Retirement Visa Changes & Rate of Exchange leaves many expats in a quandary

[Joe Mcseismic]

8 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

So because you paid more, you imagine that mine isn't of a good quality. ????

LIDL discounts selected products on weekends.

First on the list is 500ml of Greek Extra Virgin olive oil. 77 baht

Second is Italian. Same 77 baht.

Not the cheaper ubiquitous Spanish olive oil you will find everywhere in Thailand or fake olive oil imported via the USA.

 

I don't think you can favourably compare the quality of the grapes you buy in Thailand with the grapes you buy in Europe. When was the last time you saw a Muscat variety in Thailand?

 

Salt your own crisps, 25 baht for 6 packs

 

Antipasti 120 grs of Proscuitto Crudo, Coppa and Milano salami. The cost in Thailand is 420 baht. I paid 40 baht.

 

200 gr of Smoked Salmon. 147 baht

 

200 grs of mixed unsalted nuts 50 baht

 

Stone baked sourdough roll with olives 11 baht

 

I'm sure that my diet is more healthy than yours and likely my weight. Did 50 km of hill training on my bike this morning.

I don't need to eat out often, as the foodstuffs available in the shops here far surpasses the quality of food in Thailand.

Do you love the chlorinated smell of the chicken there?

Even when I do eat out, I choose carefully. 

I haven't stepped into a Greggs since I was at school.

 

In conclusion, I'm happy spending my summers in the UK and my winters in Thailand. But only because of the weather. My quality of life is relatively good in both places.

It's not just about what is the cheapest.

You are treated much as a second class citizen in Thailand. You cannot own land and can be blocked almost arbitrarily.

 

So no, I'm not burning my bridges or slagging off the U.K from afar. For all of it's fault, it is ours. 

That's now. Just wait until the UK crashes out of the EU and has to go back to WTO tariffs. You will have to add a minimum of 10% to your bill. If Sterling loses more value against the Euro, which it will, add 15% to 20% on to your bill.

[Pilotman]

1 hour ago, soalbundy said:

corruption is illegal in Thailand ??

ha ha good one.  It's institutionalised here. 

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, Jumbo1968 said:

If you come to come too Pattaya just have walk round the Agents Offices they will tell you.

 

3 hours ago, bandito said:

Not for Baht 12500!

For that amount the "agent" is stamping your passport with a fake visa.

The rate is Baht 20000 + 5000 for the agent= Baht 25000- for the real thing.

It depends on what area.  Valid extensions in Soi Bukow Pattaya run about 14.5K, last I checked (late last year), with 300 Baht/ea for 90-day reporting.   Bangkok is reported higher, but an agent for Bangkok was sending out "half-price" offers by email, which were similarly priced to Pattaya.

 

17 hours ago, The Cobra said:

Manipulating the regs, yes, taking advantage of a situation, yes, illegal ? cant see it. 

Immigration do not care what is legal or illegal, so it is not relevant.  From their perspective, the "rules" and laws are just tools to use for manipulation - not something like we imagine from a Western perspective. 

 

See the denials of entry at the airports, where the stamp given is inapplicable to the foreigner, and unrelated to anything immigration told them as to the real-reason they were supposedly being denied-entry.

 

Quote

The only possible recourse would be against the issuing officer, not the recipient, and that aint gonna happen, he may get moved to open seat, but another would soon takeover, its too big a money generator to ever get stopped. imho.

That's not how things work here.  If there were an issue, they would throw the Farang under the bus, and the Thai would get off.  The only way a Thai would get in trouble, is if he were paying an IO who wasn't sharing money up the corruption-pyramid.  That has been reported a couple of times.

 

The "extra payment" pyramid is the primary function of immigration.  It's a racket operating under the cover of a legit govt agency.  Once one realizes this, it's no longer confusing "why they do these things to us."

 

Do be aware, however, we have some reports of immigration trying to go back and "re-qualify" previous years extensions, as part of qualifying for the current-year's extension.  Therefore, going down the agent-route could be a One Way Street.  So, if using income, and have one problem money-xfer, then use an agent that year, and you may have to use an agent forever, going forward.

 

16 hours ago, connda said:

They game the system on behalf of their clients.

Immigration response by punishing those who play by the rules.

They "game the system" on behalf of their partners at immigration, who make life difficult for many who play "by the rules," because honest in-person applications don't enrich them.   

 

Note the changes made on money in the bank were "seasoning" rule changes - which don't affect agents.  That's not an oversight - it is very much by-design, to force more honest-applicants into the agent-queue.  Getting the embassy-letters gone for USA and Brit were similarly motivated - were cutting into their under-the-table money.

 

If they "really cared" people met the money-qualifications, agents would never be allowed in the building.

 

17 hours ago, jacko45k said:

The agent option, if available in your area, will cover you.

If it's not available, that means you need to take a Thai with, who understands how things work, and can arrange payment directly.  That is what I will be doing, if I have to get a marriage-extension in Issan, given no agents here, and an in-person/honest application at my office requires my qualifying-income Only be a "State Pension," with evidence thereof (absent an envelope of cash).  

Edited July 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[JackThompson]

17 hours ago, bkk6060 said:

You mean the expat lunacy for lack of planning, not keeping up with the rules, "poor me" lack of proper funds and constantly complaining.

I agree.

Planning for what immigration will change in the future w/o even 1-year's notice?  If you don't have compassion for those caught up in this, I pity you more than even them.

 

16 hours ago, Pilotman said:

yep. These people come here with peanuts in their pockets, no real income and expect to live problem free. I call that fairly delusional. 

In many cases, they came with enough money / income to meet the rules in-place when they arrived. 

 

Their mistake, was thinking Thai immigration was an honest outfit.  That is, indeed, delusional - though one might understandably not expect it, if coming from a 1st World country, where such practices are not the norm.

 

 

Edited July 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[Pilotman]

28 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

Planning for what immigration will change in the future w/o even 1-year's notice?  If you don't have compassion for those caught up in this, I pity you more than even them.

 

 

 

In many cases, they came with enough money / income to meet the rules in-place when they arrived. 

 

Their mistake, was thinking Thai immigration was an honest outfit.  That is, indeed, delusional - though one might understandably not expect it, if coming from a 1st World country, where such practices are not the norm.

 

 

To answer your question, I have a good deal of sympathy with those who have been in LOS for many years, have family ties here, but are low income and have therefore been caught out by the new requirements, albeit that they are mainly procedural rather than substantive.  Those I have little sympathy for, are the many who seem to come here unprepared and under financed and then moan about the requirements, or try to get around them by supporting the corrupt nature of the processes.  All they do is screw it up for expats who abide by the rules. 

[essox essox]

19 hours ago, mrmicbkktxl said:

The agent does what exactly for 12500 Thb?

gets one a thai retirement visa.....such a stupid question....!!!

[Olmate]

8 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

To answer your question, I have a good deal of sympathy with those who have been in LOS for many years, have family ties here, but are low income and have therefore been caught out by the new requirements, albeit that they are mainly procedural rather than substantive.  Those I have little sympathy for, are the many who seem to come here unprepared and under financed and then moan about the requirements, or try to get around them by supporting the corrupt nature of the processes.  All they do is screw it up for expats who abide by the rules. 

Agree moaning won’t help, but people will do what it takes to survive, to getby, bypass or sidestep.Its mans nature to do so. What other options are there when in a situation when moving or returning home are not possible.Their actions do not screw it for others at all, please tell us why you think that.

[JackThompson]

18 hours ago, CharlieH said:

A Positive mental attitude, not a whining moaning "this isnt right" or a paranoid stance convinced everyone is ripping you off or trying to manipulate you.

Thai Immigration, in many cases, is ripping us off and trying to manipulate us into lining their pockets.  That's not paranoid; it's clear from their policy - how they treat agents and agent-applications, vs "the rest of us." 

 

That said, I agree change at Immigration is unlikely, so we must be prepared to wallow in the corruption slime with them, unless well-off enough to meet the shrinking set of methods by which an in-person application is still accepted.  Our only chance of change, would be getting many "Tragic Results of Immigration Corruption in Thailand" stories happening in Western press. 

 

The marriage / Thai-child cases -  where immigration breaks up families by literally making-up non-published rules (in order to try to get their "extra" money) are the most compelling.  Many readers would be surprised to learn that one must go through this attempted family-separation (or payoff) rigamarole annually, forever.  Entire extended Thai families are often supported by these "farangs" being targeted, so immigration clearly doesn't care about their welfare - just jealous they aren't in on the money.

 

Those retired here for a long time and suddenly uprooted by the income-rules changing are also good cases, given readers will tend to identify with the suffering of their own elderly nationals at the hands of corrupt foreigners - changing the rules as a form of extortion.

Edited July 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[Pilotman]

17 minutes ago, Olmate said:

Agree moaning won’t help, but people will do what it takes to survive, to getby, bypass or sidestep.Its mans nature to do so. What other options are there when in a situation when moving or returning home are not possible.Their actions do not screw it for others at all, please tell us why you think that.

Because the authorities know what goes on.  They don't want people here who do not make a reasonable contribution to the Thai economy, Many are considered just hangers on, so the authorities make sure that the people living here as expats have the financial resources to make that contribution,  hence the changes.  In addition, they know about mobile internet workers who's activities don't add to the sum of Thainess, don't pay tax and are here for other reasons than family connections. Even then, family connections are not a primary reason for letting low income expats stay here.  They know that if the expat goes home, he/she will still send money to help the family, so location is not that important. Because the authorities know this, they will continue to increase the financial and other requirements for expats to stay. This is no different to many countries in the world who discourage expats with punitive financial retirements.  Monaco is an extreme example of this kind of policy.  

Edited July 7, 2019 by Pilotman

[JackThompson]

13 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

Because the authorities know what goes on.  They don't want people here who do not make a reasonable contribution to the Thai economy, Many are considered just hangers on, so the authorities make sure that the people living here as expats have the financial resources to make that contribution,  hence the changes. 

The only "contribution" immigration cares about is the one lining their pockets.  Even those spending less foreign-money into Thailand are helping Thais / net-contributors.

 

Quote

In addition, they know about mobile internet workers who's activities don't add to the sum of Thainess, don't pay tax and are here for other reasons than family connections.

Most Thais don't pay income-tax, nor do expat-retirees (unless they have investments here).  All of us pay VAT taxes, and spend money at businesses who pay tax.  They are here to spend the money they make outside of Thailand - same are retired-expats do.

 

That said, a "pay income-taxes on your foreign-income and get a visa," offer would be great for remote-workers and Thailand.

 

Quote

Even then, family connections are not a primary reason for letting low income expats stay here.  They know that if the expat goes home, he/she will still send money to help the family, so location is not that important.

Many don't, because they can't.  Most men won't pay for a woman they can't touch - not for long , anyway - even if they have the wherewithal to pay for 2 households, which many do not.  Immigration only care "what's in it for me," not a bit about Thailand or the Thai families affected by their often-arbitrary decisions based on no published rule.  Those are in addition to the "exchange rate changed, so only 39K baht one month" disqualifications.

 

Quote

Because the authorities know this, they will continue to increase the financial and other requirements for expats to stay. This is no different to many countries in the world who discourage expats with punitive financial retirements.  Monaco is an extreme example of this kind of policy.  

They increase the financials, to push a higher percentage of applicants to their agent-partners.  If they cared about the financials on principle, agent-applications would never be accepted. 

 

But, of course, there is no "principle" to base any of this on in the first place.  There is no "welfare" for foreigners we can take, condos are empty, restaurants are empty, and Thais need jobs (even more so, as Immigration hands out more L-Visas for cheap foreign nationals).  We spend money that fills condos, restaurants, and creates jobs. 

Edited July 7, 2019 by JackThompson

[poohy]

Remember money goes up to bosses so its never going to go away

Actual cost works out between 25/50 THB a day for a visa seems a good deal to me and no fannying around trying to work out rule changes, money held in limbo in Bank etc 

[poohy]

13 hours ago, fredob43 said:

Come on then how much did your last meal out cost. I got Fish and chips T/A one night 3 small cod and 2 chips. Cost was just under 25 pound.

A curry another night did get some change out of 60 pound with 1/2 a beer and a fizzy drink for 2 peeps, must say it was nice though.

wouldn't like to live where you do in UK then......... my last visit 6 weeks ago 

Cod n chips large portion 4.25 

Indian Bangladeshi 3 course curry about 9 quid

1 kilo cheese from Lidl 3.50

Pint of good Beer in happy hour 2.50

wine  look in supermarket  need i say more

Also re supermarkets I could go but for good quality food in IMHO UK is now cheaper than Thailand 

[bkk6060]

My experience is these 12,000 b claims for an extension which include "everything" are false.  The people I know who use them claim the rates have gone up recently and are being quoted in the 20's in Pattaya and 30's in Bangkok.

Of course, the low ball claimers can say what they want as they will never post the name, locations, and contacts of alleged agencies.

[wilailuk]

1 hour ago, JackThompson said:

Thai Immigration, in many cases, is ripping us off and trying to manipulate us into lining their pockets.  That's not paranoid; it's clear from their policy - how they treat agents and agent-applications, vs "the rest of us." 

 

That said, I agree change at Immigration is unlikely, so we must be prepared to wallow in the corruption slime with them, unless well-off enough to meet the shrinking set of methods by which an in-person application is still accepted.  Our only chance of change, would be getting many "Tragic Results of Immigration Corruption in Thailand" stories happening in Western press. 

 

The marriage / Thai-child cases -  where immigration breaks up families by literally making-up non-published rules (in order to try to get their "extra" money) are the most compelling.  Many readers would be surprised to learn that one must go through this attempted family-separation (or payoff) rigamarole annually, forever.  Entire extended Thai families are often supported by these "farangs" being targeted, so immigration clearly doesn't care about their welfare - just jealous they aren't in on the money.

 

Those retired here for a long time and suddenly uprooted by the income-rules changing are also good cases, given readers will tend to identify with the suffering of their own elderly nationals at the hands of corrupt foreigners - changing the rules as a form of extortion.

You´re delusional... you think folks back home care about old farts buying young girls for sex out on the beach in sunny Thailand?

 

Get real, man...

 

 

[RichardColeman]

6 hours ago, bandito said:

Not for Baht 12500!

For that amount the "agent" is stamping your passport with a fake visa.

The rate is Baht 20000 + 5000 for the agent= Baht 25000- for the real thing.

nonsense. If it is, then it works perfectly well with thai immigration 90 days reporting and multiple entry airport staff

[poohy]

25 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

On your way then. I for one wont miss the whine.

Not whining sunshine!

just forward planning summers in UK winter here, or certainly a larger proportion of time in UK

Also why do you consider its a whine when you are pointing out things are better quality elsewhere...oh and back in NHS system

makes sense unless you are one of them Thaier than Thai foreigners!

Edited July 7, 2019 by poohy

[lamyai3]

5 hours ago, fredob43 said:

When was the last time you had a pint of Ruddles in the UK??? I'll tell you something you aren't going to get one for 2.10p anymore. Well not in London. Try 5/6 pounds plus plus plus. 

I was back there two months ago, Ruddles is £1.89 a pint in most of the Wetherspoons pubs outside London. And well under £3 in their West End locations. 

[phuketrichard]

1 hour ago, bkk6060 said:

My experience is these 12,000 b claims for an extension which include "everything" are false.  The people I know who use them claim the rates have gone up recently and are being quoted in the 20's in Pattaya and 30's in Bangkok.

Of course, the low ball claimers can say what they want as they will never post the name, locations, and contacts of alleged agencies.

oh really:  friend of mine did this an this is what he paid: good thru end of july
 

This is Grace from Thai Visa Centre again.

I am happy to let you know that our price for 1 Year Retirement Visa's is now only à ¸¿14,000 (50% discount)!

We help sponsor your financial requirements, and only require passport, and two photos.

If you have any visa needs please contact us ASAP.

Have a wonderful day.

 

[poohy]

3 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

If it sounds like a duck, quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.

I do enjoy the sunshine. The sun is now shinning, a slight breeze and 85 F. Perfect!

I don't eat most falong food because it has no taste. But I like it hot and spicy.

I am pleased you are a hot and spicy duck enjoying the warm weather.

And with that i will return to the comfort of my glass of wine ,cheese sandwich, black pudding and pickled onions.

[yodsak]

Just checked with my friend who renewed last week at Cambodia Inter soi boo-cow .

They now charge 13,900 for renewal of retirement visa. Up 1000.

 

Ticktok services are still the same at 15,000

Key visa 15,000. 

Khao Talo visa service , iv'e heard 15,000. not verified.  

 

 

All genuine stamps issued by thailands finest IO's.  Must attend for photo shoot. 

Why pay more?

 

[fredob43]

5 hours ago, jacko45k said:

September 2018, a lot of them. Not everybody lives in London you know, did I mention London? Did you?

John Smiths is usually cheaper still! You need to get out more.

You were talking about the price of a Latte in the UK for some unknown reason, and I suggested an alternative. I actually think costs in UK for food and drink are pretty cheap. (Although I am from the depressed north).

 

What on Earth has my living in Pattaya got to do with it? I chose the most fun place in the country !

Please let me explain. I used Latte because many peeps wouldn't know what I was talking about if I had used for example Hobgoblin Bitter.

 

I was in Peterborough services and they don't sell the hard stuff there. So its coffee or nothing.

 

Maybe you should get out more lets say London I think it would shock you price wise. Cant compare with the depressed north.

 

Regards Pattaya the most dirty/polluted/expensive city in Thailand allegedly. That seems to attract a certain type that thinks it's great. If it's good for you so be it, but sorry to say it's not for me. And yes I have lived there and for 7 years. In the end it drove me out. Couldn't put up with the food poisoning I got ever couple of weeks. 

[roobaa01]

my question to @ubonjoe and the community ......... pension thb 40 k monthly and want to use the combi method how much  to i need to keep in the bank 2 months prior to application, 90 days thereafter and for the remaining 7 months

 

wbr

roobaa01

[ubonjoe]

1 minute ago, roobaa01 said:

my question to @ubonjoe and the community ......... pension thb 40 k monthly and want to use the combi method how much  to i need to keep in the bank 2 months prior to application, 90 days thereafter and for the remaining 7 months

You would need at least 320k baht in the bank for 2 months on the date you apply to combine with your annual income of 480k baht to reach a total of 800k baht.

You would have to keep the 320k baht in the bank for 3 months after you apply. The mount after that is not mentioned in the police order but some offices are saying half of it has to remain in the bank.

[PAIPEN]

What is the idea keeping 800K in bank if you can't use it. 

[fredob43]

2 hours ago, poohy said:

wouldn't like to live where you do in UK then......... my last visit 6 weeks ago 

Cod n chips large portion 4.25 

Indian Bangladeshi 3 course curry about 9 quid

1 kilo cheese from Lidl 3.50

Pint of good Beer in happy hour 2.50

wine  look in supermarket  need i say more

Also re supermarkets I could go but for good quality food in IMHO UK is now cheaper than Thailand 

I don't live in the UK I only stayed there for 18 days. Had to sort out some banking put one of my houses on the market and visit family.

Right where was I well Nazeing just outside the M25. Curry restaurant was in Great Dunmow near Stansted airport. And that's what I had to pay.

 

I have already said that Western food is cheaper there as it should be. But by the time you have added the nearly 500 pounds a month utility bills (I can list them if required) it does work out a "Tad" more expensive. 2.1/2 months of those pays mine in Thailand for 1 year.

[seasia]

7 hours ago, JamJar said:

 

So because you paid more, you imagine that mine isn't of a good quality. ????

LIDL discounts selected products on weekends.

First on the list is 500ml of Greek Extra Virgin olive oil. 77 baht

Second is Italian. Same 77 baht.

Not the cheaper ubiquitous Spanish olive oil you will find everywhere in Thailand or fake olive oil imported via the USA.

 

I don't think you can favourably compare the quality of the grapes you buy in Thailand with the grapes you buy in Europe. When was the last time you saw a Muscat variety in Thailand?

 

Salt your own crisps, 25 baht for 6 packs

 

Antipasti 120 grs of Proscuitto Crudo, Coppa and Milano salami. The cost in Thailand is 420 baht. I paid 40 baht.

 

200 gr of Smoked Salmon. 147 baht

 

200 grs of mixed unsalted nuts 50 baht

 

Stone baked sourdough roll with olives 11 baht

 

I'm sure that my diet is more healthy than yours and likely my weight. Did 50 km of hill training on my bike this morning.

I don't need to eat out often, as the foodstuffs available in the shops here far surpasses the quality of food in Thailand.

Do you love the chlorinated smell of the chicken there?

Even when I do eat out, I choose carefully. 

I haven't stepped into a Greggs since I was at school.

 

In conclusion, I'm happy spending my summers in the UK and my winters in Thailand. But only because of the weather. My quality of life is relatively good in both places.

It's not just about what is the cheapest.

You are treated much as a second class citizen in Thailand. You cannot own land and can be blocked almost arbitrarily.

 

So no, I'm not burning my bridges or slagging off the U.K from afar. For all of it's fault, it is ours. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi JamJar

 

I like your shopping list, especially the antipasti. Yes you are right, many food items in the UK are of higher quality and cheaper than Thailand.

Good price on the EV Olive oil.

 

I am currently in Italy and the price of it here is only fractionally cheaper, so the hard discounters in the UK are using their bulk buying power to obtain good prices then working on tight margin.

1 litre EV  Olive Oil is roughly around the 4 Euro mark ( 140 baht ), sometimes a bit more sometimes a bit less.

Pasta is incredibly cheap. 1 kg on promo is 61 Euro cents, about 21 baht.

That is at a hypermarket though with heavy discounting.

Usual price more like 50/60 cents for 500gm.

 

You seem to have found a good balance, spend some of your time in the UK, some of your time in Thailand.

 

All the Best

[fredob43]

3 minutes ago, FredGallaher said:

It doesn't make much sense to eat a lot of western food in Thailand. Imported food is really expensive and not too good. OK if you buy local stuff and cook yourself OK. But, there is a lot of really good Thai food to eat. Hygiene is generally good except places like Pattaya but they're cooking mostly for falong tourists. Go to places you see regular Thais ( business people etc) eating.  

Agree with you. If I want western food I do cook it myself. As luck would have it we do have some western food restaurants where I live, and they are not that expensive and quite good. One only sells western food you cant even get rice. But dinning out we normally go Thai. Have a Thai wife and she wont eat anything like potato's. And no I'm not looking for a new one.

[fredob43]

To the OP sorry for nicking your post. But whatever you do do it quick as I can see the BHT hitting the 35 = 1 pound mark if we leave the EU with a hard Brexit. Might go even less.

[lkv]

4 hours ago, JackThompson said:

That said, a "pay income-taxes on your foreign-income and get a visa," offer would be great for remote-workers and Thailand.

Not a viable proposition for them, nor for the Thais.

 

Nobody likes to pay more tax than they should, so everybody will minimize it.

 

If I have a foreign income of 1 million, you reckon I will tell them that? It will be declared as the absolute minimum required by law. They are better off asking for lump sums, which they are (Elite).

 

Same logic like with IGLU and their visa/work permit, if you run a minimum of USD 2,500 through them , where they want 30%. -I hope I recall the numbers right- (Which by the way I already consider an expensive proposition as it is).

 

Who in the right frame of mind would go to IGLU and say...."Hey, actually i make 20K a month, and I want to run it through you guys, so that I lose 30% of it".

 

Tax is a muddy thing, it can be dragged down, legally with loopholes or less legally with hiding assets so nobody finds them. They already know that, they are doing it themselves.

Edited July 7, 2019 by lkv

[jacko45k]

2 hours ago, fredob43 said:

 

Maybe you should get out more lets say London I think it would shock you price wise. Cant compare with the depressed north.

Hell no, too scared of getting mugged or stabbed. London just isn't English anymore.

Night out in Pattaya soon, whoopee....