want to save the old city they need to ban all private cars from within the wall and have electric tuk tuks, mini buses and bicycles as the only transport.