Democrats condemn Trump, white nationalism after two mass shootings

[lannarebirth]

1 minute ago, Berkshire said:

Except that his "fear" is imaginary.  These hate groups prey on people who are disenfranchised, powerless, and lonely.  Crusius (the shooter) wasn't exactly a model citizen.  He was rather aimless and lazy, the perfect recruit for these hate groups who give these wayward individuals someone else to blame for their lot in life.

 

"While he worked as a bagger in a local supermarket, “working in general sucks,” he wrote in the profile, adding that he is “not really motivated to do anything more than what’s necessary to get by.”

 

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/breakingnews/suspect-in-el-paso-massacre-didnt-hold-anything-back-in-police-interrogation/ar-AAFkDxU?ocid=wispr

 

I agree with most of that except your first sentence.

[Chomper Higgot]

29 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Excellent post.

Automation has already eliminated millions of jobs, and will eliminate millions more in the near future, yet no one in governments around the world are putting any energy into it, preferring to concentrate on climate change, and using the fear of it to make political capital.

Rather than try to take this topic off course, let’s park that until the subject comes up.

[newnative]

36 minutes ago, Hogs said:

100 MILLION legal LAW ABIDING registered gun owners who have done nothing illegal should not be punished because of the odd nutcase.

Otherwise your argument is that we must treat law abiding Muslims the same and blame the whole of the Muslim population for the odd nutcase that blows people up.

Surely all you Liberals here are not suggesting we do that 

are you ???

   No one is taking away your 'gun'.  That will never happen in America.   But, do you need a high-capacity assault rifle?  Do you need high-capacity magazines?  Do you need bullets that will pierce police protective vests?  Do you need to own 20 guns when you only have 2 hands?  Most gun control advocates are only looking for a little sanity with the gun laws--and having a difficult time just with that.  

[bristolboy]

56 minutes ago, Thaifriends said:

Many people dont want or does not know history. First amendment is to protect citizens. If you disarm citizens, then arm gangsters, thug police and all enforcenent agencies who may all turn against or supress you then "what would you do"? Give them flowers?

I agree that the first amendment is to protect citizens. It's all about freedom of speech. As for the second amendment, not so much. It clearly states that the second amendment is all about a well-regulated militia. This amendment was composed before the US had a standing army.

[Chomper Higgot]

1 hour ago, Thaifriends said:

Many people dont want or does not know history. First amendment is to protect citizens. If you disarm citizens, then arm gangsters, thug police and all enforcenent agencies who may all turn against or supress you then "what would you do"? Give them flowers?

You need to go back and re-read the first amendment.

[bristolboy]

3 hours ago, metisdead said:

The gunman's manifesto also said politicians of both parties were to blame:

 

 

 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/08/03/us/patrick-crusius-el-paso-shooter-manifesto.html

Grasping at straws much? What in his rhetoric echoes what democrats have been saying? He also said “the heavy Hispanic population in Texas will make us a Democrat stronghold.”

You think he was celebrating that fact?

[Chomper Higgot]

2 hours ago, lannarebirth said:

The Washington Post says the shooter was aware that automation was eliminating jobs already, and he saw immigrants as competition for the scarce jobs that will be left. So what you've really got is somone who's afraid, and fear is a much more powerful emotion in my mind than is "hate". Fear makes you grab at straws. Leaves you easy pickin's for groups and ideologies which foster hate and pick scapegoats.

 

If only someone was talking about the fear that stems from a society based upon scarcity rather than abundance. About automation and the distortions, displacements and disaffectedness it will is bringing about. If only someone were offering solutions that put humanity first and that bridges the chasm that this 4th Industrial revolution is causing.

 

 

Refer episode 5 on the audio blog ‘Your ndevided attention’ for an insight into online fear stoking.

[Baerboxer]

4 hours ago, Enoon said:

 

"Hate has no place in our country, and we're going to take care of it."

 

Says the man who rode to power on the politics of hate, resentment and spite.

 

Better pedal back on the "no hate" message Donald.........it'll lose you votes.

 

 

 

No he didn't. He rode to power because a great many people are totally fed up with having political correctness rammed down there throats. By having politicians who blame everything on convenient scapegoats - white supremacists, racism, right wing politics etc whilst pandering to illegal immigrants and criminals who play the race card - poor disadvantage me, I was only rioting and looting because of what happened 200 years ago!

 

I abhor racism. I abhor homophobia and religious persecution. I abhor injustice.

 

I really abhor slimy politically correct politicians who try and make politician propaganda gain from such tragic events by blaming their rivals rather than admitting neither of them has addressed the root courses. Mass shooting happened under Obama's regime too.

 

America has some deep social issues, very fundamental ones. Until they're addressed things like this will keep happening.

 

Very often the same lot calling for a ban on guns are the same lot who want drug liberalization. Go figure.

[TallGuyJohninBKK]

1 hour ago, Hogs said:

100 MILLION legal LAW ABIDING registered gun owners who have done nothing illegal should not be punished because of the odd nutcase.

Otherwise your argument is that we must treat law abiding Muslims the same and blame the whole of the Muslim population for the odd nutcase that blows people up.

Surely all you Liberals here are not suggesting we do that 

are you ???

 

A start would be outlawing (not just preventing new sales of) automatic weapons, assault rifles and such...

 

No law abiding American needs to have those kinds of weapons for hunting, personal protection or any other legitimate reason.

 

However, it's in large part all the "law abiding" gun owners you're talking about, and the politicians they support, that have allowed these kinds of mass shootings to occur by opposing at every step of the way any reasonable version of gun controls.

 

In a different America, if these would-be mass killers only could get a knife or a regular handgun, they simply could not inflict the kind of mass deaths and casualties in very brief periods of time that are occurring here.

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by TallGuyJohninBKK

[DoktorC]

3 hours ago, daoyai said:

In sick desperation the democrat candidates and mainstream media attempt tp turn this into a political issue. The democratic core voters are smarter than that, the fringe radicals further alienate their core. Corey Booker is disgusting with his statements.  

Sorry to bust your cherry, but it is a political issue.  Too many people in the USA die from gun violence (yes guns are used to kill people).  But the general narrative that it is a "mental health" issue is the false narrative used by obfuscate the problem that easy access to firearms makes these violent episodes more and more frequent.  The solution to this problem is most definitely a political one.  But republicans and trump supporters are blind to that and have no solution (except more guns).   

[Chomper Higgot]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No he didn't. He rode to power because a great many people are totally fed up with having political correctness rammed down there throats. By having politicians who blame everything on convenient scapegoats - white supremacists, racism, right wing politics etc whilst pandering to illegal immigrants and criminals who play the race card - poor disadvantage me, I was only rioting and looting because of what happened 200 years ago!

 

I abhor racism. I abhor homophobia and religious persecution. I abhor injustice.

 

I really abhor slimy politically correct politicians who try and make politician propaganda gain from such tragic events by blaming their rivals rather than admitting neither of them has addressed the root courses. Mass shooting happened under Obama's regime too.

 

America has some deep social issues, very fundamental ones. Until they're addressed things like this will keep happening.

 

Very often the same lot calling for a ban on guns are the same lot who want drug liberalization. Go figure.

Start abhorring by accepting this killer is a white supremicist and parroting right wing views as excuses for his actions.

 

Mass shootings did happen under Obama, but Obama never stoked hatred of immigrants.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

36 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

It did, and it also spewed line after line of hate that is in complete alignment with Trump’s platform of race baiting.

 

When the President panders to white supremacists, vilifies immigrants and employs race baiting to cement his base, his words have consequences.

 

Lets not forget his response to the murder at Charlottesville, he’s a man who sees good people on both sides, when one side are neo-nazis.

 

 

Classic.

 

Nazis, and therefore neo Nazis are extreme left. Are you suggesting only the right wing of politics, which in its extremes includes fascists are good people?

 

Although Trump may be obnoxious, unpredictable, changeable and somewhat rude, he does say some things which are very factual, especially on the subject of illegal immigrants. Whereas it seems the Democrats want to actually reward illegal immigrants who successfully and criminally enter the US.

[Chomper Higgot]

This is how you promote respect and defuse white supremicist hate:

 

 

[bristolboy]

12 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No he didn't. He rode to power because a great many people are totally fed up with having political correctness rammed down there throats. By having politicians who blame everything on convenient scapegoats - white supremacists, racism, right wing politics etc whilst pandering to illegal immigrants and criminals who play the race card - poor disadvantage me, I was only rioting and looting because of what happened 200 years ago!

 

I abhor racism. I abhor homophobia and religious persecution. I abhor injustice.

 

I really abhor slimy politically correct politicians who try and make politician propaganda gain from such tragic events by blaming their rivals rather than admitting neither of them has addressed the root courses. Mass shooting happened under Obama's regime too.

 

America has some deep social issues, very fundamental ones. Until they're addressed things like this will keep happening.

 

Very often the same lot calling for a ban on guns are the same lot who want drug liberalization. Go figure.

Because hardly any homicides are due to fighting over the control of the super profotable illegal drugs trade? You' ve got it exactly wrong.

[Thaifriends]

41 minutes ago, GalaxyMan said:

You must be on drugs. This is a political issue because it is all being promoted and encouraged by the Dummy in the White House. Trump is the White-Nationalist/Supremacist in Chief, The Racist in Chief, The Liar in Chief, The Serial Assaulter of Women in Chief. His base and the entire GOP are unabashedly complicit. Disgusting situation. Just when you thought nothing could make a Dumbocrap seem like a good alternative, along comes Donny.

Why dont you run for POTUS from you keyboard ????

Also get elected with some Jomtien Russian expat who might be a hacker and rig your computer ????

[Baerboxer]

5 minutes ago, Chomper Higgot said:

Start abhorring by accepting this killer is a white supremicist and parroting right wing views as excuses for his actions.

 

Mass shootings did happen under Obama, but Obama never stoked hatred of immigrants.

 

 

 

No Obama wanted to reward illegal immigrants.

 

Noticeably when referring to Trump you miss the adjective illegal and refer to immigrants. Why not start accepting there is a big difference between legal immigrants and illegal ones who entered as criminals?

 

I wonder just who is feeding all these various assorted nutters and organizations. Surely couldn't be the left, could it? Nah, they'd never do such a thing. Left wingers never believe then end justifies the means do they................ oh wait ........................... read history.

[Baerboxer]

4 minutes ago, bristolboy said:

Because hardly any homicides are due to fighting over the control of the super profotable illegal drugs trade? You' ve got it exactly wrong.

 

What on earth are you on about?

 

Drink some coffee before posting maybe?

[BobBKK]

Using terrible tragedies for political gain should be condemned by all of us. It was not Obama's fault they happened and it is not Trumps either. USA has had this gun culture for decades.

[BangkokBaksida]

"The assailant, identified as Connor Betts, a 24-year-old white man . . ."

 

I can't remember the last time I read an article about a crime committed by a black person in which it was mentioned that the perpetrator was black.  I guess it's only allowed to identify whites by race when they commit crimes.  Identifying black criminals as black is racist.

[Thaifriends]

4 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

No Obama wanted to reward illegal immigrants.

 

Noticeably when referring to Trump you miss the adjective illegal and refer to immigrants. Why not start accepting there is a big difference between legal immigrants and illegal ones who entered as criminals?

 

I wonder just who is feeding all these various assorted nutters and organizations. Surely couldn't be the left, could it? Nah, they'd never do such a thing. Left wingers never believe then end justifies the means do they................ oh wait ........................... read history.

Majority of Asians especially South Asians reach US legally, get legal citizenship, pay taxes, work like dogs. Then one person crosses border illegally and gets right to stay to legalize, BS!

 

Important point is: South Asian legal migrants are mostly educated, speak English as well, compared to the border crossers.

[Krataiboy]

When people have nothing to lose, they lose it. The ease with which guns can be acquired in the US just makes it easier for the unhinged to take their revenge on other members of the precariat.

 

This massacre says more about the increasing gap between the rich and the poor in the "land of the free", and the devastating economic and social consequences, than it does about racism or white nationalism.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Krataiboy

[Thaifriends]

10 minutes ago, BangkokBaksida said:

"The assailant, identified as Connor Betts, a 24-year-old white man . . ."

 

I can't remember the last time I read an article about a crime committed by a black person in which it was mentioned that the perpetrator was black.  I guess it's only allowed to identify whites by race when they commit crimes.  Identifying black criminals as black is racist.

Yes this is going on since Rodney King case. Read newspaper or online US news, most of the crimes are by black people. Mostly want to become victim of discrimination and dont get higher education. Whereas thousand of miles away some South Indian village boy reach US on merit and becomes top executive of a company. 

 

Young blacks have to work harder then others then only can achieve. Hopes should be high!

[Chomper Higgot]

5 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

When people have nothing to lose, they lose it. The ease with which guns can be acquired in the US just makes it easier for the unhinged to take their revenge on other members of the precariat.

 

This massacre says more about the increasing gap between the rich and the poor in the "land of the free", and the devastating economic and social consequences, than it does about racism or white nationalism.

I’d agree immigrants are being scapegoated to hide the other economic realities you identified but when a white supremacist is committing mass murder of people he believes are immigrants it’s hard not to blame racism and white supremacists.

[DoktorC]

15 minutes ago, BangkokBaksida said:

"The assailant, identified as Connor Betts, a 24-year-old white man . . ."

 

I can't remember the last time I read an article about a crime committed by a black person in which it was mentioned that the perpetrator was black.  I guess it's only allowed to identify whites by race when they commit crimes.  Identifying black criminals as black is racist.

https://www.jacksonville.com/news/20190804/jacksonville-shooting-suspect-arrested-in-baker-county-after-chase

 

Maybe because you don't know how to read or just not looking for it.  But now you can check that off your bucket list.

[Nigel Garvie]

20 minutes ago, TallGuyJohninBKK said:

 

A start would be outlawing (not just preventing new sales of) automatic weapons, assault rifles and such...

 

No law abiding American needs to have those kinds of weapons for hunting, personal protection or any other legitimate reason.

 

However, it's in large part all the "law abiding" gun owners you're talking about, and the politicians they support, that have allowed these kinds of mass shootings to occur by opposing at every step of the way any reasonable version of gun controls.

 

In a different America, if these would-be mass killers only could get a knife or a regular handgun, they simply could not inflict the kind of mass deaths and casualties in very brief periods of time that are occurring here.

 

Undeniably correct. We do have killings in the UK, but they are mainly knife killings of individuals. Since Dunblane, there have been no massacres, guns are very hard to get, only the likes of gamekeepers are allowed to have them, and they must be locked up (The guns) when not in use. Automatic weapons no one can get unless they are in the army, or specialized Police units. 

 

Here is a take on it from a UK magazine.

 

A country with strict gun control laws has somehow managed to go another year with no mass shootings.

The achievement, widely agreed to be impossible by self-proclaimed firearm experts on the Internet, is being met with surprise and outright disbelief in the United States.

Experts in Gunology, which includes anyone with an Internet connection and a short temper, insist that the only way to avoid regular massacres is for everyone to be armed and decry anyone who thinks differently as ‘fukcin stupid basterds I shoud waist yer gay ass’, whatever that may mean.

Internet experts often cite studies drawn from the voices in their heads which suggest that people being unarmed increases their chances of being shot by, oooh, a million-billion percenticles or something.

Sadly, they then go on to ignore that people being armed increases their chances of being shot by their own children by a similar amount.

Responding to the news, President Trump took a somber tone.

“My fellow Americans”, he said. “It has long been known that if you take guns off good guys, only bad guys have guns.

“Well, it seems the UK has waaaay fewer bad guys than we do.

“I guess they’re just better people than us, those losers.”

American scientists are stunned by the lack of massacres, and have announced a US$17-billion, ten-year study into how nobody went on a shooting rampage in a place where guns are legal but a bit difficult for lunatics to get. However, the NRA has pledged to lobby against the study being funded, insisting it is entirely unnecessary and a complete waste of time and money.

“There are regular massacres in the UK,” spokesman Simon-Bob Williams told us. “You just don’t get to hear of them because of the New World Order Zionist ZOG Media hiding the truth.”

[Thaifriends]

13 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

When people have nothing to lose, they lose it. The ease with which guns can be acquired in the US just makes it easier for the unhinged to take their revenge on other members of the precariat.

 

This massacre says more about the increasing gap between the rich and the poor in the "land of the free", and the devastating economic and social consequences, than it does about racism or white nationalism.

Most armed nation on the earth are Swiss. Are they mountain Cow Boys?

Problem is not to have weapon for self defence but frustration among youths. Some have higher courage to do bad things and some have less. Both end up in jail. By the way majority of US jails are filled with blacks and Latinos.

Edited August 5, 2019 by Thaifriends

[Berkshire]

14 minutes ago, Krataiboy said:

When people have nothing to lose, they lose it. The ease with which guns can be acquired in the US just makes it easier for the unhinged to take their revenge on other members of the precariat.

 

This massacre says more about the increasing gap between the rich and the poor in the "land of the free", and the devastating economic and social consequences, than it does about racism or white nationalism.

This massacre is almost entirely about racism and white nationalism...as well as easy access to high powered assault rifles.

 

There's already photos of Crusius' home in Allen, Texas and it looks pretty darn opulent.  No, this guy wasn't from some poor family living in a trailor park.  While I agree that inequality in America is a huge problem and getting worse, it has nothing to do with this shooting. 

 

 

 

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/08/04/el-paso-shooting-suspect-neighborhood/1916943001/

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by Berkshire

[Thaidream]

2 hours ago, marcusarelus said:

Does the President make laws?  Do gun laws eliminate mass shootings?  

 

Who makes laws? 

What will eliminate mass shootings when there are 250,000,000 guns in America?

1.   No private citizen should ever be allowed to purchase a weapon of war- such as an AK47 or AR 15 or 16 or anything that has the capability of a war weapon.

 

2.   Anyone that currently has a banned weapon- needs to turn it in to the local sheriff or police- get compensated for it or have the weapon seized.

 

3.  Background checks must be universal- with a 14 day waiting to ensure that an FEB/State/Local check is complete.  No exceptions for gun shows or certain dealers.

 

4.  Full coverage in insurance or government sponsored healthcaer must be mandated at the 100% level  for mental illness with High Schools and universities being especially watchful of troubled youth.

 

Do all of the above and you will see a lessening of these type of incidents.

 

Most of Americans are not against having rifles for hunting or handguns for protection if  properly vetted and licensed. Almost 90% are against any private citizen being allowed access to war weapons/  

[spidermike007]

There is no question that Trump has to accept the blame for part of the motivation in these shootings. Of course long before Trump came along, there were insane white man shooting up crowds. It is part of the American landscape. They are not doubt the most dangerous group in America. Disenchanted, bitter. very angry white men. And Trump is stoking them, encouraging them, and dividing them, even more than before. That is just who he is. He is not a uniter. He is a divider, and that is part of his M.O. and his campaign. 

 

The NRA also has to accept some blame. The nonsense that more guns make America safer, is only that. The easy availability of guns no doubt raises the horrendous death count. 

 

America is great. A great producer of mass murderers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2019 by spidermike007

[ivor bigun]

I am not American,but even i know there were far more mass shootings under"saint" Obhama.

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